2013 Formula 1 United States Grand Prix
- Thread starter Whodoyouthink
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- HamiltonMP427
Really don't see how but okay, the RB team do seem slightly worried. While others feel they have everything needed to win the WCC/WDC next year (MGP, Ferrari) so...
We'll see how the rule changes work out, but supposedly the MB engine is the most powerful and expected to be the best in other areas, we'll see. I hope they are since I am backing MGP for awhile it'd seem.
Also love the stage left exit by Webber after the interview.
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Shame about these tyres in F1, hope Pirelli can make tyres you can push on for a good number of laps without destroying potentially your race. If they get them tyres sorted, hopefully fuel management is not the new factor to make drivers passengers in racing other cars. Amazing how boring this race becomes compared to last year due to having to pace manage a lot the tyres. Just wonder what we missed out on if he had Bridgestones with Kers and DRS. Lap after lap fighting on the limit I would imagine for most of the race.
Well done to Sebastian on the record and the doughnuts. Maybe he is setting a record of doing the most post-race doughnuts consecutively too
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Well done to Sebastian on the record and the doughnuts. Maybe he is setting a record of doing the most post-race doughnuts consecutively too
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mister dog
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I would like to see different tyre manufacturers also; imagine a grid with Pirelli, Michelin and Bridgestone that would be bound to shake things up.
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I personally prefer it with one tyre manufacturer, then it is fair on all the teams. Just want tyres you can push, before you could follow high downforce cars with Bridgestones, now with cars with less downforce but more overtaking tools struggle to stay close to other cars for a few laps. Shows you how much Pirelli have been helped by the regulations as I think without them changes, and if it was like 2010, competitive overtaking situation would have been much worse. Limited racing line with tyres not being able to handle the downforce levels without severe pace management and no chance of leaning on tyres close to others with so much turbulent air for more than a handful of laps. If they struggle to overtake now with DRS and Kers on similar life tyres and potentially less turbulent air, then I think it would have been a disaster for racing in F1.
Anyway just seeing some highlights of the race, if I recall correctly is this the third race in a row, Jenson has gone into the back of someone doing damage to his front wing? Maybe he can achieve some kind of record if it continues this up
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- 637
- NH
- Whodoyouthink
Bloody commercials stuffing up the airtime...I swear they replayed the same 4-5 commercials for like 6-7mins shortly after the race completed. Don't even think we got to see the podium stuff live, thanks to some technical difficulties. There was this annoying schreeching that they took a while to fix.
I really thought they would nail this one, but nope they had to be incredibly sucky!
Also I'm severely disappointed there were no cowboy podium hats this year...just the regular caps 👎.
Tired Tyres
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I usually watch via the interwebs, but since this was on my local station I put it on. They went to the first commercial break and I immediately turned the TV off. Ain't nobody got time for that jazz.
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I don't see the spectacle you are seeing with this type of racing. Webber was behind Grosjean after first corner and even with fastest car and overtaking tools like DRS and Kers, couldn't overtake. Even cars out of position from mixed up qualifying struggling to make up positions all while visibly driving slowly. Even on Vettel's fastest lap, visibly he was taking it easy. It is a shock when I see onboards of racing before Pirelli came in, the visible and actual pace difference is quite a gap. You can see it also on drivers faces after getting out of the car, they were are not being pushed that much. Even on race winning pace, Horner joked that he shouldn't need to have the water with the pace management he is doing if I recall correctly.
Tyres that promote helplessness overtaking and limit defensive driving and reduce competitive overtaking is not my idea of a good spectacle. It is quite funny hearing these top drivers, all they want to know is about tyres, they themselves don't seem to really know how slow or fast they have to go to get in the window to make it to end of race without losing a lot of time.
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- Wardez
- Wardez
It's the tires, I don't mind DRS and KERS at all. That's the sweet spot, 2012 Pirelli's that are well understood by teams, if they just stop switching up so much and kept similar tires for this year the racing would've been a lot better.
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The '12 tires have turned what was shaping up to be a awesome season with 4 teams competing for the WDC/WCC into a Vettel/Red Bull snorefest. How can this be better?
edit: I guess some people hve forgotten the '10 season... Drivers were not hindered by tires in the races, most races were 1 stop (rules enforce thos) only... Yet the races only got interesting when fast cars run into trouble and had to fight trought he mid field.
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I don't think season would be exciting with exploding tyres, rather concerning for drivers. The problem is now fast cars behind with overtaking aids struggle to make up positions compared to 2010. Also gaps between drivers were much closer too if I remember in 2010. The tyres have hindered competitive overtaking as well as defensive driving in my opinion. It is interesting to see the strategies of drivers like Webber for example, back off a lot to get tyres into right window then try and attack for a few laps and hope you can get close enough to pass. Hamilton managed his tyres waiting for Alonso to sense that he could overtake him by driving on the limit then taking off putting Alonso in a difficult situation for the rest of the race
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- 637
- NH
- Whodoyouthink
Funny how in the WEC, ALMS, etc. where stretching your tires as far as they can go is common place, we still see more overtaking than in F1.
Look at Moto GP though, especially the COTA race. No pitstops at all (unless it's Australia and the newly paved track eats tires), the tires last the whole race, and there are no overtaking tools or gimmicks. Even still, the COTA race was practically a parade unfortunately, and Once Marc Marquez took the lead from Pedrosa, it was done. Not a single occasion where the lead changed again even for a split second. And through out the rest of the field there wasn't much changes either.
I guess a lot Moto GP races are like that though...but my point is even when we can do everything in our power to encourage more overtaking, races can and will go the way of a parade.
Look at Moto GP though, especially the COTA race. No pitstops at all (unless it's Australia and the newly paved track eats tires), the tires last the whole race, and there are no overtaking tools or gimmicks. Even still, the COTA race was practically a parade unfortunately, and Once Marc Marquez took the lead from Pedrosa, it was done. Not a single occasion where the lead changed again even for a split second. And through out the rest of the field there wasn't much changes either.
I guess a lot Moto GP races are like that though...but my point is even when we can do everything in our power to encourage more overtaking, races can and will go the way of a parade.
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- HamiltonMP427
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The problem is not the tires. The problem is the cars are too competent. The cars are too fast.
If racing cars are correctly set up, then they will make the best time on the racing line, and any overtaking attempt is doomed. Especially if the drivers are afraid of damage or penalties for banging wheels.
Then, you rely on teams getting the set ups wrong or drivers making mistakes.
Without the "artificially" fragile tires, most drivers on the grid are competent enough not to make mistakes that will lead to an overtake. Even if a guy is slow enough to hold you back to the tune of half-a-second a lap, like, say, Jarno Trulli in a Toyota, Formula 1 cars are fast enough that a slingshot (without DRS or KERS) will not work within a 1,000 meter straight. Obviously, though, the fans don't want them to be slower.
If we want overtaking in F1, we need to remove more downforce. Remove more mechanical grip. Give the cars rear tires that can't cope with 1,000 horses.
But there's a fine balancing act. If we make F1 cars too slow, then it will no longer be F1 for the fans. It'll be just another open-wheel series.
The racing is not great this year partially because of the tires. But also because they changed formulas halfway, and Red Bull came up roses. If we kept on with the tires at the start of the season, Vettel will probably still have won, (because Red Bull can definitely outdevelop Ferrari and Lotus) but he would have had to work for it more.
If racing cars are correctly set up, then they will make the best time on the racing line, and any overtaking attempt is doomed. Especially if the drivers are afraid of damage or penalties for banging wheels.
Then, you rely on teams getting the set ups wrong or drivers making mistakes.
Without the "artificially" fragile tires, most drivers on the grid are competent enough not to make mistakes that will lead to an overtake. Even if a guy is slow enough to hold you back to the tune of half-a-second a lap, like, say, Jarno Trulli in a Toyota, Formula 1 cars are fast enough that a slingshot (without DRS or KERS) will not work within a 1,000 meter straight. Obviously, though, the fans don't want them to be slower.
If we want overtaking in F1, we need to remove more downforce. Remove more mechanical grip. Give the cars rear tires that can't cope with 1,000 horses.
But there's a fine balancing act. If we make F1 cars too slow, then it will no longer be F1 for the fans. It'll be just another open-wheel series.
The racing is not great this year partially because of the tires. But also because they changed formulas halfway, and Red Bull came up roses. If we kept on with the tires at the start of the season, Vettel will probably still have won, (because Red Bull can definitely outdevelop Ferrari and Lotus) but he would have had to work for it more.
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Exactly but along with relying on opposing teams to make a mistake too, you're also relying on your team even more to perform on Saturday and get you as far up the grid as possible. Then it becomes as bad as it is now as far as crazies saying that the race is decided on Saturday, ten years ago I would absolutely agree but now days anything happens but as Niky points out, just not enough.
As for the Mechanical grip and aero grip, I think it should be given the ability to do more really in the way they're implemented rather than limiting teams (especially mid to smaller) they should have more. It's quite easy for the upper teams especially those with massively talented engineers to find solutions with in the narrow bounds set. I agree that the cars should be allowed to handle high amounts of power and to be frank, I'd rather them open of the engine rules to a degree where anything from V8 2.4 to 1.2L 4cylinders and have various set ups.
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New engine type and rules are bound to shake it up a little. They do have Newey tough...
Rule changes tend to just make Red Bull even faster. We're stuck in a loop now. What we need is no rule changes. That way they'll still be faster, but not as much. 💡
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- HamiltonMP427
Something people are forgetting is that the Newey package has one big flaw and that is the technical end of things. When rules are changed it never fails that the cars he creates end up having troubles due to his constant chasing of perfect aero, and then compromising other aspects. With a new transmission package along with different engines the 2014 for Red Bull might not be so pretty. We saw this during the mid 00s change and McLaren suffered, we saw this 2010 at it's worse for RBR and then years later it became a smaller and smaller issue.Same thing happened in 91 and then they got it fixed by mid season and onward. So there is a very real chance that the first two years of rules may cause struggle for RBR.
That is something we all should take into consideration before we get too downtrodden about it.
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mister dog
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Tzi brokeback mountain!
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Maybe Silverstone was an one off... There weren't any major issues before. Drivers taking it easy? They always have since refueling came back. Just check 2010. You say it was closer, which is not true. Red Bull still dominated, the team and Vettel only lacked expierience and coolness compared to this years Red Bull. Races were snorefest whoch were over after lap 1.
Frigging refuel ban, 2000 was the best season ever with Michael and Mika batteling it out on every races track, always giving 100%.
DRS/Kers/Pirelli have saved F1 Racing. As long as cars are heavily aero reliant, overtaking will be next to impossible.
