2014 United Sports Car Championship

[ITCC_Andrew]

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I'm not a fan of hybrids... "We'll give you two motors for the price of two motors."


And all so that mom's minivan can be more fuel-efficient? There are so many ways to make cars more fuel-efficient without paying for two motors to do one motor's job...

 

[R0ssingt0n]

Yeah but 2 motors usually means more speed and more speed is fun

 

[Furinkazen]

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I'm not a fan of hybrids... "We'll give you two motors for the price of two motors."


And all so that mom's minivan can be more fuel-efficient? There are so many ways to make cars more fuel-efficient without paying for two motors to do one motor's job...

Oh dear you need to learn some more and research Mel.

Even Porsche said the road link was a reason they decided to come back.

Another one.

This in itself makes LMP a more important platform than DP as LMP has road connections and that is what attracts the manufacturers.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Or more weight. More weight = less fun.


I mean, you can make a hybrid have however much power you want. If it's too heavy, it's still not going to be fun. I like small, lightweight saloons, like the GC8 Impreza and Evo VI body (=1999-2001 year models) Lancers. Small, fun, relatively good on gas, lightweight and inexpensive.

By contrast, modern cars are becoming heavier. I don't care what sort of trick suspension it's got, it's still heavy.


If you want to talk about innovative technology, talk about innovative technology that's useful, has a purpose, and isn't going to work against itself. Hybrids add weight. That's worse for gas mileage. The whole purpose of hybrid systems has lost its relevance, in my eyes, due to that.

At one point, my friend and I were discussing using the frame of my Birel go-kart to create an electric kart. We quickly found out that the motors you would need would be unwieldly and extremely expensive. If that's where road cars are headed, that sucks.

 

[Furinkazen]

What in the world is a go-kart to do with anything? And making a car more efficient cuts down on running costs. Weight? Are most Audi owners going to be bombing it down the freeway and whinging "Err my A4 is too heavy because of an energy recovery system in the rear axle?" No....

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Yes, when their brakes deplete faster...

 

[Furinkazen]

Yes, when their brakes deplete faster...

... back on topic, that road going link is something DP doesn't have, which harms it's appeal to auto manufacturers. However, DP does have enough teams and cars though to sustain itself now, to its credit.

 

[R0ssingt0n]

Then Audi will just develop better brakes.

 

[Furinkazen]

Then Audi will just develop better brakes.

Just saying, if they can develop brakes that can last for 24 hours braking from 320kph at least 4 times a lap then they can make some decent road car brakes. Ya never know though, they might just be made of paper

 

[R0ssingt0n]

Just saying, if they can develop brakes that can last for 24 hours braking from 320kph at least 4 times a lap then they can make some decent road car brakes. Ya never know though, they might just be made of paper

Well yeah they're not Go-Kart brakes! anyway I'm getting way off topic

 

[cnd01]

... back on topic, that road going link is something DP doesn't have, which harms it's appeal to auto manufacturers. However, DP does have enough teams and cars though to sustain itself now, to its credit.

Yea the DP isn't intended to appeal to manufacturers by design. That's how it has enough cars to sustain itself because it's so unappealing to manufacturers.

 

[Furinkazen]

Yea the DP isn't intended to appeal to manufacturers by design. That's how it has enough cars to sustain itself because it's so unappealing to manufacturers.

What...? Something is only sustainable if it has an appeal. DP is targeted at a different type of race team, the type who want a car to go racing. It's not got the manufacturer appeal that means it won't get a global appeal. For what it does with smaller teams allowing them to race it's fantastic. But for any wider audience globally its not. However, as the new series looks very US orientated in this regard, it's clear to me it's going to try and aim and keep the DP approach to keep itself sustainable to the existing teams. In the short term its a brilliant approach, but it will reply on those teams and owners remaining there in the long run if the championship is to last.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Then Audi will just develop better brakes.

Or stop trying to slow a two-ton car down, by stopping with the two-ton car nonsense. I draw the line at three-tons. If a car reaches that much weight, I'm going to buy all 90s cars.

 

[Wilbur]

Hybrid systems are expensive and there were cars that got great mileage on petrol engines. I'm not a fan of electric power as it still requires alot to make it work but this isn't the place for that talk.

I don't mind LMP1 using advanced technology at all, they can try whatever they want. They won't be included in this so if they want to race to thee own rules, so be it.

DP would be interested to see at LeMans and I actually like the way they look but granted they aren't the sexiest cars to be built.

 

[cnd01]

What...? Something is only sustainable if it has an appeal. DP is targeted at a different type of race team, the type who want a car to go racing. It's not got the manufacturer appeal that means it won't get a global appeal. For what it does with smaller teams allowing them to race it's fantastic. But for any wider audience globally its not. However, as the new series looks very US orientated in this regard, it's clear to me it's going to try and aim and keep the DP approach to keep itself sustainable to the existing teams. In the short term its a brilliant approach, but it will reply on those teams and owners remaining there in the long run if the championship is to last.

Aside from 8Star, every full season DP has competed in the series for 5+ seasons in grand am, and even Enzo Potoliccio competed with Starworks for a season and a half before he founded 8Star. Sahlens competed in gt for years before making the switch to DP. This experiment has worked Cost has been kept low because manufacturers have not been interested.

 

[LancerEvo7]

So if manufacturers aren't interested, why is there a Corvette DP?

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

So if manufacturers aren't interested, why is there a Corvette DP?

Because putting headlights and a name on it makes it a Dallara Corvette.

 

[cnd01]

So if manufacturers aren't interested, why is there a Corvette DP?

My definition of interest is a full-scale manufacturer run team.

 

[Furinkazen]

Because putting headlights and a name on it makes it a Dallara Corvette.

I put Mustang stickers on my DP. that make it a Mustang? No.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I put Mustang stickers on my DP. that make it a Mustang? No.

You don't have a DP.


Anyways, if you don't like Chevy's cheap marketing nonsense which is entirely incomprehensible and irrelevant, talk to Chevy. I don't understand or agree with the Corvette DP, either. I think it's ugly.

 

[cnd01]

I put Mustang stickers on my DP. that make it a Mustang? No.

The corvette DP isn't really a corvette at all. It's technically a coyote, a dallara, or a Riley. Unless Chevy builds the chassis, it's not a "corvette DP" That term is used for brand identity for the fans which is good marketing imo

 

[Hun200kmh]

The corvette DP isn't really a corvette at all. It's technically a coyote, a dallara, or a Riley. Unless Chevy builds the chassis, it's not a "corvette DP" That term is used for brand identity for the fans which is good marketing imo

But isn't that a bit cheap, even as a marketing tool? I mean, I can understand litle manufacturers with no proper current racing R&D doing it because their brands mean something (Morgan; Caterham; Alpine) or bankrupt companies allowing their still useful brands to be used (Lotus), but I fail to understand such a concept with a big car maker (Chevrolet) that has a works team racing their own cars at the highest level (Corvette). Isn't it confusing that a proper Corvette is racing in the same race as another Corvette-branded Dallara? And the "fake" Corvette is in the flagship class while the "real" one is in the GTLM class?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

So if manufacturers aren't interested, why is there a Corvette DP?

Sad part is it's already been shown that manufactures aren't involved due to no factory support. The engines are built by certain groups some of which are NASCAR teams..

But isn't that a bit cheap, even as a marketing tool? I mean, I can understand litle manufacturers with no proper current racing R&D doing it because their brands mean something (Morgan; Caterham; Alpine) or bankrupt companies allowing their still useful brands to be used (Lotus), but I fail to understand such a concept with a big car maker (Chevrolet) that has a works team racing their own cars at the highest level (Corvette). Isn't it confusing that a proper Corvette is racing in the same race as another Corvette-branded Dallara? And the "fake" Corvette is in the flagship class while the "real" one is in the GTLM class?

It's not like it's the first time GM have done this with the Corvette.

 

[cnd01]

But isn't that a bit cheap, even as a marketing tool? I mean, I can understand litle manufacturers with no proper current racing R&D doing it because their brands mean something (Morgan; Caterham; Alpine) or bankrupt companies allowing their still useful brands to be used (Lotus), but I fail to understand such a concept with a big car maker (Chevrolet) that has a works team racing their own cars at the highest level (Corvette). Isn't it confusing that a proper Corvette is racing in the same race as another Corvette-branded Dallara? And the "fake" Corvette is in the flagship class while the "real" one is in the GTLM class?

Well it's been said on here before that the corvette DP doesn't look like a corvette at all, so I see no issue

Sad part is it's already been shown that manufactures aren't involved due to no factory support. The engines are built by certain groups some of which are NASCAR teams..

It's not like it's the first time GM have done this with the Corvette.

That corvette LMP program comes to mind

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well it's been said on here before that the corvette DP doesn't look like a corvette at all, so I see no issue

GM only did it because like you've said they were trying to go for brand recognition like GA asked for from everyone. The Corvette DP cars are somewhat factory backed I guess.

That corvette LMP program comes to mind

Yeah, the cars look almost identical, I mean the original has more of a C4 front end, while this is obviously C6/C7.

They haven't tried to keep much of an image of the Rolex Sports Car Series, either.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree I think there is more Rolex than ALMS.

You're the only one comparing them to P1 and F1. I'm comparing ALMS GTE cars to Grand-Am and GT3 cars. And you then go on to say the exact reason why GTE teams want to finish in front of GT3 teams, because if any of them drive an under-developed car, they're going to be slower than the Pro-Am class of cars (if they were full GT3 spec).

...Once again as in my other post, the GTE vs GT3 is equal. GTE's idea of development is making the body wider than the previous year and slightly changing the aero parts like the rear wings restriction to try and create more speed. There is no actual development by definition of the word and idea. That was my point. I'm not trying to compare. I'm just saying that the word development is a misnomer when you actually look at what true development is in motorsports.

By "teams" you mean Chip Ganassi racing. And the cost-effective racing formula by Grand-Am I mentioned refers to the fact that they would want to have different cars than another racing series, but since they're only racing in one series, the cars need to be cheaper, since the volume would be lower. ALMS teams are buying cars that are raced around the world, and thus can afford to be more expensive, since that's how they get their volume.

Also as stated in a recent interview with Michael Andretti big teams like that only venture into Sports Car racing when they have money backing them. Lexus and Ganassi's sponsors found Grand-Am to be the better fit, so he went and raced there. Now he's running BMW's and he's still getting a good deal of financial backing to continue there. No NASCAR or IndyCar or even Sports Car team makes decisions like running in the big classes without having serious money behind the program. Because if you think it's cheap running in just one, imagine the costs involved in running in two or three?

That was kind of my point, when I said how expensive NASCAR is and you have major teams running in Sports Cars. If they have the money to do this then they also have the money to do it in ALMS as Letterman-Rahal has shown us. Also what about Starworks what will they do next year? Krohn also races ALMS and GA, what are they going to do, run their DP and GTE cars next year?

When I said NASCAR teams, Roush has influence in DP and builds engines for the series, Ganassi obviously brings money to their team only. The point was to show you that Teams run in more expensive series and either ALMS or GA or both ALMS & GA, thus it must not be massively expensive to run either Sport Car Series. ALMS cars don't run globally so I don't see how you can factor that in as an expense.

I feel like this has been the trend for this entire conversation we've been having.

Sorry, I guess? Either way I guess we'll have to wait to see what next year brings then pick this back up unless more info comes before then to debate this further.

 

[MrWednesday]

BIsn't it confusing that a proper Corvette is racing in the same race as another Corvette-branded Dallara? And the "fake" Corvette is in the flagship class while the "real" one is in the GTLM class?

Dunno if they'll be doing it differently with the C7, but I thought GM had made the Camaro their GT car for the last year+.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Dunno if they'll be doing it differently with the C7, but I thought GM had made the Camaro their GT car for the last year+.

No...GM have several GT class cars. The Corvette is their more successful one, have you not heard of their GTE car, it's pictured in my avatar (for now).

 

[Wilbur]

Did anyone else get the email today in tires because GT is going to be weird as GT-Daytona runs current spec tire brand, while LeMan's run whatever they wish. Sucks to be Daytona GT car because you can't try something new.

 

[freshseth83]

You don't have a DP.

And you don't have an argument.

Anyways, if you don't like Chevy's cheap marketing nonsense which is entirely incomprehensible and irrelevant, talk to Chevy. I don't understand or agree with the Corvette DP, either. I think it's ugly.

But you brought it up

 

[Snaeper]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree I think there is more Rolex than ALMS.

I don't see it. The regulatory body is named IMSA. The Daytona Prototypes have been rumored to receive the bulk of the upgrades for the new Prototype class. The PC class is completely unchanged (Whereas the ALMS Prototypes will go largely unchanged). The ALMS GTE class is completely unchanged. The former Rolex GT class is now Pro/Am, is essentially forcing the tube-framed car teams out (aside from Mazda, which very well may end up being the only tuber in the series in 2014) due to the cost of upgrading the cars, and is attracting enough new cars and teams to look nothing like the GA's GT or ALMS's GTC. Both series are bringing their two marquee tracks and events (D24, WG6; PLMS, S12), and there's a larger demand for more of the ALMS elements of technical inspection and track safety crews than running with the previous Grand-Am methods. Primary staff members are an equal split between Grand-Am/NASCAR and ALMS personnel. And it's all under a name that doesn't sound like either of the previous series.

Seems pretty even (if a little ALMS biased) to me.