2023 Repco Supercars ChampionshipTouring Cars

[05XR8]

They (and several GM teams) were actually for the changes, it was Whincup that was against them (even though he agreed that the data said there was disparity). He even threatened legal action... over an (apparently) non-binding system that, as far as I can gather, is supposed to be more of a guide than a rule. It's certainly not in the Supercars Operational Manual.

Supercars and Ford need better lawyers... and to grow some stones and stop being bullied by Triple 8.

Definitely. It’s been going on for years that (V8)SC have aloud one team to sway their decisions. Yes, sounds like Ferrari and the FIA, but SC been needing to grow some for a long time, as you say.

I’m really not trying to be funny here, but Burgess leaving the empire(T8) to seem like he’s helping the rebels(non-T8 teams) and eventually making the decisions, is like electing Palpatine to govern the republic.

 

[ScottPuss20]

They (and several GM teams) were actually for the changes, it was Whincup that was against them (even though he agreed that the data said there was disparity). He even threatened legal action... over an (apparently) non-binding system that, as far as I can gather, is supposed to be more of a guide than a rule. It's certainly not in the Supercars Operational Manual.

Supercars and Ford need better lawyers... and to grow some stones and stop being bullied by Triple 8.

"Jamie Whincup - ruining Supercars for 15 years"

Just when I thought he'd given up on being a selfish dick, he does this. I will never like the guy, no matter how many championships he's won. We must do what's right for the sport, or we won't have one. Where's the leadership? Why can't some just step in and say, "this is what you're going to get, deal with it or bugger off"? This constant lobbying will be the death of Supercars. It's disgusting to see such disunity when the formula is under increasing threat from GT3 and NASCAR, which has seen a huge amount of international attention in recent times. We need to come together for the greater good, which Triple 8 and Supercars have clearly never done. Throw Jamie in the pond and let him sit in his own crap; only then will he realise how much it stinks. No wait, he won't actually, he'll just say it was Craig Lowndes and hire a bunch of lawyers to "prove" it. Give me a break.

 

[FPV MIC]

"Jamie Whincup - ruining Supercars for 15 years"

Spoiler: I dunno, he's given me some pretty memorable moments as a driver.

And this video can probably be extended this year. I heard Tim Edwards say on a podcast after the race that he'd offered JW the new Tickford designed gearshift tower but he declined it. Tim said ''perhaps it was a bit of karma''.

They're lucky SVG & Stanaway made it too because theirs was cracked as well.

Just when I thought he'd given up on being a selfish dick, he does this. I will never like the guy, no matter how many championships he's won. We must do what's right for the sport, or we won't have one. Where's the leadership? Why can't some just step in and say, "this is what you're going to get, deal with it or bugger off"? This constant lobbying will be the death of Supercars. It's disgusting to see such disunity when the formula is under increasing threat from GT3 and NASCAR, which has seen a huge amount of international attention in recent times. We need to come together for the greater good, which Triple 8 and Supercars have clearly never done. Throw Jamie in the pond and let him sit in his own crap; only then will he realise how much it stinks. No wait, he won't actually, he'll just say it was Craig Lowndes and hire a bunch of lawyers to "prove" it. Give me a break.

Don't hold back mate, tell us what you really think

 

[Com Fox]

How much would pissing off one legend for not getting his way really do in the long term Supercars?

Reminds me of F1 forcing an engine development freeze because Red Bull threatened to quit if that wasn't going to happen because they refused to play ball with the other Engine suppliers.

Wish organisers say "That sounds like a you problem" to these one-of completely self serving protests and do it anyway

Ironic that T8 is sponsored by Red Bull...

 

[05XR8]

Please don’t.

Plans for 10-day Bathurst ‘festival’ to open 2024 Supercars season

A 'festival of motorsport' could be the answer to the Newcastle 500 deadlock while protecting the Bathurst 12 Hour. Image:

www.speedcafe.com

Just have frequent races at SMP and The Bend, on their different layouts. Have a few rounds in New Zealand at Highlands, Taupo and Hampton Downs or Ruapuna. I don’t know if Lakeside have enough pit boxes, but utilise some of these tracks and have more race weekends.

 

[Com Fox]

Please don’t.

Plans for 10-day Bathurst ‘festival’ to open 2024 Supercars season

A 'festival of motorsport' could be the answer to the Newcastle 500 deadlock while protecting the Bathurst 12 Hour. Image:

www.speedcafe.com

Just have frequent races at SMP and The Bend, on their different layouts. Have a few rounds in New Zealand at Highlands, Taupo and Hampton Downs or Ruapuna. I don’t know if Lakeside have enough pit boxes, but utilise some of these tracks and have more race weekends.

Frequent races at the same venue gonna get repetitive fast. Pandemic Supercars constantly at SMP was quite forgettable. Especially when there are tracks missing like Winton, Phillip Island and Ipswich (though Ipswich I know is not on Supercars as Ipswich refused to repave the track to be suitable)

I don't get this demand for more race weekends as if we need to be F1 (which has a problem of way too much). I think a slight increase to 13 or 14 is fine. 15 or 16 would be pushing it. We already have more race weekends than BTCC, DTM and Super GT

 

[05XR8]

Frequent races at the same venue gonna get repetitive fast. Pandemic Supercars constantly at SMP was quite forgettable. Especially when there are tracks missing like Winton, Phillip Island and Ipswich (though Ipswich I know is not on Supercars as Ipswich refused to repave the track to be suitable)

I don't get this demand for more race weekends as if we need to be F1 (which has a problem of way too much). I think a slight increase to 13 or 14 is fine. 15 or 16 would be pushing it. We already have more race weekends than BTCC, DTM and Super GT

Well, complaints from Giz were that there weren’t enough races. Yes, have the races at Winton, PI and Ipswich. However, if they want to do races overseas, make that a long month at New Zealand with two to three circuits. Utilise extra layouts.

As for other series, I enjoy my GT4 and Super Taikyu calendars. Those both don’t have many races, but the races are exciting. Plus, Super GT and Super Taikyu make multiple visits to Fuji Speedway.
I don’t mind Bathurst as an opener, just not in the way it’s being suggested.

 

[05XR8]

Can’t recall hearing about this.

 

[lilcat89]

Can’t recall hearing about this.

I wonder if it will be available outside of Aus/NZ? It looks pretty good though.

 

[Spacegoat]

@ScottPuss20

Triple Eight announces Pye as Bathurst 1000 co-driver

Triple Eight has Scott Pye as a co-driver from the 2024 Sandown 500 and Bathurst 1000 on a two-year contract.

www.speedcafe.com

Fair to say that he'll be co-driving with Brown. Hard to see the Feeney/Whincup combo being broken up, if SVG isn't available. Which I don't think he is (for next year at least).

 

[05XR8]

@ScottPuss20

Triple Eight announces Pye as Bathurst 1000 co-driver

Triple Eight has Scott Pye as a co-driver from the 2024 Sandown 500 and Bathurst 1000 on a two-year contract.

www.speedcafe.com

Fair to say that he'll be co-driving with Brown. Hard to see the Feeney/Whincup combo being broken up, if SVG isn't available. Which I don't think he is (for next year at least).

Just like McLaughlin, I feel Giz is done.

 

[Spacegoat]

Just like McLaughlin, I feel Giz is done.

Yeah, maybe. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

 

[Twisteddrift]

Yeah, maybe. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

Sad really. The sport misses Scotty, it was vivid with how Shane dominated. I doubted it would’ve been like that if he stayed. And I’ll say it’ll be the same when Shane leaves at the end of the year.

 

[05XR8]

Supercars 2024 Newcastle 500 cancelled

The Supercars Newcastle 500 has been cancelled for 2024, city mayor Nuatali Nelmes has confirmed.

www.speedcafe.com

Oh well. Movin’ on…

 

[Com Fox]

Personally disappointed as Newcastle was the best way for me to attend the races as it was just an hour train ride. The next bet is Sydney Motorsport Park which travelling there is far less ideal of driving with toll gates...

Hopefully at some point we get that Circuit Italia in.

 

[05XR8]

We definitely need a close permanent circuit.
The easiest part about Circuit Italia is getting there. The hardest part will be leaving. There’s an actual T-intersection at the Italia Road exit. Boral dirt trucks entering and exiting the quarry(neighbouring the circuit) and race fans leaving the circuit, trying to turn right(to head back to Newcastle) to enter the freeway with cars either side doing 100kph(it actually slows to that speed from 110kph), would be a mess.
Probably have to detour traffic through the exits before Italia Road.

 

[FPV MIC]

I just finished listening to the latest AA podcast and they made a lot of sense in regards to the parity issues at Bathurst.

This is my takeaway on that particular subject: Supercars is a technical parity based sport, but it uses a sporting parity measure (lap times) to trigger the review of technical parity. Shouldn't technical data (ie. CFD) trump sporting parity measures every single time?

Wasn't JW the one who rabbited on about Supercars not being a sporting parity category and that technical data was what should be used (while Supercars was conveniently keeping all the technical data secret)? I'm pretty sure I recall that correctly. But if it benefits his team he'll jump straight on the sporting parity side of the fence and totally disregard all technical evidence as the (sporting) parity ''trigger'' hasn't been met.

This wind tunnel/transient dyno/torque sensors testing can't come soon enough. And FFS Supercars, be transparent. I don't think this sport can take another year of being run this poorly.

 

[Com Fox]

I just finished listening to the latest AA podcast and they made a lot of sense in regards to the parity issues at Bathurst.

This is my takeaway on that particular subject: Supercars is a technical parity based sport, but it uses a sporting parity measure (lap times) to trigger the review of technical parity. Shouldn't technical data (ie. CFD) trump sporting parity measures every single time?

Wasn't JW the one who rabbited on about Supercars not being a sporting parity category and that technical data was what should be used (while Supercars was conveniently keeping all the technical data secret)? I'm pretty sure I recall that correctly. But if it benefits his team he'll jump straight on the sporting parity side of the fence and totally disregard all technical evidence as the (sporting) parity ''trigger'' hasn't been met.

This wind tunnel/transient dyno/torque sensors testing can't come soon enough. And FFS Supercars, be transparent. I don't think this sport can take another year of being run this poorly.

I think Whincup was referring to a BoP series like GT3 and Hypercar not "Parity".

 

[FPV MIC]

I think Whincup was referring to a BoP series like GT3 and Hypercar not "Parity".

Yes he did use that reference several times (as in ''We're a parity series, not BoP'') but I probably should've been clearer. What I was referring to was his claims that race wins (sporting parity) shouldn't be used as a measure of parity and that only technical data should be. Yet he was willing to rely on a system based on sporting parity and not on the technical data which was available... which apparently the Ford teams, Supercars and GM all agreed showed disparity.

How does this 'trigger' system even exist when it's not in the Operations Manual?

From here.

Edit: Found it. It was during his 'white noise' period. Regarding the first highlighted bit, so are lap times... and the whole parity trigger system is flawed! Regarding the second... no you won't Jamie, not if it's not to your advantage.

“What we can do is work on numbers and facts, not opinions and whatnot, and we’re strictly not a BoP category, so we don’t make adjustments because of the results on track.

“Anyone that wants to debate the parity thing one way or the other via on-track results, it’s completely flawed, because that’s not what we’re about.

“So, put the cars on the dynos, do roll-centre testing, do aero testing, do all of the things that Supercars have already done, and get the numbers, and if the numbers aren’t right, then we’ll adjust.

Whincup cautions against parity changes based on ‘white noise’

Parity has been a hot topic in Supercars since the Gen3 era began. Picture: InSyde Media Triple Eight Team Principal

www.speedcafe.com

 

[ScottPuss20]

@ScottPuss20

Triple Eight announces Pye as Bathurst 1000 co-driver

Triple Eight has Scott Pye as a co-driver from the 2024 Sandown 500 and Bathurst 1000 on a two-year contract.

www.speedcafe.com

Fair to say that he'll be co-driving with Brown. Hard to see the Feeney/Whincup combo being broken up, if SVG isn't available. Which I don't think he is (for next year at least).

I'd rather he raced with Feeney instead of Brown.

Yes he did use that reference several times (as in ''We're a parity series, not BoP'') but I probably should've been clearer. What I was referring to was his claims that race wins (sporting parity) shouldn't be used as a measure of parity and that only technical data should be. Yet he was willing to rely on a system based on sporting parity and not on the technical data which was available... which apparently the Ford teams, Supercars and GM all agreed showed disparity.

How does this 'trigger' system even exist when it's not in the Operations Manual?
View attachment 1296644

From here.

Edit: Found it. It was during his 'white noise' period. Regarding the first highlighted bit, so are lap times... and the whole parity trigger system is flawed! Regarding the second... no you won't Jamie, not if it's not to your advantage.

“What we can do is work on numbers and facts, not opinions and whatnot, and we’re strictly not a BoP category, so we don’t make adjustments because of the results on track.

“Anyone that wants to debate the parity thing one way or the other via on-track results, it’s completely flawed, because that’s not what we’re about.

“So, put the cars on the dynos, do roll-centre testing, do aero testing, do all of the things that Supercars have already done, and get the numbers, and if the numbers aren’t right, then we’ll adjust.

Whincup cautions against parity changes based on ‘white noise’

Parity has been a hot topic in Supercars since the Gen3 era began. Picture: InSyde Media Triple Eight Team Principal

www.speedcafe.com

So not only is Jamie an idiot, he's a hypocrite! He'll never be redeemed in my eyes because he's selfish and by no means a man of the people. He should just shut up and fade into obscurity because I'm sick of this nonsense and politicking. The fans want a good show, and anyone who stands in the way of that should bugger off.

 

[FPV MIC]

he's a hypocrite!

Yes, he is.

On another note, @Com Fox, no one other than JW and RD ever suggested it was a BoP category, not even close to that. It was the old 'look over there' trick (that failed miserably).

 

[Spacegoat]

Supercars details US wind tunnel test plan

The Windshear wind tunnel in North Carolina. Image: Supplied Supercars has detailed its plan to send a Ford Mustang and

www.speedcafe.com

Should have started doing this years ago, or before this season started at the very least. Might have saved them a few headaches.

 

[05XR8]

I guess Burgess will fill those to roles…. for consistency sake.

 

[Com Fox]

Supercars details US wind tunnel test plan

The Windshear wind tunnel in North Carolina. Image: Supplied Supercars has detailed its plan to send a Ford Mustang and

www.speedcafe.com

Should have started doing this years ago, or before this season started at the very least. Might have saved them a few headaches.

Now all we need to do is keep Whincup in the dark about the results so he doesn't claim its too much and we already have parity

 

[IforceV8]

Isnt this the same bunch that forbid Penske from sending a DJR-Penske car to the US for the same thing?

 

[05XR8]

Isnt this the same bunch that forbid Penske from sending a DJR-Penske car to the US for the same thing?

Exactly. If I remember correctly, that was stopped due to protecting Supercars IP. Just holding back progress…

 

[FPV MIC]

Isnt this the same bunch that forbid Penske from sending a DJR-Penske car to the US for the same thing?

Exactly. If I remember correctly, that was stopped due to protecting Supercars IP. Just holding back progress…

Penske were going to use the wind tunnel for development of the Gen 2 Mustang not for assessing parity, and wind tunnel testing is illegal for that purpose due to trying to keep costs down. Two totally different circumstances really.

What Supercars should've done is had totally independent companies (like MARC Cars Australia) tender for the complete build of both makes of the prototype cars using all the tools that they're now trying to incorporate into the parity testing.

 

[Twisteddrift]

Mostert wants Gold Coast enduro return

Chaz Mostert has called on Supercars to reinstate the Gold Coast 500 as a two-driver endurance event.

www.speedcafe.com

To change the parity subject for a sec. If they want the enduro to return, they need a solo driver round between GC and Adelaide. To give more emphasis on the championship if it’s still on. Like go to Phillip Island or somewhere like that in early November.

 

[Twisteddrift]

Ford claims disadvantage will continue despite new aero

Ford claims its Supercars teams will still be at a disadvantage relative to their Chevrolet rivals despite parity changes ahead of this weekend’s Boost Mobile Gold Coast 500.

www.speedcafe.com

Oh for god sake.

 

[05XR8]

Roland’s View: Is GT3 the future for Supercars?

Should Supercars move to GT3 regulations? Roland Dane outlines why some should be careful what they wish for. Image: InSyde

www.speedcafe.com