2014 Grosser Preis Von Österreich (Austrian GP)

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I wouldn't say McLaren are bad. Sauber are bad. McLaren just aren't good. Their problem is that the midfield is fairly tightly packed, with Williams, Force India, Ferrari and the odd Toro Rosso, and McLaren have a car with a really narrow operating range. One bad weekend will throw them entirely.

As for Mercedes, it wasn't an MGU-K issue this time. It was just brake temperatures. They are using smaller calipers and pads, and as Martin Brundle pointed out, three big stops in quick succession did them no favours.
 
Sauber have a Ferrari motor. Given their pace relative to other Mercedes runners, I'd say McLaren would probably be having as bad a year as Sauber or Lotus.

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Still happening at the rear axle, though, isn't it?
 
Because Raikkonen is his teammate, and it's not Alonso's job to criticise him.

It's not anybody's job to criticise him, but I don't see that stopping people. Alonso is as entitled to his two cents as the next bloke.
 
It's not anybody's job to criticise him, but I don't see that stopping people. Alonso is as entitled to his two cents as the next bloke.

When you're working in a team, you don't criticise your team mates, you let whoever's managing the team do that. That's pretty much rule #1 of team work.
 
Because Raikkonen is his teammate, and it's not Alonso's job to criticise him.
Well, someone needs to, because Räikkönen is seriously under-performing. In terms of what he is achieving relative to what he is capable of, he's probably the worst driver on the grid. At this rate, I'd be surprised if he finishes the season. I'd wager that the only thing keeping him in the team is Mattiachi's unwillingness to change too much, too quickly.
 
Well, someone needs to, because Räikkönen is seriously under-performing. In terms of what he is achieving relative to what he is capable of, he's probably the worst driver on the grid. At this rate, I'd be surprised if he finishes the season. I'd wager that the only thing keeping him in the team is Mattiachi's unwillingness to change too much, too quickly.

I'm fairly certain Raikkonen is working with the team to improve on the areas he's struggling with. Alonso criticising him for struggling doesn't help anyone.
 
I'm fairly certain Raikkonen is working with the team to improve on the areas he's struggling with.
Well, whatever he's doing, it's obviously not working.

If it were any other driver, Alonso would be well within his rights to criticise Räikkönen. But since it's Räikkönen, he is held to a different standard for some bizarre and inexplicable reason.

If what he has produced is the best he has to offer, and if after eight races he has shown no sign of improvement, then he should be let go.
 
Well, whatever he's doing, it's obviously not working.

If it were any other driver, Alonso would be well within his rights to criticise Räikkönen. But since it's Räikkönen, he is held to a different standard for some bizarre and inexplicable reason.

If what he has produced is the best he has to offer, and if after eight races he has shown no sign of improvement, then he should be let go.

When did I say Raikkonen was special? The same rule applies for everyone, don't criticise your team mate, even if they're Maldonado.
 
And where is this rule written?

Räikkönen deserves criticism - he isn't doing a very good job, and history is likely to remember him as another Ivan Capelli. Protocol and etiquette be damned - if what he is producing is the best he has to offer, then he has no business being in that seat.
 
And where is this rule written?

Räikkönen deserves criticism - he isn't doing a very good job, and history is likely to remember him as another Ivan Capelli. Protocol and etiquette be damned - if what he is producing is the best he has to offer, then he has no business being in that seat.
That would be the "Don't **** in your own back yard" rule
 
I don't see how it is a problem. The criticism is justified.
People have already explained how it is a problem. There are certain etiquette norms that one has to abide if one elects to be not an asshole.

Granted being an asshole is a constitutionally protected right.
 
People have already explained how it is a problem. There are certain etiquette norms that one has to abide if one elects to be not an asshole.

Granted being an asshole is a constitutionally protected right.
The US constitution does not work for the entire world, especially when that world is Formula 1.
 
There are certain etiquette norms that one has to abide if one elects to be not an asshole.
Räikkönen has shown a complete lack of respect to his team in the past - the infamous "leave me alone, I know what I'm doing" message is a testament to that - so why should the team bother respecting him?

Alonso hasn't done anything wrong, except state the obvious.
 
The US constitution does not work for the entire world, especially when that world is Formula 1.
i'm just being clever really. But it's hard to take Alonso seriously when last year he was fighting Vettel and it was Hamilton who was the GOAT, and now Massa is his best teammate eva-hr. He's one media comment away from being on Piquet level of blabbermouthery, although considering that Piquet antics came while fighting for titles, Alo might already have passed him.
 
Räikkönen has shown a complete lack of respect to his team in the past - the infamous "leave me alone, I know what I'm doing" message is a testament to that - so why should the team bother respecting him?

Alonso hasn't done anything wrong, except state the obvious.
So Alonso is taking revenge on Raikkonen for being rude to his race engineer in Lotus? Dude that's not logic, that's just something personal you have for Kimi.
 
Sorry but what exactly did Alonso say? Tried to find the origin of this discussion and it's just a post from "HKS Racer" saying he is tired of Alonso constantly remarking he is better than Raikkonen, but there's no source, at least I didn't find one.
 
Sorry but what exactly did Alonso say? Tried to find the origin of this discussion and it's just a post from "HKS Racer" saying he is tired of Alonso constantly remarking he is better than Raikkonen, but there's no source, at least I didn't find one.

I've just been addressing the point about drivers criticising team mates in general, I haven't seen anyone show the comments that Alonso apparently made.

@prisonermonkeys There isn't a written rule, it's called etiquette, and it's generally considered being a bit of an ass if you criticise your team mates.
 
Ferrari (James Allison) publicly said Kimi was/is driving slower than Alonso, so I'm sure the discussion was a continuation of that with Alonso saying something similar to it.
 
Whether or not he says anything, he's perfectly within his rights to talk about other drivers, as long as he doesn't hit below the belt or trash talk. And even if he does, he's still within his rights as a human being to say what's on his mind.

I'd rather have drivers whine and moan like Primadonnas than parrot corporate PR speak like robots, thank you. I don't know what sport people all are watching where drivers are expected to kiss everyone else's behinds on the team. Respect, yes, but honesty first and foremost.

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Though I can't believe that discussion went on for that long without anyone asking @HKS racer for a citation.
 
it's a case of "you're not wrong you're just an asshole"

Pretty much. It's a dick thing to say, but Alonso's more that welcome to be a dick if he wants. It seems to work for him.

When you're working in a team, you don't criticise your team mates, you let whoever's managing the team do that. That's pretty much rule #1 of team work.

You DO watch Formula 1, right? The one with the guys with enormous egos that are constantly criticising their team mates, the team, the FIA, and anyone else who has talked to them in the last decade?

I didn't say it was a quality idea to bag Raikkonen. But it's sort of par for the course, and to say that Alonso is less entitled to state his opinion that anybody else is just silly. He's entitled to piss off as many people as he wants.

Frankly, a fair amount of people will respect him for not spouting corporate BS, and the media people will love him because it's a free story. If Ferrari want to ditch him for being an asshole, then they can go right ahead. I'm sure there's plenty of teams out there that would like their very own Fernando Alonso.
 
I see ... well, until proven otherwise, I don't read anywhere Alonso commenting on Raikkonen so I'm calling BS on the last two pages of this thread.

Now ... prove me wrong please so I can enter a discussion on Alonso's character and intra team etiquette.

EDIT - Here's what the ESPNF1 staff got from Ferrari:

ESPNF1
Ferrari


Fernando Alonso (4th): "I think that I can consider this to be my best race of the season, because finishing eighteen seconds off the Mercedes in a race without a Safety Car or any particular incidents, is a good result. It was impossible to keep Hamilton behind me and fifth place is really the best we could do today, because the first four cars were quicker and therefore deserved to finish ahead of us. We pushed hard all race without any problems, which means that little by little, we are improving. Sure, there's still a long way to go but the aim is still to do well and score points. Each track is a different story and we will always try our best."



Kimi Raikkonen (10th): "This was another very difficult race for me, despite having gone in a different direction yesterday to try and improve the performance. Unfortunately, it did not bring the improvements I'd hoped for and again here I found myself fighting the handling of the car. At the start I made up one place, but already on the second lap I began to have a problem with the brakes overheating and this meant I had to slow down.

"At the time of my first pit stop, my tyres were completely worn and on my in-lap alone I lost two places. We should definitely have stopped sooner. Compared to the start of the season, progress has been made, even if there's still a lot to do as our speed still doesn't allow us to fight for the top places."

Marco Mattiacci, team principal: "The way this season is going becomes particularly evident when one races at a track where what counts the most is the power of the car. Today, we tried to get the most out of what we have and we believe we have taken another small step in the right direction. Unfortunately, we were unable to demonstrate that with Kimi, who did not have an easy time on this circuit, but we are sure that with the progressive improvement of the car he too will be able to show what he's capable of. Fernando could not have done any better today.

"He managed to maintain a great pace for the whole race, at times even quicker than the leaders and this must serve as an incentive to continue developing the F14 T. Overall the gaps are coming down and the number of teams fighting it out behind the frontrunners is increasing. So our aim is to exploit all our potential to be at the front of the pursuing group."

Pat Fry: "After a good start both Kimi and Fernando struggled a lot on the Supersoft because of graining on the rears which slowed their pace. In this stint, a gap grew to the Mercedes-engined cars which made the most of their superior power down the three straights. Apart from the actual result, we can nevertheless be pleased because in the second and third stints, especially with Fernando, we were one of the quickest cars on track and that shows that, race by race, we are making small steps forward.

"Kimi struggled more than Fernando and unfortunately, with him we paid a high price for his in-lap before his first stop when the rear tyres were on the limit. Now we must look ahead to the next race in Silverstone, a very different circuit to this one, where we can also expect the Red Bulls to be back on form. As usual we will try and be in the fight and to prepare our car as well as possible for this new challenge."


Read more at http://en.espnf1.com/austria/motorsport/story/164041.html#UEokXPikU2er4Jfe.99


EDIT2 - Alonso on autosport. Still no words about Raikkonen
 
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@Hun200kmh @niky

http://www.automoto.it/formula1/formula-1-austria-2014-la-situazione-della-ferrari.html
«Sono arrivato quinto a 18 secondi dal vincitore e senza safety car, quindi è stata la mia miglior gara dell’anno. Ferrari migliorata? Se guardate il mio compagno di squadra che è decimo, non direi...»

Translated:
"I finished fifth at 18 seconds behind the winner without safety car, so it was my best race of the year. Ferrari improved? If you look at my teammate that is 10th, I wouldn't say so..."

If you want to read the rest google translator is your friend.

Maybe being a Raikkonen fan I'm considering these words a little bit too much.
Still not nice by a team mate emphasizing other team mate difficoult moment. I know we are in F1 big egos and stuff, but my point is if we are not going to win anyway please STFU or GTFOH, go to Honda and stress their lives. I'm fed up.
The problem is our engineers (Allison aside) sucks big times and they know we still need Alonso to float in a mediocre 5th place or we will end up battling for disastrous 10th with slightly less faster drivers. That's the real problem I think.

So, Alonso is pissed because he can't win and start bashing team-mate and team regoularly. Raikkonen is pissed because those incompetents gave tham a freaking truck instead of a F1 and he also pissed by Alonzo.
Ferrari fans are pissed by the whole Ferrari situation and a F1 regulations that don't allow any decent power unit improvement whatsoever. So yes, it's time to stop watiching all of this. And Mattiacci is a marketing snob manager everytime he speaks he say lots of cool words but the phrase makes very little sense. Woah, to hell with all of them.
 
How is that bashing a teammate? If anything, he's saying that the team needs to do more to get both cars competitive...
Which is impossible because of regulations as Mattiacci said (which is one of few things he is spot on).
So yes, if we can't improve engine by regulation I'm officially done for this season. Go ahead watching Mercedes parade.
 
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