2015 Ford Mustang - General Discussion

[Slash]

Most modern AMGs aren't far off what you're critiquing about, either.


The new GT-S has a deep rumble & lope that you hear in the older Mustangs.

Sounds great at idle, but it's when you crack it open and get on it that I don't like. The raspiness, crackling and smoothness just doesn't do it for me. I like a distinct ROAR that you find with older cars.

It's all down to the exhaust configuration. European car buyers tend to appreciate a more "sophisticated" sound, which means extensive exhaust tuning to get a very careful, controlled sound. You put a pair of long tube headers and full exhaust on any 90* performance V8, and it will sound like an absolute animal. Case in point:



To me that sounds very close to a typical stock car V8.

The thing is, I think you like the sound of V8's that are mostly stock and/or made for low RPM torque, NOT performance engines. Big displacement V8's that rev to around 5,000rpm with cast iron unequal length exhaust manifolds, chambered mufflers, and a single big carb. Something like this:

I love performance engines as well. A small block stroker than can spin 9 grand is always good sounding. I don't however like chambered mufflers, they sound cheap, hollow, tinney etc. Glasspacks are better IMO. It is down to the setup but it really depends. I love the sound of a stock V8, but I also love the sound of a highly built one.

When it comes to built stuff, this always sounds good.



Something about the first video, while it sounds excellent, still sounds "off" to my ears for some reason

Even stock stuff isn't bad either. Regardless the "roar" isn't there for me when it comes to the new Mustang. It sounds simply too refined for me. There comes a point where exhaust setup won't cure everything. A Coyote 5.0 isn't going to sound like a 429, regardless of what you do to the exhaust.


https://youtu.be/sO73UKxKz3s

 

[Zenith]

You can't compare highly modified track cars with stuff that comes from factories. We've been over this...

 

[Slash]

You can't compare highly modified track cars with stuff that comes from factories. We've been over this...

I'm not talkng about built cars, I'm talking about stock cars. Stock exhaust now versus then sound extremely different.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I'm not talkng about built cars, I'm talking about stock cars. Stock exhaust now versus then sound extremely different.

That Mustang and the SLS I posted sound so similar from the exterior that I bet most people couldn't distinguish them. The only difference is the advanced valve control systems in the SLS mean that it doesn't lope on idle.

 

[McLaren]

I'm not talkng about built cars, I'm talking about stock cars. Stock exhaust now versus then sound extremely different.

That's why you posted 2 cars that are not anywhere to close to factory setups, right?

We all know you highly prefer old, modified V8 American cars. I think the issue is that you hold anything new to the preferences you like from said old cars & don't acknowledge certain variables such as your preferred noises coming from modified vehicles opposed to the stock cars you don't believe sound as good.

 

[Slash]

That's why you posted 2 cars that are not anywhere to close to factory setups, right?

We all know you highly prefer old, modified V8 American cars. I think the issue is that you hold anything new to the preferences you like from said old cars & don't acknowledge certain variables such as your preferred noises coming from modified vehicles opposed to the stock cars you don't believe sound as good.

The Fox was no where near that. The AMX is 100% bone stock, the only modifications being the rear slicks and a Holley carburetor. In fact that car still has the unequal length log style exhaust manifolds on it. I filmed both it, and the Fox. I know exactly what's done to both cars.

The AMC and the Roadrunner both run stock cams which give it the idle and exhaust note it does. The type of induction system makes absolutely 0 difference in the exhaust note. It wouldn't matter if it was a 800ci engine or a 200ci engine if the cam specs are the same as the ones in it now. Those specifications are what controls the ehxaust note, in fact I'd say even the LSA is the only contributing factor in said cause because to the naked ear you wouldn't notice a change in sound based on lift, or even duration if the LSA is unchanged. I only posted the Fox since @Eunos_Cosmo brought up modded cars.

But regardless, the old stock engines still sound more angry to me.

 

[McLaren]

The Fox was no where near that. The AMX is 100% bone stock, the only modifications being the rear slicks and a Holley carburetor. In fact that car still has the unequal length log style exhaust manifolds on it. I filmed both it, and the Fox. I know exactly what's done to both cars.

Which isn't 100% stock. Just saying Holley carbs. doesn't really say a whole lot given that there are different Holley carbs available as well (according to the numerous AMC owners posting about going from 1 to the other for gains).

But regardless, the old stock engines still sound more angry to me.

Which goes back to the 2nd paragraph, then.

 

[Slash]

Which isn't 100% stock. Just saying Holley carbs. doesn't really say a whole lot given that there are different Holley carbs available as well (according to the numerous AMC owners posting about going from 1 to the other for gains).


Which goes back to the 2nd paragraph, then.

It's a 750 Double Pumper on an otherwise stock 390, if you want specifics

But still make no difference in relation to the exhaust note.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

MAPerformance has already tweaked 500bhp+ from the Ecoboost Mustang. They got it up to 470ish bhp and ridiculous amount of torque with stock turbo, block and boost was limited to 29psi by the stock sensors. They switched out the turbo and made 501bhp on dyno, and they'll keep testing how much the stock block can take before starting to modify it. But still, ~500bhp with stock turbo and block? This thing is a beast of a motor.. Up there with the best of JDM.

 

[Omnis]

Heh. Great. Now imagine the Focus RS.

 

[Zenith]

It's a 750 Double Pumper on an otherwise stock 390, if you want specifics

But still make no difference in relation to the exhaust note.

New carb = more air and fuel. More air and fuel means more combustion. More combustion means more exhaust flow. More exhaust flow means different sound. But this still doesn't sound stock so I checked the video description...

Stock 390ci with Holley carb and dumps

Stock 390ci with Holley carb and dumps

and dumps

...

 

[Slash]

New carb = more air and fuel. More air and fuel means more combustion. More combustion means more exhaust flow. More exhaust flow means different sound. But this still doesn't sound stock so I checked the video description...







...

Whoopty doo. Motor still has no internal work done. I'd argue the setup of the exhaust pipes on it shows the engines true sound anyways.

And regardless of what carb it has to the ear you will not notice a sound change.


Go ahead and swap a 4 barrel onto a 2 barrel engine and tell me it sounds different.

It won't.

As we've been over before, you all take the modification thing too literally. Ooooooo the muffler wore out and needed replacement! Must be a race car with all them mods! To anyone else in the car scene, espeically when it comes to racing, that car is stock as hell. Good luck finding a 100% factory correct car of that age on the streets. But yep, dumps and a carburetor must totally mean its a wicked race engine...

 

[Zenith]

Whoopty doo. Motor still has no internal work done. I'd argue the setup of the exhaust pipes on it shows the engines true sound anyways.

And regardless of what carb it has to the ear you will not notice a sound change.

Go ahead and swap a 4 barrel onto a 2 barrel engine and tell me it sounds different.

It won't.

I just noticed the Youtube account for this video is “slashfan7964”, so basically you have no idea if that car is stock.

We're talking about exhaust sound and you want to discount the fact that the sound you posted is through dumps… Are you nuts? That car is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

I have had several of exhaust setups on my car. The factory Ford exhaust had none of the meaty muscle that you imagine. On full throttle the only “anger” was coming from the engine, and even then it wasn’t very impressive. It was only once I went to a full 2.5” dual exhaust with an X-pipe and long tube headers did it sound like a muscle car. The tubes that follow the engine are the most important thing to sound. Cam matters too, but nowhere near as much as the exhaust once you get past idle.

You're arguing with a guy who owns a 60's muscle car about what 60's muscle cars sound like...

As we've been over before, you all take the modification thing too literally. Ooooooo the muffler wore out and needed replacement! Must be a race car with all them mods! To anyone else in the car scene, espeically when it comes to racing, that car is stock as hell. Good luck finding a 100% factory correct car of that age on the streets. But yep, dumps and a carburetor must totally mean its a wicked race engine...

Tell me more about what it's like to be in the car scene. What's it like changing carbs, rebuilding transmissions, swapping motors and all that? I'd really like to try it out some time. Where do I put the oil?

 

[McLaren]

Whoopty doo. Motor still has no internal work done. I'd argue the setup of the exhaust pipes on it shows the engines true sound anyways.

Then your entire opinion against euro cars is irrelevant. Any car that "dumps" the exhaust is going to sound louder than it normally is. That's what we're talking about after all, exhaust sounds.

Internal work doesn't have to be touched in the slightest to mix up the sound a vehicle makes.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Whoopty doo. Motor still has no internal work done. I'd argue the setup of the exhaust pipes on it shows the engines true sound anyways.

And regardless of what carb it has to the ear you will not notice a sound change.


Go ahead and swap a 4 barrel onto a 2 barrel engine and tell me it sounds different.

It won't.

As we've been over before, you all take the modification thing too literally. Ooooooo the muffler wore out and needed replacement! Must be a race car with all them mods! To anyone else in the car scene, espeically when it comes to racing, that car is stock as hell. Good luck finding a 100% factory correct car of that age on the streets. But yep, dumps and a carburetor must totally mean its a wicked race engine...

Slash, I got a challenge for you. Here are four V8s. Three are old school pushrod V8s and one is a "sophisticated" overhead cam job with fancy valve timing and stuff. Which one is the overhead cam motor?

 

[Slash]

I just noticed the Youtube account for this video is “slashfan7964”, so basically you have no idea if that car is stock.

We're talking about exhaust sound and you want to discount the fact that the sound you posted is through dumps… Are you nuts? That car is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

I have had several of exhaust setups on my car. The factory Ford exhaust had none of the meaty muscle that you imagine. On full throttle the only “anger” was coming from the engine, and even then it wasn’t very impressive. It was only once I went to a full 2.5” dual exhaust with an X-pipe and long tube headers did it sound like a muscle car. The tubes that follow the engine are the most important thing to sound. Cam matters too, but nowhere near as much as the exhaust once you get past idle.

You're arguing with a guy who owns a 60's muscle car about what 60's muscle cars sound like...



Tell me more about what it's like to be in the car scene. What's it like changing carbs, rebuilding transmissions, swapping motors and all that? I'd really like to try it out some time. Where do I put the oil?

You're going to sit here and tell me that a car I sat in, talked to the owner of, filmed and looked exensively over isn't stock? There's only a couple things done, otherwise, yes, yes it is.

I think you're crazy Any old V8 with the mufflers taken off sounds like a muscle car.

Then your entire opinion against euro cars is irrelevant. Any car that "dumps" the exhaust is going to sound louder than it normally is. That's what we're talking about after all, exhaust sounds.

Internal work doesn't have to be touched in the slightest to mix up the sound a vehicle makes.

To an extent, but regardless there's still a specific way a stock engine sounds regardless of the mufflers it has on it.

Slash, I got a challenge for you. Here are four V8s. Three are old school pushrod V8s and one is a "sophisticated" overhead cam job with fancy valve timing and stuff. Which one is the overhead cam motor?

Number 2 or number 4. Leaning towards the latter.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

there's still a specific way a stock engine sounds regardless of the mufflers it has on it.

In the immortal words of George Costanza, it was a setup!

#1 is a Ford 4.6 DOHC
#2 is a Pushrod Chevy 350 (Gen II) (OHV)
#3 is a Mercedes E55 AMG (OHC)
#4 is a BMW E39 M5 (OHC)

The E39 was a little too obvious, I should have found a better one. But when fed a slight preconception, you bought that a (new) Mercedes V8 (which was at least in your definition was "100% stock") and a Ford Modular were pushrod V8s. Also, of the two you were suspicious of being OHC engines, one in fact was an OHV engine. The point is that exhaust configuration means a whole lot, contrary to the bit I've quoted you as saying above.

 

[Slash]

In the immortal words of George Costanza, it was a setup!

#1 is a Ford 4.6 DOHC
#2 is a Pushrod Chevy 350 (Gen II) (OHV)
#3 is a Mercedes E55 AMG (OHC)
#4 is a BMW E39 M5 (OHC)

The E39 was a little too obvious, I should have found a better one. But when fed a slight preconception, you bought that a (new) Mercedes V8 (which was at least in your definition was "100% stock") and a Ford Modular were pushrod V8s. Also, of the two you were suspicious of being OHC engines, one in fact was an OHV engine. The point is that exhaust configuration means a whole lot, contrary to the bit I've quoted you as saying above.

Fair enough, I'll give you guys that one.

 

[CodeRedR51]

MAPerformance has already tweaked 500bhp+ from the Ecoboost Mustang. They got it up to 470ish bhp and ridiculous amount of torque with stock turbo, block and boost was limited to 29psi by the stock sensors. They switched out the turbo and made 501bhp on dyno, and they'll keep testing how much the stock block can take before starting to modify it. But still, ~500bhp with stock turbo and block? This thing is a beast of a motor.. Up there with the best of JDM.

Damn. I'm in for buying a new car end of next year and this car isn't making my decision easy.

 

[Zenith]

You're going to sit here and tell me that a car I sat in, talked to the owner of, filmed and looked exensively over isn't stock? There's only a couple things done, otherwise, yes, yes it is.

Didn’t say it wasn’t. I said you don’t know, because you don’t. People lying about their car at drag strips? Happens all the time. Either way, the car isn’t discounted from this discussion because it might be modded, it’s discounted because of the dumps. See below.

I think you're crazy. Any old V8 with the mufflers taken off sounds like a muscle car.

Any cross-plane V8 without mufflers sounds basically the same.

Let me be clear. The most important factors to sound are in (basically) order of importance:

Mufflers, Mufflers, Mufflers, engine layout/firing order, RPM, exhaust pipes length/diameter/bends, exhaust manifold/headers, displacement, cam selection.

Notice that OHV vs OHC, valves per cylinder, and head design are nowhere on the list. Displacement and cam selection are low. You can absolutely make a Mercedes or BMW V8 or Ford Mod motor sound like an old school muscle car. Simplifying the exhaust down to some dual chambered mufflers and no resonators will achieve this. You can also make traditional American V8's sound like BMWs and Ferraris, see Corsa and Akrapovik exhaust.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Damn. I'm in for buying a new car end of next year and this car isn't making my decision easy.

Just remember that it is still a big car with hood about as long as government debt.

 

[Ddrizle]

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

 

[Keef]

Why is the GT350R-C so fast?

http://puppyknuckles.kinja.com/crazy-fast-shelby-mustang-gt350r-cs-dominate-lime-rock-1720403818

Aren't cars in Continental Challenge limited with restrictors and whatnot to level the playing field? Does the car just have that much mechanical grip? It's not like there's an advantage with tires or anything.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Yeah for them to come out of the box swinging like that, the car definitely needs a BOP adjustment.

 

[YSSMAN]

Why is the GT350R-C so fast?

http://puppyknuckles.kinja.com/crazy-fast-shelby-mustang-gt350r-cs-dominate-lime-rock-1720403818

Aren't cars in Continental Challenge limited with restrictors and whatnot to level the playing field? Does the car just have that much mechanical grip? It's not like there's an advantage with tires or anything.

It is strange, particularly when the Z/28s were doing so well earlier in the year. If it isn't a weight thing, it's gotta be aero or grip. Or both. But, I think all the cars run give/take the same tire compound, I don't think what I assume are a small difference in tire width between both would be that big of a performance advantage.

 

[Keef]

It is strange, particularly when the Z/28s were doing so well earlier in the year. If it isn't a weight thing, it's gotta be aero or grip. Or both. But, I think all the cars run give/take the same tire compound, I don't think what I assume are a small difference in tire width between both would be that big of a performance advantage.

And all the cars run top-notch dampers so it's not like the tune is making the difference. One thing the Mustangs do enjoy is much lower drag aero than the Camaros - why GM still thinks it's a good idea to set a brick wall on the trunk I have no idea. The evidence against that was in the Z06 vs. NISMO test.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Put on some good headphones. This is probably the best quality audio yet for the GT350. Winding Road magazine does fidelity right.



That engine sounds absolutely frantic. Its the first one where you can definitely tell it's a flat plane too. But still gruff sounding. I wouldn't change the exhaust at all.

edit: I just noticed a heads up display shift light. That's awesome.

 

[jergto]

Weight of the GT350R is 3650lbs. I was expecting the weight of the regular GT350 to be that and the R to be in the lower 3500's. Other than that, car sounds good.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Surprising amount of understeer and tyre squeal, it seemed that the steering wheel didn't have much to do with the turning.. Then here was also some nasty resonance from something in the car when the revs got near rev limit. Not impressed.