◆ SNAIL [GT1 Championship] Series
- Thread starter Die_Birdy_Die
- 4,476 comments
- 154,975 views
- Status
- 2,168
- Ocho Rios
- Marcus__Garvey
A couple of points; appropriately unsolicited. 
Yes, the chassis does 'wear' and change with miles. This is known. Different cars respond to chassis ageing differently, much like they do to "Rigidity Improvement" in the maintenance menu. In general(there are exceptions) as the chassis ages the car will become looser. This manifests itself as both a more neutral/loose balance at corner entry as well as general instability as the chassis ages. Not unlike Rigidity Improvement, this can be used as a 'tuning' aid, of sorts. For cars that are inherently tight/stable understeerey push monsters, as the chassis wears the car can actually pick up pace. Conversely, something inherently loose like a Lotus will often become more unwieldy, less precise, and eventually considerably more difficult to drive and hit your points as the chassis wears. Again, the effects are not unlike Rigidity Improvement in that the most significant change is a shift in balance and precision/input response. This wear is noticeable at mileages as low as 60-80 miles. As such, prior to my retirement from competition I would often replace a car at 100 miles or less, particularly for cars that are already loose and/or struggle to put power down. Of course, these effects are independent of suspension settings, etc; so in a series where tuning isn't restricted these changes may not necessarily be advantageous to utilise as a tuning aid, but rather can be a hindrance that must be tuned around. When you are limited to stock cars this can have a significant impact upon performance, on the order of half a second or more per minute on sensitive combos. Lotus RM at Monaco, etc come to mind where you have an already twitchy car on a course where precise car placement is paramount. With tuning prohibited stock cars, the setup is never ideal anyway so as the car wears it either gets better or worse(again, depending on whether it is already a loose or tight car); whereas with a tuning series you begin with your ideal(ideally(hahah)) setup. Accordingly, any changes whether that occur from chassis wear deviates the car's balance and behaviour from that ideal that you dialed in with your setup. Different challenges present.
As well, the room condition also directly affects grip/balance and correspondingly the resultant lap times are affected. This is also known and has been the case back to GT5. This is why not only different hosts and/or players in the room can impact the feel and pace of the car, as well as sometimes you just get a bogus room. I've turned several repeated laps in a combo online all within 1-2 tenths, only to hop into a different room and be 2+ seconds slower. Many times the entire room can feel the effects and everyone is slower, however different drivers can be impacted differently. Someone who tends to ride the limit for a greater percentage of their lap time, the room to room variances can be rather pronounced. Conversely, someone who rarely reaches the limits of the car may not necessarily notice the reduced peak limits. Certain tracks are/were more prone to inconsistencies than others, with many tracks known to have screen tear and other issues seeming to correlate. Circuits like Mt. Slamorama and Laguna immediately come to mind. It is unknown for certain, but also likely that prior glitches such as the grip/temp bug and the mysteriously disappearing gauge cluster are related to these variations and inconsistencies.
The above concerns are only two of many variables that come into play in racing on GT. I know that those I've spent time with will likely recall the above from discussions in the past, and some may recall some of the 'guidelines' discussed and general processes that can be followed to ensure you provide yourself the best chance at success. Perhaps upon the GTS release and pending further discovery of these and other impacts it may be considered to develop a general assistance guide that details these factors, their effects, and how to capitalise upon them.
In summary; hard-wire your 🤬, clear your cache, reset router/modem, be observant and learn how to identify when a room is beat, be intimately familiar with both your own driving style and the balance of your car setup so that you can make educated decisions about whether to trash a car with miles on it, and learn to not only identify changes in the car's behaviour but also how to adapt to them. I used to love enduros, for many of these above reasons.
Carry-on, folks.
Yes, the chassis does 'wear' and change with miles. This is known. Different cars respond to chassis ageing differently, much like they do to "Rigidity Improvement" in the maintenance menu. In general(there are exceptions) as the chassis ages the car will become looser. This manifests itself as both a more neutral/loose balance at corner entry as well as general instability as the chassis ages. Not unlike Rigidity Improvement, this can be used as a 'tuning' aid, of sorts. For cars that are inherently tight/stable understeerey push monsters, as the chassis wears the car can actually pick up pace. Conversely, something inherently loose like a Lotus will often become more unwieldy, less precise, and eventually considerably more difficult to drive and hit your points as the chassis wears. Again, the effects are not unlike Rigidity Improvement in that the most significant change is a shift in balance and precision/input response. This wear is noticeable at mileages as low as 60-80 miles. As such, prior to my retirement from competition I would often replace a car at 100 miles or less, particularly for cars that are already loose and/or struggle to put power down. Of course, these effects are independent of suspension settings, etc; so in a series where tuning isn't restricted these changes may not necessarily be advantageous to utilise as a tuning aid, but rather can be a hindrance that must be tuned around. When you are limited to stock cars this can have a significant impact upon performance, on the order of half a second or more per minute on sensitive combos. Lotus RM at Monaco, etc come to mind where you have an already twitchy car on a course where precise car placement is paramount. With tuning prohibited stock cars, the setup is never ideal anyway so as the car wears it either gets better or worse(again, depending on whether it is already a loose or tight car); whereas with a tuning series you begin with your ideal(ideally(hahah)) setup. Accordingly, any changes whether that occur from chassis wear deviates the car's balance and behaviour from that ideal that you dialed in with your setup. Different challenges present.
As well, the room condition also directly affects grip/balance and correspondingly the resultant lap times are affected. This is also known and has been the case back to GT5. This is why not only different hosts and/or players in the room can impact the feel and pace of the car, as well as sometimes you just get a bogus room. I've turned several repeated laps in a combo online all within 1-2 tenths, only to hop into a different room and be 2+ seconds slower. Many times the entire room can feel the effects and everyone is slower, however different drivers can be impacted differently. Someone who tends to ride the limit for a greater percentage of their lap time, the room to room variances can be rather pronounced. Conversely, someone who rarely reaches the limits of the car may not necessarily notice the reduced peak limits. Certain tracks are/were more prone to inconsistencies than others, with many tracks known to have screen tear and other issues seeming to correlate. Circuits like Mt. Slamorama and Laguna immediately come to mind. It is unknown for certain, but also likely that prior glitches such as the grip/temp bug and the mysteriously disappearing gauge cluster are related to these variations and inconsistencies.
The above concerns are only two of many variables that come into play in racing on GT. I know that those I've spent time with will likely recall the above from discussions in the past, and some may recall some of the 'guidelines' discussed and general processes that can be followed to ensure you provide yourself the best chance at success. Perhaps upon the GTS release and pending further discovery of these and other impacts it may be considered to develop a general assistance guide that details these factors, their effects, and how to capitalise upon them.
In summary; hard-wire your 🤬, clear your cache, reset router/modem, be observant and learn how to identify when a room is beat, be intimately familiar with both your own driving style and the balance of your car setup so that you can make educated decisions about whether to trash a car with miles on it, and learn to not only identify changes in the car's behaviour but also how to adapt to them. I used to love enduros, for many of these above reasons.
Carry-on, folks.
- 1,339
- denmark
- MrRacingline
A couple of points; appropriately unsolicited.
Yes, the chassis does 'wear' and change with miles. This is known. Different cars respond to chassis ageing differently, much like they do to "Rigidity Improvement" in the maintenance menu. In general(there are exceptions) as the chassis ages the car will become looser. This manifests itself as both a more neutral/loose balance at corner entry as well as general instability as the chassis ages. Not unlike Rigidity Improvement, this can be used as a 'tuning' aid, of sorts. For cars that are inherently tight/stable understeerey push monsters, as the chassis wears the car can actually pick up pace. Conversely, something inherently loose like a Lotus will often become more unwieldy, less precise, and eventually considerably more difficult to drive and hit your points as the chassis wears. Again, the effects are not unlike Rigidity Improvement in that the most significant change is a shift in balance and precision/input response. This wear is noticeable at mileages as low as 60-80 miles. As such, prior to my retirement from competition I would often replace a car at 100 miles or less, particularly for cars that are already loose and/or struggle to put power down. Of course, these effects are independent of suspension settings, etc; so in a series where tuning isn't restricted these changes may not necessarily be advantageous to utilise as a tuning aid, but rather can be a hindrance that must be tuned around. When you are limited to stock cars this can have a significant impact upon performance, on the order of half a second or more per minute on sensitive combos. Lotus RM at Monaco, etc come to mind where you have an already twitchy car on a course where precise car placement is paramount. With tuning prohibited stock cars, the setup is never ideal anyway so as the car wears it either gets better or worse(again, depending on whether it is already a loose or tight car); whereas with a tuning series you begin with your ideal(ideally(hahah)) setup. Accordingly, any changes whether that occur from chassis wear deviates the car's balance and behaviour from that ideal that you dialed in with your setup. Different challenges present.
As well, the room condition also directly affects grip/balance and correspondingly the resultant lap times are affected. This is also known and has been the case back to GT5. This is why not only different hosts and/or players in the room can impact the feel and pace of the car, as well as sometimes you just get a bogus room. I've turned several repeated laps in a combo online all within 1-2 tenths, only to hop into a different room and be 2+ seconds slower. Many times the entire room can feel the effects and everyone is slower, however different drivers can be impacted differently. Someone who tends to ride the limit for a greater percentage of their lap time, the room to room variances can be rather pronounced. Conversely, someone who rarely reaches the limits of the car may not necessarily notice the reduced peak limits. Certain tracks are/were more prone to inconsistencies than others, with many tracks known to have screen tear and other issues seeming to correlate. Circuits like Mt. Slamorama and Laguna immediately come to mind. It is unknown for certain, but also likely that prior glitches such as the grip/temp bug and the mysteriously disappearing gauge cluster are related to these variations and inconsistencies.
The above concerns are only two of many variables that come into play in racing on GT. I know that those I've spent time with will likely recall the above from discussions in the past, and some may recall some of the 'guidelines' discussed and general processes that can be followed to ensure you provide yourself the best chance at success. Perhaps upon the GTS release and pending further discovery of these and other impacts it may be considered to develop a general assistance guide that details these factors, their effects, and how to capitalise upon them.
In summary; hard-wire your 🤬, clear your cache, reset router/modem, be observant and learn how to identify when a room is beat, be intimately familiar with both your own driving style and the balance of your car setup so that you can make educated decisions about whether to trash a car with miles on it, and learn to not only identify changes in the car's behaviour but also how to adapt to them. I used to love enduros, for many of these above reasons.
Carry-on, folks.
As for the person hosting the room, I have heard that it must be the person in the room who has the best connection to be room host, but is it no matter where in the world the host is in relation to the people in the room? In my case I find myself in Denmark, while most of the people not to say actually everyone else is in the usa , I ask because it indicates that you have a great knowledge about it all and therefore would love to hear your opinion about it ?
As for the person hosting the room, I have heard that it must be the person in the room who has the best connection to be room host, but is it no matter where in the world the host is in relation to the people in the room? In my case I find myself in Denmark, while most of the people not to say actually everyone else is in the usa , I ask because it indicates that you have a great knowledge about it all and therefore would love to hear your opinion about it ?
Ah, that's USA !!!
Dragonwhisky
Premium
- 6,982
- the land of green, hills, rocks & whiskey
- Dragonwhisky
Yeah track temp has a difference in your lap times like bambi says. What i usually do for these longer endurance races is i have 1 car with no oil change and just do laps with it and 1 brand new car with 0 miles for race day. So it's all fresh and all good. Maybe it doesn't make that much of a difference really but it's just the mindset for me knowing I have a fresh car and don't have to worry about it.
Some days you have off days. We all get them including the faster drivers across GTPlanet.
I just want to state I'd be more than willing to help some drivers out in the Pro or Pro Am with tips, tuning ect. Don't be afraid to ask. I want everyone to compete out there on the track to have more fun each week.
Looking forward to Silverstone this Wednesday
From the way back machine.
For those discussing the differences in GT6 behavior in offline vs online mode. Here's a little dissertation on why it is, in fact, different.
First, a diagram of what the connections look like in a 5 person Non-fixed host room.
Each point on the perimeter is a PS3. Now, we'll zoom in on one of those lines.
The extreme left and right end points are PS3s. As you move in to the center map, which is a map of the US internet backbone infrastructure, where each device (router, switch and cabling owned by one of those corporations listed at the bottom of the map) from either end, the data packets hit your router, then your modem, which are devices in your control, and then go out to your ISP's equipment and cabling. These devices are at the points where 2 arrows meet. Anyone with a Windows machine can open a Command Prompt, (Start Menu>> All Programs>> Accessories>> Command Prompt) type in tracert www.google.com and hit enter. This will return the number of devices, and information about each, it takes for your data to travel to google. When I did this from my PC last night, there were 7 "hops" before my data ever got outside my ISP's equipment and onto the internet backbone. It took a total of 12 hops before my data hit the final device google allows to be polled. Admittedly, since my ISP is one of the owners of backbone routers, it might have been only 5 hops before the data hit the edge routers. Still, that's at least 5 devices including my router and modem before it ever hits the "internet". Every device the data packets hit is making decisions on where that data goes next, in real time. Those decisions and the time it takes for the data packets to travel between is what we call lag and is measured in milliseconds. The amount of data that can move over the lines and through the devices is commonly referred to as bandwidth and is measured in bits per second, (bps). More of the latter and less of the former is always a good thing but, neither is directly proportionally dependent on either. Meaning, just because you have great "ping" doesn't mean you will have great bandwidth and having great bandwidth doesn't mean you'll have great "ping".
The PS3 and GT6 have code built in to compensate for the time it takes for the data to travel from one PS3 to another. Anything that interrupts the data stream will increase the load and calculations GT6's algorithms have to ask the PS3 to process. The longer it takes for data to be received will also increase the processing load. Obviously, the amount of data being received will also increase the load on the process. This brings us to our next picture.
The above diagram represents the connections when 10 players are in a GT6 Non-fixed host lobby. The number of connection lines goes up considerably from 10 for the 5 man, to 45. Every one of those lines has between 10, to as many as 30, or more, hops to make before it gets to any other single PS3 in the room, and everyone is broadcasting to everyone. This isn't even including everyone's side connection to the GT6/PSN authentication servers, which must be maintained to keep each in the room. By the way, that point in the center, is not a PS3.
Now, we're going to add in 5 more. We've only tripled the number of players at this point but, the lines of connection didn't go from 10 to 20 to 30 on this journey. They went from 10 to 45 to 105.
Excluding the aforementioned PSN connection line, that's 105 of these;
Some of those lines stretch outside the US too. Now, multiply those by 8? Is SNAIL the only league racing on Sunday night? Is GT6 the only application being used on the internet on Sunday nights?
When you race offline (single player mode) there is only
View attachment 342906
and, if an internet connection is available, the authentication connection to PSN/GT6. Nothing else. The processor isn't running calculations on lag and bandwidth prediction, extrapolation and correction for you and everyone else that's in an online room. This is why cars behave differently offline vs. online.
It was argued for much of GT5's lifespan that the game's physics model was actually different from offline to online. They released a patch that stated that difference was removed. I can only assume they brought that coding forward to GT6, so, we're left with nothing more than network issues to blame for the differences in the 2 modes of play. I personally suspect network instabilities were to blame for the differences noted in GT5 and they adjusted the network algorithms further to compensate. I have no empirical evidence to prove that suspicion however.
Those that state one of the best ways to prepare yourself for practicing in offline mode, or even online in your own lobby, is to use at least 1 grade less tire than what will be used during racing, are right on the money. Doing so will make the car react more inline with how it will behave in an online room with somewhere between 10 and 105 connections passing data over lines that can be affected by a lightning strike in Atlanta, a vehicular accident in Chicago, or a directional boring machine cutting through a concrete encased fiber line in Denver. When a network path goes down, all the devices using it have to find another route and resend each and every packet that didn't make it down the path that broke.
There is one more external influence on our network paths I would like to bring up. EMI. Electromagnetic Interference. Every electrical conductor, when energized, produces an EMI field. It varies in strength and size as voltage and amperage change on the line. Most network signal conductors are shielded to help minimize the effects of EMI and fiber lines are, for all intents and purposes, immune. The devices the fiber lines are connected to aren't however. EMI can also warp or corrupt Wifi signals and there's no way, I can think of anyway, to mitigate it, aside from making sure the path the signal travels between Tx/Rx doesn't intersect or come close to another line or device that emits EMI. Either that, or make the wireless signal more powerful than any expected EMI. For example, if I were to use my PS3's wifi to connect to my router, directly in line with the path that signal would take is a floor lamp. It is literally close enough for the 120v, 150w 1.25 amp load to bend that signal. Would it be enough to corrupt the data packets? I don't know and I don't care. I know enough about it to know it could happen so, my PS3 has a dedicated hard line straight to my router that laughs as it goes by that same floor lamp, flying at 100Mbps. Almost twice as fast as the PS3's G wifi can send data.
In conclusion, there's not much we can do, outside of making sure our connection to our ISP is as strong as we can make it, favor wired over wireless inside our home networks, and, when practicing offline or in our own rooms, to use a lesser grade tire than will be raced, to combat the differences in the two modes of play.
PS. I have to dime out @Falango . He is a perfect example of the level of skill, talent and expertise in areas not involving GT6 game play, this league has the privilege to attract. I struggled with MS Publisher for about 2 hours trying to make those 5, 10 and 15 point diagrams, got to the 15 point and ran out of steam getting all the connection lines added. I pmed Falango and in about 10 minutes he had generated all 3 diagrams in a nice, neat, presentable fashion and told me how many lines were in each.
- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
- 88
- Crowborough
- Clemeson
OK, thanks.
- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
- 88
- Crowborough
- Clemeson
Yes, sorry I had issues in the lobby seeing all the players so I quit the race, I wasn't completely sure about it but I read that's the way it is. I hope it was just a one-off and I don't have any problems for the next.
- 2,168
- Ocho Rios
- Marcus__Garvey
As for the person hosting the room, I have heard that it must be the person in the room who has the best connection to be room host, but is it no matter where in the world the host is in relation to the people in the room? In my case I find myself in Denmark, while most of the people not to say actually everyone else is in the usa , I ask because it indicates that you have a great knowledge about it all and therefore would love to hear your opinion about it ?
As Dragon's post describes in greater detail; latency due to distance is in play regardless of the who the host is, and also whether the room is set to fixed host or not. That said, using fixed host can reduce lag issues in certain circumstances.
To repeat what is described above in simpler terms; GT uses a P2P system when not in fixed host. What this means is that communication from console to console occurs between all drivers on track. There is no server. As such, any(and all) players that you are either a great distance to or otherwise have high ping exchanging data with may experience noticeable lag. As well, because there is a connection to and from each driver on track there are far more opportunities for packet loss(lag) to present. This is why sometimes two drivers can have issues seeing each other, while nobody else in the room experiences it. With fixed host, the host effectively becomes the server with all players now communicating to and from the host alone. Since now all of the information exchanged is channelled through one person's(host) connection it is paramount the host has a decent connection in both ping to the players and bandwidth, whereas bandwidth is not typically a limiting factor with non-fixed host as very little data actually exchanges between two drivers. If issues arise like one person struggling to see one other person, fixed host can sometimes resolve these providing the host doesn't have the same issue with either of players. Furthermore, if one person is far away(say in Europe) and the rest of the field is mostly in California, sometimes having a host in between(such as NYC) can sometimes help with lag issues. Regardless, distance is the primary factor in latency from any console to any other and as such with increased distance comes increased potential for lag. Unfortunately, nothing can change those laws of physics.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I spent some time in single-player mode tuning the Mustang. I found some time with stiffer spring rates and I fine tuned the LSD to remove as much of the understeer as possible. On the slow corners I can actually get the car to rotate with the throttle, but that may not happen at all with worn front tires. I saw no difference in acceleration by adding/removing performance mods so I just stuck with what what I've been using since I'm familiar with the shift points and sound of the throttle. Mostly I just found time by adjusting my lines. I'll be online tonight to see how these changes work out in a lobby with tire wear turned on.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I'm the same, I always feel slow through the high speed right handers (there are two) but when I try to increase my speed I just understeer into the runoff. There's some brake/turn-in technique that I just don't have down right. I'm going to look for a track guide and see if I can find some tips.
- 1,339
- denmark
- MrRacingline
I havent liked silverstone so far either and allways lose a lot off time due to the Track boundaries not getting enough "attension/respekt" , and I seriusly doubt I will learn to like it with fast tirewear , but then again , maybe its this time I can be more compedative than normal , but , I seriusly doubt it hehe
1.1
Track Boundaries
this post will serve as the track boundary rules.
The white line at the track edge is the track boundary unless there is a red/white striped rumble strip present or the section of track is listed here as an exception to this rule.
Silverstone Grand Prix Circuit - No exceptions.
1.1
Track Boundaries
this post will serve as the track boundary rules.
The white line at the track edge is the track boundary unless there is a red/white striped rumble strip present or the section of track is listed here as an exception to this rule.
Silverstone Grand Prix Circuit - No exceptions.
- 539
- Canada
- lllTrick
Silver stone is a great track! It offers everything at high speeds. I can see why it was the final race location for GT academy. It's worth spending the time to get fast here. You can literally take everything you learn here. And apply it to almost every other track. Having it all in one is not only a great challenge but helps elevate anyone who wants to get faster and learn how to do it at speeds!
Imo
Imo
- 1,339
- denmark
- MrRacingline
I wonder what laptimes people are able doing , so far my best has been a 2.04,something .....
Edit. Imo ?
Edit. Imo ?
- 539
- Canada
- lllTrick
Low 2:03's there will be some 2:02's after tonight.
- 1,339
- denmark
- MrRacingline
- 539
- Canada
- lllTrick
Being consistent is more important then a fast lap. Speed comes when your uber stable lap after lap.ohh my dear god , Iam pretty sure I wount get that low laptimes , I will be glad just doing a lap under 2.04
It allows you to start pushing it knowing that if mistakes are made your new found balance and control on track will allow you to adjust quicker ( to avoid little mess ups) and also to compensate for bigger mistakes. There is of course a lot more to all of this. But that's why racing is so great. It's complex and deep and can be enjoyed at every level.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I think I was high 2:03 offline. If I strung together all my best sectors I could see maybe 2:03 flat in the Mustang. Since physics are different in the lobby that probably translates to a high 2:04 on race day unless someone can take a few laps in the Mustang and suggest better settings to improve that.
- 1,339
- denmark
- MrRacingline
"They" call me Mr Consistancy , thats good then , I guess
- 4,229
- cambridge
- Birdy1084
Race room open
- 1,339
- denmark
- MrRacingline
I was looking at the scoring sheet , and saw a person called GTP_Babmi 
- 1,871
- SD
- Whitey093
Great race last night everyone! I made wholesale changes to my suspension, diff and transmission before the race and was able to hit low 2:03's which i thought would be enough to compete, but everyone else made major headway too and i was once again in mid-pack hell. I gave it everything, stuck to my race strategy and made only one small mistake near the end but still came up way short. For Brands Hatch i am going to have to up my game to be competitive. This season has definitely lived up to the hype as far as the competition and balance goes. See you all in the practice rooms.
- 4,716
- Indiana
- CWM_Spirit
The racing was very good last night from what I could see in front of me. I had a rocky qualifying and start so I knew it would have to be a comeback drive but I was just off my game. My estimates say that the incident I had with @Die_Birdy_Die cost me around 17 seconds so subtract that off of the 27 I finished back and I could have been in the middle of it.
Again, apologies for my poor connection and subsequent incidents. For the future I believe I am just going to save the replay and stream it post-race or something of that nature until I can find a workaround.
See you all at Brands Hatch!
Again, apologies for my poor connection and subsequent incidents. For the future I believe I am just going to save the replay and stream it post-race or something of that nature until I can find a workaround.
See you all at Brands Hatch!
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
