◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Currently Recruiting for GT7 - JOIN TODAY!!Open 

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JoeW
I was being rhetorical. Even though I do hate those things I do not complain about them publicly.
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If you were being rhetorical, then I clearly don't know what rhetorical means.

JoeW
Still, bad form by condescending like that.
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I wasn't being condescending at all. Sorry if you took it like that, but you took it wrong. Please re-read my comments:

And as with any form of motorsports (or any other sport for that matter), the rule breakers are punished but the victims are not compensated. When was the last time you saw a driver who was a victim of a crash have his finishing position improved or had his points haul increased because what happened to him was "not his fault". This isn't the first grade where everyone gets a ribbon for participating.

My comment about "first grade" was simply stated to provide support of my previous two sentences. In other words, it was used to emphasize my point. If I had wanted to be condescending, I would has said, "Are you in the first grade or something? Do you expect to get a ribbon just for participating?!"

Now that would have been condescending (and ironically "rhetorical" as well - using the definition of the word as I understand it)
 
Who even won prize a? Kinda got quickly lost in the shuffle. Btw, did i mention how much Logitech sucks? They won't have another g27 available until god knows when to replace mine. nice of them to offer a refund, but i bought the wheel for a reason. It sure would be nice if the company actually cared for the customer that paid, instead of trying to Carter to a customer they don't yet have.
 
Apmaddock
Chiochan
So, this debate is really great but WHAT CARS ARE WE DRIVING THIS WEEK?
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I would also like to know that. I would like to host a break-in/enduro session tonight with the Prize A but I can't really do that if dude never posts it.
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Maybe I missed it, but have the prize winners been given the "all clear" to announce their prizes?
 
Just got bnib t500 and just want to make sure I update the newsest firm wear correctly, I know hill n jazz have t500 if you guys can lend me a hand thanks 👍


Oh yeah there on sale at frys now for 399!
 
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Rallywagon
A and B winners have. Not C though.so yep.you missed it.
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Doh! I see it now. I was busy editing cheeb's welcome message so that I can post a reply to Worst_Driver's request to join. I totally overlooked the posts in that were made while I was doing that. :ouch:
 
Chiochan
So, this debate is really great but WHAT CARS ARE WE DRIVING THIS WEEK?
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We just filling in some blank space until the stewards give us the word.




JLBowler
@dragon

How else would you suggest to accurately compare points scored in a room with 7 to a room with 12? If you really think it's fair to say that points earned in each room are equal to each other, like I said earlier, there is no point in discussing it with you.

I'm going to put this in big bold print in the hopes that it sinks in:

It's not a handicap. It doesn't change the standings within the division. It's only used to determine the weekly prize winners by more accurately comparing the performance of drivers in rooms of different size. The adjustment would never need to be changed unless SNAIL changed the entire points system becasue it's based on minimum available points for each night. The points would not be changed based on the adjustment for the monthly championship.
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First off, there's no reason to be snarkily putting text in bold print.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting. Let me make sure I'm clear on what your saying.

1st place in a race with 5 people has less value than 1st place in a race with 10?
This being because beating 9 drivers is harder than beating 4?

There will be a prize awarded to the highest scores under your system? That prize being what?
 
Well that just makes it all better. It has been really enjoyable trying to get something new implemented here. I will definitely keep this experience in mind the next time I have a series improvement idea by cutting my fingers off.
 
I am also looking forward to finding out what the combinations are. I thought there was some talk of something that was very out-of-the-box. I wonder what it could be?

Would it be possible to PM the two guys involved to get this rolling?
 
Handlebar
I am also looking forward to finding out what the combinations are. I thought there was some talk of something that was very out-of-the-box. I wonder what it could be?

Would it be possible to PM the two guys involved to get this rolling?
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I just sent Forcednduckshn and BeRandom a PM to remind them. However, please keep in mind that a prize selection isn't actually considered late until after Tuesday night. ;)
 
JoeW
In the perfect world of happy racers, whether you win or lose, your attitude about rage quitters is the way it should be. But getting disconnected randomly and getting driven off the course by drivers who are not on the same page as you can, and has, gotten under the skin of many of the higher ups here. The very same happy drivers who love the fellowship, racecraft and competition. When one or two of the peices of the formula fall to the wayside then I see people get frustrated.

So where is the simulation of real motorsport with disconnections and people who can't seem to keep their fenders away from yours? In real racing it requires a racing license to even get on the track and in that regard you know that everyone on the course is being held to a certain standard.

This is why I say that in many ways the nature of motorsports has nothing to with this series. You can talk about how "in real life, blah blah this or blah blah that" til you are blue in the face. But in the end you are sitting there in your home sipping gin and juice play a video game.

We do our best to perform within the parameters set forth by GT5 and the game they have created. It would be nice to cut some slack to those who cannot control the circumstances by which they are being eliminated from winning the competition. And the way these people are being eliminated fromthis have no similarities to real racing.

It has been a frustrating argument that I know I have lost but my point has been made and the decision is not in my favor. I'll see you guys for practice Wednesday ;)
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Well, his last argument sounds to my ears exactly the real reason behind his talk. It is not really a matter of fellowship or racecraft not even competition. JoeW doesn't like when his performance are too much affected by others.

EDIT : Sorry JoeW I have been too quick at anwering cause I was at office and had to go so my answer has gone prior a second reading. But when you write "happy racers" and "those who are not in the same page than you..." well... I was thinking it was not a good way to stay credible when you talk about fellowship etc..
 
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RAMSAM
Well, his last argument sounds to my ears exactly the real reason behind his talk. He don't care very much about fellowship or racecraft not even competition. He can't figure he won't win if he has to deal with others on the track because he is convinced he would be faster than anyone if no one shows on the track....
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Alrighty then! Perhaps I'm being a hypocrite by asking this, but let's put this to rest. It seems to have already been squashed, so no need to resurrect it. Let's try to focus on the more important discussion on points adjustments and prize distribution. 👍

EDIT: ninja'd by Joe. Let's just call that a wrap. You guys can further discuss via PM if you feel like it's necessary.
 
Dragonwhisky
We just filling in some blank space until the stewards give us the word.







First off, there's no reason to be snarkily putting text in bold print.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting. Let me make sure I'm clear on what your saying.

1st place in a race with 5 people has less value than 1st place in a race with 10?
This being because beating 9 drivers is harder than beating 4?

There will be a prize awarded to the highest scores under your system? That prize being what?
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It simply helps to more accurately determine order in which the A, B, and C prizes are distributed to the division winners. All it does is take into account the varying room sizes for the sole purpose of prize distribution. It doesn't affect the standings within a division for either the nightly or monthly championship. It only applies to selecting the A, B, and C prizes for car and track selection.

I wasn't trying to be snarky with the bold print. I was just getting a little tired of repeating the same thing within a wall of text. I wanted to simplify and make sure it was noticed.

As to the part about less value. First place is first place in each division against similiar competition. It is only when you try and compare between five divisions with varying numbers of competitors that the inequality exists.

Another way to explain it would be if you ran first in three races and last in three races this would be considered an equal performance. When the room size is different, the points don't show it as an equal performance. The driver in the smaller room would score more points than the driver in the larger room and the performances would be exactly the same. The points are being skewed toward the smaller room size becasue the minimim number of points you can earn is higher than it would be in a larger room.
 
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I'm putting this in red so people pay attention

If this arguing is the type of environment we have in this league, then I have no interest in continuing. If I was looking to join this league and saw this in the forum I would never think about it. We are playing a game that is meant for fun and if you can't even discuss ideas on a public forum without getting cocky or arguing then how am I supposed to expect a clean, fair race on Sunday? I think we all need to take a deep breath and discuss it properly or not discuss it at all.
 
Dragonwhisky
We just filling in some blank space until the stewards give us the word.
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Word has been given (for prizes A and B).

Dragonwhisky
Perhaps I'm misinterpreting. Let me make sure I'm clear on what your saying.

1st place in a race with 5 people has less value than 1st place in a race with 10?
This being because beating 9 drivers is harder than beating 4?

There will be a prize awarded to the highest scores under your system? That prize being what?
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This is just to compare for the Prize A, B and C that we already have on a more equal basis. The reasons have been pointed out time and again. There is no new prize. This is no new scale for promotion. Merely a potential change in who gets what prize each week.
 
It's not the first time the membership has engaged in a spirited discussion about a potential change to the leage and I'm sure it won't be the last. The exchange of ideas and implementation of changes that are wanted by the members is part of what makes SNAIL so good. How many organizations out there listen too and adopt so many changes that are brought up by the membership and then discussed and fine tuned like ideas are here?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not arguing anything with anyone. I presented an idea that may or may not be used and I have spent considerable time trying to explain it in a way that can be easily understood. I'm not even saying it's the best possible solution to a very small issue that exists, but it is the only one presented so far. If anyone else has anything constructive to add, I strongly encourage it.
 
JLBowler
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not arguing anything with anyone. I presented an idea that may or may not be used and I have spent considerable time trying to explain it in a way that can be easily understood. I'm not even saying it's the best possible solution to a very small issue that exists, but it is the only one presented so far. If anyone else has anything constructive to add, I strongly encourage it.
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I think you presented it well, personally.

When we first started talking about the problem, I had a funny feeling that the conversation would end up much like those I've had in the past about instant run-off voting. No matter how mathematically elegant an idea is, there seems to be a limit to how much complexity people can accept without it feeling somehow artificial, and therefore unfair. This isn't intended as a knock on the people that disagree with your idea, but the fact that the criticisms paint it as a handicap just illustrates the fact that it isn't well understood.

I suggest that we try it for December, and then publish a comparison of the results between the two prize distribution schemes for all to see (I know you already did that for November, but I didn't see anyone say they had a problem with the results, so maybe it didn't sink in?). If a majority prefer the old system, we can switch it back.
 
DrKronin
I think you presented it well, personally.

When we first started talking about the problem, I had a funny feeling that the conversation would end up much like those I've had in the past about instant run-off voting. No matter how mathematically elegant an idea is, there seems to be a limit to how much complexity people can accept without it feeling somehow artificial, and therefore unfair. This isn't intended as a knock on the people that disagree with your idea, but the fact that the criticisms paint it as a handicap just illustrates the fact that it isn't well understood.

I suggest that we try it for December, and then publish a comparison of the results between the two prize distribution schemes for all to see (I know you already did that for November, but I didn't see anyone say they had a problem with the results, so maybe it didn't sink in?). If a majority prefer the old system, we can switch it back.
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I could run through the last six months and point out where the differences would have been just as I did earlier in this discussion for the month of November. Link to that post is right here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7844458#post7844458
 
This would all be a moot point if everyone would just show up and race. I find it to be a ridiculous excuse that some forget about the races on Sunday. The name of the league starts with.........
You guessed it, SUNDAY! Not too hard to remember.
 
As the Prize B winner, my decision is to take the Lexus IS F Racing Concept '08 to Tokyo R246 for 6 laps.

This car really forces you to have some throttle discipline and so do a few corners at this track. You may now being to practice then tell me how awful my choice was.
 
I originally was going to take this car to this track, reverse, and the only reason I didn't was because I felt a few people were going to really complain about the difficulty of a few turns. Now I am glad I didn't, because I have a bit of practice/a head start on this one =) Great pick in my opinion Random.
 
BeRandom
As the Prize B winner, my decision is to take the Lexus IS F Racing Concept '08 to Tokyo R246 for 6 laps.

This car really forces you to have some throttle discipline and so do a few corners at this track. You may now being to practice then tell me how awful my choice was.
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Sounds interesting. Where are you in Michigan?
 
amweaver47
i'm putting this in red so people pay attention

if this arguing is the type of environment we have in this league, then i have no interest in continuing. If i was looking to join this league and saw this in the forum i would never think about it. We are playing a game that is meant for fun and if you can't even discuss ideas on a public forum without getting cocky or arguing then how am i supposed to expect a clean, fair race on sunday? I think we all need to take a deep breath and discuss it properly or not discuss it at all.
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amen!!!
 
BeRandom
As the Prize B winner, my decision is to take the Lexus IS F Racing Concept '08 to Tokyo R246 for 6 laps.

This car really forces you to have some throttle discipline and so do a few corners at this track. You may now being to practice then tell me how awful my choice was.
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I hope no-one ever hears there choice is awful. Some may be more challenging than others but I have yet to drive a bad combo. Your pic sounds like good one.

One thing I have learned from being a S.N.A.I.L. is that each combo brings its own unique challenges. I never thought I would enjoy driving a RM Camaro let alone enjoy Road Course Daytona. But now I like both. Lets all just enjoy the variety that GT5 has (of course we want more).

Now if someone will just choose that Lotus Elan in the OCD;)
 

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