2014 United Sports Car Championship

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freshseth83
Wuh wuh, cry me a river. I have watched Grand Am for a long time. Probably before you even knew what it was. It's bs to think a guy has to mortgage a house to repair a race car. I thought they were so affordable? He wouldn't be in that situation if the driving was clean, but "boogity boogity" "rubbin' is racin'" "argy bargey"; isn't that your GA modo? :lol:

Nothing wrong with a little argy bargy man.
 
I never said the GT3 car was slower. I said it was "slower". The GTE teams have the better drivers and the bigger budgets, they want to be finishing ahead of the GT3 cars. And if recall correctly, development was one of the issues AJR stopped running the Evora, and that Mr. Job was sore over merging with Grand-Am, since they don't like developing cars as much as the ALMS does.

You can call it a takeover, I call it ALMS "surrendering", since they are the ones who put up the "For Sale" sign. The tone "takeover" seems to imply that Grand Am pulled some economic coup to buy out their competitor and put them out of business. OR we can not spin it either way and call it exactly what it was reported to be: A mutually agreed buyout of ALMS by Grand-Am after agreement of terms.

I agree with you that Don Panoz gave up on this but GA really hasn't made much to keep any image of ALMS. Also I'm not trying to spin it, I'm not Fox News or MSNBC.

Once again, that doesn't discount what I just said about what development actually is compared to actual developmental formulas like LMP1 and F1. Alex Job also said that they hadn't done very much development the year prior and that cost them and it didn't seem they were willing to really make an effort when they realized they needed to actually test and develop a car to be successful like any team. ALMS gave them a massive break with weight to help them out even...

And so what about ALMS teams having a harder time. Some of the GTC teams are hardy and will likely be able to suffer the change (Flying Lizard, AJR, TRG won't be going anywhere), and the same can be said for the P1 teams. And really, to all of you crying foul over the loss of P1, remember that the ALMS seems to be the only other racing series in the world that supported it outside of the WEC. It's a dying breed when it comes to regional racing. So what good teams are we really losing from the ALMS?


EDIT: Also, the two P1 teams (Not counting Deltawing) were going to have to buy new race cars next year anyways, and GTC can sell their race cars quite easily, since they're Porsche GT3 Cup cars. If you asked a Grand Am team to sell the GA-Spec Porsche they had invested $450,000 USD into, you'd get the response "To who?". The point is, the common specs that ALMS uses allows their cars to come and go easier than Grand-Am's, so it's easier for them to ask to change.

Why would it be easier to ask ALMS change, due to GA's asinine GT program?

I agree with you about the P1 stuff, that really isn't my issue just like the tires being made by Continental weren't a big deal to me either. F1 isn't regional based so why should P1.

It does, but it's not nearly as much of an influence as everyone seems to be making it out to be. Grand-Am, in my mind, grew to be the way it was because you couldn't feasibly have two racing series in the same country racing the same cars for different organization bodies at the level IMSA and Grand-Am were, so Grand-Am implemented cost-effective formulas for American teams since IMSA already had the European racing cars segment cornered off.

And I'll find my source articles if you can find me source articles saying NASCAR is actively developing the series around Stock-Car racing interests. The only connection NASCAR has is that they share some employees.

When did I say they were developing it around Stock-car racing interests, I don't see any oval tracks on the Calender. As for the cost topic, even if a team can't run ALMS and Grand Am Rolex most of the top teams in GA are heavily involved in NASCAR and some in IZOD. So I find it hard to see cost being a massive issue to why they didn't want to join ALMS. Especially when the cost of running a NASCAR team is far more expensive than running a GA or ALMS team over a season.

Anyways what would you like me to get you on NASCAR exactly?

So the WEC and other major FIA/ACO series visit all of the other F1 tracks too?

Not all in a season, WEC uses all FIA F1 run tracks or FIA F1 Grade (Fuji) with the only non-F1 track obviously being La Sarthe. V8 Supercars doesn't run nearly on as many but does have Austin and did run Yas Marina, but it's obvious why V8 doesn't go to many other tracks yet.

Ultimately, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. I never suggested the WEC would decline, only that it would expand. I said WEC teams would decline in participating in events outside of the WEC's schedule (like Sebring and Petit Le Mans) if the Series' schedule expanded. If Audi, Toyota and Rebellion have the budget for extra-curricular activities like that, then they could easily agree to more official races... at the cost of extra-curricular activities. [/QUOTE]

The way you wrote it out was a bit hard to understand and thus I was just trying to get a more clear response, which I understand now.

Ultimately, Sebring and Petit Le Mans will live on and the racing will continue to be good, even if the Europeans stopped coming here (since they were probably going to stop coming here with or without this merger, which might explain why the merger happened in the first place).

I don't know how you can assure that, it could be like Indy cars from recent years past. Also why would the Europeans have stopped coming here if this joint effort never happened?
 
What if the Continental spec tires were another method of cost-capping? What if they're like $200 less per set?

That wouldn't be bad...
 
What if the Continental spec tires were another method of cost-capping? What if they're like $200 less per set?

That wouldn't be bad...

Even if they weren't what is so bad about the tires to begin with, I don't understand why people (not you) don't want to see them.
 
Even if they weren't what is so bad about the tires to begin with, I don't understand why people (not you) don't want to see them.

I will admit I haven't followed all the rumors or anything as close as some but I just don't want to have issues with tires. I do like different tires ran as it allows different agendas for a race since not all the cars are completely equal and never will be which is perfectly fine (spec series are different).
 
I will admit I haven't followed all the rumors or anything as close as some but I just don't want to have issues with tires. I do like different tires ran as it allows different agendas for a race since not all the cars are completely equal and never will be which is perfectly fine (spec series are different).

I don't think it will be an issue Falken showed they could have success with Endurance racing, especially when they brought far superior rain tires. I think the tire situation will be fine, but we'll have to wait and see. I guess if they had gone Goodyear, then it'd just give us more ammo to say it's becoming NASCARs sport car series.
 
freshseth83
The wrong is when participants complain about the very type of racing they practice.

I don't know a single race team in the universe that is happy when their car is taken out... Argy bargy is part of why I like grand am better. Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of watching the "gloves are off have at it" where people are taking each other out and destroying cars. That's not cool; however, I do like seeing drivers unafraid to make a pass even if that means bumping the car next to him. If the contact is taken out of grand am, it's not the same.
 
"Big Ass-Post"

Snaeper you have some very good points. Perhaps my concerns are a little too much, but I suppose after the 2014 Rolex 24 Hours we can draw our conclusions, only then really.
 
So I did a bit of researching, and came up with what I believe is pretty accurate entry list for USCR in 2014. With such numbers, and the new pit box regulation of 22 feet, most tracks will hit/exceed their current pit lane capacity.

An * represents an unconfirmed but acknowledged entry. The car numbers are excluded as both sires share the same numbers in some cases.

P – Prototype (21 - 25)

- Team Ganassi – BMW Riley
- Picket Racing – HPD Honda*
- Dyson Racing – Lola Mazda
- Dyson Racing – Lola Mazda*
- ESM Patron – HPD Honda
- ESM Patron – HPD Honda
- Gainsco Racing – Corvette
- Action Express – Corvette DP
- Action Express – Corvette DP
- Level 5 Motorsports – HPD Honda
- Level 5 Motorsports – HPD Honda
- 8StarMotorsports – Corvette
- 8StarMotorsports – Corvette
- Starworks – BMW Riley
- Starworks – BMW Riley
- Michael Shank Racing – Ford Riley
- Michael Shank Racing – Ford Riley
- Wayne Taylor Racing – Corvette DP
- Team Sahlen – BMW Riley
- Team Sahlen – BMW Riley
- Doran Racing – Ford Dallara
- Spirit of Daytona Racing – Corvette DP
- Marsh Racing – Corvette DP*
- Delta Wing* (-)

PC – Prototype Challenge (7 - _)

- Bar1 Motorsports – ORECA
- Bar1 Motorsports – ORECA
- RSR Racing – ORECA
- Performance Tech Motorsports – ORECA
- PR1 Mathiasen Motorsports – ORECA
- Dragon Speed Mishumotors – ORECA
- CORE Autosport - ORECA

GT-LM – GT Le-mans (10 - 13)

- Corvette Racing – Corvette C7R
- Corvette Racing – Corvette C7R
- Team Falken Tire – Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
- Team West/AJR Boardwalk Ferrari – Ferrari F458 Italia
- Paul Miller Racing – Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
- BMW Team RLL – BMW Z4 GTE
- BMW Team RLL – BMW Z4 GTE
- SRT Motorsports – SRT Viper GTS-R
- SRT Motorsports – SRT Viper GTS-R
- CORE Autosport – Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
- TRG - Aston Martin Vantage GTE*
- TRG - Aston Martin Vantage GTE*
- Risi - Ferrari F458 Italia*

GT-D – GT Daytona (15 – 30)

- ESM Patron – Ferrari 458
- Rum Bum Racing – Audi R8*
- Burton Racing – Porsche 911 GT3*
- Muehlner Motorsports America – Porsche 911 GT3
- Alex Job Racing – Porsche GT3
- Alex Job Racing – Audi R8*
- Magnus Racing – Porsche GT3
- JDX Racing – Porsche 911 GT3
- Dempsey Del Piero Racing – Porsche 911 GT3
- NGT Motorsports – Porsche 911 GT3
- APR Motorsports – Audi R8*
- APR Motorsports – Audi R8*
- Riley Technologies – Viper GT3*
- AF Waltrip – Ferrari 458 RK Motors
- Brumos Racing – Porsche 911 GT3*
- R. Ferri/Aim Autosport – Ferrari 458
- Aim Autosport Team FXDD – Ferrari 458
- Scuderia Corsa – Ferrari 458
- Flying Lizard Motorsports – Porsche 911 GT3*
- Flying Lizard Motorsports – Porsche 911 GT3*
- TRG – Porsche 911 GT3*
- TRG – Porsche 911 GT3*
- Park Place Motorsports – Porsche 911 GT3
- Tuner Motorsports – BMW M3*
- Tuner Motorsports – BMW M3*
- Black Swan Racing – Mercedes SLS GT3*
- Fall Line Motorsports – Audi R8
- Audi Customer Racing – Audi R8 (4)*
- Speedsource/Mazdaspeed – Mazda 6
- Speedsource/Mazdaspeed – Mazda 6

(Total car count, 54 – 77 cars estimated per race)
 
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I agree with you that Don Panoz gave up on this but GA really hasn't made much to keep any image of ALMS.

They haven't tried to keep much of an image of the Rolex Sports Car Series, either.

Once again, that doesn't discount what I just said about what development actually is compared to actual developmental formulas like LMP1 and F1. Alex Job also said that they hadn't done very much development the year prior and that cost them and it didn't seem they were willing to really make an effort when they realized they needed to actually test and develop a car to be successful like any team. ALMS gave them a massive break with weight to help them out even...

You're the only one comparing them to P1 and F1. I'm comparing ALMS GTE cars to Grand-Am and GT3 cars. And you then go on to say the exact reason why GTE teams want to finish in front of GT3 teams, because if any of them drive an under-developed car, they're going to be slower than the Pro-Am class of cars (if they were full GT3 spec).

Why would it be easier to ask ALMS change, due to GA's asinine GT program?

You answered your own question.


When did I say they were developing it around Stock-car racing interests

You didn't, please understand that most of my posts up until now have been directed in a general direction, not at you. And that has nothing to do with oval tracks being on the calendar.

As for the cost topic, even if a team can't run ALMS and Grand Am Rolex most of the top teams in GA are heavily involved in NASCAR and some in IZOD. So I find it hard to see cost being a massive issue to why they didn't want to join ALMS. Especially when the cost of running a NASCAR team is far more expensive than running a GA or ALMS team over a season.

By "teams" you mean Chip Ganassi racing. And the cost-effective racing formula by Grand-Am I mentioned refers to the fact that they would want to have different cars than another racing series, but since they're only racing in one series, the cars need to be cheaper, since the volume would be lower. ALMS teams are buying cars that are raced around the world, and thus can afford to be more expensive, since that's how they get their volume.

Also as stated in a recent interview with Michael Andretti big teams like that only venture into Sports Car racing when they have money backing them. Lexus and Ganassi's sponsors found Grand-Am to be the better fit, so he went and raced there. Now he's running BMW's and he's still getting a good deal of financial backing to continue there. No NASCAR or IndyCar or even Sports Car team makes decisions like running in the big classes without having serious money behind the program. Because if you think it's cheap running in just one, imagine the costs involved in running in two or three?


The way you wrote it out was a bit hard to understand and thus I was just trying to get a more clear response, which I understand now.

I feel like this has been the trend for this entire conversation we've been having.

I don't know how you can assure that, it could be like Indy cars from recent years past. Also why would the Europeans have stopped coming here if this joint effort never happened?

I didn't. Allow me to personify this hypothetical: WEC approaches ALMS with his head hung low, speaking softly he says, "Hey ALMS, I'm sorry but we can't keep sharing an event with ALMS at Sebring you have too much stuff and I have too much stuff, so I need to move out and into my own place, sorry dude." And so ALMS said "Well I can't pay the rent without WEC living with me, I need to go find a new roommate!"

Remember that they had already stopped going to Petit Le Mans, and Sebring was absolutely packed for the one year they both ran there. ALMS, of course, liked seeing 64 cars on the track, but I imagine WEC started wondering what would happen if they had more people show up to race.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And Sam, that's not too bad of an entry list, but I believe Dempsey is done with Prototype racing for now, and he might even be considering a move to WEC, if he decides it's best. So I put some asterisks next to his GT entries as well. Also, TRG-AMR plans on running in the GTE as far as I know (Even Turner motorsports is considering running in GTE)


P – Prototype (21 - 26)

- Team Ganassi – BMW Riley
- Team Ganassi – BMW Riley
- Picket Racing – HPD Honda*
- Dyson Racing – Lola Mazda
- Dyson Racing – Lola Mazda*
- ESM Patron – HPD Honda
- ESM Patron – HPD Honda
- Gainsco Racing – Corvette
- Action Express – Corvette DP
- Action Express – Corvette DP
- Level 5 Motorsports – HPD Honda
- Level 5 Motorsports – HPD Honda
- 8StarMotorsports – Corvette
- 8StarMotorsports – Corvette
- Starworks – BMW Riley
- Starworks – BMW Riley
- Michael Shank Racing – Ford Riley
- Michael Shank Racing – Ford Riley
- Wayne Taylor Racing – Corvette DP
- Team Sahlen – BMW Riley
- Team Sahlen – BMW Riley
- Doran Racing – Ford Dallara
- Spirit of Daytona Racing – Corvette DP
- Marsh Racing – Corvette DP*
- Delta Wing* (-)


PC – Prototype Challenge (7 - _)

- Bar1 Motorsports – ORECA
- Bar1 Motorsports – ORECA
- RSR Racing – ORECA
- Performance Tech Motorsports – ORECA
- PR1 Mathiasen Motorsports – ORECA
- Dragon Speed Mishumotors – ORECA
- CORE Autosport - ORECA
- Starworks - ORECA*


GT-LM – GT Le-mans (10 - __)

- Corvette Racing – Corvette C7R
- Corvette Racing – Corvette C7R
- Team Falken Tire – Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
- Team West/AJR Boardwalk Ferrari – Ferrari F458 Italia
- Paul Miller Racing – Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
- BMW Team RLL – BMW Z4 GTE
- BMW Team RLL – BMW Z4 GTE
- SRT Motorsports – SRT Viper GTS-R
- SRT Motorsports – SRT Viper GTS-R
- CORE Autosport – Porsche 911 GT3 RSR
- TRG-AMR - Aston Martin Vantage GTE*


GT-D – GT Daytona (16 – 34)

- ESM Patron – Ferrari 458*
- Rum Bum Racing – Audi R8*
- Burton Racing – Porsche 911 GT3*
- Muehlner Motorsports America – Porsche 911 GT3
- Alex Job Racing – Porsche GT3
- Alex Job Racing – Audi R8*
- Magnus Racing – Porsche GT3
- JDX Racing – Porsche 911 GT3*
- Dempsey Del Piero Racing – Porsche 911 GT3*
- NGT Motorsports – Porsche 911 GT3*
- APR Motorsports – Audi R8*
- APR Motorsports – Audi R8*
- Riley Technologies – Viper GT3*
- AF Waltrip – Ferrari 458 RK Motors*
- Stevenson Motorsports – Camaro GT.R*
- Brumos Racing – Porsche 911 GT3
- R. Ferri/Aim Autosport – Ferrari 458
- Aim Autosport Team FXDD – Ferrari 458
- Scuderia Corsa – Ferrari 458
- Flying Lizard Motorsports – Porsche 911 GT3*
- Flying Lizard Motorsports – Porsche 911 GT3*
- TRG – Porsche 911 GT3*
- TRG – Porsche 911 GT3*
- TRG – Aston Martin GT3*
- TRG – Aston Martin GT3*
- Park Place Motorsports – Porsche 911 GT3
- Tuner Motorsports – BMW M3*
- Tuner Motorsports – BMW M3*
- Black Swan Racing – Mercedes SLS GT3*
- Fall Line Motorsports – Audi R8
- Audi Customer Racing – Audi R8 (4)*
- BGB Motorsports – Porsche Cayman
- Speedsource/Mazdaspeed – Mazda 6
- Speedsource/Mazdaspeed – Mazda 6
 
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I think you're missing that Ganassi doesn't always run 2 cars, along with a few of the other teams that don't always run (Doran, the AJR Audi, etc) I doubt if we'll see the Muscle Milk HPD.
 
Snaeper you have some very good points. Perhaps my concerns are a little too much, but I suppose after the 2014 Rolex 24 Hours we can draw our conclusions, only then really.

Or at least until they finalize everything (which may be after that first race! who knows). I would still wait until after the first three events, since Daytona and Sebring are going to be a bit of a pressure cooker, since you'll be kicking off a new series at two of America's oldest and greatest Endurance events. Things will go wrong, plenty of things will go wrong. Hell, I'm willing to bet that the first half of the season is absolutely manic. Just look at Audi! That was just one car who in their debut at Daytona, did a terrible job. Next year swings around and they almost sweep the podium.

I'm gonna wait for the season to settle in a bit before making any guesses.

I will admit I haven't followed all the rumors or anything as close as some but I just don't want to have issues with tires. I do like different tires ran as it allows different agendas for a race since not all the cars are completely equal and never will be which is perfectly fine (spec series are different).

The only class that had different tires within the class was GTE. P2 cars are going from everyone using Michelin, to everyone using Continental, again, not a drastic departure since everyone will be on Continentals.

And the Deltawing has plenty of other issues to work out before we can even worry about what tires it's running.
 
If we keep these entry lists up long enough, we'll be at 200 cars in each class :lol: My class numbers are a little less than you guys, but I'm only counting full season entries

P: 19-23
Pc: 6-11
Gtlm: 8-14
Gtd: 13-30 (no clue on this one depending on how close to gt3)
 
Connor, you lie! Your total car count maximum possibility (78 cars) exceeds that suggested by Sam48 by a car. You say "My class numbers are a little less than you guys, but I'm only counting full season entries" but that's so wrong, your absolute high number is higher than that put forth by Sam. :lol:

Are you on Facebook? If so, I'll continue discrediting and disproving everything you say there, too.
 
Are you on Facebook? If so, I'll continue discrediting and disproving everything you say there, too.

Thats very constructive towards the thread isn't it?

Honestly, I see DP's taking over the top division. GT's though might actually flourish.
 
Yes, a little bit of humour is always constructive when everyone's being really serious.

Anyways, if the ACO ever let DP in to Le Mans, would I be the only one more interested in watching DP than LMP1 and LMP2 put together?
 
Yes, a little bit of humour is always constructive when everyone's being really serious.

Anyways, if the ACO ever let DP in to Le Mans, would I be the only one more interested in watching DP than LMP1 and LMP2 put together?

When LMP1 in the next few years has Dome, Rebellion, ORECA, Audi, Porsche, and maybe BMW and Ferrari with a strong cast of 20+ LMP2 cars then yes you are the only one.
 
Furinkazen
When LMP1 in the next few years has Dome, Rebellion, ORECA, Audi, Porsche, and maybe BMW and Ferrari with a strong cast of 20+ LMP2 cars then yes you are the only one.

Yea DP in Le Mans is completely impossible unless it it brought to Europe in a regional series.
 
But... I like the way DP cars look. Especially Ryan Dalziel's. We won't get into that [redhead] here.


I don't follow LMP1 or LMP2 much, because I care more about what the drivers offer (pace, consistency, fuel-saving-abilities) and less about the technological improvements. DRS and KERS in Formule One, Push-to-pass in Indy cars... It's spreading.

The fake sort of racing, I find, is relatively boring. If I want to watch a race, I want to watch the drivers and teams use their time at the track or on-the-track to gain time and track position. Otherwise, it's just a 200+ mp/h parade. Woo-hoo? Naaah.
 
But... I like the way DP cars look. Especially Ryan Dalziel's. We won't get into that [redhead] here.


I don't follow LMP1 or LMP2 much, because I care more about what the drivers offer (pace, consistency, fuel-saving-abilities) and less about the technological improvements. DRS and KERS in Formule One, Push-to-pass in Indy cars... It's spreading.

The fake sort of racing, I find, is relatively boring. If I want to watch a race, I want to watch the drivers and teams use their time at the track or on-the-track to gain time and track position. Otherwise, it's just a 200+ mp/h parade. Woo-hoo? Naaah.

LMP has no DRS. Kers is only used in LMP1 on hybrid cars. LMP1's use technology that filters down to road cars.
 
Plus on the LMP1 cars KERS is a lot more restricted and used in different ways. Plus what is the point of developing hybrid cars and not give them something extra in the power department?
 
So, KERS will trickle down to street cars? And what good will that do? Street racers will be faster? :rolleyes:Edit: FIA is calling the shots in LMP1 for WEC. How long 'til DRS?
 
So, KERS will trickle down to street cars? And what good will that do? Street racers will be faster? :rolleyes:

Audi develop the headlight technology to make there road cars safer in there cars. The "E-Tron" technology has also started to have filtered down to the road range.
 

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