2014 United Sports Car Championship

[Mac K]

Great interviews 👍

 

[Tower Turn 13]

But you honestly cant expect a DP and a P2 to use the same tyres.. The P2 may not have to make a single tyre change if that's the case, but they'll be down on grip. If they make different tyres for the different types of Prototype, that would be good.

I totally agree. I just meant that it's noticeable that tires play into strategy because of the same exact cars doing better or worse in different conditions. I prefer choice. 👍

 

[cnd01]

No reason to put both on the same exact tire as the tire would compromise both types of cars. I do think only 1 manufacturer should procide those tires though.

 

[freshseth83]

That's stale. No one wants more spec with the series trying to move forward. Michelin is more than capable of producing higher grip tires for DP's to keep up. They make LMP1 tires and SuperGT tires. But SuperGT tires have a softer compound and higher grip than say GTE tires. If they want tires that have to be changed in the race they're capable of producing them. No one needs a single tire maker. Right now the DW runs Bridgestone. Think Panoz will give them up?

 

[Northstar]

I would hate to see an exclusive tire, competition is a good thing, especially for things like tires where there is always room for improvement.

 

[cnd01]

That's stale. No one wants more spec with the series trying to move forward. Michelin is more than capable of producing higher grip tires for DP's to keep up. They make LMP1 tires and SuperGT tires. But SuperGT tires have a softer compound and higher grip than say GTE tires. If they want tires that have to be changed in the race they're capable of producing them. No one needs a single tire maker. Right now the DW runs Bridgestone. Think Panoz will give them up?

Panoz has to give the Bridgestone up if the continental deal goes through. GTLM would stay open tire also. I would love it if Michelin would be the P class's tire provider exclusively. The DP would be 3 seconds faster right off the bat in some cases plus Michelin tires wouldn't cost more, but continental (which is really Hoosier btw) has paid lots of money into the series to be the tire manufacturer if this deal goes through.

Btw: who's "no one that wants spec"

I would hate to see an exclusive tire, competition is a good thing, especially for things like tires where there is always room for improvement.

I don't think with all the changes being made to more than half the collective field that the teams need to have to worry about testing which tires work the best on top of all that's currently having to be tested. In 2016 after the stop gap is over and if the teams want it, go ahead and open it up

 

[Wilbur]

I don't like one spec tire, I think it makes the tire folks lazy too.

 

[hawkeye122]

No reason to put both on the same exact tire as the tire would compromise both types of cars. I do think only 1 manufacturer should procide those tires though.

That seems silly. Look at it this way-
(I'll use Bridgestone since Pirelli are s***)
Every year, the Spec Tyre in F1 was a little bit better. Bridgestone could put in some reasearch, and since the cars were fundamentally the same (Give or take some downforce here, grip there) all of the cars got faster.

Now we have 2 different specs of car entirely, each with their own minute differences. IF Continental tried to make the tyres better year by year, they wouldnt get as good as quickly, because they would have twice as much research to do.

Now, if Continental WASN'T the sole supplier, here's something to think about.

DP teams have options-
A. Keep they tyre they've acquired a bunch of data with for the past several years, probably cheaper too.

B. Go to a different brand entirely. They wanna buy Michelin? Go for it, but thats money out of pocket on engine, driver, etc. as well as being untested. Maybe theres a company that has a cheaper tyre? If they wanna run Nankang, that's ok too. They'd save a big chunk of cash, but probably be off the pace.

C. See if they can get Pirelli to build them the old tyre. Again, they'd have (Some) data, but a bit more cost.


And then the P2 teams would also have options, like they do now.



My guess is that if the Prototype class went Open-tyre, the P2's would stay on Michelin, and the DP's would stay on Continental. But this would force both manufacturers to up their game in big chunks. Folks like Ganassi would be the first to benefit. "Ah shoot, the Conti's cant keep pace with the P2 cars. Who wants to build us a freaking tyre?" They'd find a company, get to work, and probably gain time back. All the other teams would be all like "Hey, Continental, up yo game or we outie." Then Continental puts actual work into making the tyre better.

My point is, having an open-tyre (With a cost cap) would effectively regulate the BoP on its own right.

Having a sole supplier for tyres just stiffles progress. If Continental know they'll be the winning tyre for X number of years, regardless of how good it really is, they dont have to do much.
Meanwhile, in open-tyre LMGTE, they'll get closer and closer each year to the P class, until they get whacked with more BoP, or something else is done to make the P class faster. And given the current feet-dragging that is going on to get them to P2 spec, I don't envision that happening.

A spec tyre is good for a spec(OR close to Spec, like F1 or NASCAR) series. But an open series with a spec tyre? Seems a bit sketch...
When it was JUST DP's, it sort of made sense. But now with 3 different types of car? No...

 

[Furinkazen]

@ Hawkeye, remember the F1 Bridgestone vs Michelin war?

 

[hawkeye122]

@ Hawkeye, remember the F1 Bridgestone vs Michelin war?

Remember? Vaguely. Know about it? Sure. But by the time we worry about that becoming an issue, it'll be 2016 and they'll hopefully have one type of prototype, and go back to spec tyre

 

[01GTP]

Is the fact that tires will be changed at the same time as fueling going to change people's (gtplanet members) thoughts on what tire is used?

As they will be waiting for fuel the tire strategy won't matter much at all, correct?

If it were to follow ALMS's seperate tire/fueling it would.

I myself don't care either way.

 

[hawkeye122]

Is the fact that tires will be changed at the same time as fueling going to change people's (gtplanet members) thoughts on what tire is used?

As they will be waiting for fuel the tire strategy won't matter much at all, correct?

If it were to follow ALMS's seperate tire/fueling it would.

I myself don't care either way.

Fair enough, but what happens when Level 5 show up to Le Mans wearing under-developed Continentals, compared to everyone running the tried-and-true Dunlops, or the tyre they're most familiar with, the Michelin.

 

[RACECAR]

Fair enough, but what happens when Level 5 show up to Le Mans wearing under-developed Continentals, compared to everyone running the tried-and-true Dunlops, or the tyre they're most familiar with, the Michelin.

That right there is my main problem. No team or Sportscar series outside the US runs Continentals so by default any US-based LMP2 team is screwed before they even consider going to Le Mans.

Panoz has to give the Bridgestone up if the continental deal goes through. GTLM would stay open tire also. I would love it if Michelin would be the P class's tire provider exclusively. The DP would be 3 seconds faster right off the bat in some cases plus Michelin tires wouldn't cost more, but continental (which is really Hoosier btw) has paid lots of money into the series to be the tire manufacturer if this deal goes through.

Please tell me you're joking.

 

[cnd01]

Please tell me you're joking.

I'm not. I really don't want open tire rules in P until 2016 at the earliest.

 

[RACECAR]

I'm not. I really don't want open tire rules in P until 2016 at the earliest.

I just hate that its basically Hoosier. The fact that they essentially "bought" into being a exclusive tire supplier with a different name is irritating.

 

[Jav]

Great interviews 👍

Awesome stuff Mac, thank you for sharing!

 

[hawkeye122]

I'm not. I really don't want open tire rules in P until 2016 at the earliest.

Err why?

 

[01GTP]

Fair enough, but what happens when Level 5 show up to Le Mans

Fair enough. 👍

We will have to see if Continental can use this opportunity to make a tire that will be competitive.
From the article it sounds as though the current tires are what the series wanted not necessarily what Conti would of constructed.

For all we know Conti may make a better tire, only the future will tell.


And as far as Hoosier goes, it still continues to be privately owned and operated by the Newton family.
Maybe it is General Tire you were thinking of as Conti bought them and formed Continental Tire of North America...??

And I also run Conti's on the Audi.

 

[Wilbur]

My thoughts on tires, one brand makes them not try as hard to produce the best tire because who do they have to compete against! You can have a major tire sponsor but don't make teams run it if they don't want to. If anything a tire needs offer monies in their own little deals for doing well. I like competition as long as we aren't risking safety which I doubt we really would be now.

I also would really hate to lose the Falken Tire team even if they aren't fastest or best tire but by far my favorite GT team.

 

[hawkeye122]

So what are the differences between the current Grand Am Porsche, the GTC/Cup car, and the actual GT3 car?

 

[RACECAR]

So what are the differences between the current Grand Am Porsche, the GTC/Cup car, and the actual GT3 car?

As far as I can recall:

-The Grand-Am Porsche is essentially a slower cup car with tube frame (last I checked anyway)

-The GTC cars are basically the 911 Cup cars you see in various Porsche GT3 cup championships (some older, some newer)

-The GT3 car (at least this year's version anyway) is abit closer to last year's 911 GTE car in terms of bodywork (even has a similar Rear end treatment) and like the other GT3 cars, the most powerful.

 

[freshseth83]

Panoz has to give the Bridgestone up if the continental deal goes through. GTLM would stay open tire also. I would love it if Michelin would be the P class's tire provider exclusively. The DP would be 3 seconds faster right off the bat in some cases plus Michelin tires wouldn't cost more, but continental (which is really Hoosier btw) has paid lots of money into the series to be the tire manufacturer if this deal goes through.

Btw: who's "no one that wants spec"



I don't think with all the changes being made to more than half the collective field that the teams need to have to worry about testing which tires work the best on top of all that's currently having to be tested. In 2016 after the stop gap is over and if the teams want it, go ahead and open it up

I said no one wants MORE SPEC in a series that is trying to move away from it (or so they speak).

 

[cnd01]

Err why?

When 75% of the prototype field for next year already runs a spec tire, keep it that way as well as the entire gtd class field.

So what are the differences between the current Grand Am Porsche, the GTC/Cup car, and the actual GT3 car?

Gagt car is an alms gtc car with 200 thousand dollars worth of upgrades but less aero. The gagt car is 2 seconds a lap faster than the alms gtc car at Daytona. Gt3 is a gagt car with extra aero, driving aids (BLAH!), and better tires.

I said no one wants MORE SPEC in a series that is trying to move away from it (or so they speak).

Who said they're moving away from spec? The entire prototype field is essentially spec.
P2: cost capped
Pc: spec
DP: you'll argue until you're blue in the face that it's spec

It could change in 2016, but for right now that's how it is regardless of what you come up with.

 

[hawkeye122]

So cnd, let 75% of the field keep the tyre they like, and let the other 25% keep theirs. Even if there was an open tyre format, this would be the result anyways.

 

[Wilbur]

So cnd, let 75% of the field keep the tyre they like, and let the other 25% keep theirs. Even if there was an open tyre format, this would be the result anyways.

I see no issue with that! Run whatever tire you prefer and let that be end of it. Never been a huge fan of spec tires for series with multi class racing.

Hell I'm not even a fan of one tire for a series regardless, I like options to allow teams different strategies alot like V8's do with hard and soft. It can help slower teams or teams with less funding actually maybe change their race up to finish well.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Great interviews 👍

Guys, Scott Elkins says "A part of [the tracks decisions] comes down to which tracks have room for us."

Goodbye, and good riddance, Lime Rock and Laguna Seca. Hello Road America, Road Atlanta, Mosport, Montréal, VIR (with both pits,) Daytona (obviously,) Circuit of the Americas, Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen, Indianapolis (the biggest pits on the schedule?) and Sebring.


That track list... I'm in love.



But:


Lime Rock is out, way too small


Long Beach remains a possibility.


Laguna Seca's probably out.


Belle Isle (are the pits big enough?)

 

[Müle]

My thoughts on tires, one brand makes them not try as hard to produce the best tire because who do they have to compete against! You can have a major tire sponsor but don't make teams run it if they don't want to. If anything a tire needs offer monies in their own little deals for doing well. I like competition as long as we aren't risking safety which I doubt we really would be now.

I also would really hate to lose the Falken Tire team even if they aren't fastest or best tire but by far my favorite GT team.

If the Prototype teams want to go to Le Mans, they will basically demand Continental give them a tire capable of competing with Michelin.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Why don't they open it up, even further, to developmental tires? These prototypes are supposed to be the cutting edge of technology. Why not pit Pirelli tires against Hoosiers, Falken, Continental, etc. with nothing but a set size?


"The tires must be ---/--/-- size mounted on _______ rims with _____ fitment. The tire compound is chosen by the race team. Tire compounds are unrestricted."


The natural progression will lead to natural improvements in the competitive nature of Le Mans Prototypes... The same goes for GT, although GT isn't always known as the "cutting edge" to the same extent.

 

[Wilbur]

Why don't they open it up, even further, to developmental tires? These prototypes are supposed to be the cutting edge of technology. Why not pit Pirelli tires against Hoosiers, Falken, Continental, etc. with nothing but a set size?


"The tires must be ---/--/-- size mounted on _______ rims with _____ fitment. The tire compound is chosen by the race team. Tire compounds are unrestricted."


The natural progression will lead to natural improvements in the competitive nature of Le Mans Prototypes... The same goes for GT, although GT isn't always known as the "cutting edge" to the same extent.

Why limited prototypes to a certain size tire? The most I can see someone limiting is a rim size like fronts no bigger than 17, rears no bigger than 19. Some tracks/teams might prefer more sidewall compared to others but if you want to run a super wide tire, go for it, if you prefer a skinner tire by all means.

 

[Sam48]

Guys, Scott Elkins says "A part of [the tracks decisions] comes down to which tracks have room for us."

Goodbye, and good riddance, Lime Rock and Laguna Seca. Hello Road America, Road Atlanta, Mosport, Montréal, VIR (with both pits,) Daytona (obviously,) Circuit of the Americas, Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen, Indianapolis (the biggest pits on the schedule?) and Sebring.


That track list... I'm in love.



But:


Lime Rock is out, way too small


Long Beach remains a possibility.


Laguna Seca's probably out.


Belle Isle (are the pits big enough?)

Technically speaking, the new rules state that all pit boxes must be 22 feet long. With this specification, most tracks you mentioned can only hold between 55 to 65 cars. If the fields are what I'm predicting at Daytona, upwards of 70 when you think about it, than we might have a problem. In fact, they might have to implement a NASCAR style of qualifying with "go or go home" rules.