killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
Good to see you back. How's the wrist?
1.09 update physics changes....
- Thread starter feydrautha
- 407 comments
- 25,098 views
- 451
I couldn't tell for sure when I first tested but it could explain why there was no net gain in lap time when it seemed I had better corner grip at Tsukuba. It certainly had no effect on straight line speed (Route X) or traction off the grid (Goodwood) on comforts until I went to the extreme.
It could be one camber set up is better for low speed corners and another better for high speed bends, so results could vary depending on track. I ran some laps at Indy on race hards and there's a suggestion that camber will be beneficial to lap times here. It's boring as hell going round there so don't know if I'll finish what I started.
- 617
Wow, not God and you just wrote the new testament? Maybe your Jesus Christ SuperCargo!
Then again, you're 'a minnow amongst whales' so says your signature... so Jonah, maybe instead of jumping overboard with the same 'I'm not big, he should respect little guys' tripe, you go and read Praiano's thread again and again and again in context (it doesn't take most people once but I gather you are Special) to see what a true gentleman Praiano is, a good natured talented yet humble man who shares his gift... and in this thread he was brought in, said what his findings were, there was a disagreement in results, what does he do? He doesn't say 'I'm Praiano therefore I'm right'... he is a busy man speaking in a foreign language but he goes away and runs a test again, comes back to report his findings and even apologizes... as for you, in this thread not only have you shared your findings and facts, I have seen you say you are the little man and explicitly make out others treat you as inferior and try and smear them... yet that is not what we witnessed... and then you preach at Praiano, one of the real gems of GTP and GT6, on how to behave... ...and do the same Mr Collins from Pride & Prejudice act for the umpteenth time... if you can't see what a kind of man you are and your own behavioural spots let this message be your mirror.
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Speaking of that car and some others
don't you find a bit strange how they react in cornering at slow speed ?
you take a curve a 90 Km/h , it's stable
take it at 60 Km/h and the rear snap violently
For me that reaction is really un natural
some other cars do that since 1.09 (i also have the hsv in my head)
maybe only MR cars ? i've to try more
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- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
Entry and exit can be a lot looser with camber but mid corner grip goes up in my experience. Braking distance is increased but you can really throw a car in to the corner, the more load you put on the suspension mid corner the more grip you get. I'd say this points to fitting certain driving styles/techniques by but not others.
These are my observations so far 👍
- 4,018
- New Jersey
- crash27wwjd
I believe you get more mid-corner grip, more noticeable on mid-high speed corners but you lose grip on slow corners. My testing was done at Silverstone Inter as it and the GP course have really become my testing grounds, long sweeping bends were taken faster but the last section and final turn would suffer just enough to bring the lap times back to about the same. Rear camber would help slow speed corner exit, allow you to get back on the throttle quicker without as much throttle control, the back end would stick and have less wheel spin. However, it may have given more rear grip mid-corner hurting rotation enough to notice understeer, also on entry?? It becomes a compromise depending on the track, Tokyo with more mid-high speed bends would be better with camber than say Madrid with low speed carousels and tighter turns. If this makes sense. I also felt braking on the front end suffered the higher the camber.
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Thanks @DolHaus and @Bowtie-muscle. I experienced something similar, but slightly different. I noticed better corner entry using camber but it killed exit speeds. I can see it in the data logger. I saved each of the runs with different camber settings. So I could easily see 5, 6 or 7 mph faster entry speeds and 3, 4 or 5 mph slower exit speed, which then translate to an overall slower speed at the end of the straight. My lap times are all very, very equal.
Many more laps to run.
Many more laps to run.
- 4,018
- New Jersey
- crash27wwjd
Could it be car and/or tire slightly different? I have only really done big test on 1 car with SS TIRES AT 550PP.
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
I think the advantage lies in the demands of the track, I found I could push way harder on corners where I was previously reaching a lateral peak limit before, camber was making that peak higher and therefore allowing me to go faster through mid corner. If the corner isn't pushing the car to the same lateral peak then there is no real advantage to camber.
My thinking so far is that certain tracks and cars will benefit from camber but others will be less noticeable or even a hindrance depending on driving style.
What combination of track, tyre and car are you running?
- 11,207
- Adrian, Mich.
- cargorat323
- CargoRatt
- 617
As if the numerous times you have said you are a little guy added to the meaningfulness of the thread. I attack you because you were a jerk who personally attacked someone's character who didn't deserve it at all and you apparently still can't admit it. I will do as I please and I gladly get off your case now
- 4,018
- New Jersey
- crash27wwjd
Cargo, like yourself I am a "little guy" compared to Hami, praiano and Dolhaus, smaller and less known also. But I believe I have earned some respect from several others around here and I try to contribute any way I can. You are known and respected enough that your input is a contribution. I know what you mean by "little guy" but not everyone else does, and do not look at you as a little guy. Just keep doing your thing and helping the community.
- 617
Agreed with that Bowtie, perhaps he can do it without attacking someone else for not treating 'little guys with respect' when he clearly was treated with respect by someone who could contribute much to this thread but may now not do so because he was roughly treated.
- 4,018
- New Jersey
- crash27wwjd
Unfortunately, text does not have audio and things can come out wrong or be read wrong. Just trying to put out some flames, now can we have a group hug, blow sunshine-rainbows and kisses at one another? If you have an opinion or smoething to contribute, by all means please do! We will get further helping each other and this is not an attack but a plea to get back to camber and physics.
- 11,207
- Adrian, Mich.
- cargorat323
- CargoRatt
Seriously, get off my ass, I never attacked anyone. If you bothered to go back and read the conversation between Praiano and I, he is the one that resorted to name calling and such just because I didn't agree with his findings. Not sure why you want to continue with this bs as Praiano and I have both already moved on from that discussion. It is clear that the only reason you are here is to keep attacking me. Unless you have something constructive to add to the thread, please, see your way out.
- 617
Hmmm... always wanting to get the last word in? I stopped at the last post. Try it.
- 11,207
- Adrian, Mich.
- cargorat323
- CargoRatt
- 617
Again, there you go assuming things. Never said anything about getting that last word in, just responding to your post. Now you're just being ridiculous and making crap up for the sake of arguing.
Ah diddums... let's shake hands - someone suggested hugs but I am not going all the way to Michigan for that!
- 11,207
- Adrian, Mich.
- cargorat323
- CargoRatt
- 4,018
- New Jersey
- crash27wwjd
And it would be appreciated if you would continue.*Shakes hand. Have a good day.
@DolHaus I've made contributions to this thread. I'll say no more however.
Edit: To avoid confusion, by that I mean the more input we have the better. I do not have a side here just trying to calm things!
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- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
I know you have and I wish for you to continue, I just don't want this thread to descend into the usual nonsense when we are making progress towards an answer that benefits us all.*Shakes hand. Have a good day.
@DolHaus I've made contributions to this thread. I'll say no more however.
We must put our differences aside and work together, there is no hierarchy here. All theories and inputs will be treated with respect if properly presented and substantiated, no matter who they come from.
- 767
- Happyville
- WhoosierGirl
Thank you killer, The shoulder is doing much better, therapy is helping a lot this time.
To contribute to the thread, with Nascars, LM corvette's or LMP's at Daytona loss of grip from mid corner to exit is easy to see on the data logger when camber is used.
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killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
As for the 2 gentlemen having a text disagreement. Use the PM button. I hear the theme of the Young and the Restless ringing through my ears.
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Please turn in your man card right now for using an old daytime soap as a reference.
- 11,207
- Adrian, Mich.
- cargorat323
- CargoRatt
Its already been settled, damn. (See post #292) No need to go putting your two cents in and piling on when things have already been dealt with.
Really getting tired of people jumping on my ass, especially after the fact. You're a little late to the party.
332i
(Banned)
- 855
- Morocco
- yadeegson
This thread is finally getting some concrete info filed together, rather than subjective opinion.
You guys should probably drop it and quit responding every time someone quotes your posts from this thread. get used to it, because the thread is going to be kicking for quite a while. Scoff and dismiss or unsubscribe from the thread. Don't feel like saving face is necessary on the internet.
I understand arguing physics (I am guilty of that ITT), but this crap has no place here.
You guys should probably drop it and quit responding every time someone quotes your posts from this thread. get used to it, because the thread is going to be kicking for quite a while. Scoff and dismiss or unsubscribe from the thread. Don't feel like saving face is necessary on the internet.
I understand arguing physics (I am guilty of that ITT), but this crap has no place here.
- 1,485
- Hampshire
- Lionheart2113
Here is the link to my first stage of 1.09 camber testing.
Camber Results
To save everyone the boring read here are my thoughts.
Conclusion:
Front Camber - Increasing the value will help the car turn on corner entry. Too much and the car will begin to slide more through the turn changing your line and cause a tight condition on exit.
Rear Camber - Tightens the car through most stages of the turn. Feels great on corner entry, but over adjust and you will have to slow down too much in the corner to counteract the understeer.
I'm looking forward to seeing more results from other tuners/testers. We can use all of the information we can get!
Edit:
I forgot to mention that any front camber, keeping the rear @ 0.0 did make the car faster in all tests.
Camber Results
To save everyone the boring read here are my thoughts.
Conclusion:
Front Camber - Increasing the value will help the car turn on corner entry. Too much and the car will begin to slide more through the turn changing your line and cause a tight condition on exit.
Rear Camber - Tightens the car through most stages of the turn. Feels great on corner entry, but over adjust and you will have to slow down too much in the corner to counteract the understeer.
I'm looking forward to seeing more results from other tuners/testers. We can use all of the information we can get!
Edit:
I forgot to mention that any front camber, keeping the rear @ 0.0 did make the car faster in all tests.
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