2014 United Sports Car Championship

[RACECAR]

Did anyone else get the email today in tires because GT is going to be weird as GT-Daytona runs current spec tire brand, while LeMan's run whatever they wish. Sucks to be Daytona GT car because you can't try something new.

If we're honest (outside the Grand-am spec GT3 cars), has anyone in the GTD class tried anything "new"? The way its going for the new series looks to be pretty much the most "New" the class has had in some time since Pratt & Miller were last involved.

Dunno if they'll be doing it differently with the C7, but I thought GM had made the Camaro their GT car for the last year+.

Nope, those are essentially rebodied GXP.Rs built by Stevenson.

I am myself curious as to if the Corvette DP will be incorporating the looks of the C7 (which would fit a Rear-engine race car a lot better then the C6 bodywork did).

Isn't it confusing that a proper Corvette is racing in the same race as another Corvette-branded Dallara? And the "fake" Corvette is in the flagship class while the "real" one is in the GTLM class?

Though not in the exact same matter, you kinda could ask the same about Super GT with a GT500 Silouette race car styled as a GT-R racing on the same track as a GT3 GT-R in GT300.

 

[cnd01]

Did anyone else get the email today in tires because GT is going to be weird as GT-Daytona runs current spec tire brand, while LeMan's run whatever they wish. Sucks to be Daytona GT car because you can't try something new.

I think continental is going to do a hell of a job. I think they have already especially in the conti series. They have to make specific tires for everything from a 2100 lb miata to a 3375 lb Ford mustang and the occasional challenger. The task is enormous though.

The biggest reason why I'm glad conti is the big tire provider is that they put a lot of money into grand am as is. The series needs big sponsors like that. Plus, the continental tire girls are easy on the eyes

 

[LancerEvo7]

That term is used for brand identity for the fans which is good marketing imo

Yes, which requires manufacturer interest.

 

[hawkeye122]

I am myself curious as to if the Corvette DP will be incorporating the looks of the C7

I thought I heard a commentator say at Indy that they wouldnt be a "Corvette DP" next year.

 

[cnd01]

I thought I heard a commentator say at Indy that they wouldnt be a "Corvette DP" next year.

The rumor is that Chevy is going to a general bodywork like Ford and probably Bmw. Chevy doesn't want to take interest away from corvette racing in gtlm with their corvette DP. Plus, an interesting note is the rule book is that the Chevy DP engine can be called Cadillac if the team wants to

 

[hawkeye122]

There's something just brilliant (if not slightly wrong) about a "Cadillac" prototype. I hope they do it. I'll even buy their shirt if they do.

A Starworks-Mini or Ganassi-Rolls Royce would be even better. Or, perhaps the Michael Shank Lincoln?

I'm curious who is gonna fill the Spirit of Daytona and Corvette GT spots. Presumably, they'll absorb the Stevenson guys for the long ones?

 

[FoolKiller]

There's something just brilliant (if not slightly wrong) about a "Cadillac" prototype. I hope they do it. I'll even buy their shirt if they do.

There was one in the early days of ALMS. In 2011 I got a free Cadillac Racing shirt at Petit LeMans.

 

[Wilbur]

There was one in the early days of ALMS. In 2011 I got a free Cadillac Racing shirt at Petit LeMans.

You still can get them at Pirelli World Challenge events.

 

[cnd01]

There's something just brilliant (if not slightly wrong) about a "Cadillac" prototype. I hope they do it. I'll even buy their shirt if they do.

A Starworks-Mini or Ganassi-Rolls Royce would be even better. Or, perhaps the Michael Shank Lincoln?

I'm curious who is gonna fill the Spirit of Daytona and Corvette GT spots. Presumably, they'll absorb the Stevenson guys for the long ones?

With Westbrook racing for SoD, I don't know what's going to happen. No idea if Ricky Taylor will stay or go race for his dad again. Antonio Garcia has been the 3rd driver for SoD too. Robin Liddell will more than likely be one of those two places. John Edwards has RLL Bmw obligations, so I don't know what he's doing.

 

[freshseth83]

Though not in the exact same matter, you kinda could ask the same about Super GT with a GT500 Silouette race car styled as a GT-R racing on the same track as a GT3 GT-R in GT300.

Its not the same really. GTR GT3 has only been in SuperGT for the past 2 years, and the GT500 cars aren't spec (until next season). Big differences, besides the fact GT500 is actually faster than P2. Thats my reasoning in believing they should addopt DTM/GT500 regs for DP. Then have real variety in prototype.

 

[hawkeye122]

Its not the same really. GTR GTÈ has only been in SuperGT for the past 2 years, and the GT500 cars aren't spec (until next season). Big differences, besides the fact GT500 is actually faster than P2. Thats my reasoning in believing they should addopt DTM/GT500 regs for DP. Then have real variety in prototype.

That would be great!
Now, who's getting out their checkbooks...

I'm pretty sure that in it's current guise, LMP2 cars are substantially cheaper up-front and to run and to repair than a GT500 car.

In principle, that's what I'd like to see too. But in practice? No way it's gonna happen.

With all the Hybrid supercars coming out, I wonder if it may be a good idea to re-look at a GT1-type spec, but with an allowance for those hybrid systems. That would be a pretty awesome DP class, if not expensive. And virtually no American manufacturers would take grid spaces. But over in Europe- McLaren, Ferrari, Porsche... hopefully Jag builds theirs....


In fairness, the whole point of DP is simplicity(And low-ish cost), and I don't think GT500 cars really fit that bill.

 

[cnd01]

DP/P2 season budgets are 1/10 dtm and super gt from what I've heard. Could be wrong.

Developing new technology for DP is basically counterproductive because all of that technology is subject to BoP which essentially makes spending lots of money in the series pointless. That's how it's simplicity is obtained even though a DP isn't cost capped. Going high tech without the strict BoP kills the DP formula thus ending the DP. That's why I'm so against adding technology to it because it goes against what it is. It would no longer be a DP if that happened.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Adding an interesting interview to this debate:

 

[RACECAR]

Its not the same really.

Which I already pointed out:

Though not in the exact same matter, you kinda could ask the same about Super GT with a GT500 Silouette race car styled as a GT-R racing on the same track as a GT3 GT-R in GT300

Anyhow:

GTR GTÈ has only been in SuperGT for the past 2 years, and the GT500 cars aren't spec (until next season). Big differences, besides the fact GT500 is actually faster than P2. Thats my reasoning in believing they should addopt DTM/GT500 regs for DP. Then have real variety in prototype.

The point I was making wasn't about them being spec, it was that like with the Corvette DP and Corvette C6.R seeming to confuse people who aren't racing fans, anyone new to Super GT may be just as confused with the GT500 GT-R and the GT3 GT-R(not GTE, big difference ) being on the same track.

 

[Furinkazen]

DTM and Super GT are a totally different formula irrelevant to this entire discussion.

 

[freshseth83]

Which I already pointed out:



Anyhow:



The point I was making wasn't about them being spec, it was that like with the Corvette DP and Corvette C6.R seeming to confuse people who aren't racing fans, anyone new to Super GT may be just as confused with the GT500 GT-R and the GT3 GT-R(not GTE, big difference ) being on the same track.

It was a typo on the phone. It was GTÈ but suppose to be GT3. No one is confused by GT500 cars. They're more impressed seeing them. I'd rather the GT500 than the monster sized GT3. Oh and there wouldn't be a big difference if Nissan did make a GTE GTR. They said so themselves.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Seth, we know that you're full of ridiculous ideas, but... This takes the cake.


Seriously, Seth, why would you even consider making a DTM car to replace a DP car? that's the worst idea for the series I've ever heard. I would stop watching. Your precious ALMS, I would stop watching, I wouldn't be alone, it would die, Grand-Am would revert back to DP, and continue being successful.

 

[RACECAR]

It was a typo on the phone. It was GTÈ but suppose to be GT3. No one is confused by GT500 cars. They're more impressed seeing them. I'd rather the GT500 than the monster sized GT3. Oh and there wouldn't be a big difference if Nissan did make a GTE GTR. They said so themselves.

Note that I said anyone new, which are usually the people that you try to attract. Of course you and I as well as many longtime fans can tell the difference, its the new ones that likely aren't as keen.

 

[freshseth83]

That would be great!
Now, who's getting out their checkbooks...

I'm pretty sure that in it's current guise, LMP2 cars are substantially cheaper up-front and to run and to repair than a GT500 car.

In principle, that's what I'd like to see too. But in practice? No way it's gonna happen.

With all the Hybrid supercars coming out, I wonder if it may be a good idea to re-look at a GT1-type spec, but with an allowance for those hybrid systems. That would be a pretty awesome DP class, if not expensive. And virtually no American manufacturers would take grid spaces. But over in Europe- McLaren, Ferrari, Porsche... hopefully Jag builds theirs....


In fairness, the whole point of DP is simplicity(And low-ish cost), and I don't think GT500 cars really fit that bill.

DTM direction is the way GT500 is headed. And the cars are not hugely expensive. This is a myth from the internet. Just like DP runs to a spec, DTM uses common parts which are bought from a supplier. This includes the carbon fiber tub. The manufacturers make the body shell and the aerodynamic parts, but theyre standardized. The rear wing is the same, the shape, the diveplane positions etc.

DP/P2 season budgets are 1/10 dtm and super gt from what I've heard. Could be wrong.

You are.

Developing new technology for DP is basically counterproductive because all of that technology is subject to BoP which essentially makes spending lots of money in the series pointless. That's how it's simplicity is obtained even though a DP isn't cost capped. Going high tech without the strict BoP kills the DP formula thus ending the DP. That's why I'm so against adding technology to it because it goes against what it is. It would no longer be a DP if that happened.

Thats about the most absurd thing I've ever read. Technology is in GT500 right now and it isn't "bop'ed". DP is just a name. Its not a formula. Big slow cars with 30 year old engine technology with no aerodynamics is what you are starring at. Thats what you enjoy because the racing is 'close', but no closer than other series with actual relevant technology? GT1 with just 4 cars back in 2006 were doing 1:59 laps at Road America and people loved it. Some intense racing between Aston Martin and Corvette. There was no bop or spec. Just build your cars to a ruleset and go.

Note that I said anyone new, which are usually the people that you try to attract. Of course you and I as well as many longtime fans can tell the difference, its the new ones that likely aren't as keen.

New? Whats it matter? Its a japanese series first of all so unless you speak Japanese or know of SuperGT, youll be confused regardless.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Seth, stop talking like you know stuff. You don't. You don't post anything with proof. You post "you're wrong, I'm not" without proving it.


For everything you just said, please post proof. I'm not going to be a college professor about it, and demand you post the sources with the date the article was written on. Just post something with proof.

 

[freshseth83]

"From the mouths of babes utters forth foolishness"...
Proof is all around you, boy. In this thread alone there is proof. Grow out of your ignorant ways.

 

[Furinkazen]

"From the mouths of babes utters forth foolishness" Proof is all around you, boy. In this thread alone there is proof. Grow out of your ignorant ways.

Seth. Grow up with the attitude. When you are head of IMSA, Super GT, DTM, FIA, or ACO, then make such statements.

 

[freshseth83]

Seth. Grow up with the attitude. When you are head of IMSA, Super GT, DTM, FIA, or ACO, then make such statements.

What statements? You mean the ones like "a dp program is 1/10 of DTM"? Don't be a nitpicker. Call out the blatantly false, but you can't because you're too busy talking about my attitude.

 

[polarbear345]

Just some links would go a long way.

 

[LancerEvo7]

I thought the original plan from a few years back was to run DP to DTM regulations? I'm certainly not complaining that it's not the plan anymore, but I seem to remember it being that.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

... I'm still waiting. Are you unable to post proof because you can't find proof? Is it maybe time for you to drop the unending bad-mouthing attitude, and that quote I've heard four hundred times before. You're the only one who uses it. I kid you not, you're the one "uttering foolishness" since you have nothing better to say. Unless you're willing to post proof, that maybe you're not *entirely* wrong, but...

 

[freshseth83]

Like this one? http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380665 less than 1/10 of their last F1 budget. Which was 200million a year. Thats BMWs total budget, for all the teams it supplies. So under $20million for the 2012 season and all the cars/teams they supply. 5 teams and 10 cars for 2013, so it can estimated that it's $2million per car(s) per season. Then they pay their drivers (mostly). Therefor that would mean a DP program would only cost $200,000 to run a year if like cnd says, its 1/10 (theres that fraction again) of a DTM budget. Which is unfathomable. I'll be waiting for you to tell me that DP costs 200k. You can't even purchase a car for that price.

 

[hawkeye122]

Like this one? http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380665 less than 1/10 of their last F1 budget. Which was 200million a year. Thats BMWs total budget, for all the teams it supplies. So under $20million for the 2012 season and all the cars/teams they supply. 5 teams and 10 cars for 2013, so it can estimated that it's $2million per car(s) per season. Then they pay their drivers (mostly). Therefor that would mean a DP program would only cost $200,000 to run a year if like cnd says, its 1/10 (theres that fraction again) of a DTM budget. Which is unfathomable. I'll be waiting for you to tell me that DP costs 200k. You can't even purchase a car for that price.

Why didnt you post that in the first place instead of hurling insults at people for the subsequent 3 or 4 posts.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

A majority of that $20,000,000 is development costs. Seriously, Seth, you're forgetting that BMW's DTM car is brand new. They developed the bodywork for optimal aerodynamics, and the suspensions, etc.


You think BMW has anything to do with Rolex, except being paid for the motors they develop? Suddenly, it's fathomable.

 

[freshseth83]

Why didnt you post that in the first place instead of hurling insults at people for the subsequent 3 or 4 posts.

What insults? I said cnd was wrong. He was. Told Melany he had proof in this thread, which he does. If you need someone to tell you, then youre not doing your research before posting false information. So either youre lying or youre just ignorant.

A majority of that $20,000,000 is development costs. Seriously, Seth, you're forgetting that BMW's DTM car is brand new. They developed the bodywork for optimal aerodynamics, and the suspensions, etc.


You think BMW has anything to do with Rolex, except being paid for the motors they develop? Suddenly, it's fathomable.

Typical denial. The story says BMW'S 2012 BUDGET. Not their development costs. As for the rest of your statement, what don't you understand? DTM is coming to America in the near future. BMW is part of DTM. The whole conversation was "DP could move to DTM/GT500 regs in the future as theyre equal in pace to lmp2", and now you see theyre pushing forward with this type of series which could be the groundwork for the future DP rules. If you don't see the connection then theres no reason to continue replying.