2008 European Grand Prix

[Ardius]

I think its about time we start discussing this brand new circuit, its become a little dead around here.

Seeing as this is a new circuit and therefore we dont really have much in the way of history to discuss, I'll start things off with the quotes from the F1 official site:

Formula One racing is about to re-group in Spain after its three-week summer break to visit the first all-new venue on the 2008 calendar - the impressive street circuit in the port city of Valencia. Organisers have created a unique and demanding 25-corner track that winds around the Juan Carlos I Marina. However, unlike traditional street circuits, whose tight and twisting configurations place a premium on qualifying at the front, Valencia is fast, sweeping and wide, offering plenty of potential for passing - and excitement...

Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber
"I'm always pleased when a new race track turns up in the calendar, and I'm particularly keen to experience Valencia. It will be an authentic street circuit in the sense that it runs through the town centre, unlike the Melbourne or Montreal tracks. In terms of its charms and challenges, the Valencia race will probably come closest to the Monaco Grand Prix. I really like Valencia, which I've visited many times, of course. We do a lot of testing on the permanent race track in Cheste and we've rolled out our new Formula One car in Valencia on several occasions. The first few metres in a brand-new car are always a very special experience.

"Early this year I spent a few days in Valencia with my family between the rollout and the next test. We had a great time, went to the beach, and in town there's a dried-out riverbed that has nature parks and playgrounds. That was very nice, especially for the children. Valencia is also a great place for shopping and eating out, needless to say, and I love the contrast between its historic and futuristic architecture. I'm looking forward to the weekend."

Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber
"I am very much looking forward to Valencia as I am a big fan of street circuits in general. They are very demanding as they are often bumpy and the street surface changes. When you make a mistake you easily run into barriers. Anyway, Valencia will not be a complete street circuit. There will be lots of run-off areas for safety reasons. The FIA puts a lot of effort into safety, which is good.

"On a street circuit it is of major importance to have a good basic set-up which is easy to drive. The lap time improvement has to be gained step by step, you cannot drive in too wild a style. Also, in terms of the racing line you have to approach this gradually. It is very important to walk the track before driving it the first time to get a feeling for the surface and the layout."

Mario Theissen, BMW Motorsport Director
“We are very much looking forward to the race and the city, particularly as BMW has some close associations with Valencia. The Formula BMW Racing Centre there serves as the training site for our up-and-coming young talent in the Formula BMW series around the world. Valencia is by tradition the venue for rolling out our new F1 car, and beyond that city races always make for a unique atmosphere. We await the new circuit with keen anticipation."

Willy Rampf, BMW Sauber technical director
"Valencia is a new venue in the calendar and as such poses a particular challenge, not least because it's a street circuit. Not that it's a slow one - the drivers will be exceeding the 300 km/h mark on the fastest section. With the help of our simulation programs we are in a position to reliably calculate the required downforce levels in advance as well as brake wear and gear ratios. That means we will start out with a good basic set-up. If you compare Valencia with Monaco, you're talking about two street circuits but with very distinctive characters and very different challenges for the cars. In Valencia we will be racing with a lot of downforce, but not with the maximum that Monaco demands."

Jenson Button, Honda
"My first thoughts are that it's a circuit that we haven't raced at before and it's got barriers all around it! I think the whole of Formula One is very excited about going to Valencia. It's a beautiful city and it will be great to be racing around the streets there. We have a simulator at our UK base, as do most teams, and spending a lot of time on that has been vital in terms of learning the circuit. With a simulator, you're not getting the complete feeling of the car but you are gaining understanding of the distances and the braking points, so it's very useful. We have some very fast circuits like Monza, Spa and Silverstone on the calendar and then the slower circuits like Monaco and Hungary, and we're expecting Valencia to be somewhere in the middle. It's also got the added excitement of being surrounded by barriers which really focuses your mind and demands that you give full concentration around every single lap."

Rubens Barrichello, Honda
"The challenge of learning a new circuit is always exciting, particularly when it is an unusual venue such as the new street circuit in Valencia. Despite preparing as much as we can in advance of the race, our track walk with the engineers on Thursday and the practice sessions on Friday will be absolutely key to learning the track and assessing the grip levels. A new track always opens up the field and gives an opportunity for the driver to make an impact as our feedback will be very important in achieving the correct set-up. We have prepared well and I am looking forward to the weekend and the potential to score some points. We can expect the race weekend to be very hot which will add to the physical challenge for the drivers, car and team. I'm a big fan of Valencia as a city; it's a beautiful location, and hopefully the race will bring a lot of new fans to Formula One."

Ross Brawn, Honda team principal
"Valencia is often thought of as a temporary race venue, however it is actually a permanent street circuit which is quite fast and flowing; it's not like the type of street circuit that we have been used to racing around in Monaco. There has been some racing around the track already with sportscars and Spanish F3, so we have been gathering information from those races to see what we can learn in advance of the race weekend.

“Valencia is going to be a medium to low-downforce track with a couple of quick corners which will present a very challenging circuit in an exciting environment. One of the key aspects is that it is going to be very windy. The America's Cup is held in Valencia for this very reason, however, such conditions could make achieving a good balance on the cars quite tricky. The Valencia weekend is going to be a fascinating engineering challenge for the team and we are all looking forward to it."

Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren
"It looks pretty fast, to be honest. You get used to street circuits being quite slow, with lots of slow- to medium-speed corners and very short straights, but this is almost the opposite. There are a lot of fast kinks and esses, a couple of decent straights and lots of high-speed stuff. It’s too early to say yet whether there will be opportunities to overtake around here, but there are a couple of hairpins where it might be possible."

Lewis Hamilton, McLaren
"We launched the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes team in (Valencia) at the start of 2007, and I’ve tested at the Ricardo Tormo circuit so the city isn’t unfamiliar to me. Anyway, going to a new circuit doesn’t really change my preparations: everybody’s in the same situation so I don’t treat things very differently. Of course, we’ve done some preparation back at the McLaren Technology Centre ahead of this race, but our main focus will still be the three free practice sessions ahead of qualifying. I’ll be working closely with my engineers to make sure we start the weekend with a good baseline and work hard to strengthen it as we go through the weekend. I enjoy visiting new racetracks and I’m looking forward to getting into the cockpit on Friday morning. It looks like being an amazing track."

Martin Whitmarsh, McLaren Formula One CEO
"In terms of car set-up, we need to remember that, like Monaco, the track will be both green and dusty on the opening day of practice. That sometimes tempts you into playing with set-up more than you would like, so you need to resist that temptation and let the track come to the car. Our simulations suggest we’ll employ a downforce level similar to that of Hockenheim, but the individual demands of the track may push that window up or down. Finally, anybody who’s studied any onboard footage of the circuit will be mindful of the proximity of the concrete barriers in certain areas - clearly, we’ll be packing plenty of spares, but hoping we won’t need to use them!

"The most important thing is to be thorough, methodical and iterative. Although we arrive at a new racetrack having undertaken a huge amount of research and armed with an enormous amount of data, the reality is that it’s really only the starting point for our engineering team. We begin Friday practice the way we would at any other circuit, but in this instance, we need to pay particular attention both to driver feedback and the data generated from the car. The important thing is not to react too hastily - it’s vital that you don’t end up going down the wrong path, because you only have a limited amount of time to tune the set-up before qualifying."

Norbert Haug, Vice President, Mercedes-Benz Motorsport
"When you think about temporary street races in Formula One, you mainly think about Monaco. However, Valencia does not have very much in common with this classic race; just that both cities are located on the Mediterranean coast and that both circuits lead along the harbour front. While the Monte Carlo race is the slowest of the year with an average speed of about 156 km/h for the fastest lap, and is also the shortest with a race distance of almost 254 kilometres, we face a race distance of 310 kilometres in Valencia and a track on which the cars will reach 300 km/h or more five times per lap. Three times per lap the drivers also have to brake to about 80 km/h which will be as extremely demanding for the brakes as the Montreal circuit. The longest full throttle section will be along the harbour where the drivers will drive at full throttle for 13 seconds. The front straight is 185 metres long and the shortest of all Formula One circuits this year. We calculated an average speed per lap of 225 km/h which will be the eighth fastest of all Grand Prix tracks. This is not typical for a street race; it is more like a version of Silverstone or Monza but located in a city.

"Our technicians at Mercedes-Benz HighPerformanceEngines in Brixworth and Stuttgart work out the circuit simulation data together with our partner McLaren Racing and use them for the engine dyno simulation. The work on the dyno is based on calculated gear ratios, revs and gear changes. According to that we find the optimum engine response and we also optimise the calibration accordingly to match the demands of the Valencia circuit as well as requirements of our drivers. This preparation is particularly important for a new circuit, for which we don’t have data from testing or races - in the end, it can be crucial to tackle qualifying and race in the best possible shape."

 

[Pupik]

Overlay of the circuit upon satellite/aerial images:
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=39.4586782&lon=-0.3322721&z=16&l=0&m=a&v=2

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

For those who haven't seen it, here's a lap of the circuit in an F3 car:

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I have to say that while the circuit layout looks great and that I'm all for the concept of street ciurcuits that aren't as tight as knotted rope, I'm a little disappointed with the setting. Watching the video from the F3 car and others on-board FIA GT racers, some of the background scenery really looks quite boring. I don't know what it is exactly, but parts of the circuit - like that back stretch - are just the safety barriers and then the sky; there's nothing to suggest we're in a city at all. I'm also a little unimpressed with that switchback at the end of the back straight; it strikes me as being really fiddly and would have made for a much more interesting corner if the cars went straight across it rather than back and forth.

 

[nissan tuner]

this circuit reminds me of the champ car courses

 

[Blake]

I’m really looking forward to this race. Looks like an awesome track and I think it should throw up some decent racing.

I really like the idea of such a wide, smooth, and fast circuit with walls, adds some risk into the typical modern type of track. I think the race at Valencia will be a big hit.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think the race at Valencia will be a big hit.

At least until Singapore (assuming the Formula One-by-night concept works; and if it does, I wouldn't be surprised if a few European rounds are run at night as well).

 

[PeterJB]

For those who haven't seen it, here's a lap of the circuit in an F3 car:

Put that in fast-forward and you've got a lap of the circuit in an F1 Car!

 

[PeterJB]

I have to say that while the circuit layout looks great and that I'm all for the concept of street ciurcuits that aren't as tight as knotted rope, I'm a little disappointed with the setting. Watching the video from the F3 car and others on-board FIA GT racers, some of the background scenery really looks quite boring. I don't know what it is exactly, but parts of the circuit - like that back stretch - are just the safety barriers and then the sky; there's nothing to suggest we're in a city at all. I'm also a little unimpressed with that switchback at the end of the back straight; it strikes me as being really fiddly and would have made for a much more interesting corner if the cars went straight across it rather than back and forth.

It's probably because the car is so low and the barriers are so high. When the race is televised there should be more to see.

 

[JohnBM01]

So it's time that the European Grand Prix shows up... good deal.

You know, this is going to be a tough track. You have to watch out for that corner called... uh,... oh, there's that intensely slow part of the track that... you need to be careful on that final section that sweeps left and has a very sharp corner (oh wait, not THAT Valencia).

You know what? This all comes down to adaptation. Athletes who win adapt to change. The one who can adapt best to unfamiliar territory will be the one that wins. This isn't the Valencia you may have raced in MotoGP games or Tourist Trophy. Instead, this Valencia involves the streets of Valencia. The Ricardo Tormo Communitat(?) Circuito de Valencia is a competitive track as it is. However, this street course looks to be quite exciting. Some racing has taken place before around the streets of Valencia. However, it will be F1's turn to lay down some rubber on the streets of Valencia. I figured I'll add this excerpt from a book I bought over the weekend for more info on Valencia itself:

"Spain's third-largest city is an industrialized conurbation on the east coast. After being conquered by the Moors (who seized it back from the Spanish national hero El Cid), Valencia was finally retaken by James I of Aragon in 1238. Thereafter it became one of the Mediterrenean's major cities, with considerable influence over the development of Spain- for example, it was Valencian merchants who funded Queen Isabella's sponsorship of the historic voyage undertaken by Christopher Columbus in 1492...There is also much to like about the Valencia that grew up outside the old city walls (now demolished), with its broad avenues and striking modern architecture, notable the amazing City of Arts and Sciences by celebrated local architect Santiago Calatrava that attracts four million visitors annually." - "501 Must-Visit Cities" by Octopus Books

This book shows a picture of the Plaza del Ayuntamiento. Not sure if the F1 track will feature this landmark, but I've recently been fond of Spanish architecture, especially more of the Old World style buildings. I don't know what to expect when F1 comes to these streets. All I know is that they want to see one person win more than anyone else on that race weekend- Fernando Alonso. Again, this isn't about who can find the winning combination around here. To me, it's more about who can adapt best. This is a virtual unknown unless you skipped F1 (why would you do that?) and did some rounds at the Valencia circuit. We're all going to get a better idea of what this course has to offer when we start seeing it in pictures. The track's layout may well be its own permanent road course. It's a very exciting configuration. No shortage of action around these parts. After this race, I'll be highly interested in how Singapore will be like next month.

So who will adapt to a new challenge best and come out on top? We'll see when this race takes the green light.

 

[Muzaffar]

After looking at that video, the track looks rather good for a street circuit. Almost like what most street circuit in Champ Car. 👍 Well can't wait for next week, and see who will be the first to crash their cars into the barrier.

 

[PeterJB]

After looking at that video, the track looks rather good for a street circuit. Almost like what most street circuit in Champ Car. 👍 Well can't wait for next week, and see who will be the first to crash their cars into the barrier.

No doubt both Force India's will crash into the barriers at the first turn and destroy their nice new Gearboxes!

 

[Touring Mars]

It's probably because the car is so low and the barriers are so high. When the race is televised there should be more to see.

👍 Probably... let's hope so anyway, since it looks pretty, well, un-pretty... however, it looks like a good circuit... challenging for the drivers to max the racing line without touching the walls, but more open and flowing than Monte Carlo... and it's always great to see a new circuit for the first time. Should be a cracking race

 

[PeterJB]

It looked like the F3 car was about to hit half of the barriers around the track. Imagine how close 20 cars scrambling for first place will be!

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

Yeah, we'll have to see it in action to appreciate the treacheries of driving more than 20 F1 cars at once on this track.

I was also watching the video of the GT race in Valencia, and one of the things they mentioned is that the shadows add more pitfalls to the track. It's because when you race a course with so many connected turns, you need to find some kind of checkpoint to know where you are and what's coming next. Well, with high barriers, almost no discernible landmark and the shadows blending the corners together, I can see a few drivers running straight into a wall at high speed. Altough, it depends on what time of day they race.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That's interesting, compunded by projections that Valencia will be the eighth-fastest circuit on the calendar ...

 

[JohnBM01]

We all hinted a bit on the Valencia street course from the Hungarian Grand Prix. I haven't seen the video yet (still with dialup). All I'm going on is pictures of past races around Valencia. I don't know what to expect with this track. Now, rFactor Central ( http://www.rfactorcentral.com ) has had someone make the track for rFactor. I do somewhat admit that some of the views of Valencia aren't really spectacular (even though I've fell in love with Spanish architecture lately). The track layout is pretty exciting as I've mentioned. That long backstretch is going to be pretty interesting.

Learning to adapt to a new track and a new challenge is plenty interesting. In honor of Back to School weekend, I want you all to be teachers for a day. Everything from A, B, C, D, and F will be answers. Based on what you've seen in pictures and videos of this track, give grades to this track in the following "subjects":

* Track Layout
* Track Environment (surroundings and layout)
* Level of Challenge
* Overall



This would be my report card for Valencia before the F1 GP even starts:

Track Layout: A+
" Environment: B+
* Level of Challenge: A
* Overall: A-



How about you?

 

[Muzaffar]

Well here is the rFactor lap of the Valencia Circuit:



So anyhow, the track does looks a lot more interesting from that view instead of the one from the F3 car. Also I expect the F1 cars to do a lap on average at 1.35.xxx. to 1.40.xxx. It would be look almost like the one in the video, except the lap would be much more smoother. I might guess some of the drivers should have driven a lap on their simulators or something..... 👍

 

[Sureboss]

👍 Probably... let's hope so anyway, since it looks pretty, well, un-pretty... however, it looks like a good circuit... challenging for the drivers to max the racing line without touching the walls, but more open and flowing than Monte Carlo... and it's always great to see a new circuit for the first time. Should be a cracking race

You want hanging baskets with flowers in? A palm tree in the middle of the pit straight, perhaps?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You want hanging baskets with flowers in? A palm tree in the middle of the pit straight, perhaps?

Well, Formula One is pretty much the most glamourous sport in the world. It just strikes me that maybe being in a picturesque city furthers that image; it certainly does so in Monaco. And while most of the circuit looks better from the F1 car as seen in the rFactor mod, the section from turn five down to turn twelve-thirteen looks incredibly bland.

 

[Ardius]

Learning to adapt to a new track and a new challenge is plenty interesting. In honor of Back to School weekend, I want you all to be teachers for a day. Everything from A, B, C, D, and F will be answers. Based on what you've seen in pictures and videos of this track, give grades to this track in the following "subjects":

* Track Layout
* Track Environment (surroundings and layout)
* Level of Challenge
* Overall



This would be my report card for Valencia before the F1 GP even starts:

Track Layout: A+
" Environment: B+
* Level of Challenge: A
* Overall: A-



How about you?

Well, I'd prefer to give it marks out of 10 rather than grades, grades are too vague.
But anyway:

Track Layout: 8
Enviroment: 5
Level of Challenge: 7
Overall: 7

I like the layout because it will encourage some great racing and is a welcome change to the usual street circuit. So an 8 here.
The enviroment I gave a 5 because although the track is in a great location, the high walls detract too much and it is an awful lot of gray colour.
I can't really tell how difficult the track is yet, but I gave it a 7 on the assumption that the close barriers and high speed nature of the track will make it difficult to avoid at least some contact.
Overall, a nice track, looks great to race on, but not so good to look at from the drivers point of view, although doesn't matter much it would be pretty dull if every race was the constant gray we see here. Still, I look forward to some great racing so I give a 7 overall.

 

[Mr P]

That track looks awesome! .. gotta be plenty of overtaking opportunities in those corners with wide run off areas, can't wait now 👍 Thanks for posting the vid Super Numbber

 

[Only_in_f1]

Track Layout: 9
Environment: 4
Level of Challenge: 8
Overall: 8.

I down loaded this track for GTR2 and its a very good track to drive, albeit virtually.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

That track looks awesome! .. gotta be plenty of overtaking opportunities in those corners with wide run off areas, can't wait now 👍 Thanks for posting the vid Super Numbber

Anytime, my friend It (the track) definitely has its own style.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Too wide.

Barriers are too high, its a concrete canyon. Extremely ugly. The location is also not the best as this is a simple port, not exactly a riviera.

Everything else is good though, im looking forward to the race, though my excitement for singapore is much greater.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'd rather a wide street circuit than a narrow one. At least now there's the possibility of overtaking.

 

[JohnBM01]

At least (according to what I know) this course isn't like Macau or anything. If Valencia were Macau-wide (meaning only two lanes in the later portions of the course), then EVERYBODY would be screwed on the streets of Valencia.

The track is a virtual unknown for just about all of these drivers. I say the one who adjusts the best will win the race. So in a game of "Who Am I?"...

"I am going to be the one who will adjust the best on this brand new circuit and win the race." So... who am I (in other words, who do you have winning this race)?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I say the one who adjusts the best will win the race.

Correct. For that reason, I think it's between Kimi Raikkonen and Lewis Hamilton. Kimi has always shown he can learn new circuits quickly and last year Lewis showed he can do the same, even winning two races in a row at two circuits he's never been to.

 

[Metar]

Guys, the drivers had a three-week break. If they didn't race it on the simulators during that time, they should eat my hair and go home. Remember, it's nothing like rFactor and GTR2, their simulators are actually used to determine setups. How else did they manage to race at Fuji?

 

[Ardius]

Guys, the drivers had a three-week break. If they didn't race it on the simulators during that time, they should eat my hair and go home. Remember, it's nothing like rFactor and GTR2, their simulators are actually used to determine setups. How else did they manage to race at Fuji?

Perhaps, but testing and actually being under pressure on the track are two different things.
Their simulators are not that far ahead of commercial ones, I wouldn't be surprised if they were a little bit behind actually.

I have no idea who will adapt best to this track, but judging by the start of the season when they had to adapt to racing with no traction control, I think it can be said that some drivers may take this a little too easy.