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- Organ-Donor
GT3 đź‘Ť
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2014 United Sports Car Championship
- Thread starter Earth
- 6,133 comments
- 266,891 views
- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/exclusive-esm-enters-fia-wec-at-cota-scales-back-tusc-entry/ Relevant as well. Just breaking.
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Am I the only one who thinks the GTD grid will shrink now? All of those Porsche GT Americas are likely to be noncompetitive against full-bore GT3 cars, and the only thing they had going for them was the price.
Note the logo on the right side... the promo art is meant to represent both series, so there the likelihood of the Viper's appearing (without any FIA/ACO BoP announced) is nil.
Makes sense since it has been on the promo art for months,now where are those Vipers.
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Note the logo on the right side... the promo art is meant to represent both series, so there the likelihood of the Viper's appearing (without any FIA/ACO BoP announced) is nil.
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- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
Switch to GT3 comes on the heels of Porsche saying "Yeah were not doing the 911A anymore"
They'll make sick track-day cars.
They'll make sick track-day cars.
- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
- one more year for PC next year by the way. Seems to have been slightly ignored with the GT3 hoopla going around.
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
So first Porsche abandons the 911 America GT thing, and then there's a rumour that they canceled plans of a new 911 GT3 (class) race car. What the heck is up with Porsche? O_O
Lol, glad that the PC menace shall be tossed.
Get more spots for GTD/GT3 cars. 
Lol, glad that the PC menace shall be tossed.
Get more spots for GTD/GT3 cars.
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- catamount39
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I'm still wondering where that GT3 being cancelled news came from? And where did they announce the America being dropped? Not that it's surprising.So first Porsche abandons the 911 America GT thing, and then there's a rumour that they canceled plans of a new 911 GT3 (class) race car. What the heck is up with Porsche? O_O
Lol, glad that the PC menace shall be tossed.
- 6,271
- Tecumseh, MI
- I_Fail_At_FPS
My guess is that PC will either be scrapped or replaced with LMP3 when that class gets established. I wonder if Callaway will have the C7s ready to go, and if they are when the rules for GTD allow GT3, will GM let them run here?
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As discussed over in the GT thread, the likelihood of the Callaway vettes running in North America is almost nil. They are built in Germany and require the support of Callaway's base of operations... which is in Germany. The likelihood of them coming to America and offering a competitive support package with larger manufacturers is very, very small. And I don't believe GM will support them, since Cadillac is rumored to move into GT3.
The Callaway Vettes will most likely continue representing the Chevy and Corvette brands over in Europe where there isn't a Pratt & Miller factory operation to contend with.
So the only way we'll see a Callaway is if a private team insists on running a Corvette and doesn't mind being able to support the car by itself, which is the most likely possibility.
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- I_Fail_At_FPS
- 35,461
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Yeah, a team that basically can't keep up to begin with in one series and another team that has no interest in running any other series making a one-off is somehow sending a message to that foul TUSC. Give me a 🤬 break
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I'm confused about what your point is.
Pratt & Miller runs both the Corvette and Cadillac factory programs. The Callaway Corvette's will interfere with both of those if they come over to the U.S. since it will make the Factory GTLM program seem like a moot point, and would compete with the Cadillac factory program if they end up getting on.
Either way, they'd be contending with a Pratt & Miller operation, hence why I said it.
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How so? BMW sure doesn't have a problem with the Z4 GT3 being run over here so what exactly would make GM disallow them? GT3 cars are made for customer racing to begin with and seeing as the Corvette C7.R is only competing with ACO GTE factory cars and not FIA GT3 machines, I don't see how it would "Contend" with a Pratt & Miller Operation if a privateer team is running it.
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- catamount39
Yes but its a weird case here. BMW and the other manufactures of GT3 spec cars have large supporting casts which go out around the world to help their customers. GM technically has no "factory supported" GT3 entry, they only give money and stuff to Callaway to run GT3 Corvettes in Europe and support them. Such is the reason that a "real" GM GT3 effort is being talked about with Cadillac and the ATS-V(?) when the old regulation CTS-V is retired. If someone really...REALLY wanted to they could bring a Callaway car over here. But they would be on their own pretty much which would be expensive as 🤬 . Surprised that GM doesn't want the Vette to compete with the globally supported Viper.
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I do recall Turner mentioning that BMW was not ready, nor willing to support the BMW Z4 GT3 during pre-season Tudor talks before they announced they'd be racing the car. The Turner team was in a unique situation of being essentially a BMW factory support GT team with Grand Am, and since Turner operates a business centering around BMW's, I believe the arrangement was made to have the car run in GTD along side the factory BMW Z4 GTE's.
Since there was no factory-supported Chevy team that remained in GTD (Marsh went to DP's and Stevenson dropped down to CTSC GS), any possibility for that kind of overlap has been removed and the comparison isn't valid.
And I don't know how you can say that GT3 Cars are made for Customer racing and then say they wouldn't contend with Pratt & Miller when they're rumored to possibly develop a Cadillac Customer Racing program. Do you think they'd really allow them to compete for sales?
As I stated, nothing would stop a Callaway Vette being run here by a privateer team, but that team should be prepared to basically foot the entire bill for operating it. Something that is very un-attractive if Cadillac is sitting across the garage offering technical support and a dedicated and mainstreamed supply line of parts.
The only reason Aston's, Audi's, Ferrari's, McLaren's and Bentley's are being run in PWC and GTD is because the manufacturers are supporting the teams. Remember how Nissan was developing their GT-R for GTD? They couldn't find or ended up being unable to support a team running it, which is why we haven't seen it yet. GT Racing requires support and Callaway is small and far away. Just forget about it happening until GT3 racing becomes big enough that it can support both Cadillac's and Callaway's investment into a North American racing operation to justify it. Even though that would still require GM's approval, and they're not going to do that when they're funneling tons of money into Corvette Racing in the higher class racing the same type of car with the only difference being different technical regulations.
You guys are making it sound like racing in GT3 is as simple as buying a car and putting it on the road, and if something breaks, you just head down to the parts store and pick up a replacement piece. In reality, teams ask these questions when buying a car:
- Will I get money for winning in it?
- Will you be providing engineers and on-track technical assistance?
- Will you have a ready supply or spares for our car should I need to purchase them?
- Will you help develop the car to increase it's pace should it be uncompetitive?
- Will you provide competitive professional drivers for my team?
If all of those are a "no", then they move on to another car manufacturer, brand loyalty be damned. It's ultimately why GT3 cars have been slow to take on here, since it requires a significant investment in getting a parts supply in such a large country where there was previously none. It's also why Porsche is consistently one of the most popular brands that races here, because they have a very good, very well established customer racing network here in the US.
Well, the Callaway Vettes race the Viper in Europe, and the Pratt & Miller Vettes race the Viper here in the U.S. but in a much more televised class.
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- 35,461
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I think with Turner being a long time BMW Partner (and the only team in North America willing to run a BMW Z4 as the PWC as shown), I don't think there was much harm there.
Not sure March was really factory supported seeing as they were running a car that's old as hell and really is only run out of the pockets of their sponsor more so then GM.
That's assuming that even happens. I'm not going off the rumor, I'm going off a car that's much closer to existence then a Cadillac GT3 (which I do no see GM making as their global car otherwise why bother having Callaway make a GT3 Corvette?). Running in the GTD class with a privateer team would not be competing with their Caddy program (which I'm sure will stay in PWC).
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I'm well aware its not that simple so I don't even know why you're making that assumption I'm thinking like that. My point is what would make a privateer team from running a Corvette GT3 over here not in 2016, but next year. Personally, I'm not seeing a Cadillac GT3 happening because Corvette is their world brand and by having Callaway build one to compete against the same cars that's currently in GTD (ignore the Porsche GTA, pretend that never happened), it would make no sense to have two different cars on two different continents against the same cars.
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- CheetahsMeow
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Primarily because they're one of the few teams that are able to run a BMW with very little BMW support, given previous history of preparing their own race cars and the funds from the Turner BMW business, added with the need to run a BMW as a result of that business.
Their showing in PWC could be a sign of things to come, though.
More than likely not, but that's still one less Chevy team that would run the Vette. I say this because the only reason I see the Vette coming over is if someone HAS to run a Chevy... and even then I'd be willing to guess that the Reiter Camaro is a much more likely option of European Chevy transplanting itself over here given its much lower entry cost.
A fair point, for sure, but a rumor is stronger than "Well now GT3 cars are allowed, so now any GT3 car can and will show up to race!". Just because the Callaway Corvette is legal to participate doesn't mean it'll show up in the US just because it's an american car. It might as well be more of a German car than the German branded racing cars for all I'm concerned. And the Callaway Vette's are an established relationship in a very large GT3 market representing a car that isn't otherwise represented outside of Le Mans. In Europe, there's not a marketing conflict between the Corvette's from Pratt & Miller and the Callaway Corvette's like there would be in the US.
And I really don't see Cadillac developing a customer GT car (as we've well established) and not selling the cars to other teams, as well as sticking in a sprint series and not also competing in the endurance events. Cadillac is a good fit in GTD as it represents a different GM brand in a different class and doesn't compete marketing-wise against the Corvette's in GTLM.
That wasn't directed entirely at you and I wasn't implying you were assuming anything. I chose my words very carefully, please be considerate of that.
What's preventing it next year? What's preventing it now? Callaway Vette's could've been over here the first year of Audi's, Ferrari's etc. But they weren't. Why do you think that is?
At this moment, neither one of them are a likely possibility of running over here. the Cadillac's because nothing is finalized, and the Callaway's because they get paid to play in Europe. That's really all there is to it.
I wouldn't be arguing about any of this had the Callaway not gotten temporarily shelved during the GT convergence talks, which suggests that Pratt & Miller's work takes priority over Callaway's work in GM's eyes. So as long as those two have no common targeted markets for the Corvette, Callaway is allowed to exist.
Also, Cadillac would make perfect sense to develop, since it needs the marketing recognition around the globe to help grow and strengthen the brand. Especially in Europe where it has a relatively small market which has potential for growth.
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- 2,484
- oshkosh/WI
- MrWilso92
So anyway i'll be at Road America tomorrow.
- 22,551
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- HamiltonMP427
And Chrysler/Riley have less of a mess than GM/P&M/Callaway.Oh well, nice that another brand will be joining the GT3 ranks.
What's wrong with that, they already offer a GT3 Camaro as well that uses similar groups the Pratt and Miller Corvette Racing team use. Why not have options while expanding your global market outside of multiple series like WTCC, BTCC, V8s, NASCAR and all the GTE/GT3 stuff? Cutting down a bit to concentrate on the more primary sport car events is probably best for them.
01GTP
Premium
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- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
There's nothing wrong with it, and the Reiter Camaro GT3 car is a cool car. I was saying that I wished the Corvette had a GT3 option at least her in the states that could be supported and was just surprised that they would be choosing to run a Cadillac now world wide possibly. By mess I meant the relationship with Callaway they have in Europe in...what ever my tired brain was thinking at the time.
ATS-VR GT3...bring it on.
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- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
Bye Bye IMS!
EDIT Have a double blow - possibly no live coverage of CoTA or Petit Le Mans ?!
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/final-two-2014-tudor-races-to-air-on-fox/
EDIT Have a double blow - possibly no live coverage of CoTA or Petit Le Mans ?!
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/final-two-2014-tudor-races-to-air-on-fox/
