2018 Virgin Australia Supercars ChampionshipTouring Cars

[Spacegoat]

If they thought the V6TT was unpopular among the fanbase, they haven't seen anything yet. The backlash against even the idea of this, will be massive.

Seriously. Go hug a tree & get off looking at a pretty rainbow or something.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Why can't the hybrid-obsessed just leave this hocus pocus crap to Formula E?

Seriously. Go hug a tree & get off looking at a pretty rainbow or something.

Because one FE isn't hybrid. Two it is modern technology, sorry but the days of Peter Brock and Dick Johnson carb'd v8, v6 and cave man fuel injected big lag turbo 4 bangers are dead (TCM is a thing as you know). You're sadly 30 years still living in the past if that's what you want.

Finally it's quite strange reading how some are so myopic that they see this move as some hippy revolution on racing. And then spew what you just did in your last line. Luckily for you more so than those of us that see more realistic reasons why it shouldn't happen, there are sponsors just as grumpy and old and will leave if this did happen. Though Boost did say they would leave if V8s were pushed out, didn't say anything about a V8 hybrid.

I remember, for a while, V8SC compared the series more towards NASCAR. Now, it's like they're chasing chasing F1. Not good.

That's a bad way to look at it, the reason Hybrid "looks expensive" is because of the constant push in perfecting it between the main groups that use it. Hybrid systems have been around since @Pete05 was cheering for Brock during the Group A days. This isn't a new technology, and it's been in racing (consistently) for 15 years now and yet we still want to pretend it's expensive, overly complicated and "green".

 

[05XR8]

Because one FE isn't hybrid. Two it is modern technology, sorry but the days of Peter Brock and Dick Johnson carb'd v8, v6 and cave man fuel injected big lag turbo 4 bangers are dead (TCM is a thing as you know). You're sadly 30 years still living in the past if that's what you want.

Finally it's quite strange reading how some are so myopic that they see this move as some hippy revolution on racing. And then spew what you just did in your last line. Luckily for you more so than those of us that see more realistic reasons why it shouldn't happen, there are sponsors just as grumpy and old and will leave if this did happen. Though Boost did say they would leave if V8s were pushed out, didn't say anything about a V8 hybrid.



That's a bad way to look at it, the reason Hybrid "looks expensive" is because of the constant push in perfecting it between the main groups that use it. Hybrid systems have been around since @Pete05 was cheering for Brock during the Group A days. This isn't a new technology, and it's been in racing (consistently) for 15 years now and yet we still want to pretend it's expensive, overly complicated and "green".

I'm not worried about cost. It's their reasoning to study it that worries me. In the past, V8SC talked a lot about NASCAR. Now, VASC talk more about F1. Some of it due to a closer relationship with F1(after the Yas Marina races, it died down. To now, with Singapore and Asian events talks).

Saying they want to do(maybe in the future) what F1 are doing, is one thing. However, their main agenda is to get more manufacturers. Seamer mentioned VASC are talking to marques to see what they want in this series.
Rod Mash is saying VASC should be innovating not following.
Tim Storey is saying how I feel about it. Don't do it just to get new marque bin. Do it, but make sure thd fans are entertained first.

Remember, from '93 to now, the racing has been and still is fantastic. From only two marques to four, to five, down to four and the current three. How many makes hasn't mattered. It's the racing that's important.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm not worried about cost. It's their reasoning to study it that worries me. In the past, V8SC talked a lot about NASCAR. Now, VASC talk more about F1. Some of it due to a closer relationship with F1(after the Yas Marina races, it died down. To now, with Singapore and Asian events talks).

Saying they want to do(maybe in the future) what F1 are doing, is one thing. However, their main agenda is to get more manufacturers. Seamer mentioned VASC are talking to marques to see what they want in this series.
Rod Mash is saying VASC should be innovating not following.
Tim Storey is saying how I feel about it. Don't do it just to get new marque bin. Do it, but make sure thd fans are entertained first.

Remember, from '93 to now, the racing has been and still is fantastic. From only two marques to four, to five, down to four and the current three. How many makes hasn't mattered. It's the racing that's important.

I wouldn't even look at it from an F1 perspective. Look at the people in recent years who have joined and become partners with some of the older Australian team leaders. Penske, Andretti, Brown for example, people who have Sports car teams and Indy teams more so, are interested perhaps with manufactures in making a touring car series more advanced like others. Why VASC was ever compared to NASCAR is beyond me, because you guys were never even in the same ball park.

VASC can't do what F1 does, because they nor teams have the resources so to get to that extent is a pipe dream and you don't need a study to figure that out. Now trying to mimic F1 or Sportscars on the cheap, is something they could do. Rod Nash isn't the only one saying that either and he's not wrong, this isn't Group A touring cars, this is the modern era. They need to figure out something that works in it, or implode and then wait 20 years and run these current cars in a TCM nostalgia.

Also who cares if the racing from 93 to now has been great, it's basis was predicated on an idea that those two groups racing each other weren't going to die out. And then the Manufacturing flipped it upside down. And now Holden is at risk of never being again, and Ford being highly limited...if it was just racing then fine, but this isn't some grass root series that hinges on simple good racing. This is a series where multi millionaire to billionaire team owners and sponsors and manufacture, operate and run. It'd be quite something if that died out.

 

[CodeRedR51]

We all know how this will go. They didn't accept the V6, they won't accept the hybrid stuff.

Not every major racing series needs to be fancy new tech. The racing is great with what they have. Why change a good thing?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

We all know how this will go. They didn't accept the V6, they won't accept the hybrid stuff.

Not every major racing series needs to be fancy new tech. The racing is great with what they have. Why change a good thing?

While I agree with you mostly, it's not fancy, it's not new. And who says the racing will be compromised? I don't see it being needed because VASC has never been a series about breaking technology barriers, outside of group A.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Why can't the engineers just leave this engineering crap to Formula E?

FTFY.

 

[05XR8]

I wouldn't even look at it from an F1 perspective. Look at the people in recent years who have joined and become partners with some of the older Australian team leaders. Penske, Andretti, Brown for example, people who have Sports car teams and Indy teams more so, are interested perhaps with manufactures in making a touring car series more advanced like others. Why VASC was ever compared to NASCAR is beyond me, because you guys were never even in the same ball park.

VASC can't do what F1 does, because they nor teams have the resources so to get to that extent is a pipe dream and you don't need a study to figure that out. Now trying to mimic F1 or Sportscars on the cheap, is something they could do. Rod Nash isn't the only one saying that either and he's not wrong, this isn't Group A touring cars, this is the modern era. They need to figure out something that works in it, or implode and then wait 20 years and run these current cars in a TCM nostalgia.

Also who cares if the racing from 93 to now has been great, it's basis was predicated on an idea that those two groups racing each other weren't going to die out. And then the Manufacturing flipped it upside down. And now Holden is at risk of never being again, and Ford being highly limited...if it was just racing then fine, but this isn't some grass root series that hinges on simple good racing. This is a series where multi millionaire to billionaire team owners and sponsors and manufacture, operate and run. It'd be quite something if that died out.

In short, Penske joined to further his business here. Andretti joined because of Penske. They both admit that.

With Andretti looking at other marques, I'm not in the boardroom to know if hybrids were a part of their discussion. Andretti just wants to beat Penske. He said so.

I'm all for VASC moving forward in technology. It's just, VASC have a track record of knee jeering with rules and regulations. COTF did get Nissan in. Remember Todd Kelly saying V8SC would accommodate them and then reneged when Ford and Holden wouldn't budge to detune further?
Z CRemember the "jungle juice" for the Nissan and AMG?
That's just part of this series' track record. AWe also have their rule changes per round.

COTF didn't last long. We're just about into Gen 3 after 4years of COTF and 4years of Gen 2. No matter how VASC try to change, the racing is still exciting.and no doubt has gotten better with the new calibre of drivers entering the series. Also, the moving around of engineers.
That's my point(also, what R1600Turbo said).

 

[Pete05]

FTFY.

I'll happily admit to being a dinosaur about hybrids & electric cars so, I didn't think it needed fixing. That's how I really feel.

Thanks anyway 👍

To clarify, if our premier touring car class went screaming four, turbo 6 or, kept the roaring V8s it wouldn't worry me.
Just keep the voodoo for the dolls they stick pins in.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

In short, Penske joined to further his business here. Andretti joined because of Penske. They both admit that.

That's not the point you've clearly missed it. I know why they joined, but they join things and changes happen when they do so. If you want to bring up the history of these race owners to see that and understand why VASC shouldn't be any different we can. The point is these are massive names for international racing, and thus them joining VASC while extending their businesses shouldn't be simply looked at as just that.

With Andretti looking at other marques, I'm not in the boardroom to know if hybrids were a part of their discussion. Andretti just wants to beat Penske. He said so.

Again read the above.

I'm all for VASC moving forward in technology. It's just, VASC have a track record of knee jeering with rules and regulations. COTF did get Nissan in. Remember Todd Kelly saying V8SC would accommodate them and then reneged when Ford and Holden wouldn't budge to detune further?
Z CRemember the "jungle juice" for the Nissan and AMG?
That's just part of this series' track record. AWe also have their rule changes per round.

Here's the problem with your analysis of this, you put all the blame on the series and none of it on teams that I see time and time again many of us blame for their continued wish to have a death grip on the series. And more so compromise the racing.

In saying that though there is still more blame to shed on the teams, or manufactures even, in that those new groups that joined didn't want to either invest, play by the rules, and really wanted things given to them. This is as equally bad as it is of those original teams not wanting to budge for the newcomers.

COTF didn't last long. We're just about into Gen 3 after 4years of COTF and 4years of Gen 2. No matter how VASC try to change, the racing is still exciting.and no doubt has gotten better with the new calibre of drivers entering the series. Also, the moving around of engineers.
That's my point(also, what R1600Turbo said).

COTF didn't last long because it wasn't given much time to last, VASC and those who helped formulate this thought it would be enough to actually get manufactures to join. Others just kept with the status quo, figured they'd fight that fight when it came about, and look V6 tt are dead for the moment, and any manufacture that saw a viable touring series with various engine choices that are more in line with their production, wont be joining. Or will take some massive motivation to join. The entire environment from the teams, to the organization, and even fans is toxic and creates the makes for the series to implode. Just of a matter of when if it keeps up.

 

[05XR8]

That's not the point you've clearly missed it. I know why they joined, but they join things and changes happen when they do so. If you want to bring up the history of these race owners to see that and understand why VASC shouldn't be any different we can. The point is these are massive names for international racing, and thus them joining VASC while extending their businesses shouldn't be simply looked at as just that.



Again read the above.



Here's the problem with your analysis of this, you put all the blame on the series and none of it on teams that I see time and time again many of us blame for their continued wish to have a death grip on the series. And more so compromise the racing.

In saying that though there is still more blame to shed on the teams, or manufactures even, in that those new groups that joined didn't want to either invest, play by the rules, and really wanted things given to them. This is as equally bad as it is of those original teams not wanting to budge for the newcomers.



COTF didn't last long because it wasn't given much time to last, VASC and those who helped formulate this thought it would be enough to actually get manufactures to join. Others just kept with the status quo, figured they'd fight that fight when it came about, and look V6 tt are dead for the moment, and any manufacture that saw a viable touring series with various engine choices that are more in line with their production, wont be joining. Or will take some massive motivation to join. The entire environment from the teams, to the organization, and even fans is toxic and creates the makes for the series to implode. Just of a matter of when if it keeps up.

Just because Penske and Andretti joined, doesn't mean they're in it to change things. That's Roland Dane's thing.

Besides that, I haven't missed anything. I do put it on VASC(along with their bad rule making) and I've also stated Ford and Holden didn't want to help Nissan and AMG. Volvo came in and were successful straight away. Nissan admitted not taking the series seriously. AMG(Australia) were just fighting to be far removed from the series.

The points I made, are all part of the big picture of this series. This study to only gain new marques, is the root to the same problem faced with COTF and Gen2.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Just because Penske and Andretti joined, doesn't mean they're in it to change things. That's Roland Dane's thing.

Besides that, I haven't missed anything. I do put it on VASC(along with their bad rule making) and I've also stated Ford and Holden didn't want to help Nissan and AMG. Volvo came in and were successful straight away. Nissan admitted not taking the series seriously. AMG(Australia) were just fighting to be far removed from the series.

The points I made, are all part of the big picture of this series. This study to only gain new marques, is the root to the same problem faced with COTF and Gen2.

No one is saying they outright joined to change things, but clearly some things needed to be changed, and that is why Penske pressed on Ford to do more since he had that ability to jump ship with easy if they didn't. And look what came of it, a bigger use of the gen 2 rules than we've seen yet. Andretti then decided to press on GM and now a design study is supposedly being addressed for the Camaro. I imagine had they not joined, Tickford and DJR and T8 would have still been in the same boat they currently are with some okay with that and others saying "nothing we can do".

Volvo were successful because they actually paid their dues to be a powerhouse that could challenge the top teams from Ford and Holden. Had the investments that we now know Nissan did badly in gone over better, then perhaps they'd have shown more success rather than doing so now. We know Mercedes didn't do anything for Betty and that's why they struggled and their success with that car is because of Betty's team. So that's on those two manufactures, and VASC not holding them up to it, and the other two at the time being unwilling to see the playing field be balanced all played a part. The only reason I don't praise Volvo more is due to leaving somewhat high and dry GRM. However, I'm guessing they saw things they didn't really like in VASC and why they were adamant to leave once the contract was done.

I don't think the points you made are all part of the big picture, you have no basis to point to that the COTF has done anything to harm the series. If anything it brought in makes, it expanded to field, racing has still been good. And yet the same teams dominate the sports before and after the COTF. When teams, sponsors and again fans make a big fuss and cater to those blocking potential innovation, that could expand and help the sport grow into the future rather than diminish, that is the problem. You can't put that solely on VASC execs like your prior posts seemed to do.

Also @Pete05 I had a follow up question to your "voodoo" trite. If KERS systems are voodoo, then do you believe Turbo technology is also voodoo?

 

[Pete05]

No one is saying they outright joined to change things, but clearly some things needed to be changed, and that is why Penske pressed on Ford to do more since he had that ability to jump ship with easy if they didn't. And look what came of it, a bigger use of the gen 2 rules than we've seen yet. Andretti then decided to press on GM and now a design study is supposedly being addressed for the Camaro. I imagine had they not joined, Tickford and DJR and T8 would have still been in the same boat they currently are with some okay with that and others saying "nothing we can do".

Volvo were successful because they actually paid their dues to be a powerhouse that could challenge the top teams from Ford and Holden. Had the investments that we now know Nissan did badly in gone over better, then perhaps they'd have shown more success rather than doing so now. We know Mercedes didn't do anything for Betty and that's why they struggled and their success with that car is because of Betty's team. So that's on those two manufactures, and VASC not holding them up to it, and the other two at the time being unwilling to see the playing field be balanced all played a part. The only reason I don't praise Volvo more is due to leaving somewhat high and dry GRM. However, I'm guessing they saw things they didn't really like in VASC and why they were adamant to leave once the contract was done.

I don't think the points you made are all part of the big picture, you have no basis to point to that the COTF has done anything to harm the series. If anything it brought in makes, it expanded to field, racing has still been good. And yet the same teams dominate the sports before and after the COTF. When teams, sponsors and again fans make a big fuss and cater to those blocking potential innovation, that could expand and help the sport grow into the future rather than diminish, that is the problem. You can't put that solely on VASC execs like your prior posts seemed to do.

Also @Pete05 I had a follow up question to your "voodoo" trite. If KERS systems are voodoo, then do you believe Turbo technology is also voodoo?

Turbocharging was around before I discovered motorsport & if done properly, and I'm thinking back to 80's F1 qualifying one-lap grenades, make the sport more exciting to watch.
I also enjoyed watching the top guys strap on a Sierra for a shootout lap at Bathurst.

I'll add that I drive a turbocharged truck & that's soooo much better than the alternative.

Turbos I appreciate, hybrids I don't.
No thanks, not interested & no sale.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Turbocharging was around before I discovered motorsport & if done properly, and I'm thinking back to 80's F1 qualifying one-lap grenades, make the sport more exciting to watch.
I also enjoyed watching the top guys strap on a Sierra for a shootout lap at Bathurst.

I'll add that I drive a turbocharged truck & that's soooo much better than the alternative.

Turbos I appreciate, hybrids I don't.
No thanks, not interested & no sale.

Doesn't one, answer the question I ask. Two hybrid technology has been around at little less longer than Turbo technology mainstream wise, and has been around longer then it general automotive wise.

I don't really care or am asking about the "awesome" stuff you enjoyed watching. What I'm trying to point out to you is that your logic in being okay with one technology that uses similar "voodoo", is quite hypocritical to your denouncing of another technology. So if you want to keep up with the petty semantics that's fine, the only thing I'm selling is logic/rational thought.

 

[FPV MIC]

My 2 cents,

The racing has never been closer so leave the cars as they are... for now. It doesn't hurt to look to the future and in reality they must to survive, but now isn't the time to introduce more technology, leave that for F1 and Formula E. The main place the inovation should be taking place at the moment is off the track where the crowd is. There's a reason the Adelaide 500 pulls the crowd it does, and that's simply because of all the off-track action. The event has more of a festival type atmosphere that nowhere else in Australia has been able to replicate, yet. It's amazing how family friendly the event as a whole is.

This is an article from before this years race about the event... and they were proven to be right. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-...liams-will-drag-spectators-to-v8-race/9485118 A politician with some forethought??? That's gotta be a first


I know this won't work everywhere, tracks like The Bend being one of my major concerns, simply because of the logistics of the place. Travel time to get there and back over three days would be in excess of six hours for me, and that's not taking traffic into account. This will be an event for the Supercars racing enthusiast only and at this point in time, that's the V8 crowd.

I've used S.A. as an example because I have far more knowledge of what goes on here.

 

[Spacegoat]

Earl Bamber to do double duty at Bathurst. He'll team with Brenton Grove for the 250km Super2 race.

 

[05XR8]

No one is saying they outright joined to change things, but clearly some things needed to be changed, and that is why Penske pressed on Ford to do more since he had that ability to jump ship with easy if they didn't. And look what came of it, a bigger use of the gen 2 rules than we've seen yet. Andretti then decided to press on GM and now a design study is supposedly being addressed for the Camaro. I imagine had they not joined, Tickford and DJR and T8 would have still been in the same boat they currently are with some okay with that and others saying "nothing we can do".

Volvo were successful because they actually paid their dues to be a powerhouse that could challenge the top teams from Ford and Holden. Had the investments that we now know Nissan did badly in gone over better, then perhaps they'd have shown more success rather than doing so now. We know Mercedes didn't do anything for Betty and that's why they struggled and their success with that car is because of Betty's team. So that's on those two manufactures, and VASC not holding them up to it, and the other two at the time being unwilling to see the playing field be balanced all played a part. The only reason I don't praise Volvo more is due to leaving somewhat high and dry GRM. However, I'm guessing they saw things they didn't really like in VASC and why they were adamant to leave once the contract was done.

I don't think the points you made are all part of the big picture, you have no basis to point to that the COTF has done anything to harm the series. If anything it brought in makes, it expanded to field, racing has still been good. And yet the same teams dominate the sports before and after the COTF. When teams, sponsors and again fans make a big fuss and cater to those blocking potential innovation, that could expand and help the sport grow into the future rather than diminish, that is the problem. You can't put that solely on VASC execs like your prior posts seemed to do.

Also @Pete05 I had a follow up question to your "voodoo" trite. If KERS systems are voodoo, then do you believe Turbo technology is also voodoo?

The root of the problem are the engines. COTF was said to cost a team $250k. That's what made teams sign on the dotted line. 18" wheels, moving the fuel tank, moving the driver more inward. The car was said to feel more like a Carrera Cup car, which the drivers like.

Ford and GM had the option to do like. HWA and NISMO, run a DOHC engine. Ford said why since they had a proven 20year old engine. Also, Erebus were of the understanding, drive by wire, LED lights, and some other features, were due to be mandatory in the future. Erebus scrapped DBW due needing more time to test(remember, they built those cars in 3 months). They also, as you know, incorporated their e cell safety structure before any other team.

TV8 was the problem. Sure, new marques came in, but beyond that, no one else wanted to play because of Ford and Holden's 20year advantage.
COTF should have made any engine a rule back then. Funny, fans didn't even want new marques in, but fans of those marques and of the newest female owner, embraced them once racing began.

Fast forward to now. Team owners changes, but look at the stories without changing the cars: Cinderella story for DJRTP, WAU, GRM, TEKNO, EREBUS.

Again, I'm all for change, but not like for the reason VASC are saying.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The root of the problem are the engines. COTF was said to cost a team $250k. That's what made teams sign on the dotted line. 18" wheels, moving the fuel tank, moving the driver more inward. The car was said to feel more like a Carrera Cup car, which the drivers like.

Engines were a mixture of issues, between VASC not sticking to their guns and mainstay teams/manufactures not willing to level out the playing field for new teams coming in. And those new groups HWA and Nissan, either not investing enough or doing so sloppily.

Ford and GM had the option to do like. HWA and NISMO, run a DOHC engine. Ford said why since they had a proven 20year old engine. Also, Erebus were of the understanding, drive by wire, LED lights, and some other features, were due to be mandatory in the future. Erebus scrapped DBW due needing more time to test(remember, they built those cars in 3 months). They also, as you know, incorporated their e cell safety structure before any other team.

Which they were right, why stop using proven push rods for minimal gains in a overhead. As for HWA, yes I recall them doing all that, but no where was it every hinted or said that'd be the future of the sport. And even still, they still left Betty with the bigger bag of work.

TV8 was the problem. Sure, new marques came in, but beyond that, no one else wanted to play because of Ford and Holden's 20year advantage.
COTF should have made any engine a rule back then. Funny, fans didn't even want new marques in, but fans of those marques and of the newest female owner, embraced them once racing began.

Fast forward to now. Team owners changes, but look at the stories without changing the cars: Cinderella story for DJRTP, WAU, GRM, TEKNO, EREBUS.

Again, I'm all for change, but not like for the reason VASC are saying.

I wouldn't call any of those "Cinderella stories" other than Erebus winning with Merc.

As for change VASC is right, the sport needs to change, if you want Ford and Holden only fine, but the longevity of that isn't there and we know this as Holden come closer to death.

 

[05XR8]

Engines were a mixture of issues, between VASC not sticking to their guns and mainstay teams/manufactures not willing to level out the playing field for new teams coming in. And those new groups HWA and Nissan, either not investing enough or doing so sloppily.



Which they were right, why stop using proven push rods for minimal gains in a overhead. As for HWA, yes I recall them doing all that, but no where was it every hinted or said that'd be the future of the sport. And even still, they still left Betty with the bigger bag of work.



I wouldn't call any of those "Cinderella stories" other than Erebus winning with Merc.

As for change VASC is right, the sport needs to change, if you want Ford and Holden only fine, but the longevity of that isn't there and we know this as Holden come closer to death.

DJR had no money and were rescued by Penske. Finished 1st in the TC.

GRM were nowhere and Volvo came in. That combination with Scott, got them 3rd in the Championship.

TEKNO win Bathurst.

WAU have risen since the merger. They were nowhere the last couple of years and won at Albert Park.

I didn't say Ford and Holden had to change engines.

Critically, the engine rules have been opened up to include double-overhead camshaft engines, although many of the regulations, including the 5.0 litre capacity, 10:1 compression ratio and 7,500rpm rev limit, remain centred around the pre-existing pushrod Ford and Holden units

https://www.speedcafe.com/2013/07/24/bmw-flatly-reject-v8-supercars-approach/

I was saying VASC should have made it any engine at the onset of COTF. VASC could have stuck to their guns as you say.
Now, granted, any series has a give and take. I'm not disillusioned about that. There's about 2 1/2 years before Gen3. VASC should just be posting: "Hybrids, NA, forced induction, V12/V8/V6/I6/I5/I4 are welcome". If they've done that, fine.

Teams were willing to run without manufacturer support anyway. GRM if they kept the S60s, Erebus, Ford teams and Nissan, which they are going to do.

This series could be one make like a series in Brasil or like F1, NASCAR or whatever. The racing itself, would still be paramount, over what marque people are driving.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

DJR had no money and were rescued by Penske. Finished 1st in the TC.

Not really a Cinderella story so...

GRM were nowhere and Volvo came in. That combination with Scott, got them 3rd in the Championship.

Okay, again not a Cinderella story

TEKNO win Bathurst.

WAU have risen since the merger. They were nowhere the last couple of years and won at Albert Park.

Both of these also not a Cinderella story. Though I guess the argument could be more so made for Tekno, but they weren't exactly slow in their enduro stint of that season. And if it weren't for racing being racing, and the leaders taking themselves out, they probably wouldn't have won. WAU is the same as your Penske claim, a major Motorsports owner comes in with vast resources and dominates as expected given time. That's not a fairy tale story that is what happens when a major business owner buys in and takes over.

How any of this has to do with VASC ruling and teams at the top being as bad as other major series where they're unwilling to make sure competition flourishes, I'm not seeing. In fact all I see from this is more proof that someone with money, engineering, or manufacturing of a large scale must come in for you to succeed in VASC. And again that is on multiple parties.

I didn't say Ford and Holden had to change engines.

No one said you did

https://www.speedcafe.com/2013/07/24/bmw-flatly-reject-v8-supercars-approach/

I was saying VASC should have made it any engine at the onset of COTF. VASC could have stuck to their guns as you say.
Now, granted, any series has a give and take. I'm not disillusioned about that. There's about 2 1/2 years before Gen3. VASC should just be posting: "Hybrids, NA, forced induction, V12/V8/V6/I6/I5/I4 are welcome". If they've done that, fine.

Teams were willing to run without manufacturer support anyway. GRM if they kept the S60s, Erebus, Ford teams and Nissan, which they are going to do.

This series could be one make like a series in Brasil or like F1, NASCAR or whatever. The racing itself, would still be paramount, over what marque people are driving.

Why should that do that? By sticking to their guns I mean they should bring out a limited number of engine sizes and types, a budget/cost cap, a nigh-spec aero template, and standard safety enhancements that have to conform to this. It could be a mixture of a few series as far as rule building goes.

If you open it up too much then people wont want to join, because they'll question how you balance that out fairly across the board. Because if you can't then people will try to switch to what is naturally going to be the strongest even after BoP.

Also teams are willing to run without support, because at the end of the day this is their means of life. I would expect any of these teams to press on. The difference between a Holden backed team and a second rate team running Holden cars, is that extra funding and understanding of engineering the cars as best possible to the rules. That gives slight advantages and over a season seem massive, even if the second rate team is running an old T8 or WAU car.

 

[05XR8]

Not really a Cinderella story so...



Okay, again not a Cinderella story



Both of these also not a Cinderella story. Though I guess the argument could be more so made for Tekno, but they weren't exactly slow in their enduro stint of that season. And if it weren't for racing being racing, and the leaders taking themselves out, they probably wouldn't have won. WAU is the same as your Penske claim, a major Motorsports owner comes in with vast resources and dominates as expected given time. That's not a fairy tale story that is what happens when a major business owner buys in and takes over.

How any of this has to do with VASC ruling and teams at the top being as bad as other major series where they're unwilling to make sure competition flourishes, I'm not seeing. In fact all I see from this is more proof that someone with money, engineering, or manufacturing of a large scale must come in for you to succeed in VASC. And again that is on multiple parties.



No one said you did


Why should that do that? By sticking to their guns I mean they should bring out a limited number of engine sizes and types, a budget/cost cap, a nigh-spec aero template, and standard safety enhancements that have to conform to this. It could be a mixture of a few series as far as rule building goes.

If you open it up too much then people wont want to join, because they'll question how you balance that out fairly across the board. Because if you can't then people will try to switch to what is naturally going to be the strongest even after BoP.

Also teams are willing to run without support, because at the end of the day this is their means of life. I would expect any of these teams to press on. The difference between a Holden backed team and a second rate team running Holden cars, is that extra funding and understanding of engineering the cars as best possible to the rules. That gives slight advantages and over a season seem massive, even if the second rate team is running an old T8 or WAU car.

Really? So DJR is down and out and Penske rides in on a white horse to come and save them. That's not a Cinderella story? Wow.

Okay, anyway, I'll see what comes of this study.

 

[05XR8]

I guess they can fit speaker boxes in the boot.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2018/06/07/aussie-racing-cars-eyes-electric-future/

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Really? So DJR is down and out and Penske rides in on a white horse to come and save them. That's not a Cinderella story? Wow.

Okay, anyway, I'll see what comes of this study.

So what if they were down and out, a group with 40 + years of international racing experience and winning championships across many of them buys the team and that to you is a Cinderella story? By that logic so is the current Mercedes team. Or hell even RBR.

 

[05XR8]

So what if they were down and out, a group with 40 + years of international racing experience and winning championships across many of them buys the team and that to you is a Cinderella story? By that logic so is the current Mercedes team. Or hell even RBR.

What I posted, is literally the basis of a Cinderella story. I really can't explain it any simpler. You can respond if you like, I'll move on.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

What I posted, is literally the basis of a Cinderella story. I really can't explain it any simpler. You can respond if you like, I'll move on.

No the basis for an Cinderella story is a Brawn GP, a Damon Hill winning with Jordan after many questioned his release from Williams being bitter sweet. DJR origins is a Cinderella story. Being bought up by a benefactor with experience rather than being able to figure it out on your own is not one, it's the business of racing.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I just spotted the Tickford Racing merchandise trailer, sans truck, parked out on the side of the road in the southern suburbs of Adelaide (Majors Rd. for the locals). That’s a long way from their home base and far off the expected route to Darwin.

 

[Pete05]

I just spotted the Tickford Racing merchandise trailer, sans truck, parked out on the side of the road in the southern suburbs of Adelaide (Majors Rd. for the locals). That’s a long way from their home base and far off the expected route to Darwin.

It didn't have Police tape around it did it?

Allan Moffat knows how race related things can go missing in that part of the Country

Seriously though, I agree

 

[05XR8]

 

[CodeRedR51]

Full circuit being used for Sydney night races after all.

http://www.supercars.com/news/championship/supernight-to-run-on-full-sydney-circuit/?sf191344906=1

 

[05XR8]

Full circuit being used for Sydney night races after all.

http://www.supercars.com/news/championship/supernight-to-run-on-full-sydney-circuit/?sf191344906=1

Definitely making the trip.