◆ SNAIL [GT1 Championship] Series

[chuyler1]

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I went 10/7/7 on RH/RM/RM to avoid having a lap where I lose control and miss all my marks. However, the main issue is that I'm just off pace. I don't know if its my driving or the car or my internet connection. If someone could watch the replay and see where I can shave time that would help greatly. I could even send you my tune if you want to run some laps at Silverstone in the Mustang and see if you can better my times or improve the tune. Last season I was much closer to the overall pace of the races and even had some decent finishes. This season I'm just bringing up the rear with very little action on track after the first lap or two. The only excitement for me was holding up drivers when I was on worn tires and they were fresh out of the pits.

 

[Whitey093]

Well i went from champion last season to outside the top 5 this season. The bar is higher now. I tested the mustang at silverstone with my own tune tuesday and was in the 5's on mediums. The front end just pushes relentlessly and becomes unbearable once the tires start to wear down.

In the past i could run a conservative pace and stay near the front, but this season you really have to be on the edge to compete. I have a really capable car but am not getting the most out of it at the moment so i am having to start exploring the limits. I feel like i will be a better driver after this season with how much we are pushing to keep the leaders in sight.

 

[Spirit]

If I can find some time this week/weekend I'll buy a Mustang and see what I can do to it. I'll run it at Silverstone and at Brands to compare to my own times at both tracks in the Mercedes.

 

[chuyler1]

Thanks Bambi! If you're lost on the tune I can provide you with mine as a starting point. Send me a PM if you need it.

The Mustang actually felt pretty decent at Brands Hatch after a few laps last night but a comfortable lap most likely isn't a fast lap. The understeer is bad in turn 1 because trail braking just cooks the front tires. I do know that with spec racing I'm a good 1 second off pace compared to most Division 1 SNAIL drivers and about on par with Division 2 if I put a few hours of lap time into the weekly combos...so there's a margin for some error that I'd expect to see with the really fast drivers. But when they claim they lost 17 seconds due to an incident and I was no where close to them on the track...I question how much of my issue is car vs tune vs skill. If someone tells me...yeah, it's just skill, then I'll focus on driving line and less on tune.

 

[Ph1sh]

Thanks Bambi! If you're lost on the tune I can provide you with mine as a starting point. Send me a PM if you need it.

The Mustang actually felt pretty decent at Brands Hatch after a few laps last night but a comfortable lap most likely isn't a fast lap. The understeer is bad in turn 1 because trail braking just cooks the front tires. I do know that with spec racing I'm a good 1 second off pace compared to most Division 1 SNAIL drivers and about on par with Division 2 if I put a few hours of lap time into the weekly combos...so there's a margin for some error that I'd expect to see with the really fast drivers. But when they claim they lost 17 seconds due to an incident and I was no where close to them on the track...I question how much of my issue is car vs tune vs skill. If someone tells me...yeah, it's just skill, then I'll focus on driving line and less on tune.

I'll get in the mustang as well and help you out as much as possible. Pm me your tune and I'll make some minor adjustments maybe to see if I can make it faster / and will provide tips to drive the track properly..fastest way possible. I'm guessing that mustang feels really heavy. I might have some time this afternoon before work so I'll rip a few laps for you!

 

[chuyler1]

It pushes all its weight to the front outside tire and it will go red before it feels like it should. That's even with 197kg pushed to the rear. I found time at Silverstone by going way stiffer than in the past and I was able to rotate out of the corners with some LSD tuning. But corner entry it still plows. I can send the settings tonight when I'm home.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

Hang onto your butts, We have an IR regarding yesterday. Scoring will be late as it is a big one.

 

[Whitey093]

Ive been hanging on to my butt for an entire day. Whats the situation?

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

Ive been hanging on to my butt for an entire day. Whats the situation?

OB infractions I have to watch the entire race a bunch of times plus when i get to the infraction I have to insure that it is an actual OB.

 

[TEX36]

Well, slow progress ..... I start Cardiac Rehab on Tuesday. Might get my life back in a couple of weeks.
Expect to be on a steep learning curve when I pull out of the Pits again.

 

[Whitey093]

Glad to hear your recovery is coming along Tex! Will be great to have you back on track.

 

[Scorpion0001]

don't sweat it Tex. in about 6 months you'll feel as right as rain. Trust me I know, it takes a long time but rehab is totally worth every hour spent... just remember to take your time it's not a race.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

Next season I am thinking of going to time penalties add to your final time thoughts?

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

@Scorpion0001 you got screwed on your first pit stop! they didn't release you because @chuyler1 was coming down pit road

 

[lllTrick]

Next season I am thinking of going to time penalties add to your final time thoughts?

Discussing the pros and cons If this consideration...

What's are the motives for this change?

My concern with time added is that sometimes a person goes oob by just a small amount. With timed penalties it would be black and white oob by an inch bang! Penalty oob by 3 metres bang penalty. Clearly one of these examples doesn't warrant a time penalty.

 

[Spirit]

Yes I'm in agreement with Trick. Minuscule infractions shouldn't really have that kind of potency.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

I don't ding for minor infractions although the OLR does allow me too. And even like now proper lifting would negate a penalty.
It's more of an incentive to both report and avoid penalties.

Examples would be 2 sec per off
5 seconds for pit exit violations.
All cut in half for self reporting

With how penalties are handed out right now only the person committing the violations gets ding while the people behind him get no real incentive to report the violation.

Time penalties would move people up in position.

 

[lllTrick]

I don't ding for minor infractions although the OLR does allow me too. And even like now proper lifting would negate a penalty.
It's more of an incentive to both report and avoid penalties.

Examples would be 2 sec per off
5 seconds for pit exit violations.
All cut in half for self reporting

With how penalties are handed out right now only the person committing the violations gets ding while the people behind him get no real incentive to report the violation.

Time penalties would move people up in position.

I'm not against it ( time added) provided it's specific and clear.

"Proper lifting" what does that mean? I always thought that if you go wide by a little bit. That any lifting even 50% would be enough to negate any advantage. After all, isn't that the point? Going oob happens as long as the person doing it doesn't benifit who cares if they go oob. Is "proper lifting" specified in the OLR. If it isn't then how can someone be held liable if they lift and the rules only specify that a lift is needed. Not neccessarily a "proper lift"


Birdie:

With how penalties are handed out right now only the person committing the violations gets ding while the people behind him get no real incentive to report the violation.

Reporting a oob for time added or for pts taken off wouldn't seem to effect incentive either way. I don't understand this point made here.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

I'm not against it ( time added) provided it's specific and clear.

"Proper lifting" what does that mean? I always thought that if you go wide by a little bit. That any lifting even 50% would be enough to negate any advantage. After all, isn't that the point? Going oob happens as long as the person doing it doesn't benifit who cares if they go oob. Is "proper lifting" specified in the OLR. If it isn't then how can someone be held liable if they lift and the rules only specify that a lift is needed. Not neccessarily a "proper lift"


Birdie:


Reporting a oob for time added or for pts taken off wouldn't seem to effect incentive either way. I don't understand this point made here.

I will do an example up when I do scoring To show how it would be an incentive using this weeks race. But it would make a huge difference to back markers or for tight races like you, scorpion, racingline, and phisher had.

A proper lift is a full off. 50% can be viewed as a gear shift if the reviewer isn't paying close enough attention.

Not that you would have anything to worry about I just reviewed your race and you didn't even come close to an off.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

Or there is always section 14 D of the OLR @lllTrick but hitting breaks for an OB on a fast turn just seems a little much.

 

[chuyler1]

When it comes to OOB, I don't really care unless it's a race changer, like someone running wide lap after lap or cutting a corner to gain a draft and close in on another driver late in the race. The rules are there to force drivers to learn the proper line around the track. After 50 minutes of racing, one single OOB shouldn't change the result of the race. It's really hard to gauge corners with such escalated tire wear. I just wish the game did a better job of self policing OOB racing by causing more spin-outs or scrubbing speed by ending up in the marbles.

 

[lllTrick]

I will do an example up when I do scoring To show how it would be an incentive using this weeks race. But it would make a huge difference to back markers or for tight races like you, scorpion, racingline, and phisher had.

A proper lift is a full off. 50% can be viewed as a gear shift if the reviewer isn't paying close enough attention.

Not that you would have anything to worry about I just reviewed your race and you didn't even come close to an off.

I just want to make sure of the rules & specifics regarding all of this. In the middle of a race if one does go wide. Hesitating on what you can and can't do could cost you. I try hard to keep it in the lines. But it does happen and because of this I think it's important to be informed and up to date. oob peanalites should never cost you a race. A horrible way to lose out. Imo

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

I just want to make sure of the rules & specifics regarding all of this. In the middle of a race if one does go wide. Hesitating on what you can and can't do could cost you. I try hard to keep it in the lines. But it does happen and because of this I think it's important to be informed and up to date. oob peanalites should never cost you a race. A horrible way to lose out. Imo

And that is all up to the steward, the rules are vague in this respect but a partial lift is not a lift off the gas. I am looking at putting together a page of specific things that differ from the Snail OLR to our league.

Seeing as a "lift" isn't actually apart of the snail OLR and and off is an off whether it's an inch or a mile and "lifting off" to negate a penalty gets you know where. trust me, I know! I've done it and still got the penalty on a sunday night.

EDIT: As for an OOB costing someone a race an OOB would never cost anyone a race, consistent OOB should and should allow other people to advance past you. With the way scoring is done right now you can lose all your points for a night and the people behind you in the points get no advantage. which can cost them a season win.

 

[lllTrick]

I think that's a great idea. The snail Spec racing OLR is out dated and designed to allow a monkey to govern racing incidents. No true understanding or experience needed. It's also extremely biased towards the stewards allowing them to spitefully govern is so desired. As you can well imagine I'm not a fan of the broken system from it's written protocol right down to how its governed. I welcome any new thought and chance /update to rules of racing. I think a league like GT1 needs some updated rules/ regulations as there are some aspects specific to this league. Personally I think GT1 and members do a great job in keeping it clean. Most of the time you can count on a honest effort from all involved.

EDIT: As for an OOB costing someone a race an OOB would never cost anyone a race, consistent OOB should and should allow other people to advance past you. With the way scoring is done right now you can lose all your points for a night and the people behind you in the points get no advantage. which can cost them a season win./QUOTE]

really? i thought if you lost pts you would be allocated accordingly. So for example if you finished 3rd lost 4pt for some job or an IR. You would be moved down to 4th or 5th spot. And the racers in 4th or 5th would then move up. This is not the case?

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

No that is not the case. And with GT1's points system it makes a huge difference we only award points to the top 10 finishers with 1st getting 16 and 10th getting 1, the top 8 is a 2 point separation per position.

As for how the OLR is written in snail I'm ok with it, but there are thing within it that I disagree with (cones) and things that we have that the OLR doesn't like pit road exit boundaries and ways to negate a penalty.

EDIT: And unlike snail the steward (me) is also a racer in the room. So I can and have watched every racers race to pick apart every lap run by every racer.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

Scoring and penalties are in @Whitetail I can't review your race as it is almost impossible to determine what is a glitch and what is an off. However you got 3 points for our collision.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

So this is what I have so far it is in the first post anything people think should be added please PM me.


Rules contrary to the OLR:

"PIT ROAD CLOSED"
This will be written into the chat box when the head of the room is wanting to start the race. All participants are to not enter the tuning section of the lobby screen (the tach or the wrench) and to wait on track for the race to start. Exiting the track and entering either will result in a major penalty.

"HOUSE KEEPING" Things written after this in the chat box will be things pertinent to the race whether it's track boundaries/exceptions that have come up during the weeks practice. Watch for this as the stewards may be giving you a heads up of things they are watching for.

Pit road exit: you are to run out the entire marked exit while keeping 2 tires within the lines.

Cones: contrary to the SNAIL OLR killing cones will not result in a penalty.

To negate an out of bounds penalty you are required to execute a full and complete lift off the gas pedal at the safest possible moment. ("partial lifts" are not a proper demonstration of remorse)

Track concessions are a 50/50 chance of avoiding a penalty but will most certainly be taken into consideration when determining the severity of the penalty.

 

[Ph1sh]

Hmmm..alright here's my 2 cents on -11 for Silverstone.

1st off..of all the times that I went off by a "Tire Length" I let off to a certain percentage. Weather it was 70% 90% 100% but by doing that it removes your advantage by going wide ("by a Tire length") Right? I think so?

Keep in mind, before this new stuff was released above! We all stated lift when going off. As stated in the GTPlanet OLR


I've talked to drivers within this series and drivers Outside of this series and they think it's funny. A joke.

Now I think we all have to understand when you go wide on a corner..you either are pushing so hard that your actually Losing time by going wide. You can tell if your looking at your speed..its going down around a corner when your pushing too hard. So I went off a few times and I let off every time. It wasn't a complete lift but it was enough. If a car is side by side with me or even if the car is behind me. I go wide barely, lift 75% the car behind me is going to pass me there.

This is a great series but I'm sorry -11. What is this? By a "Tire length" and still lifted?

I'm not here to complain all I'm saying that this is very unfair as I was following the rules at the time at Silverstone.

If your going to continue to dock every time by a "Tire length" and drivers still lifting then I don't know..as I said I've talked to drivers in this series and outside this series..

Just my 2 cents

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

A lift is a lift. A professional dead lifter lifting 50%, 75% hell 90% doesn't get awarded for the attempt either.


Pit Etiquette:

All known pit exits marked with solid or broken blend lines are to be run out completely. You are not to cross any pit lines on exit until they run out.

You got a point per OOB and 3 for breaking the rule above which was and still is written in the first post.

 

[Storm_SP17]

A lift is a lift. A professional dead lifter lifting 50%, 75% hell 90% doesn't get awarded for the attempt either.


Pit Etiquette:

All known pit exits marked with solid or broken blend lines are to be run out completely. You are not to cross any pit lines on exit until they run out.

You got a point per OOB and 3 for breaking the rule above which was and still is written in the first post.

Did you just post weightlifting as a reference to Motorsport? Seriously?

Track limits can only be penalised when there is evidence that the car and driver in question gains an advantage from the track limit infringements under scrutiny.

If a driver lifts off the throttle enough for a sustained period, be it 50% and more for a number of seconds, a warning for persistent track limits can be applied but only that.

Another thing, and this goes for the psychological aspect of participating in these events... if you actively force people to lose points for going remotely over the edge in the manner this is done, what you get is people that get caught in a heated fight but can't risk pulling the extra 10th of pace because it may or may not lose them points due to a minor miscalculation, perhaps drag... perhaps braking...

This in itself promotes ultra timid racing... which is no way to race!