2015 TUDOR United Sportscar Championship

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The reason why the shut down rule was created was because back many many many years ago, the organizers of the 24 Hours of Le Mans wanted to separate themselves from Grand Prix racers. The idea was that the car should be able to shut down, and fire up again even when in the midst of a race, giving the cars another challenge within the race, being able to fire up again even when hot. Also it was so that the non-production cars kept their starter motors IIRC.

Indycar has had it's own scares with keeping the engines running and refueling. It's not the "spinning wheels" (that was a weird issue and it's rare), it's turning off the engine so that refueling is safer. (you turn your engine off when you refuel your street car don't you?) At any rate, Blancpain shuts their cars down when they refuel don't they? And that's one of the best run championships in the world.
 
The reason why the shut down rule was created was because back many many many years ago, the organizers of the 24 Hours of Le Mans wanted to separate themselves from Grand Prix racers. The idea was that the car should be able to shut down, and fire up again even when in the midst of a race, giving the cars another challenge within the race, being able to fire up again even when hot. Also it was so that the non-production cars kept their starter motors IIRC.
All of this supports the not so hard to figure out fact that DHH's motives are not safety related and in fact are trying to help his team win.

Indycar has had it's own scares with keeping the engines running and refueling. It's not the "spinning wheels" (that was a weird issue and it's rare), it's turning off the engine so that refueling is safer. (you turn your engine off when you refuel your street car don't you?) At any rate, Blancpain shuts their cars down when they refuel don't they? And that's one of the best run championships in the world.
If I'm not mistaken, a car's engine is still hot after turning it off...leads back to the competitive advantage aspect.

Fire-Triangle.jpg


Heat, Fuel, and Air(O2 ) are what's needed to start a fire. Unless we wait until the cars are completely cooled off to fuel, there's still a big danger of fire. Those brakes are still pretty hot when they come in to the pits.
 
All of this supports the not so hard to figure out fact that DHH's motives are not safety related and in fact are trying to help his team win.


If I'm not mistaken, a car's engine is still hot after turning it off...leads back to the competitive advantage aspect.

Fire-Triangle.jpg


Heat, Fuel, and Air(O2 ) are what's needed to start a fire. Unless we wait until the cars are completely cooled off to fuel, there's still a big danger of fire. Those brakes are still pretty hot when they come in to the pits.
Sorry I made a mistake that I should have fixed (was trying to fix something). I meant to say that it was because Grand Prix cars were starting to get rid of on-board starters and the idea was that sportscars should be carrying their starters on board. I remember this from last year's Le Mans broadcast and they were explaining random things. But then it turned into a safety thing.

Now I think the safety aspect they are talking about when it comes to turning the car off before fuel is so that the car can't leave until the fuel is done, because the car cannot be started until the fuel line is removed.
 
Sorry I made a mistake that I should have fixed (was trying to fix something). I meant to say that it was because Grand Prix cars were starting to get rid of on-board starters and the idea was that sportscars should be carrying their starters on board. I remember this from last year's Le Mans broadcast and they were explaining random things. But then it turned into a safety thing.

Now I think the safety aspect they are talking about when it comes to turning the car off before fuel is so that the car can't leave until the fuel is done, because the car cannot be started until the fuel line is removed.
IndyCar has a system in place where the car will not go into gear and be able to leave until the fuel buckeye is out of the car. That's sufficient enough if you ask me. That keeps crew safe and it keeps a fuel spillage from happening
 
While that's fine and dandy, most endurance racing championships around the world (Blancpain Endurance and Sprint, ELMS, AsLMS, WEC, N24) follow this procedure. I mean why should TUSCC be different? It's an endurance series not a sprint series like Indycar. And Indycar's a bit different anyway as they're one of the last Formula type championships that even refuel the car. IMSA should do it anyway so that teams can be ready for Le Mans style stops if they go abroad.

NASCAR, and ARCA don't count as that's a completely different discipline with a completely different pitstop setup. And CTSCC follows TUSCC anyway.
 
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While that's fine and dandy, most endurance racing championships around the world (Blancpain Endurance and Sprint, ELMS, AsLMS, WEC, N24) follow this procedure. I mean why should TUSCC be different? It's an endurance series not a sprint series like Indycar. And Indycar's a bit different anyway as they're one of the last Formula type championships that even refuel the car. TUSCC should do it anyway so that teams can be ready for Le Mans style stops if they go abroad.

NASCAR, and ARCA don't count as that's a completely different discipline with a completely different pitstop setup. And CTSCC follows TUSCC anyway.
Why should IMSA follow a procedure that doesn't even have a pit wall to keep cars from potentially crashing into the garage stalls on pit road, or keep a human from being hit/run over while standing as a marker for a car rather than a sign being held over a pit wall? Both of those practices are ludicrous.
 
Why should IMSA follow a procedure that doesn't even have a pit wall to keep cars from potentially crashing into the garage stalls on pit road, or keep a human from being hit/run over while standing as a marker for a car rather than a sign being held over a pit wall? Both of those practices are ludicrous.
For one thing, nothing has happened. F1 has the most ludicriously fast stops on the planet and they haven't had an issue in a long while. Secondly the crews stand aback in the garage. Third almost EVERYWHERE in the endurance racing world they use this techniqe and it seems to work perfectly. Fourth they use lower pitlane speeds than we do. And besides, COTA is one of the most modern tracks in the world and it uses the FIA/ACO style pitlane garage and it works fine.

And besides what difference should the wall or lack of make to the procedure? ALMS did it their entire existence.
 
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For one thing, nothing has happened. F1 has the most ludicriously fast stops on the planet and they haven't had an issue in a long while. Secondly the crews stand aback in the garage. Third almost EVERYWHERE in the endurance racing world they use this techniqe and it seems to work perfectly. Fourth they use lower pitlane speeds than we do. And besides, COTA is one of the most modern tracks in the world and it uses the FIA/ACO style pitlane garage and it works fine.
Conti would have 50 cars per class making stops the other way and never had anything bad happen either. The argument that nothing bad happened can go equally both ways. Here's an instance of where having a pit wall probably saved lives:

 
I didn't say the pit wall wasn't a good idea, I'm just saying that it hasn't been of an issue. With how safety conscious the FIA has been lately they would have added some sort of barrier I believe if they felt it was an issue. Few circuits around the world have pitwalls and most of them are here in America.
 
Only circuit here that doesn't is COTA, and that's because it's built to FIA standards, and not a copycat of a NASCAR pitlane.
Exactly! As much as I love Road Atlanta, Road America, Sebring, The Glen, Laguna Seca...they haven't been updated in decades in many aspects.
 
Only circuit here that doesn't is COTA, and that's because it's built to FIA standards, and not a copycat of a NASCAR pitlane.
This past season, they put walls up for IMSA and took them down for the WEC race. Grand am put up walls for its race in 2013 also
I didn't say the pit wall wasn't a good idea, I'm just saying that it hasn't been of an issue. With how safety conscious the FIA has been lately they would have added some sort of barrier I believe if they felt it was an issue. Few circuits around the world have pitwalls and most of them are here in America.
Few teams have issues doing a driver change in 30 seconds, but for some reason, we have to make a change...

heck, there's a former Sargent, Liam Dwyer, who races for Freedom AutoSport in Conti with a bionic leg and he can do it safely and without whining, so I don't see why any of the proposed changes can be worthwhile other than "it's what the FIA does" which doesn't make a hill of beans at all. Last I checked, this is the IMSA Tudor United Sports Car Championship and not the FIA Tudor United Sports Car Championship. If teams from overseas think it's unsafe, they don't have to race here. Likewise, if teams here wanted to go to Le Mans, I wouldn't think they would try to change the regs to IMSA style stops to get an advantage... that's essentially what Whinemer Handsome is trying to do
 
It isn't about the bloody driver changes for crying out loud, it's the whole mindset of the pit stop. Let alone the fact that so much strategy is being lost when the tire change is done at the same time, so it's almost like how GT6 forces you to change tires because why not? Gonna take a while to load the thing with fuel anyway. And also, the FIA is the world's racing organization who run a bonkers amount of championships around the globe. IMSA should be taking notes and if they aren't it's a tragedy.

And why wouldn't you want to attract global teams?! The NAEC (which is 50 times more important and interesting that the regular season) has Daytona, Sebring, Watkins Glen, and Petite Le Mans, and those are on the global list of things that EVERYONE wants to win and have on their team or driver resume! And why not try and gain an advantage for Le Mans? They did it in ALMS. All but two of the GTLM teams go to Le Mans for Pete's sake! And next year I hope IMSA attracts global GT3 teams, as many are the best and most competitive in the world to GTD for the NAEC.

This series should NOT be isolated and NOT be writing the rule book over again "Because 'Murica". If it becomes isolated it WILL suffer.
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Now, for some news, Z4 successor has been unveiled for GT3. And could at some point when BMW chooses, replace the RLL BMW GTE's. (I know it's in the GT3 thread but this could become the base for the Z4 in GTLM if BMW just upgrades the GT3 car again)
http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/113229-imsa-bmw-unveils-2016-m6-gt3
 
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It isn't about the bloody driver changes for crying out loud, it's the whole mindset of the pit stop. Let alone the fact that so much strategy is being lost when the tire change is done at the same time, so it's almost like how GT6 forces you to change tires because why not? Gonna take a while to load the thing with fuel anyway. And also, the FIA is the world's racing organization who run a bonkers amount of championships around the globe. IMSA should be taking notes and if they aren't it's a tragedy.

And why wouldn't you want to attract global teams?! The NAEC (which is 50 times more important and interesting that the regular season) has Daytona, Sebring, Watkins Glen, and Petite Le Mans, and those are on the global list of things that EVERYONE wants to win and have on their team or driver resume! And why not try and gain an advantage for Le Mans? They did it in ALMS. All but two of the GTLM teams go to Le Mans for Pete's sake! And next year I hope IMSA attracts global GT3 teams, as many are the best and most competitive in the world to GTD for the NAEC.

This series should NOT be isolated and NOT be writing the rule book over again "Because 'Murica".
Just because the FIA is the biggest doesn't necessarily mean that they are the best by any means. I would not look to attract foreign teams because just as you stated "the FIA runs bonkers amounts of series" There's the WEC, ELMS, and AsLMS for teams to pick along with IMSA. A full season IMSA budget is close enough to the budget for a foreign team to run a full season of WEC to make it pretty much useless. If they want a regional series, there's one right in Europe or Asia if the team is from that part of the world. No real reason to come unless you want to so badly it doesn't really matter what series it is to choose from. Those teams won't complain that they suck at pit stops and demand a change on social media. Other than Daytona and Sebring, no one cares about IMSA other than Americans. For the local casual race fans, they care about each round not just the big ones. I'd rather have 15 full season cars per class than 30 at Daytona and Sebring with 8 per class everywhere else because I watch and go to races. That being said, if IMSA dropped Long Beach and Road America, to shorten the schedule, I wouldn't complain.

Different pit rules aren't isolation, they're just making it safer than the FIA procedure which I firmly believe is the case.
 
It isn't about the bloody driver changes for crying out loud, it's the whole mindset of the pit stop. Let alone the fact that so much strategy is being lost when the tire change is done at the same time, so it's almost like how GT6 forces you to change tires because why not? Gonna take a while to load the thing with fuel anyway. And also, the FIA is the world's racing organization who run a bonkers amount of championships around the globe. IMSA should be taking notes and if they aren't it's a tragedy.

And why wouldn't you want to attract global teams?! The NAEC (which is 50 times more important and interesting that the regular season) has Daytona, Sebring, Watkins Glen, and Petite Le Mans, and those are on the global list of things that EVERYONE wants to win and have on their team or driver resume! And why not try and gain an advantage for Le Mans? They did it in ALMS. All but two of the GTLM teams go to Le Mans for Pete's sake! And next year I hope IMSA attracts global GT3 teams, as many are the best and most competitive in the world to GTD for the NAEC.

This series should NOT be isolated and NOT be writing the rule book over again "Because 'Murica". If it becomes isolated it WILL suffer.
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Save yourself the aggravation and just add him to your ignore list, you cant reason with stupid.
 
Save yourself the aggravation and just add him to your ignore list, you cant reason with stupid.
I did and it makes for so much better reading and it's always funny when someone who isn't involved in Motorsport thinks they know better than people who have been doing it for years.
 
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Surely they could have put off whatever it is to show the last hour of Sebring on a channel people actually have! :banghead:
 
I vote GTP...because :gtpflag:. The interesting thing is that Class 1 might actually bring back the old GTO days to an extent when/if it does come. Plus since DTM/GT500 cars pull lap times around the LMP2 mark it'd be appropriate, a GT Prototype.

It'd be really nice if the next gen LMP2 specs get the cars a little faster (while also reducing cost). Then you throw in the P2's at the top, with GTO/GTE/GT3 following behind. LMP3 has potential, though... and it's certainly better than LMPC.
 
It'd be really nice if the next gen LMP2 specs get the cars a little faster (while also reducing cost). Then you throw in the P2's at the top, with GTO/GTE/GT3 following behind. LMP3 has potential, though... and it's certainly better than LMPC.
I agree. I'd prefer more power making it easier to stagger the other classes between them. LMP3 looks like it could be the face lift FLM/PC needs.

I think if IMSA went full GTO/GTU like what was done back in the 80s would be great. GTO would be the factory guys with GTU being the GT3 spec
 
Another option that kept me up all night last night was splitting the NAEC completely away from the rest of the TUSC races. I know the logic of combining two series to form two series seems silly, but these two new series would offer entirely different brands of racing, where the ALMS and Grand-Am were basically offering the same type of racing, just with different cars (but to the casual onlooker, not THAT different). Instead of now competing, you can strategically market the two series where they work together instead of against each other. Offering two different products to meet drivers, teams, manufacturers and regulation's needs.

(Edited above since I didn't really come off that clearly).

I wish I could expand on this further but I'm on my phone and pressed for time. But in addition to separating the series, you have different cars run in each.

North American Endurance Championship

The NAEC takes over as the premier North American "super-endurance" series. Allows IMSA to potentially get a better TV package for the fewer events, gives more emphasis to the abundant manufacturers who want to be involved in P and GTLM, and GTD teams are seen as the third class instead of the fourth, since the GTLM-Am teams blend in with the Pro, assuming GTLM-Am even happens. Ideally, IMSA gets involved with SRO and helps send the best performing GTD teams to the Spa 24 Hours.

Overall running costs are drastically reduced, making it easier to field programs in the series.

NAEC - Five to Six races, adding one West Coast event at least.
Classes:

  • Prototype (P2 and DW)
  • GTLM Pro
  • GTLM Am
  • GTD (Pro/Am only)

P - This is a win/win in my opinion. Sure the P2 cars and teams might miss running the other rounds, but now their season's budget has been drastically reduced, while running only the high profile events to keep appearances. Additionally, this could be attractive to European teams that may want to run longer events than ELMS, without doing the globe-trotting deal of the WEC, and don't want to compete in the entire TUSC season or be seen as only participating in "some events".

GTLM teams become the second class instead of the third, so manufacturers get more for their budget as well. By keeping them separate from Class 1, they don't have to worry about potential conflicts or being seen as "the slower GT cars". Not sure if BMW would run both GT and Class 1 programs in North America, though. Additionally, the manufacturers may have designs on visiting certain tracks (Chevy would wanna race in Detroit, BMW at Lime Rock, etc). They could also want to make more back from their investment, not wanting to develop cars that only run for a few races a year.

GTLM-Am is added for those gentlemen interested in running at Le Mans. Also allows customer cars for Porsche and Ferrari (possibly Corvette and AM, too) and helps the field maintain general health. Again, though, the factory cars may not want to run alongside Am cars... so there's that t consider. Should that be the case, LMP3 could join in, but then GTLM would go back to being the "third" class with the second most coverage.

GTD files in behind. Pro/Am allows both Pro and Am teams from PWC and TUSC to compete while only having to worry about adding a driver or two to the roster. Also keeps their overall pace off of the factory GTLM cars.


"Tudor United SportsCar Championship"

TUSC - Seven to Nine Events (Edit: 2 to 2 1/2 hours in length, with at least one event either a set length "1000km" or 4-6 hours long.)
  • GTO (Class 1)
  • PC (LMP3/FLM)
  • GTD Pro
  • GTD Am

GTO joins as the top class to help manufacturers market their place in the series, since they'd be faster than prototypes. IMSA should try to focus on getting the Big Three from Japan and Germany to join the party before trying to entice an American manufacturer, which should be easier if the class and series is separated from GTLM and P, since GM would be the most likely of those to commit as they likely wont continue in prototype racing anyways, and would ideally want the GTO cars to be separate from their investment in Corvette Racing (Speculation: I really think Buick would be the brand they'd use, since they could race it in Super GT on the condition of a Chinese round added in, and could also race in Europe as an Opel). Chrylser-Fiat likely wouldn't send an American brand into the fray, but Alfa Romeo could make a lot of sense, since it'll be rejoining the American market soon, and also has history in DTM. What better marketing than racing? I don't think Ford will join, nor Lincoln, though Lincoln should be the brand they use if they did join.

PC falls in behind, teams can market themselves as "the top prototypes in the class" and don't have to worry about looking bad while getting passed by P2's. Granted, they'd still fall behind the Class 1 cars, but aside from missing out on the NAEC races, I think this is a good fit. Given that LMP3 won't be running at Le Mans, I don't see the cars being developed for those lengths of races anyways (not to say that they couldn't handle them, though, as the FLM cars have shown that they can when driven by the right people).

GTD gets relevant with the addition of Pro teams, so Stevenson and Brumos can do what they do and be recognized for it. This could help attract GT3-only manufacturers like Lamborghini and Audi to send pro squads, but if Audi invests here, they likely wont run in GTO.

GTD Am continues on for pro and amateur drivers. If I were IMSA, I'd allow an Australian GT level of acceptance for GT3 machinery. With 2016 bringing lots of new models, there's going to be an influx of used GT3's from Europe, and allowing large diversity in the class could make it attractive, especially if they're involved in BOP'ing the cars so that older and newer models can race against each other.

EDIT: Expanded the idea to explain my selections further.
 
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Another option that kept me up all night last night was splitting the NAEC completely away from the rest of the TUSC races. I know the logic of combining two series to form two series seems silly, but these two new series would offer entirely different brands of racing. Instead of two series that have a couple of marquee endurance races mixed with some road course and street races, you can now have one series entirely comprised of endurance races, with the other visiting the best tracks but reducing track time.

I wish I could expand on this further but I'm on my phone and pressed for time. But in addition to separating the series, you have different cars run in each.

NAEC - Five to Six races, adding one West Coast event at least.

Classes:
Prototype (P2 and DW)
GTLM Pro
GTLM Am
GTD (Pro/Am only)

TUSC - Seven to Nine Events
GTO (Class 1)
PC (LMP3/FLM)
GTD Pro
GTD Am
I'd like to add to that and have the NAEC events and TUSC events based on that idea from your list because that looks AMAZING :drool: :

NAEC (sort of in order):
Rolex 24 @ Daytona
12 Hours of Sebring
6 Hours of Laguna Seca
6 Hours of Watkins Glen
Lone Star Le Mans
Petite Le Mans

TUSC (not in order): - all races around an hour and a half
Long Beach
Laguna Seca
Road America
VIR - 90 minutes
Lime Rock
Miller Motorsports Park
COTA
Sonoma
Road Atlanta
Mosport

These two could be sort of mingled at some of the races possibly even. It'd kinda be like ELMS and the WEC.
 
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Another option that kept me up all night last night was splitting the NAEC completely away from the rest of the TUSC races. I know the logic of combining two series to form two series seems silly, but these two new series would offer entirely different brands of racing. Instead of two series that have a couple of marquee endurance races mixed with some road course and street races, you can now have one series entirely comprised of endurance races, with the other visiting the best tracks but reducing track time.

I wish I could expand on this further but I'm on my phone and pressed for time. But in addition to separating the series, you have different cars run in each.

NAEC - Five to Six races, adding one West Coast event at least.

Classes:
Prototype (P2 and DW)
GTLM Pro
GTLM Am
GTD (Pro/Am only)

TUSC - Seven to Nine Events
GTO (Class 1)
PC (LMP3/FLM)
GTD Pro
GTD Am
I don't know if that would work or not. I do think all the non endurance races need to be dual sprint races I'd rather just cut Long Beach and Road America from the schedule and run a 9 round schedule.
 
I wouldn't mingle them personally, because those teams that DO want to run in both the NAEC and TUSC should be able to do so. Although GTO and LMP3 could always do stand alone races without GT3 (possibly adding Yokohama GT3 Cup cars).

Lone Star at Le Mans would also make more sense to be a TUSC "sprint" race rather than an endurance event. That way the Prototype and GTLM teams can race in the WEC event should they want to.

I believe at least one of the TUSC races should also be a 6 hour race to test mettle and endurance of the GTO and LMP3 teams.
 
I wouldn't mingle them personally, because those teams that DO want to run in both the NAEC and TUSC should be able to do so. Although GTO and LMP3 could always do stand alone races without GT3 (possibly adding Yokohama GT3 Cup cars).

Lone Star at Le Mans would also make more sense to be a TUSC "sprint" race rather than an endurance event. That way the Prototype and GTLM teams can race in the WEC event should they want to.

I believe at least one of the TUSC races should also be a 6 hour race to test mettle and endurance of the GTO and LMP3 teams.
Good points...how about this then?

NAEC (sort of in order):
Rolex 24 @ Daytona
12 Hours of Sebring
6 Hours of Laguna Seca
6 Hours of Watkins Glen
6 Hours of Sonoma
Petite Le Mans (10 hours roughly)

TUSC (not in order): - Most races are an 90 minutes.
Long Beach
Laguna Seca
Road America
VIR
Lime Rock
Miller Motorsports Park - 6 Hours of Utah
Lone Star Le Mans @ COTA
Sonoma
Road Atlanta
Mosport
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Honestly though I think your idea would be good as the budgets for teams could be easier to manage as you have the sprint series and an endurance series.
 
Another option that kept me up all night last night was splitting the NAEC completely away from the rest of the TUSC races. I know the logic of combining two series to form two series seems silly, but these two new series would offer entirely different brands of racing. Instead of two series that have a couple of marquee endurance races mixed with some road course and street races, you can now have one series entirely comprised of endurance races, with the other visiting the best tracks but reducing track time.

I wish I could expand on this further but I'm on my phone and pressed for time. But in addition to separating the series, you have different cars run in each.

NAEC - Five to Six races, adding one West Coast event at least.

Classes:
Prototype (P2 and DW)
GTLM Pro
GTLM Am
GTD (Pro/Am only)

TUSC - Seven to Nine Events
GTO (Class 1)
PC (LMP3/FLM)
GTD Pro
GTD Am

So, after combining two sports cars series (Grand-Am & ALMS) you now want to split them up? Ask INDY car how well that worked out for them. Sorry, I just don't think this is a good idea at all. Lets wait and see if we can support one series in this country first. When we get to the point where we have too many cars to fit on the track, too many sponsors to fit on the cars and too many fans packing the stands...we can talk :sly:
 
So, after combining two sports cars series (Grand-Am & ALMS) you now want to split them up? Ask INDY car how well that worked out for them. Sorry, I just don't think this is a good idea at all. Lets wait and see if we can support one series in this country first. When we get to the point where we have too many cars to fit on the track, too many sponsors to fit on the cars and too many fans packing the stands...we can talk :sly:
Not split...more like a Blancpain Sprint Series and Blancpain Endurance series. They had the classes split last season anyway. You could even go so far as to have PC in the TUSCC replaced by GTLM-Am.

I'm definantly trying these ideas in March when PCARS is released to do some..."research" of this class structure. :sly:
 
Not split...more like a Blancpain Sprint Series and Blancpain Endurance series. They had the classes split last season anyway. You could even go so far as to have PC in the TUSCC replaced by GTLM-Am.

I love the Blancpain series, but we already have a sprint series here...the PWC. maybe some combined race weekends, PWC and CTSCC on Saturdays with TUSC on Sundays?
 
I love the Blancpain series, but we already have a sprint series here...the PWC. maybe some combined race weekends, PWC and CTSCC on Saturdays with TUSC on Sundays?
Well I've been wanting the SCCA to have a large but short "Tripple Crown" for all owners of GT3 cars, like 3 8 hour endurance races or something.

I doubt the SCCA and IMSA will ever come together as they're competitors on this level.
 
Oh yes, the SCCA has tons of racing all over the country. Problem is when all these competitors try and fight for there little piece of turf we all lose. Maybe if they all would work together they could drum up some decent tv coverage for us. In the long run we would all come out ahead.
 
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