2014 United Sports Car Championship

[Northstar]

I said the bad driving standards that are seemingly ok wont fly in the ACO's eyes.

I agree, could you imagine if they let some idiot drive at Le Mans!!!

...oh wait, you don't have to imagine.



As long as the GTE-AM class exists it's hard to argue driving standards.

 

[Starciller]

That wreck horrifies me when I think what would have happened if the Toyota would have landed on its roof... Just because of a stupid act from another driver.

 

[cnd01]

As far as driver safety is concerned, should a carbon fiber safety cell be required for the tube framed DP, or is the car safe enough as is?

 

[polarbear345]

As far as driver safety is concerned, should a carbon fiber safety cell be required for the tube framed DP, or is the car safe enough as is?

Too expensive...

Sorry, had to...

 

[cnd01]

Too expensive...

Sorry, had to...

It's one thing to spend lots of money just to make the car faster. It paints a much different picture when driver safety is involved.

 

[Falcon787B]

Ideally, I would have liked to see a strong link with the ACO and some WEC events here in the states and USCR events across the pond eventually, but it doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon. Yes, the Vettes and Vipers sure got screwed this year, as did the Ferraris! There was plenty to moan about with the bop at the 24 this year. I still loved the race, when we got to see some racing instead of the safety car

Me too. But the ACO and it's FIA links are intent on cutting their nose off to spite their face by shunning US sportscar racing. And with the direction the FIA is going with motorsport (i.e. ruining every series it controls, including the WEC), I'm quite glad in a way. If ACO and USCR were on the same page pulling towards an ultimate goal of technology, spectacle and great racing then I'd be up for it.

Yeah it was a good race, but a frustrating one as it was waiting to explode but never did - thanks to the most ridiculous BOP nonsense I've seen in years. As it stood we had the makings of an epic battle in GT between fairly evenly matched Porsches, Aston Martins, Ferraris, Corvettes & Vipers, but for some reason the ACO slapped the latter three with BOP. The weirdest one was the Viper - a new car barely developed, oh yeah let's slap that down and make it's task even more difficult. Way to encourage new manufacturers ACO 👎

And of course it was overshadowed by the tragedy at the start. Shame really. Never mind, onto next year!

On the USCR front, here's how I view it: In Grand-Am, I get very close racing in DP and a variety of interesting cars in it's GT class. In ALMS I get interesting prototypes not crippled by silly ACO regulations in the Prototype divisions and thrilling close racing between top teams in the GTE class. Melt the two together, and we get: more variety of cars, more manufacturers, more different engines/technologies on the grid, but hopefully even more close racing. Win win, surely?

 

[hawkeye122]

So I was having a bit of a think... Why not merge the P2 and DP engine rules? Opens up the market to Nissan, Honda(Again), Judd-BMW... Just a thought.

 

[cnd01]

So I was having a bit of a think... Why not merge the P2 and DP engine rules? Opens up the market to Nissan, Honda(Again), Judd-BMW... Just a thought.

Well, grand am is open to turbo charged engines with the gen 3 DP. Ford has an ecoboost v6 turbo on the way for next year already. I think it's a good idea to merge the engine rules as that will make less of a transition for both sides.

 

[Mac K]

So I was having a bit of a think... Why not merge the P2 and DP engine rules? Opens up the market to Nissan, Honda(Again), Judd-BMW... Just a thought.

I thought of this earlier, it might be a few pages back by now

 

[Snaeper]

I still think the future of a DP's and P2's was inadvertently shown a few years ago by Mazda.

There's a car that showcases brand design language, incorporates innovated technology, could potentially be reduced in cost while still maintaining the majority of it's performance and cost goals, and is an exciting vehicle formula that could seriously entice manufacturers into competition.

Use production-based V6T's, V8's and possibly V10's and you've got a fine racing formula.

I also wish Dr. Panoz would relax his stranglehold on the Deltawing, keep it an open-cockpit, go back to the similar engine formula that was used by Nissan (1.6T), and open the door for more manufacturers to enter the series to showcase their small turbo motors. Hyundai/Kia, Dodge/Fiat, Ford, BMW/Mini, VW, Mazda and more could make small displacement racing turbo engines (based on production units) for a car that looks like nothing else in existence. Larger Diesel engines could also be an option alongside the small gas units.

GTE isn't broken, but Grand Am's GT needs to take the plunge and go full GT3 spec in my opinion. If GTE and GT3 ever end up being replaced by a single spec of cars, then you go to Pro/Pro and Pro/Am racing.

And GX was dead before it was born.

 

[Furinkazen]

The Furai is actually on a Courage LMP2 chassis.

 

[Snaeper]

The Furai is actually on a Courage LMP2 chassis.

Your point? If it was based on a road car would you have said "Well it's based on a road car, so it can't possibly inspire a DP/P2 successor!"?

I know it's based on an LMP2 car. The fact that it is doesn't change my point any more or less.

 

[cnd01]

I'd rather keep the tube frame chassis because it's cheaper to fix when the car crashes. Rather than buying a new tub, all that has to be done is cut the bent frame piece off and weld in another piece. Tube frames can be made pretty much as light as the carbon tub as well.

 

[hawkeye122]

GTE isn't broken, but Grand Am's GT needs to take the plunge and go full GT3 spec in my opinion. If GTE and GT3 ever end up being replaced by a single spec of cars, then you go to Pro/Pro and Pro/Am racing.

And GX was dead before it was born.

I feel that GTE should get a bit of a power boost, and then allow full GT3's to be the Pro-Am class. Let the factories keep their overall leads, let the gentlemen have close, diverse racing.

 

[Snaeper]

I'd rather keep the tube frame chassis because it's cheaper to fix when the car crashes. Rather than buying a new tub, all that has to be done is cut the bent frame piece off and weld in another piece. Tube frames can be made pretty much as light as the carbon tub as well.

I completely agree, but I wasn't going to mention that since it's really up to the rule makers to decide what they want to do with their cars.

My post was only talking about the appearance and overall feel the Furai concept presents.

If anything, I wonder what a carbon tub with tube sub-frames would be like. The tub remains light and technical, but the sub-frames remain cheap and easy to repair/replace in the event of damage. I'm not a race car engineer mind you, so I don't know if it would work, but a "Best of both worlds" situation wouldn't be half bad.

I feel that GTE should get a bit of a power boost, and then allow full GT3's to be the Pro-Am class. Let the factories keep their overall leads, let the gentlemen have close, diverse racing.

I realized after I wrote this that the performance similarities between the two would cause issues. Another option would be to reduce the aero on the GT3 cars with slightly smaller front and rear spoilers and no canards, similar to early GT3 cars.

 

[cnd01]

I feel that GTE should get a bit of a power boost, and then allow full GT3's to be the Pro-Am class. Let the factories keep their overall leads, let the gentlemen have close, diverse racing.

I do want full gt3 minus the traction control for the GTD class. I have a feeling it would get more interest from overseas considering there are 50+ cars per race overseas than the p1 and p2. Gte should get decent interest for the endurance rounds too.

@snaeper: the idea of a tube frame chassis with a carbon safety cell is being tossed around in rumors for 2016 atm.

 

[freshseth83]

I agree, could you imagine if they let some idiot drive at Le Mans!!!

...oh wait, you don't have to imagine.

As long as the GTE-AM class exists it's hard to argue driving standards.

The Ferrari has a large firewall behind the driver, in the road car its an open space which you can see out the back window. Thats a flaw in the Ferrari's design but also there for safety. You forgot to show the Audi doing somersaults in 2011 as a result of contact with... a 458 gt. It doesnt matter who is driving it, you can't see because the car prodeces a large blindspot. I dont think European teams want to race in this series when theyre going to have to alter their cars. They dont get much return and most are small so theyll stick with what theyre doing now. USCRs best bet would be to go the GT3=GTE route and spec the GT3s to run at the GTE pace. Do some actual leading instead of following, and not water down cars that are naturally close to the ALMSs GTE class AND relatively cheap.

 

[cnd01]

I dont think European teams want to race in this series when theyre going to have to alter their cars. They dont get much return and most are small so theyll stick with what theyre doing now. USCRs best bet would be to go the GT3=GTE route and spec the GT3s to run at the GTE pace. Do some actual leading instead of following, and not water down cars that are naturally close to the ALMSs GTE class AND relatively cheap.

So the USCR would be leading by copycatting what Europe does. Thats what the alms did 10 years ago and look how great it's done...

I want gte and gt3 as the gt platform minus the traction control. I'd rather have one Gt class though for simplicity reasons as assuming they go with what they have now, there will be the same Porsche and Ferrari in both Gt classes.

 

[LancerEvo7]

So the USCR would be leading by copycatting what Europe does. Thats what the alms did 10 years ago and look how great it's done...

It did pretty good until the WEC started.

I want gte and gt3 as the gt platform minus the traction control. I'd rather have one Gt class though for simplicity reasons as assuming they go with what they have now, there will be the same Porsche and Ferrari in both Gt classes.

Except the GTE and GT3 cars aren't the same...

 

[cnd01]

It did pretty good until the WEC started.

Except the GTE and GT3 cars aren't the same...

Yea so balance them like Seth was saying. They're almost even as is.

 

[LancerEvo7]

Then the tube frame GA GT teams would have to buy a GT2 or GT3 car and then bring it to USCR spec. Isn't cost-saving the whole reason Grand-Am exists as it does?

 

[cnd01]

Then the tube frame GA GT teams would have to buy a GT2 or GT3 car and then bring it to USCR spec. Isn't cost-saving the whole reason Grand-Am exists as it does?

Stevenson has already announced that it isn't racing next season in the USCR, and Turner said that he would switch brands if necessary.

No reason to hold up a class because of 3 cars just like no reason to keep LMP1 when 2 cars race and 1 finishes.

 

[RACECAR]

What about teams running those Grand-Am adopted Ferraris and Audis?

 

[01GTP]

How about a tube chassis purpose built GTE class for pro drivers and the other GTA class using the GT3 spec cars for the amateur drivers like hawkeye said?
Make the specs versatile to fit in with ACO specs.

Sounds very simple and reasonable.

Whatever car you have now, use it in which ever class it fits.
Otherwise build (GTE) or buy (GTA) a new one.
It's not like teams keep a car for much more than 3 years.

My guess is most cars are ready for next year anyway.
I don't see a huge change in cars next year (besides C7 Covette).
And that's a little more than a month from testing.
As said, Shank is testing a motor but with it being this late in the season without new 2014 regulations how much more can change without time to develop/test it.

I'm thinking the Flying Lizard teams will have a good season next year if they stay in the (now) GTC class.
They had they're first GTC win this week at Lime Rock and we know from the past they are a great team.
I'm sure they will welcome more competition in a bigger class next year.

For 2104 just some mods or restrictions to handle the new mixed classes would work.
By 2016 teams will know what they want to race with.
Until then it's a big question for sure.

 

[Snaeper]

What about teams running those Grand-Am adopted Ferraris and Audis?

The APR guys bragged that it doesn't take much to alter the cars to another spec, it's only about a days work apparently.

At that point, I think only the roll cage would separate the two.

 

[cnd01]

What about teams running those Grand-Am adopted Ferraris and Audis?

They would need to wait until 2016 to go full gt3 because of those cars. I think the current gagt cars including tube frames can be brought to gt3 spec no problem without breaking the bank, but the teams do need a year or two to get ready for that change. As far as next year and 2015, I think gagt cars will get slowed down a little as they are in betweem alms gt and alms gtc. Some teams might go up though like the aim R. Ferri entry with papis and segal.

 

[hawkeye122]

I wonder if ESM would still bring its GT Ferrari to the endurance rounds?

I see no issues with having traction control. Endurance racing is about technology. If your company has a killer traction control system on the road car (Ferrari, Porsche) theres no reason you shouldnt be allowed to use it. If we want to make it all about the drivers, lets go to a spec class. Does PC have traction control?

I'm very interested to see what will happen to the GTC teams... They're running what is essentially a road car, against some more-or-less, purpose-built racing cars with wide body aero.

There's rumblings about BMW teams wanting a kit to transform their GT3 cars to GTE spec... Maybe Turner could get in on one of those? The Z4 has a pretty good track record...

Lastly, I'll be surprised if Falken or Flying Lizard don't pick up a 991-spec car for GTE.

 

[cnd01]

I wonder if ESM would still bring its GT Ferrari to the endurance rounds?

I see no issues with having traction control. Endurance racing is about technology. If your company has a killer traction control system on the road car (Ferrari, Porsche) theres no reason you shouldnt be allowed to use it. If we want to make it all about the drivers, lets go to a spec class. Does PC have traction control?

I'm very interested to see what will happen to the GTC teams... They're running what is essentially a road car, against some more-or-less, purpose-built racing cars with wide body aero.

There's rumblings about BMW teams wanting a kit to transform their GT3 cars to GTE spec... Maybe Turner could get in on one of those? The Z4 has a pretty good track record...

Lastly, I'll be surprised if Falken or Flying Lizard don't pick up a 991-spec car for GTE.

My issue with traction control is that it becomes less of a driver's race. Endurance racing should test a driver's focus for 24 hours as well as the car. It's "the ultimate test of man and machine" It's a lot easier to focus when a computer keeps the rear tires from lighting up.

I think the Turner Bmw will be fine as is. Then in 2016, the Bmw M4 will be out which will have a race car.

 

[hawkeye122]

Exactly! So in GT, where it's about proving you have the road car, use all the road car bits! Same with P1, high tech, go for it! But the Am classes, where tis about rich playboys and not showcasing technology, I'm totally fine with no traction control- Let's see who the fastest rich guy actually is (OR who hired the best pro. Either way, it works)

 

[cnd01]

Exactly! So in GT, where it's about proving you have the road car, use all the road car bits! Same with P1, high tech, go for it! But the Am classes, where tis about rich playboys and not showcasing technology, I'm totally fine with no traction control- Let's see who the fastest rich guy actually is (OR who hired the best pro. Either way, it works)

I would tend to think possibly the other way in that let the am classes have tc so no one is a hazard to the rest of the field I want to see the pro drivers earn their pay every race by driving without aids. If we get 2 gt classes, let one have it and one not. Same with P and PC. Let the pc guys learn with tc, and let the premier class be all driver.