2014 United Sports Car Championship

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freshseth83
What is a DP? A car with a single shape, a single tire, and a single package. Do you really like staring at the same car? I prefer diversity and different aero solutions with different engines with different cars run by different types of teams with different manufacturers and different shapes.
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We all know how you feel for LMP1 cars and DP's as well.
I myself don't like any open cockpit LMP designed cars, be it LMP1, LMP2 or LMPC, for whatever reason I don't like the looks. Closed cockpit like Dyson's is OK. DP's are similar in shape to closed cockpit LMP's and OK in my book.
Technologically advanced or not, whatever, matters not to me.
I don't imply you are wrong because our likes differ.

I could care less what the vehicles look like or how fast they can go as long as I can watch a close race with some question as to who will win. Faster does not make a better race, just a more dangerous race.
I also don't mind some argy bargy (sp) if the track is too tight for a legitimate pass. I don't want cars taken out of the race due to someone plowing their way through, just a nudge.
So it's a good thing we differ, otherwise I may not want to watch/attend a lot of the series I do because they are not technologically advanced or as fast as other series.
Maybe if it were a race to the moon I would differ in that opinion but for cars on a track, that's enough for me, but I'm a simple person.
I don't imply you are wrong because our likes differ.

Just because you don't like it (whatever it may be this time) for whatever reason does not give you the right to think others are wrong in what they like.

As I said before, "To each his own.".
You don't like the racing series then you have the choice not to watch (as I and F1).
But if you don't watch, then don't comment on it either.

I watch racing for racing not to worry (in my opinion/yours too) they are doing anything right or wrong with all that entails running a race series (never mind creating a new series). I'm sure there are many reasons (most good, some maybe a compromise) behind every decision, which amount in the thousands.
That's their job not ours.

For any of us to think we know better is just foolish. :dunce:
 
MrMelancholy15
Why does the double poster have to roll right through my puns without even noticing them?
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Your 'hand' joke was weak imo.

MrMelancholy15
You, Seth, mentioned "BMW" and "hand" in the same sentence. :lol: I mentioned Joey Hand as a pun. Calm down, dude. Caaaaalllllmmmm dooooowwwwnn. Yoga time, Mr. "Fresh white like bread." :lol:
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Your jokes still aren't funny. And that laughing you hear? Just you and your imagination. :sly:

MrMelancholy15
DTM: I really love touring cars. DTM isn't touring cars, but, two Canadians in contention for race wins and championships? I love it!

Super GT: what's that? The reason no one's ever heard of it, is because its races aren't broadcast pretty much anywhere. They're the ones who will gain the most when DTM and Super GT join.
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You're wrong, as usual. There's over 120 million people in Japan who have access to the races of SuperGT on J-Sports (cable/ satellite), not to mention the races in Sepang and the exhibition in Korea. No one's heard of it though, Melany said so. :lol:
MrMelancholy15
Daytona Prototurtle: Such a graceful looking race car. I love the way it "dances" through Museum Bend at Barber. I also like that it's a much safer prototype. Seriously, I watch racing to watch racing. I jump up and down when I see a cool pass. I cuss and swear when people crash after a good race. But, I feel gutted when someone is killed. I don't trust open-cockpit cars, they don't seem safe enough. Therefore, I love DP. It seems safe. No one's ever been killed in Grand-Am racing, AFAIK. That's a pretty awesome safety record. It's something like 500 people fewer than have been killed in Le Mans and World Sportscar Challenge (back when the cars from Le Mans, Group C, etc) competition.
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Safety =/= the amount of casualties in said series. FYI, lmp1 is closed top from 2014.

MrMelancholy15
Therefore, yes, I like DP. You can't argue the safety record, Seth, no matter how much you say you don't care about driver's safety.
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Where do you come up with these arguments? No one's been killed in an lmp1 car since their inception. Can't argue that safety record, Melany. Why bring it up? The whole point of comparing DP to DTM/GT500 to LMP2 is the relativel pace of each car. DP wants to be equal to LMP2, well the DTM/GT500 cars are close to and beyond them already. So once they plan on making new cars, they might wanna take a look at the two series' car's their trying to court.
01GTP
We all know how you feel for LMP1 cars and DP's as well.
I myself don't like any open cockpit LMP designed cars, be it LMP1, LMP2 or LMPC, for whatever reason I don't like the looks. Closed cockpit like Dyson's is OK. DP's are similar in shape to closed cockpit LMP's and OK in my book.
Technologically advanced or not, whatever, matters not to me.
I don't imply you are wrong because our likes differ.

I could care less what the vehicles look like or how fast they can go as long as I can watch a close race with some question as to who will win. Faster does not make a better race, just a more dangerous race.
I also don't mind some argy bargy (sp) if the track is too tight for a legitimate pass. I don't want cars taken out of the race due to someone plowing their way through, just a nudge.
So it's a good thing we differ, otherwise I may not want to watch/attend a lot of the series I do because they are not technologically advanced or as fast as other series.
Maybe if it were a race to the moon I would differ in that opinion but for cars on a track, that's enough for me, but I'm a simple person.
I don't imply you are wrong because our likes differ.

Just because you don't like it (whatever it may be this time) for whatever reason does not give you the right to think others are wrong in what they like.

As I said before, "To each his own.".
You don't like the racing series then you have the choice not to watch (as I and F1).
But if you don't watch, then don't comment on it either.

I watch racing for racing not to worry (in my opinion/yours too) they are doing anything right or wrong with all that entails running a race series (never mind creating a new series). I'm sure there are many reasons (most good, some maybe a compromise) behind every decision, which amount in the thousands.
That's their job not ours.
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Cool story 👍 I do watch GA fyi, and I've said it before. I did NOT say people were wrong for liking it. So save the speech, I merely said don't act like DP is high and mighty and there's no alternative to them. That and the lies about how they're 'affordable' or 'relatively cheap' compared to other types of cars. And other fallacies like they provide 'level racing' or they're so 'close together' but Pruett is dogged because he and his team "always win". Spare me, guy. I've got no issue with anyone here. I have issues with these arguments that are falsified on perception rather than real arguments with fact.
 
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Conisdering Ganassi is 6th in driver points right now, I don't see much weight in that argument either. There has been 5 different winners in DP this season. It's pretty close if you ask me compared to the alms LMP1 where all mmpr has to do is finish two more races or win one and they will clinch. Of course, the green X challenge is such a close battle right now :rollseyes: Car count per class is another pro of grand am. There are just as many DP racing the remainder of the races in Rolex as LMP in all 3 classes (7 being a spec prototype) in the alms not to mention grand am has a much easier format to televise. The races are a lot easier to keep up with on tv. I get to see more racing for longer because they're not constantly flipping between 5 classes where the best races are the classes that are spec and don't get much air time. In grand am, we get DP and Gt split 64/35% tv roughly with 1% Gx (which normally is one of the Mazda engines taking a dump) I don't like having 4 classes in the USCR, but I'm willing to keep them for a few years. 3 classes would be plenty. I'm ok with P having a championship for pro am teams too if that simplifies things. We've got to remember the average race fan isn't smart enough to tell the difference between different classes within prototype and grand touring classes, and a lighted, color coded number board isn't enough to make most fans see the difference between the two.
 
cnd01
We've got to remember the average race fan isn't smart enough to tell the difference between different classes within prototype and grand touring classes, and a lighted, color coded number board isn't enough to make most fans see the difference between the two.
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This isn't NASCAR where everything's plain and simple. In my opinion, sports car racing is for the more hard core/knowledgable racing fans. Think about it, when have you ever seen someone at a sports car race who at least wasn't with someone who knew what the ins and outs of the sport were? It's not like NASCAR racing where half the spectators are hillbillies who wandered out to the camp sites for beer and then realized there was actually a race.
 
Sam48
This isn't NASCAR where everything's plain and simple. In my opinion, sports car racing is for the more hard core/knowledgable racing fans. Think about it, when have you ever seen someone at a sports car race who at least wasn't with someone who knew what the ins and outs of the sport were? It's not like NASCAR racing where half the spectators are hillbillies who wandered out to the camp sites for beer and then realized there was actually a race.
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The Rolex 24 never fails to surprise me :lol:
 
cnd01
The Rolex 24 never fails to surprise me :lol:
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Which just so happens to take place on the most popular NASCAR track (so no wonder). Stop by any road course on a sports car only weekend and you'll be hard pressed to find what I'm talking about.
 
cnd01
Conisdering Ganassi is 6th in driver points right now, I don't see much weight in that argument either.
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Alright, to add weight to this argument, I'll mention a couple years back where the 01 won so many races in a row that Grand-Am offered a cash bonus to anyone who could beat them.
 
cnd01
Conisdering Ganassi is 6th in driver points right now, I don't see much weight in that argument either. There has been 5 different winners in DP this season. It's pretty close if you ask me compared to the alms LMP1 where all mmpr has to do is finish two more races or win one and they will clinch. Of course, the green X challenge is such a close battle right now :rollseyes: Car count per class is another pro of grand am. There are just as many DP racing the remainder of the races in Rolex as LMP in all 3 classes (7 being a spec prototype) in the alms not to mention grand am has a much easier format to televise. The races are a lot easier to keep up with on tv. I get to see more racing for longer because they're not constantly flipping between 5 classes where the best races are the classes that are spec and don't get much air time. In grand am, we get DP and Gt split 64/35% tv roughly with 1% Gx (which normally is one of the Mazda engines taking a dump) I don't like having 4 classes in the USCR, but I'm willing to keep them for a few years. 3 classes would be plenty. I'm ok with P having a championship for pro am teams too if that simplifies things. We've got to remember the average race fan isn't smart enough to tell the difference between different classes within prototype and grand touring classes, and a lighted, color coded number board isn't enough to make most fans see the difference between the two.
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Same bs argument over and over. You keep talking about ALMS when you know I dont follow that series for the prototype battle. You go back to the same talking points but never address the questions put forth. How many championships have those 5 different race winners won in the past 3 or 4 years? No one is talking about the mediocre classes in GA. 2 MAYBE 3 GX cars. Prep 2 cars mixed with unibody cars in GT. Ferrari 458s racing Tube frame Camaros and the same 8 or 9 cars with different numbers and liveries with different stickers for headlights. You fault one series but can't take a critique of GA? You come back when you can address those lies you spread about how cheap and close your series is. Never hear a peep from you about their bop measures like increased or decreased revs for teams. I watch all racing, but I dont support them. I don't find all racing appealing. Especially series that act like their the be all end all.
 
Sam48
Which just so happens to take place on the most popular NASCAR track (so no wonder). Stop by any road course on a sports car only weekend and you'll be hard pressed to find what I'm talking about.
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I'll add to that with going to my first Petit LeMans and seeing a guy with patched elbows on a tweed sport coat sitting and smoking a pipe. And in all the years I've been, Heineken, the only import served at concessions, was the most common beer.


If GA has a lot of redneck fans and they ruin the Patron tent and race models for everyone I will be pissed.
 
LancerEvo7
Alright, to add weight to this argument, I'll mention a couple years back where the 01 won so many races in a row that Grand-Am offered a cash bonus to anyone who could beat them.
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That year was domination. They won the first three races convincingly. They ended up with 8 or 9 that year.

freshseth83
Same bs argument over and over. You keep talking about ALMS when you know I dont follow that series for the prototype battle. You go back to the same talking points but never address the questions put forth. How many championships have those 5 different race winners won in the past 3 or 4 years? No one is talking about the mediocre classes in GA. 2 MAYBE 3 GX cars. Prep 2 cars mixed with unibody cars in GT. Ferrari 458s racing Tube frame Camaros and the same 8 or 9 cars with different numbers and liveries with different stickers for headlights. You fault one series but can't take a critique of GA? You come back when you can address those lies you spread about how cheap and close your series is. Never hear a peep from you about their bop measures like increased or decreased revs for teams. I watch all racing, but I dont support them. I don't find all racing appealing. Especially series that act like their the be all end all.
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I'm a huge fan of BoP for a series like grand am. Without it, I would not watch it because it would be like watching the grass grow in my front yard. You should know that I'm not going to complain about something I know is necessary to keeping the cars in check; however, I think Gx class is the dumbest decision grand am ever made. It was literally taylor-made for Mazda to have a free year to develop a car. I'm fine with Ferrari 458s racing prep 2 cars. It makes the field more diverse. I've already mentioned the benefits of prep 2 either on here or the grand am thread. Plus, Gagt cars almost hit 190 at Daytona. (I'll post a link with trap speed data if you don't believe me.) I like the different liveries and the freedom to put whatever style and size number on as well as the freedom to put it wherever the team wants to on the car. I personally hate those number boards on cars. It makes me focus on figuring out what number is on the car. They're hard to see in broad daylight from personal experience.

Btw: if you're hating on grand am for teams not having headlights on the car when there's a zero % chance of rain and the 2:45 race starts at 2 p.m., I'm glad you don't like it. Imsa gtp cars had headlight stickers in some races...
 
Hating? No. Its pathetic a sportscar has faux lights. Its like Nascar 0.5! The teams don't even have funds to run qualifying in the rain :ouch: or maybe thats just an excuse to not buy a new car if theirs gets damaged beyond repair? Youd think spares would be brought, guess not. How unprofessional is that? The street cars come with working lights but not the race cars. Just little things like that make you stop and think is this really a top flight series? Or should I just watch a baseball game?
 
freshseth83
Hating? No. Its pathetic a sportscar has faux lights. Its like Nascar 0.5! The teams don't even have funds to run qualifying in the rain :ouch: or maybe thats just an excuse to not buy a new car if theirs gets damaged beyond repair? Youd think spares would be brought, guess not. How unprofessional is that? The street cars come with working lights but not the race cars. Just little things like that make you stop and think is this really a top flight series? Or should I just watch a baseball game?
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Don't hate on baseball...
 
Muele, my recent Daily Rant thread post comes into play here, too.

If Seth's going to call me disrespectful, unwanted slang names, I'm leaving the thread until some amount of... Uhhhhh, what's the word...? Respect 💡 returns.
 
You guys are killing me with this back and forth. One guy likes GA one and another doesn't, move along and just agree to disagree.

I like both series and can't wait to see what actually happens in general even if I am a fan of GA (it's what brought me into the road racing side of racing). All this back and forth makes it confusing for the casual fan as myself but eh on track I probably can't tell a difference between GT cars without really paying attention, so who cares!
 
Wilbur, Seth's calling me "Melany," now, which is just poor form. The "back-and-forth" is just because Seth wants to "tread around the AUP very lightly" whilst still insulting me, not proving anything, and talking down to me like I'm stupid.


I'm asking for the back-and-forth to stop, too.
 
freshseth83
I've got no issue with anyone here. I have issues with these arguments that are falsified on perception rather than real arguments with fact.
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Pity you can't separate the two then, really:
freshseth83
Your jokes still aren't funny. And that laughing you hear? Just you and your imagination.

Melany ... Melany
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As someone who's been treading the line for abusing others since you came back from your temporary ban for abusing others, you'd think you'd know better. Not to mention two separate moderators giving you in-thread reminders in the last week.

Guess not.
 
So, back to Grand-Am talk.



I'm happy with the direction of the merger, albeit imperfect, I feel like it's a good starting ground.


And there's no one here to insult me for thinking it, :sly: WOOOOHOOO!
 
So, about the new tire.
Don't forget the USCR pitting procedure is for fueling and tire changing simultaneously.

What are people's thoughts about the USCR implementing a different tire compound for each race like the Indy series and Super V8's, which mandate using both compounds during a race.
I myself don't watch all series out there so I don't know what the rest of the world is doing as far as tires.

A friend of mine was talking about what some motorcycle series do with supplying different compounds with a choice of which to use when.
I don't watch bikes so I don't know much about the tires.

Now I know some are worried about the LeMans race but this is more for the regular season here in the USA.

What are some of the positives and/or negatives if the USCR decides to try multiple tire compounds during races?
Comments on the USCR as well as any other series should be considered.
No mention of multiple compounds as of yet, but for sake of discussion what do people think.

I think it would be too much on the plate for everyone involved in this first year of the merger.




About the previously discussed Hoosier/Conti connection.

This article says the following, " Conti designs the race tires but contracts their production to Hoosier Racing Tire Corp. of Plymouth, Ind.".

I think cnd01 had commented about the Hoosier connection and I said that Conti bought General Tire and started Continental Tire of North America, which is also true.


In other news the new BMW DP engine loses 150 rpm (8200 to 8050).
Related tweet. https://twitter.com/Gilmarmsmith/status/365315459295346689/photo/1
Go Chubby cheeks!!
 
Honestly I like the concept of soft or hard tire. Granted I don't know if you should have to use them each race but options are nice for maybe a slower team or teams who qualified crappy, etc.

I've always which other series would adopt this tire option.
 
I've heard John Vincent(mechanical engineer for CKS Autosport in the conti sports car challenge) talk about how conti does make two different tires. One tire is what everyone now uses. The other one has more grip and lasts as long, but it doesn't have very good puncture resistance. Teams would rather have a slower tire that's more durable.

As far as multiple compounds in one race, I'm alright with that. It makes no difference to me.
 
As long as its not the asinine crap that's going on in F1 (designed to wear out to hell on purpose), I'm ok with it.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing two compounds, but I'd rather let the teams be free to use them however they want throughout the race.
 
LancerEvo7
I don't like the spec tire, but otherwise the merger is going better than I expected so far. 👍
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I also would like to see more than one tire maker in each of the top prototype and GT classes. I have no problem with the spec tire in the PC and GTD classes.
 

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