2016 MotoGP/ WSBK/ Road Racing ThreadMotorbikes
- Thread starter Mike Rotch
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HKS racer
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Which shouldn't be the spirit of the sport but I understand you. Race Direction today basically admitted to be drammatically innefficent not being able to prevent unfair tactics.
Telemetry is there, just use it. It's like it's anything new.
ACO Le Mans already did that on Fuji for the LMP2 crash.
- 1,433
- Northern Ireland
I'm very on the fence with this incident (and ultimately very very disappointed with everyone involved), but I'm not sure I buy this line of thought. I think the perspective of the side-on video is very misleading - yes, it shows Marquez running into Rossi, but it doesn't show just how far Rossi is running the pair of them out wide (and how slowly he was doing so). The replay from the helicopter shows this more clearly, and it leads me to think they collided simply because Marquez didn't anticipate Rossi wouldn't leave turning in so late.
Then again, I'll have probably completely changed my mind in a couple of hours - I've already gone from thinking it was Rossi's fault, to Marquez's, to just some tragic on-the-edge racing incident. And I must stress I refer specifically to the crash with that - when it comes to all the build-up beforehand, god knows where I stand. Give me a few years to mull that over.......
To be honest the whole thing is pretty much a mess from start to finish, and I don't anyone is coming out of it well - Marquez, Lorenzo or Rossi. It's a massive shame, and for me has really deflated what has been a cracking championship season.
- 11,639
- Intercourse, PA
- Carbonox
This so many times. Marquez is not entitled to only race hard against one title contender and let the other one go past for free. Lorenzo's not even his teammate, so he really has no excuses.
If there's no rules against selective racing, then one had better be created then.
Arguments like this are useless. It's easy to demonize everyone disagreeing with you (hell, it happens all the time in politics) but it doesn't mean you're automatically in the right. Both you and Marquez could take some lessons in respecting the opposition.
GTP_Ingram
Premium
- 1,916
- London
- GTP_Ingram
- NowtDaft
Don't try to take some pointless moral high ground with me because - and I'm assuming here, because you've compared me to Marquez - you don't agree with my point of view. I am well aware of my choice of hyperbole. If you have a reasoned argument, give it to me, don't try to discredit my own because of a facile, throwaway comment I made, or else you're being just as "useless".
What also "happens all the time in politics" is that those taking an allegiance to a certain individual or group refuse to question their actions, to the point of becoming incapable of considering that they could possibly do any wrong, ever. It's a common problem with sports fans, too - I'm thinking of those who love (and love to hate) Lewis Hamilton, for example. Exactly the same is happening with certain Rossi fans here. As I said earlier, I am a Rossi fan and have been almost his entire career. However, I'm not fanatical to the point where I fail to see when he has been naughty. I'm yet to be convinced that those who are defending him can.
Rossi tried to engage Marquez in mind games. Marquez felt a need to prove himself, to the detriment of Rossi's race. While I do question the morals of getting involved with someone fighting for a championship, it A) doesn't excuse what Rossi resorted to, and B) doesn't change the fact that Rossi brought it upon himself with his own comments earlier in the week.
- 1,328
- NRW
- Vinylshark
- 4,806
- Sweden
Was only thinking Rossi might be fed up with the sport maybe.
Yamaha can't force him on the bike if that would be the case, contracts aren't always honored. Could be costly though.
- 1,377
- zzxxz
With the exception of a couple of people I don't think I've ever read such nonsense in all my life.
Let's get one thing clear, the only reason the 2 came together in the first place is because Rossi is deliberately running Marquez off the track. He's looking left all the way in to a right hander. Marquez then has to try and turn into the corner to avoid the astro turf on the outside of the track; and I think it's safe to say he'd assume Rossi would at least be trying to take the corner but he clearly wasn't. I can't be sure if Rossi kicked out but I find it very hard to believe, although after what I've seen today I don't know what to believe anymore
As for Marquez's earlier moves they were all perfectly fine, harsh but fair. Racing. Marc was clearly riding hard, hence the mistake which allowed Lorenzo through, but nothing out of control when attempting an overtake.
Now the penalty, Rossi's deliberate actions caused Marquez to DNF so in my opinion Rossi has to non score as well. The punishment doesn't fit the crime here.
Aside from that, an absolutely brilliant race from Pedrosa, lead every lap and controlled the gap behind him perfectly. Hats off.
Let's get one thing clear, the only reason the 2 came together in the first place is because Rossi is deliberately running Marquez off the track. He's looking left all the way in to a right hander. Marquez then has to try and turn into the corner to avoid the astro turf on the outside of the track; and I think it's safe to say he'd assume Rossi would at least be trying to take the corner but he clearly wasn't. I can't be sure if Rossi kicked out but I find it very hard to believe, although after what I've seen today I don't know what to believe anymore
As for Marquez's earlier moves they were all perfectly fine, harsh but fair. Racing. Marc was clearly riding hard, hence the mistake which allowed Lorenzo through, but nothing out of control when attempting an overtake.
Now the penalty, Rossi's deliberate actions caused Marquez to DNF so in my opinion Rossi has to non score as well. The punishment doesn't fit the crime here.
Aside from that, an absolutely brilliant race from Pedrosa, lead every lap and controlled the gap behind him perfectly. Hats off.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
The penalty is a joke, he deliberately rode Marquez off track, the kick itself isn't as much of an issue as the push wide though, chances are when Marquez tried to stay on track and touched Rossi it bumped his leg(this wasn't a on purpose headbutt, his head didn't move any extra in relation to his body but his bike was pointed in the direction that would of kept him even with the edge).
Eitherway this is bad, sure Marquez wasn't in the title hunt but you do not deserve special treatment because you are.
Eitherway this is bad, sure Marquez wasn't in the title hunt but you do not deserve special treatment because you are.
- 4,806
- Sweden
Just finished watching every relating video to this incident and the different
press conferences with Jarvis, Marquez, Pedrosa and Lorenzo.
Rossi did give the media a 3 minute interview where he explained how he felt,
but I still think he should have attended the podium press conference.
Why the absence?
Here's a still from one of the videos showing Rossi entering the Race Direction office
where Marquez was already waiting. Oh, to be a fly on that wall...
press conferences with Jarvis, Marquez, Pedrosa and Lorenzo.
Rossi did give the media a 3 minute interview where he explained how he felt,
but I still think he should have attended the podium press conference.
Why the absence?
Here's a still from one of the videos showing Rossi entering the Race Direction office
where Marquez was already waiting. Oh, to be a fly on that wall...
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Brend
Premium
- 11,771
- Scotland
- GTSophy-Lapos
- ClassicBrend
- 13,827
- Down under
Casey Stoner needs to go back to being a washed up second tier failed touring car driver.
Link to Rossi's interview
http://www.news.com.au/sport/breaki...laysian-gp-crash/story-fnect155-1227583111059
Link to Rossi's interview
http://www.news.com.au/sport/breaki...laysian-gp-crash/story-fnect155-1227583111059
- 981
- Sint-Truiden
- svenhjs666
A lot of discussion in here.
http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/224594/1/motogp-race-director-explains-rossi-punishment.html
I want to share my point of view,most of you will not like it anyway.
Sad/pathetic that Marquez was trying to deliberately slowing down the pace and making it difficult for Valentino to race.
I surely agree with that.Justifies that Rossi's kick?No way.
If any other rider does that,i would say the same,even when it's Marc,you can't allow things like that.
Marquez should have ran his own race (racing for the victory) and not triying to slow down Rossi.
His overtakes weren't unfair,if Rossi makes the same moves,everybody gets delighted.
Marquez played indead a dirty tactical game,but it was caused by Rossi himself.
On the press conference Rossi shouldn't have criticized Marquez race at Philip Island or the fact that Marquez wants Jorge to win the title,that triggered this all.
I'm sure if he didn't say things like that,Marquez would have raced his own race.
Why did Marquez pass Lorenzo anyway in the last lap @ Philip Island if he wants to help Jorge?
I see no logic in that.He has taken away 5 (important) points from Jorge by doing that.
But hey,Rossi is god,everything he says and does is good.He does never anything wrong.
Also Rossi's fans forgot that Marc has been punished once in the past for dangerous behaviour.
Marquez need to take lessons about that.His move @ Assen was not acceptable (i can admit that) ,but it didn't influenced the final result,so he got away with it.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/motogp/24471507
The "punishment" (he should have been black flagged) Rossi received will not harm him imo,i still believe he will win his 10th title @ Valencia.He still have an advantage of 7 points.
He will get through the field quite easely,and i don't think Jorge will win the last race.
http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/224594/1/motogp-race-director-explains-rossi-punishment.html
I want to share my point of view,most of you will not like it anyway.
Sad/pathetic that Marquez was trying to deliberately slowing down the pace and making it difficult for Valentino to race.
I surely agree with that.Justifies that Rossi's kick?No way.
If any other rider does that,i would say the same,even when it's Marc,you can't allow things like that.
Marquez should have ran his own race (racing for the victory) and not triying to slow down Rossi.
His overtakes weren't unfair,if Rossi makes the same moves,everybody gets delighted.
Marquez played indead a dirty tactical game,but it was caused by Rossi himself.
On the press conference Rossi shouldn't have criticized Marquez race at Philip Island or the fact that Marquez wants Jorge to win the title,that triggered this all.
I'm sure if he didn't say things like that,Marquez would have raced his own race.
Why did Marquez pass Lorenzo anyway in the last lap @ Philip Island if he wants to help Jorge?
I see no logic in that.He has taken away 5 (important) points from Jorge by doing that.
But hey,Rossi is god,everything he says and does is good.He does never anything wrong.
Also Rossi's fans forgot that Marc has been punished once in the past for dangerous behaviour.
Marquez need to take lessons about that.His move @ Assen was not acceptable (i can admit that) ,but it didn't influenced the final result,so he got away with it.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/motogp/24471507
The "punishment" (he should have been black flagged) Rossi received will not harm him imo,i still believe he will win his 10th title @ Valencia.He still have an advantage of 7 points.
He will get through the field quite easely,and i don't think Jorge will win the last race.
- 2,968
- Geneva
- Kimky
- Kimky
My opinion on the incident :
Marquez is a spoiled brat and I hate him, what he did was wrong and nothing that anyone can say will persuade me that he was fair during this GP with Rossi. I think that what he did was disgusting and I will never ever support Marquez again.
However what Rossi did was wrong, he should have continue fighting and not do what he did. However I can understand where he comes from and why he's so frustrated with Marquez.
To conclude I'll just say that neither Marc nor Vale are fair rider, they went over the limit a couple of time and I'm not really surprised it happen in the way it did considering the press conference on friday.
Marquez is a spoiled brat and I hate him, what he did was wrong and nothing that anyone can say will persuade me that he was fair during this GP with Rossi. I think that what he did was disgusting and I will never ever support Marquez again.
However what Rossi did was wrong, he should have continue fighting and not do what he did. However I can understand where he comes from and why he's so frustrated with Marquez.
To conclude I'll just say that neither Marc nor Vale are fair rider, they went over the limit a couple of time and I'm not really surprised it happen in the way it did considering the press conference on friday.
HKS racer
(Banned)
- 4,802
Again with this "kick".
Watch again people, there have been no kick.
Rossi slowed down and went wide because he wanted to see Marquez in his face, Rossi goal was MM to stop being a jerk. What happen'd? Rossi went wide on purpose (not illegal) Marquez has been forced to rise the bike to avoid contact, but immediately after Marc changed idea returned down with the bike trying to approach the turn like Rossi wasn't there.
So he hit Rossi's leg on purpose with handlebars and right shoulder. Rossi's feet for for an obvious physical law slipped from the bike. At the same time Marc Marquez falls like a fool. This is what really happen if you don't watch it closely you have the illusion it was a kick but it wasn't. Watch again.
Basically Marquez made the biggest scumbag move of all times, AND got away with it.
- 260
- Italy
- marco89IT
About Rossi's penalty, It was just too simple for Dorna:
-no points for Rossi (black flag, DSQ): championship over
-no sanction at all for Rossi: everyone has his view on who's more to blame, let's just say that if two drivers basically collide on purpose, some sort of penalty has to be awarded.
-Rossi starts from last place at Valencia: championship still open, just 7 points between Lorenzo and Rossi, anything can happen etc. etc. you know the media hyping stuff. I know it's an old cliché, but that's business, and for them this is the best case scenario.
And talking about Valencia, I think it's not over at all for the title. Rossi will have nothing to lose and he's used to recover from behind (bad qualifying, bad starts, sometimes both). Yamaha and Honda have such an advantage in pace that Rossi can easily be in the top 6 after 8/10 laps, we've already seen that kind of recovery from one of the top riders in the past. At that point, the pace and the behavior of (most likely) Marquez, Pedrosa, Iannone and maybe Dovizioso and Crutchlow will be a key factor,regarding both Lorenzo and Rossi. I remember at least 3 races with wet/damp track over the last 5 races at Valencia, and this on paper is a big advantage for Rossi.
It can be even better/more exciting (again, from Dorna, TVs, sponsors etc point of view) of a standard race where Lorenzo and Rossi start closely and "study" each other lap after lap keeping in mind those 7 points difference, with only Marquez as the unpredictable variable.
-no points for Rossi (black flag, DSQ): championship over
-no sanction at all for Rossi: everyone has his view on who's more to blame, let's just say that if two drivers basically collide on purpose, some sort of penalty has to be awarded.
-Rossi starts from last place at Valencia: championship still open, just 7 points between Lorenzo and Rossi, anything can happen etc. etc. you know the media hyping stuff. I know it's an old cliché, but that's business, and for them this is the best case scenario.
And talking about Valencia, I think it's not over at all for the title. Rossi will have nothing to lose and he's used to recover from behind (bad qualifying, bad starts, sometimes both). Yamaha and Honda have such an advantage in pace that Rossi can easily be in the top 6 after 8/10 laps, we've already seen that kind of recovery from one of the top riders in the past. At that point, the pace and the behavior of (most likely) Marquez, Pedrosa, Iannone and maybe Dovizioso and Crutchlow will be a key factor,regarding both Lorenzo and Rossi. I remember at least 3 races with wet/damp track over the last 5 races at Valencia, and this on paper is a big advantage for Rossi.
It can be even better/more exciting (again, from Dorna, TVs, sponsors etc point of view) of a standard race where Lorenzo and Rossi start closely and "study" each other lap after lap keeping in mind those 7 points difference, with only Marquez as the unpredictable variable.
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- 1,377
- zzxxz
We can't ignore the fact that the last time Rossi took a championship down to Valencia he was 8 points in front of Hayden in 2006 but crashed and Hayden won the title. Rossi doesn't go too well there, and he will need to get on the podium at least. If Lorenzo wins, Rossi will need 2nd and if Lorenzo is 2nd Rossi needs 3rd. You can also assume Marquez won't be finishing in front of Lorenzo so Pedrosa is Rossi's only hope.
Yes it is. Do what you like on an empty race track but start going off line because there's someone outside of you is not allowed, the sport is dangerous enough without people pulling stupid moves like that. Barbera was put to the back of the grid for accidentally hitting Pol in warm up, yet Rossi gets an arguably smaller punishment for doing it deliberately in a race. Bizarre.
How exactly did he get away with anything? Marquez got no points and Rossi got 16 which would most likely have been 13 had he not made the daft move in the first place. He'd also be starting somewhere near the front next time.
HKS racer
(Banned)
- 4,802
Not true. If that's the case you have to sanction every single time Marc Marquez overtake Rossi and immediately slow down in the middle of the turn.
Marquez goal was to avoid Rossi to win che championship. Rossi will start from last plance on last race thanks to MM actor studio performance.
- 23
- Italy
- Anfaugriz
Was Rossi move irregular? Yes.
Did Marquez deserve it? Yes.
Does a move like that of Rossi deserve a penalty? Yes, in most cases, not in this one.
Marquez thinks he's playing Play Station and he can boycott riders he doesn't like. An irresponsible child like him should not be allowed to race. I had never seen anything like that before.
- 1,377
- zzxxz
There's a difference between overtaking someone and forcing them off track. Marquez never stopped Rossi from taking a corner, he just got there first. It was all clean racing while slightly aggressive but Rossi brought it upon himself by winding Marquez up on Thursday.
I believe Marquez had the pace to run with Lorenzo, if Rossi wanted to calm things down he had plenty of opportunities to sit behind Marquez. Don't **** a guy off and expect him to leave you alone.
- 4,806
- Sweden
Rossi unsure if he will race in Valencia MotoGP decider.
http://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/rossi-unsure-if-he-will-race-in-valencia-motogp-decider/
http://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/rossi-unsure-if-he-will-race-in-valencia-motogp-decider/
- 981
- Sint-Truiden
- svenhjs666
- 981
- Sint-Truiden
- svenhjs666
I've watched the footage again from different angles,but i won't change my mind about the kick.
I can partial agree with your opinion,but for me there was a kick (intential move with his leg) and not a slip.Not caused by a contact.
If his foot had slipped,he should have at least a moment of unstability,a wobble or something like that,he could even have crashed by losing his front.
You can see he has the bike under full control and that's why it was an intentional move of his leg.
Once again,MM shouldn't have annoyed Rossi like this and raced his own race.
What if you reverse the situation,if Marc Was Vale?
My point is actually useless,i know it myself (so nobody needs to tell me that) but still.
Every Rossi fan would say that Marc had kicked of Vale,now they disagree.
About Marc passing manouvres,again switch them both and every Rossi fan would say,what a breatthaking passes,how brave they are,etc...
Now they criticize MM because he dares to take such risks.
If i was Marc and had the intention to let Vale crash,i would have done it in a slow corner,not in fluid fast sections.
That would be to dangerous for yourself and for your opponent.
- 1,433
- Northern Ireland
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the most relevant permutations are:
If Lorenzo finishes 3rd, Rossi needs 6th or better,
If Lorenzo finishes 2nd, Rossi needs 3rd,
And if Lorenzo is 1st, Rossi needs 2nd.
I don't see the last two happening - even if Rossi was starting up at the front, with an on form Pedrosa and an, ahem, "unhelpful" Marquez I think he'd struggle to podium. Starting at the back? Surely impossible.
But, if it's a Honda 1-2, and Rossi doesn't get into any trouble at the start then he's looking at a whole race to catch up to the likes of the Ducatis/Tech 3/Cal, and doesn't have to worry about nabbing at least a couple of them? That sounds doable. My gut feeling is it's still unlikely as there's so much that could go wrong, so it's Lorenzo's to lose, but there is a scenario for Rossi there that sounds feasible. And he'll know it - the "it's all over and I might not race" talk is just more posturing I'm sure.
If Lorenzo finishes 3rd, Rossi needs 6th or better,
If Lorenzo finishes 2nd, Rossi needs 3rd,
And if Lorenzo is 1st, Rossi needs 2nd.
I don't see the last two happening - even if Rossi was starting up at the front, with an on form Pedrosa and an, ahem, "unhelpful" Marquez I think he'd struggle to podium. Starting at the back? Surely impossible.
But, if it's a Honda 1-2, and Rossi doesn't get into any trouble at the start then he's looking at a whole race to catch up to the likes of the Ducatis/Tech 3/Cal, and doesn't have to worry about nabbing at least a couple of them? That sounds doable. My gut feeling is it's still unlikely as there's so much that could go wrong, so it's Lorenzo's to lose, but there is a scenario for Rossi there that sounds feasible. And he'll know it - the "it's all over and I might not race" talk is just more posturing I'm sure.
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