2023 Repco Supercars ChampionshipTouring Cars

[05XR8]

This not good news for the series.

Now, official communication from within the Blue Oval has further stoked the parity debate, with an assertion that the Supercars parity trigger has been hit several times.

It quoted Tickford Racing Team Principal Tim Edwards declaring, “There is something wrong.

“The parity keeps getting triggered constantly.

“It’s six or seven races now where we’ve hit the trigger.”

The ‘trigger’ to which Edwards refers is a condition stipulated within the Teams Racing Charter, which outlines the rights and responsibilities of being an entrant in the Repco Supercars Championship.

Although details are a closely guarded secret, it is a formula based on session results and has existed as a concept within the championship for at least two decades.

If the results are too lopsided, then the parity trigger has been hit and Supercars is obliged to make certain undertakings.

Claim from Ford camp that Supercars parity trigger has been hit

It has been claimed via official Ford Australia PR that the Supercars parity trigger has ben hit. Picture: InSyde Media

www.speedcafe.com

I don't know if the 'trigger' is still the same but if I recall correctly it used to be 0.2 seconds per (race???) lap difference between the fastest of each brand, but over a sample size going down through the field of a number of cars (but I'm not sure of the sample size. This part has, as far as I know, always been undisclosed).

Supercars really need to be open with the data at this point or I feel the series in serious jeopardy, with at least a couple of bad options occurring that I can see. One is legal action over not properly investigating parity after these trigger points have been hit on so many occasions, and the second is Ford pulling all sponsorship of the series, which is something that I don't think anyone wants, GM fans included.

... Or has Supercars got something to hide?

Edit: One thing is for sure, Supercars had better take a good long look at themselves. They've been warned by Mark Rushbrook, and now the Ford teams and Ford Australia are buying in as well.

Let me just be clear about my above post(Before just reading the Speedcafe.com article). I was fine with the different drivers winning, No doubt, watching the race, I was defintiely looking at where the blue rectangles at on the totem. Of course I make many posts of my concerns, but there's only so much bickering one can do.

 

[FPV MIC]

Let me just be clear about my above post(Before just reading the Speedcafe.com article). I was fine with the different drivers winning, No doubt, watching the race, I was defintiely looking at where the blue rectangles at on the totem. Of course I make many posts of my concerns, but there's only so much bickering one can do.

I'm fine with different drivers winning too, hence me congratulating Frosty and Charlie (I should add my congratulations to Jack and Matt Stone as well), in fact probably like all of us here, it's something I crave more of as it's something Gen 3 was supposed to achieve... just not so one sided on the brand front.

 

[Twisteddrift]

I'm fine with different drivers winning too, hence me congratulating Frosty and Charlie (I should add my congratulations to Jack and Matt Stone as well), in fact probably like all of us here, it's something I crave more of as it's something Gen 3 was supposed to achieve... just not so one sided on the brand front.

Yeah it’s just not right. I don’t know if this has been said before, but all Ford can hope for is that they sort it out by Bathurst. It’s disappointing that they still haven’t got it right.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Success ballast would fix all these issues.

 

[Spacegoat]

I'm fine with different drivers winning too, hence me congratulating Frosty and Charlie (I should add my congratulations to Jack and Matt Stone as well), in fact probably like all of us here, it's something I crave more of as it's something Gen 3 was supposed to achieve... just not so one sided on the brand front.

Yeah. extremely happy with both results yesterday. Cool to see smaller teams get up but having said that my interest in the series this year is very low (And I'm a GM guy at heart lol). Just want to see good competitive racing, where more than a handful of teams have a chance of winning and as it stands, they are a long way away from that.

 

[lilcat89]

I'm fine with different drivers winning too, hence me congratulating Frosty and Charlie (I should add my congratulations to Jack and Matt Stone as well), in fact probably like all of us here, it's something I crave more of as it's something Gen 3 was supposed to achieve... just not so one sided on the brand front.

As am I. The different winners is great for the competitiveness, but I cant help but think that the Camaro teams are better prepared for the Gen3 cars than the Mustangs. The Fords seem to have all the early teething problems and it doesnt seem to be getting better. There was a glimmer of hope Saturday with Waters and Davison up there, but for the second race, the top ten was all Camaros. Doesnt help either that there are more Camaros than Mustangs either. I hope they get their act together soon!

 

[FPV MIC]

As am I. The different winners is great for the competitiveness, but I cant help but think that the Camaro teams are better prepared for the Gen3 cars than the Mustangs.

I don't think the Camaro teams are better prepared, especially considering four of the top five teams last year are Ford teams and are also some of the best funded in the paddock. While I love there being first time winning teams I feel it highlights that there's an issue.

The Fords seem to have all the early teething problems and it doesnt seem to be getting better.

Some of the early teething problems are directly related to the car not being designed to cope with the wider/larger Coyote engine. Why T8 didn't account for this in the beginning is beyond comprehension. I'm not sure who designed the latest failing part though.

There was a glimmer of hope Saturday with Waters and Davison up there, but for the second race, the top ten was all Camaros.

I didn't hold much hope for Waters because of the way Frosty was all over him. Pretty sure Cam's tyres would've been used up far too early. Davison was visibly dropping off at the end which reinforces my thoughts.

Doesnt help either that there are more Camaros than Mustangs either.

Quality over quantity has always been one of Fords strong points, just not this season for some odd reason. One of my theories is the aero isn't balanced properly between the two makes in yaw.

I hope they get their act together soon!

Supercars or Ford? If Supercars don't then Ford seemingly can't imho.

They've (Supercars) had so long to try to fix this but instead they just keep band-aiding the issues to the point that everyone I know, Ford and GM supporters alike are losing interest. All of the things that should be done (transient dyno, torque sensors and proper wind tunnel testing) were called for last year.

Supercars has absolutely no hope of enticing other brands while they stick with their current antiquated parity testing regime.

 

[FPV MIC]

Good to see Supercars is listening to the fans... not!

So now they want less cars on the grid 👎 so going overseas (👎👎) is more cost effective.

https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/bombshell-supercars-hunting-to-buy-out-a-team/

Disclaimer: I don't count New Zealand in my thumbs down as, being a stand alone event and with such close ties between our two countries, I don't see it as an overseas round in the same vein as going to the Singapore F1 event in a support role.

Just another thought on last weekends occurrences, why in the **** are they testing things on race weekends? SVG shouldn't have lost nearly one full session doing a failed test for Supercars when it could easily be done with the test mules away from race weekends (that's if they haven't sold off the test mules yet, which while they're still actively testing should be actively earning their keep. I know they were offered for sale but it was at an ridiculous asking price).

The concept of what Supercars is trying to achieve is a great idea but come on, in a series with so little testing time and practice and qualifying time slots generally decreasing it's inexcusable to hamper a team in that manner. Same goes for engine map recalibrations.

 

[Twisteddrift]

Good to see Supercars is listening to the fans... not!

So now they want less cars on the grid 👎 so going overseas (👎👎) is more cost effective.

https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/bombshell-supercars-hunting-to-buy-out-a-team/

Disclaimer: I don't count New Zealand in my thumbs down as, being a stand alone event and with such close ties between our two countries, I don't see it as an overseas round in the same vein as going to the Singapore F1 event in a support role.

Just another thought on last weekends occurrences, why in the **** are they testing things on race weekends? SVG shouldn't have lost nearly one full session doing a failed test for Supercars when it could easily be done with the test mules away from race weekends (that's if they haven't sold off the test mules yet, which while they're still actively testing should be actively earning their keep. I know they were offered for sale but it was at an ridiculous asking price).

The concept of what Supercars is trying to achieve is a great idea but come on, in a series with so little testing time and practice and qualifying time slots generally decreasing it's inexcusable to hamper a team in that manner. Same goes for engine map recalibrations.

Yeah when I read this article. I just laughed, because it clearly shows that Supercars aren’t listening to the fans Number 1.

Number 2, they aren’t listening to the teams who have an idea that doing these international events don’t work for us. No one makes the effort or have the expenses as fans to fly to wherever they go to.

It’s really disappointing to see Supercars make it clear that they don’t care about us the fans.

 

[Spacegoat]

So now they want less cars on the grid 👎 so going overseas (👎👎) is more cost effective.

Seems like they are deadset on having this series become an F1 support category. They have completely lost the plot.

 

[05XR8]

Seems like they are deadset on having this series become an F1 support category. They have completely lost the plot.

I’m getting old, but I swear I made a reference to something like that a while ago. It ain’t funny, but wow, so true.

 

[Twisteddrift]

Waters in play for 2024

Cam Waters is now the centrepiece of the Supercars silly season. Picture: InSyde Media Ford superstar Cam Waters is fielding

www.speedcafe.com

If T8 want to sign him, and saying it’s an insurance policy if Shane leaves. Gives me a sense of where the team is at. Next weekend he makes his debut in NASCAR. But by what’s been going on this year, it wouldn’t surprise me if he leaves like how Scotty did. I hope not, but I say it’s more likely than what some are saying.

 

[FPV MIC]

Waters in play for 2024

Cam Waters is now the centrepiece of the Supercars silly season. Picture: InSyde Media Ford superstar Cam Waters is fielding

www.speedcafe.com

If T8 want to sign him, and saying it’s an insurance policy if Shane leaves. Gives me a sense of where the team is at. Next weekend he makes his debut in NASCAR. But by what’s been going on this year, it wouldn’t surprise me if he leaves like how Scotty did. I hope not, but I say it’s more likely than what some are saying.

Personally I'd like to see him (Edit: SVG) go over to NASCAR as I think it would suit him well with the amount of racing they do, and he's certainly got the talent for it. I'm just not sure how keen he'd be on the ovals. It's a bit selfish of me though, I just want someone from Australasia to follow in that series to keep me interested. I guess it's because I'm spoiled for talent in IndyCar.

I'd also like to see other top drivers have a crack elsewhere too. Cam and Brodie seem to be the two most likely other candidates.

 

[05XR8]

Someone posted in the comments Waters should have a try at the Ford GT3 program. I wouldn't disagree with that suggestion. Especially, when Le Mans is on the cards.

 

[Spacegoat]

If T8 want to sign him, and saying it’s an insurance policy if Shane leaves. Gives me a sense of where the team is at. Next weekend he makes his debut in NASCAR. But by what’s been going on this year, it wouldn’t surprise me if he leaves like how Scotty did. I hope not, but I say it’s more likely than what some are saying.

Seems like whatever happens, Percat's return with Walkinshaw is going to be short lived. Disappointing because I still rate Nick but it's not overly surprising for obvious reasons. Mostert and Waters being teammates again would be spicy. I'd really like for Ryan Wood to get that seat tho. He looks like a genuine talent.

 

[FPV MIC]

Seems like whatever happens, Percat's return with Walkinshaw is going to be short lived. Disappointing because I still rate Nick but not overly surprising for obvious reasons. Mostert and Waters being teammates again would be spicy. I'd really like for Ryan Wood to get that seat tho. He looks like a genuine talent.

Nick is also a really nice guy. I spoke with with him for a bit while we were both waiting for coffees at The Bend back when it was the official preseason test day.

 

[Spacegoat]

Well, guess we'll what comes out of this and whether any changes make any kind of difference or not for the remainder of the season.

Supercars, homologation teams in crucial parity talks

Supercars and homologation teams are meeting this week over the Gen3 parity issue. Picture: InSyde Media Supercars’ motorsport department and

www.speedcafe.com

 

[FPV MIC]

Well, guess we'll what comes out of this and whether any changes make any kind of difference or not for the remainder of the season.

Supercars, homologation teams in crucial parity talks

Supercars and homologation teams are meeting this week over the Gen3 parity issue. Picture: InSyde Media Supercars’ motorsport department and

www.speedcafe.com

Supercars version of white noise

 

[Northstar]

SVG did alright in Chicago.

 

[NotThePrez]

Sooooooo, what's the best way to watch Supers in the US? SVGs NASCAR win today reminded me that I need to better attempt actually watching this series.

 

[Northstar]

Sooooooo, what's the best way to watch Supers in the US? SVGs NASCAR win today reminded me that I need to better attempt actually watching this series.

Their YouTube channel streams everything via the membership option, just make sure you select the right one as the lower tier only includes replays of the '21 season.

https://www.youtube.com/@SupercarsChampionship

 

[Com Fox]

SVG did alright in Chicago.

Be interesting to see what he does after. The only sceptical element of the option of him choosing NASCAR is how he'll handle Ovals. Remember Marcos Ambrose?

Like Ambrose and Scott McLaughlin (though he's doing Indycar instead), Shane will be missed if he goes to the States but would leave a bit of a Power Vacuum of Supercars which would be interesting to see unfold

 

[Northstar]

Be interesting to see what he does after. The only sceptical element of the option of him choosing NASCAR is how he'll handle Ovals. Remember Marcos Ambrose?

Shane has had some success in sprint cars so that should make things a little easier on the oval front if he does decide to make the jump (which based on his post-race interview, he does).

 

[FPV MIC]

Shane has had some success in sprint cars so that should make things a little easier on the oval front if he does decide to make the jump (which based on his post-race interview, he does).

SVG's sprint car stuff is very limited and, meaning no disrespect to the NZ speedway scene, only against fairly low level opponents so I don't think it'll help much, but he has shown himself to very adaptable and very quick to pick up every discipline he sets about having a good crack at.

 

[Com Fox]

Kinda funny seeing the comments of Peter Adderton page about how NASCAR is everything.

While it is a potential good move for Shane himself, from a fans perspectice, they seem to forget the giant game of Mario Party NASCAR actually is if you look at it for more than 1 race.

As a fan, Supercars has a lot of problems right now but NASCAR gets even more unappealing and can only watch it for one off races like this one and I feel Gen 3 has been able to produce great racing and a close championship without feeling forced. It just needs to fix this parity debacle, stop believing this nonsense that "harder to drive = better racing" and just make cars that are good for racing and stop this overseas crusade.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Welcome newcomers from the NASCAR thread. Hope you like talking about parity.

 

[lilcat89]

Honestly, and I’ve thought this from the beginning, if SVG was going to succeed at any race, it would be this one. It was the most level the NASCAR playing field would ever be. Inaugural race, first ever street circuit, changeable weather. The stars just aligned for him to stand out. I’m not his biggest fan in supercars, but his ability to adapt to just about any discipline is unreal.

 

[FPV MIC]

Sooooooo, what's the best way to watch Supers in the US? SVGs NASCAR win today reminded me that I need to better attempt actually watching this series.

If you're not concerned with watching it live (or in ultra high definition) try burningwhee1s.blogspot.com

It's how I watch IndyCar

 

[Spacegoat]

Knowing next to nothing about anything technical. These changes seem, pretty substantial? Hopefully it does make things more even between the two cars. Even if it's too late for Ford teams in the championship, at least it'll make the rest of the season more interesting.

 

[FPV MIC]

Knowing next to nothing about anything technical. These changes seem, pretty substantial? Hopefully it does make things more even between the two cars. Even if it's too late for Ford teams in the championship, at least it'll make the rest of the season more interesting.

Yeah, I don't understand it at all either.

Speedcafe has a good list of the changes.

''it is believed that a three-millimetre gurney will be added to the back edge of the rear wing on the Mustang, and maximum wing angle will be reduced to five degrees, down from nine degrees.

Furthermore, the wing itself, which is common between the Camaro and Mustang (save for the new gurney), will move down 25mm and forward 25mm on the latter.''

The wing angle seems to be a bit suss to me, and it already had a lower wing that was closer to the body ... and then add a gurney flap 👎. That's where the troubles got amplified with the last gen car.

Regarding the wing angle, they could vary the wing from 2-9 degrees before (Camaro is 3-10), which I would think would have a reasonable amount of adjustment, but having 5 degrees max doesn't leave much room to adjust down from... unless they're going to work in half degrees on the Mustang.¯\(ツ)/¯