ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
"Typical denial." If development costs are left out of the budget, you're in denial.
2014 United Sports Car Championship
- Thread starter Earth
- 6,133 comments
- 266,461 views
- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
That may be, but perhaps you should consider having a bit of tact...
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
Seth hates cnd01, polarbear345 and me. It's all from racing series. He thought he had the god-given right to shove through people, and he didn't.
- 3,585
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
I'm pretty sure he hates RACECAR and I, too.
- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
The list is bigger I know.
Anyway Seth, if you posted and explained things clearly in first place, we would go a long way to cutting some of this crap out.
Anyway Seth, if you posted and explained things clearly in first place, we would go a long way to cutting some of this crap out.
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
Not really. He's overlooking the development costs, and entirely refuting their existence. That seems like the entirely wrong thing to do.
- 9,387
- Pittsburgh
- polarbear345
I think the 20,000,000 included those. Any good planning company would account for development in their budget.
Seth does have good points. It's just hard to see them because he's brutal about saying them.
- 7,938
- LMSCorvetteGT2's Mom's House
- GTP_LancerEvo7
If you want to hold a grudge from a game, keep it in the game and don't bring it to these discussions. Play the arguement, not the person. We know you don't like Seth.
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
No. Thing is, I'm explaining why Seth hates everyone.
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
If I had a dollar for every time Seth told someone that he/she was wrong, I would buy Imsa and let us figure it out for real
Seth is right that it does cost more than 200K for a DP, but I didn't claim it as fact either when I said it like seth inevitably does. I knew I couldn't back myself up. It is still very expensive to race a DP though. Peter Baron says that it's upwards of $750,000 just for the Rolex 24 and the test involved a month prior. It still takes lots of money. No doubts about it.
Seth is right that it does cost more than 200K for a DP, but I didn't claim it as fact either when I said it like seth inevitably does. I knew I couldn't back myself up. It is still very expensive to race a DP though. Peter Baron says that it's upwards of $750,000 just for the Rolex 24 and the test involved a month prior. It still takes lots of money. No doubts about it.
- 9,387
- Pittsburgh
- polarbear345
I don't think Seth hates me....
OT(ish):
While watching the Indycar race at mid Ohio, I noticed many more people there than when I was there (Grand am)
I started at the keyhole, and it was almost empty, Indycar had it pretty full.
I thought that there were a lot of people in the esses at grand am, but Indycar blew it out of the water!
Could it be that Indycar has a regular length "major" event? The Indy 500 is much easier to watch than the 24 hours of Daytona, maybe that has something to do with it? This year's Indy 500 was awesome to be at, and watch on TV once I got home.
The ending of the Daytona race was great, but was it too long of a race for people to feel engaged?
OT(ish):
While watching the Indycar race at mid Ohio, I noticed many more people there than when I was there (Grand am)
I started at the keyhole, and it was almost empty, Indycar had it pretty full.
I thought that there were a lot of people in the esses at grand am, but Indycar blew it out of the water!
Could it be that Indycar has a regular length "major" event? The Indy 500 is much easier to watch than the 24 hours of Daytona, maybe that has something to do with it? This year's Indy 500 was awesome to be at, and watch on TV once I got home.
The ending of the Daytona race was great, but was it too long of a race for people to feel engaged?
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
freshseth83
(Banned)
- 8,246
- freshseth83
This is going to be fun. So let me address the critique one by one...
Your assumptions are baseless. BMW had the biggest hand in steering DTM the way it is today. You're ignoring the obvious as well. The quoted figure is their budget for 2012. This was a reply to cnd's statement that DP costs are a tenth of DTM's. Basically what I'm saying here is they were the beneficiaries of the new ruleset because it was conditional to their (RE)entry! That means they had the car made and ready from the jump. Imagine that, a series with rules almost all to your asking. You're reaching if you think their investment is not included in their first year budget.
Na, I like the way I talk. People just need to read it for what it is, not look at it like I'm "out to get you".
lol, still living in the past? Give it a rest. I've moved on to mostly lag free racing and almost no one has any issues.
Who're you? I don't know you to hate you. I just don't agree with you. And I'll let it be known.
Sometimes people can't 'stomach' the truth, that's when you have to let them 'digest' that 'food' you just fed them.
Already addressed this. And for a guy who 'follows' DTM, I shouldn't have to explain the investment BMW made in it. If I do, well I guess you really don't 'follow' DTM.
You gotta get the message across, but the crowd here doesn't seem to get it when you explain things. Hell, guys even deny the links they ask for!
You'd be rich with the amount of times you're wrong!If I had a dollar for every time Seth told someone that he/she was wrong, I would buy Imsa and let us figure it out for real
What? Don't backtrack now. You're the main culprit behind the false information of 'DP is cheaper so it works better because other types of cars are too expensive'.
See, the truth don't hurt!
Last edited:
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
freshseth83This is going to be fun. So let me address the critique one by one...
Your assumptions are baseless. BMW had the biggest hand in steering DTM the way it is today. You're ignoring the obvious as well. The quoted figure is their budget for 2012. This was a reply to cnd's statement that DP costs are a tenth of DTM's. Basically what I'm saying here is they were the beneficiaries of the new ruleset because it was conditional to their (RE)entry! That means they had the car made and ready from the jump. Imagine that, a series with rules almost all to your asking. You're reaching if you think their investment is not included in their first year budget.
Na, I like the way I talk. People just need to read it for what it is, not look at it like I'm "out to get you".
lol, still living in the past? Give it a rest. I've moved on to mostly lag free racing and almost no one has any issues.
Who're you? I don't know you to hate you. I just don't agree with you. And I'll let it be known.
Sometimes people can't 'stomach' the truth, that's when you have to let them 'digest' that 'food' you just fed them.
Already addressed this. And for a guy who 'follows' DTM, I shouldn't have to explain the investment BMW made in it. If I do, well I guess you really don't 'follow' DTM.
You gotta get the message across, but the crowd here doesn't seem to get it when you explain things. Hell, guys even deny the links they ask for!
You'd be rich with the amount of times you're wrong!
What? Don't backtrack now. You're the main culprit behind the false information of 'DP is cheaper so it works better because other types of cars are too expensive'.
See, the truth don't hurt!
It's much easier to say that you're right rather than explain why I am...
You do have some valid points all jokes aside. I do like dtm and super gt, but I still prefer DP
freshseth83
(Banned)
- 8,246
- freshseth83
Wheres he at in the standings? I question that "investment".Joey Hand?
What is a DP? A car with a single shape, a single tire, and a single package. Do you really like staring at the same car? I prefer diversity and different aero solutions with different engines with different cars run by different types of teams with different manufacturers and different shapes. DTM is basically spec but has 3 differently shaped cars. SuperGT 500 next year will be almost the same except they have tires thatre about 3 seconds faster than ones used by FIA GT1 cars from the mid-late 2000's. Why aren't they bankrupt? Their cars are not hugely expensive, the DTM drivers' salaries are probably a good deal higher than the cost of the car. The reasons you listed through this tbread for your support of DP is its simplicity and low cost. There are other cars racing that're not much more in cost, a lot faster, and are inexpensive in comparison. So DP as it is really isnt unique in that it does something different that keeps it healthy. In fact it would seem the opposite to me.
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
It's obvious that DTM isn't having problems nor ever will as long as it stays as is because they have 3 major car manufacturers from Germany all dumping roughly 20 mil into the series each with 6 car teams. Plus, all 3 of those manufacturers are in an area(Germany)that's pretty much the size of the state of Missouri. Imagine how many people would be able to attend both the ALMS and Grand am when 75% of the races are within a few hundred miles. Germany and Japan also don't have NASCAR to compete against or American football unless that smashing successful NFL Europe league is still around. When we stop and think, the USA is such a large country compared to all the countries in Europe. Also, I'm very surprised how much you seem to like DTM that has all that argy-bargy you hate on grand am about 👎
BTW: The DP could have (pending on how many rumors are actually true) 5 or 6 different shapes next season. They already have 2 different shapes if you paid any attention to the series.
If what I think happens does happen, DP will become a low cost GTP which is a great thought.
- 7,594
- Ontario,Canada
- macospet1
- My What?
I'll bite, (even though this has nothing to do with the USCR) it's what? His 2nd year in DTM and last year wasn't even full time, so give the guy a break.
- 9,387
- Pittsburgh
- polarbear345
freshseth83
(Banned)
- 8,246
- freshseth83
You're not getting the point. I don't 'like' DTM. And DP has more to worry about than just the shapes of their cars. DTM isn't secluded to Germany either, forgot about that, huh? Russia, Austria, Spain, Great Britain and the Netherlands. Oh, plus they're headed to China. You rave about how DP is so great because its so cheap and close racing, and pretend that they're so successful. But they're not
I just wonder what state of mind are you and others in when you claim these things! If they were so great before or now, why are they talking to DTM and SuperGT? Why do they want an ACO/LeMans connection if, like you said, Daytona is an equal or better 24 hour race (thats among the funniest things Ive ever seen btw
)? Every series needs to expand its horizons to survive. I hope you realize this when DP is gone in the future, its not a viable product for the scale type of series USCR wants to be.Thats nice. Good for him. It was merely a rhetoric question in relation to the investment BMW put into DTM, don't really care for BMW or Hand tbh.
Last edited by a moderator:
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
Why does the double poster have to roll right through my puns without even noticing them?
You, Seth, mentioned "BMW" and "hand" in the same sentence. I mentioned Joey Hand as a pun. Calm down, dude. Caaaaalllllmmmm dooooowwwwnn. Yoga time, Mr. "Fresh white like bread."
DTM: I really love touring cars. DTM isn't touring cars, but, two Canadians in contention for race wins and championships? I love it!
Super GT: what's that? The reason no one's ever heard of it, is because its races aren't broadcast pretty much anywhere. They're the ones who will gain the most when DTM and Super GT join.
Daytona Prototurtle: Such a graceful looking race car. I love the way it "dances" through Museum Bend at Barber. I also like that it's a much safer prototype. Seriously, I watch racing to watch racing. I jump up and down when I see a cool pass. I cuss and swear when people crash after a good race. But, I feel gutted when someone is killed. I don't trust open-cockpit cars, they don't seem safe enough. Therefore, I love DP. It seems safe. No one's ever been killed in Grand-Am racing, AFAIK. That's a pretty awesome safety record. It's something like 500 people fewer than have been killed in Le Mans and World Sportscar Challenge (back when the cars from Le Mans, Group C, etc) competition.
Therefore, yes, I like DP. You can't argue the safety record, Seth, no matter how much you say you don't care about driver's safety.
You, Seth, mentioned "BMW" and "hand" in the same sentence.
I mentioned Joey Hand as a pun. Calm down, dude. Caaaaalllllmmmm dooooowwwwnn. Yoga time, Mr. "Fresh white like bread." DTM: I really love touring cars. DTM isn't touring cars, but, two Canadians in contention for race wins and championships? I love it!
Super GT: what's that? The reason no one's ever heard of it, is because its races aren't broadcast pretty much anywhere. They're the ones who will gain the most when DTM and Super GT join.
Daytona Prototurtle: Such a graceful looking race car. I love the way it "dances" through Museum Bend at Barber. I also like that it's a much safer prototype. Seriously, I watch racing to watch racing. I jump up and down when I see a cool pass. I cuss and swear when people crash after a good race. But, I feel gutted when someone is killed. I don't trust open-cockpit cars, they don't seem safe enough. Therefore, I love DP. It seems safe. No one's ever been killed in Grand-Am racing, AFAIK. That's a pretty awesome safety record. It's something like 500 people fewer than have been killed in Le Mans and World Sportscar Challenge (back when the cars from Le Mans, Group C, etc) competition.
Therefore, yes, I like DP. You can't argue the safety record, Seth, no matter how much you say you don't care about driver's safety.
- 7,938
- LMSCorvetteGT2's Mom's House
- GTP_LancerEvo7
And note that Rolex used LMPs for the first couple years. Open-cockpit ones to boot.
- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
