550PP Ferrari F40 Super Lap: Apricot Hill Raceway

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In stock form, on Comfort Soft tires without oil change, the F40 is capable of sub 1:18 laps at Mid-Field.

That's F430 territory. 14 years before the F430.
 
SuzukaStar
In stock form, on Comfort Soft tires without oil change, the F40 is capable of sub 1:18 laps at Mid-Field.

That's F430 territory. 14 years before the F430.
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Nice, but that's pretty much irrelevant at Apricot Hill :) Stock F40 is "not" F40, it's only a car that has F40 body with most of the stats and specs/setup wrong. At least the engine is fine :lol:
 
Stotty
Today, I tied the car without rear toe and for me, the car became easier to drive (results may not be the same for everyone ;)). You have to be VERY smooth with the steering/throttle/brakes (particularly your 1st application of any of those), but keeping the car in a slight drift in the longer corners is relatively easy and using the throttle to balance the weight shifts feels lovely :D
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Yeah, I downloaded your racing line from the leaderboard a few days ago, trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. I was amused, looking in the data logger, to not only find your line different from mine on quite a few turns, but also your steering inputs to literally be the opposite of mine in some instances. I assumed that was you countersteering, something I'm completely inept at.

That was the big thing that jumped out at me. Everything else that contributed to the massive difference in my laptime compared to yours was just a gradual accumulation of my suckage. :)
 
Stotty
Can't get back on the PS3 as my darling wife has irritatingly decided to fall asleep on the couch :grumpy:

I had used +0.20 rear toe in my 1st session an attempt to make the car more stable on turn in, but as I mentioned in my previous post, the more I tried to tie the rear down the more understeer I got and the more lock I subsequently need to make the apex... and the extra lock made the transitions difficult.

Today, I tied the car without rear toe and for me, the car became easier to drive (results may not be the same for everyone ;)). You have to be VERY smooth with the steering/throttle/brakes (particularly your 1st application of any of those), but keeping the car in a slight drift in the longer corners is relatively easy and using the throttle to balance the weight shifts feels lovely :D


Here's what I'm using now... no idea how it will work with a DS3, and it's built using AS strong!

Ferrari F40 '92
New car from dealers, no oil change, chassis strengthening fitted (don't think it makes much difference)
Stage 3 weight reduction
High RPM Turbo
All other non-power parts

Should be 494bhp, 1,122kg and 550ppts

Ride 85 85
Springs 7.79 14.20
Bound 10 1
Rebound 1 10
ARB 7 7
Camber 0 0
Toe 0 0

Brakes 7 1

LSD 5 10 40

Gears
Max speed 193mph
1st 3.492
2nd 2.312
3rd 1.776
4th 1.437
5th 1.195

Next plan will be to gradually wind back the LSD decel as I get more used to the balance.

Hope it helps, but don't blame me if you fly in to the sand in turn 1... there's no magic fix for the F40 :D
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Tried your tune. At the beginning I was making the same times as with mine, it seemed faster on the long corners but a bit slower on the trickier sections. But after some miles I got used to the feeling and it's really good! Finally into the 1:24 club. I am really really happy right now. Thanks mate for sharing it so kindly! 👍:cheers:
 
IBZ6L20VT
Tried your tune. At the beginning I was making the same times as with mine, it seemed faster on the long corners but a bit slower on the trickier sections. But after some miles I got used to the feeling and it's really good! Finally into the 1:24 club. I am really really happy right now. Thanks mate for sharing it so kindly! 👍:cheers:
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No probs, amigo 👍

Congrats on your time :cheers:
 
UltimateLurker
I spoke with a friend over the weekend that has actually driven an F40 on a track. He hasn't played Gran Turismo since GT3 and was utterly blown away by the graphics and feel of the game. We spent a few hours playing and the subject of the F40 seasonal came up. I had no idea he had driven one, and it was great to hear about it. He drove the press car that made the rounds back when it came out, the one that was on the front of all the magazines. He said the tires were **** when he drove it, and that the car was an absolute beast, but the one on the game was horrible beyond reason. He couldn't even complete a lap lol. I let him drive my tune and he said it was much better, but nothing like the real car. This got me thinking. If it's not going to be like the real car, why even bother? But the game simply can't simulate the real car, and if you're using a DS3, even if it could you probably wouldn't notice. He also said that the 959 was MUCH better to drive, and would have picked that car over the F40 in a heartbeat. Yes, it was a good weekend.
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That's a great anecdote! 👍 Did your friend happen to mention ANY cars that feel like the real thing? I've always had a BIG issue with GT6. Frankly, I don't believe that 90% or more of the street cars that we purchase from the Dealership are setup to resemble the real life car we are purchasing. If you take a Corvette C7, for example, it might get the ride height accurate, but I find it impossible to believe that damper compression & extension would be set to "softest possible" because then you have no way of softening the dampers, you can only make them firmer/stronger in your adjustment from "stock".

Then we have the anti-roll bar settings. Again, if a stock C7 Vette really came with the setting that GT6 gives you (1/1), in real life, there would only be the ability to make the ARB stiffer and not weaker/less stiff. Now we move on to camber and regardless of how you view GT6's poor implementation of camber, are you telling me that 90% of road cars come with -0.5 degrees of front camber and -1.5 degrees of camber in the rear? Because GT6 seems to think so. Finally, we move on to toe angle were GT6 leads us to believe that our beloved C7 Corvette, along with the majority of road cars has 0.0 degrees in the front and +0.60 degrees in the rear. Obviously, this can NOT be accurate as to how the real life car is setup.

GT6 often gets the vehicle weight right, but it also incorrectly states stock vehicle weight a lot, sometimes by many, many kilograms. That Aventador that we all love throwing around the Nurburgring? Well, GT6's listed weight is actually 146kg (321.87 pounds) too light if you believe Car & Driver or 157kg (346.13 pounds) too light if you believe Motor Trend. Either way, the real car is MUCH heavier than the car they give us as completely stock from the dealership.

Fortunately, GT6 usually seems to get the transmission gear ratios correct, although there are some exceptions here as well. The area they seem to usually be spot on, as far as street cars go, is with the horsepower and torque. Again, there are even exceptions for those figures on some cars. Lastly, most cars seem to come with a generic LSD setting and most people would agree that the stock tires applied to street cars in GT6 are way too grippy, ie. track-only quality tires installed on a luxury sedan.

Personally, that is why the majority of my cars have been "tuned" with @Ridox2JZGTE tunes from the Ridox Replica Garage. His replica tunes are not meant to be the fastest tunes published on GT6. He strives to give the most realistic interpretation of our available cars in GT6 based on adjusting all the incorrect base settings to their proper settings; matching real world weight, power & torque, suspension, transmission, drivetrain and aero settings to the respective cars. Now, whether they drive anything like the real world version of the car is up to GT6's physics. I put the word tuned in quotation marks because I don't believe he's really tuning the car as much as he's just trying to setup the car the way it should have been setup in the first place. To me, "tuning" is when you start putting racing brakes on your sports car with weight reduction, a new exhaust and adjusting the suspension from the REAL stock settings.

I know I went on quite the ramble here, but I think it is very important to make it clear that it shouldn't be a surprise that your friend said the Ferrari F40 in this game doesn't drive like the real world F40. It's not setup like the real F40 is at all! At least, that is my opinion on things... :lol:

EDIT: I should add that Ridox Replica Garage also has some "bonus tunes" where he isn't necessarily setting up cars to match their real world stock settings, but rather providing the more traditional sense of what we call tuning in GT6.

Also, I know there are other replica builders here on GTPlanet, but I am most familiar with Ridox Replica Garage, so I used his garage as my example. Plus, I really, really love driving his car builds! :D :lol: :D :lol:
 
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ALB123
I know I went on quite the ramble here, but I think it is very important to make it clear that it shouldn't be a surprise that your friend said the Ferrari F40 in this game doesn't drive like the real world F40. It's not setup like the real F40 is at all! At least, that is my opinion on things... :lol:
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Oh I agree, I was just saying that in his opinion the car was much easier to drive in real life with dead tires than it is on GT6. It's a very peaky car thanks to turbo lag he said, so if you short shifted it, you could really keep yourself out of danger and easily drive the car without issue.
 
ALB123
That's a great anecdote! 👍 Did your friend happen to mention ANY cars that feel like the real thing? I've always had a BIG issue with GT6. Frankly, I don't believe that 90% or more of the street cars that we purchase from the Dealership are setup to resemble the real life car we are purchasing. If you take a Corvette C7, for example, it might get the ride height accurate, but I find it impossible to believe that damper compression & extension would be set to "softest possible" because then you have no way of softening the dampers, you can only make them firmer/stronger in your adjustment from "stock".

Then we have the anti-roll bar settings. Again, if a stock C7 Vette really came with the setting that GT6 gives you (1/1), in real life, there would only be the ability to make the ARB stiffer and not weaker/less stiff. Now we move on to camber and regardless of how you view GT6's poor implementation of camber, are you telling me that 90% of road cars come with -0.5 degrees of front camber and -1.5 degrees of camber in the rear? Because GT6 seems to think so. Finally, we move on to toe angle were GT6 leads us to believe that our beloved C7 Corvette, along with the majority of road cars has 0.0 degrees in the front and +0.60 degrees in the rear. Obviously, this can NOT be accurate as to how the real life car is setup.

GT6 often gets the vehicle weight right, but it also incorrectly states stock vehicle weight a lot, sometimes by many, many kilograms. That Aventador that we all love throwing around the Nurburgring? Well, GT6's listed weight is actually 146kg (321.87 pounds) too light if you believe Car & Driver or 157kg (346.13 pounds) too light if you believe Motor Trend. Either way, the real car is MUCH heavier than the car they give us as completely stock from the dealership.

Fortunately, GT6 usually seems to get the transmission gear ratios correct, although there are some exceptions here as well. The area they seem to usually be spot on, as far as street cars go, is with the horsepower and torque. Again, there are even exceptions for those figures on some cars. Lastly, most cars seem to come with a generic LSD setting and most people would agree that the stock tires applied to street cars in GT6 are way too grippy, ie. track-only quality tires installed on a luxury sedan.

Personally, that is why the majority of my cars have been "tuned" with @Ridox2JZGTE tunes from the Ridox Replica Garage. His replica tunes are not meant to be the fastest tunes published on GT6. He strives to give the most realistic interpretation of our available cars in GT6 based on adjusting all the incorrect base settings to their proper settings; matching real world weight, power & torque, suspension, transmission, drivetrain and aero settings to the respective cars. Now, whether they drive anything like the real world version of the car is up to GT6's physics. I put the word tuned in quotation marks because I don't believe he's really tuning the car as much as he's just trying to setup the car the way it should have been setup in the first place. To me, "tuning" is when you start putting racing brakes on your sports car with weight reduction, a new exhaust and adjusting the suspension from the REAL stock settings.

I know I went on quite the ramble here, but I think it is very important to make it clear that it shouldn't be a surprise that your friend said the Ferrari F40 in this game doesn't drive like the real world F40. It's not setup like the real F40 is at all! At least, that is my opinion on things... :lol:

EDIT: I should add that Ridox Replica Garage also has some "bonus tunes" where he isn't necessarily setting up cars to match their real world stock settings, but rather providing the more traditional sense of what we call tuning in GT6.

Also, I know there are other replica builders here on GTPlanet, but I am most familiar with Ridox Replica Garage, so I used his garage as my example. Plus, I really, really love driving his car builds! :D :lol: :D :lol:
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Yeah it`s a bit strange that PD make those weired "stock" settings on toe and camber, the same standard setting for road cars, and another standard setting for race cars. I don`t even think theres one single car in the whole World with zero camber. Or one single car with zero toe. I guess ALL real road cars have toe-in front in fact...

But when You and other people "build" (funny phrase for sliding those sliders) the socalled "replicas" - who on Earth says that the settings work the same way in GT6 (a video game) as they do IRL??? It`s all just imagimation after all...When one slide the spring rate slider, the playstation alters "something" electronically, but will this alteration match what happens when one turn on the adjusting nut on an IRL spring??? We don`t know. But it seems that camber is BUGGED and ride height is BUGGED, and the imaginary "cars" in GT6 as a whole are lightyears from their IRL counter pieces. So when one slide any slider, "spring rate" whatever, it might have an effect that has absolutely nothing in common with the effect this would have IRL. OR some slider sliding could in fact resemble IRL... But don`t count on it... "Replica" or not... Just thinking loud sorry...
 
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light driver
Yeah it`s a bit strange that PD make those weired "stock" settings on toe and camber, the same standard setting for road cars, and another standard setting for race cars. I don`t even think theres one single car in the whole World with zero camber. Or one single car with zero toe. I guess ALL real road cars have toe-in front in fact...

But when You and other people "build" (funny phrase for sliding those sliders) the socalled "replicas" - who on Earth says that the settings work the same way in GT6 (a video game) as they do IRL??? It`s all just imagimation after all...When one slide the spring rate slider, the playstation alters "something" electronically, but will this alteration match what happens when one turn on the adjusting nut on an IRL spring??? We don`t know. But it seems that camber is BUGGED and ride height is BUGGED, and the imaginary "cars" in GT6 as a whole are lightyears from their IRL counter pieces. So when one slide any slider, "spring rate" whatever, it might have an effect that has absolutely nothing in common with the effect this would have IRL. OR some slider sliding could in fact resemble IRL... But don`t count on it... "Replica" or not... Just thinking loud sorry...
Click to expand...
I know exactly what you're saying. That's why I specifically said:

He strives to give the most realistic interpretation of our available cars in GT6 based on adjusting all the incorrect base settings to their proper settings; matching real world weight, power & torque, suspension, transmission, drivetrain and aero settings to the respective cars. Now, whether they drive anything like the real world version of the car is up to GT6's physics.

So you're right. I have absolutely no way of knowing whether or not the physics of GT6 are accurate to the physics of the universe. At that point, it is all up to feel. To me, once I have applied such settings the cars usually feel a lot more like what I've read about in magazines, or have seen in videos. At the very least, they always end up driving a lot nicer, in my opinion, than the stock form that I purchase from the dealership.

As to our use of the word build, I suppose we could get incredibly pedantic and say "What do you mean, you DROVE a lap? All you did was turn a fake steering wheel that's connected to a game system that moves pixels on a screen." Like you said, GT6 is purely imagination, like all video games. When one plays Call of Duty, they aren't shooting anyone either, ya know? Again, I brought up the subject mainly because I don't like how cars are presented to us as purchased from the dealership.
 
light driver
But when You and other people "build" (funny phrase for sliding those sliders) the socalled "replicas" - who on Earth says that the settings work the same way in GT6 (a video game) as they do IRL???
Click to expand...
Indeed. In fact, PD's weird default settings may be the way they are in order to (in their opinion) more closely approximate the real handling characteristics of a real Nissan. Erm, I mean car. ;)

Anyway, point is, more accurate in the numerical values in the settings screen may not, in fact, more closely approximate the handling behavior of the real car.

The tricky thing, though, is that it certainly seems like PD's default setup is not consistently inaccurate across all cars. Their simulation of the Nissan GT-R NISMO may be much more faithful than, say, their simulation of a Mustang. Or, in this case, the F40. But how they go about making a more accurate simulation is another question. Are the numerical values for the settings on those more accurate simulations fudged behind the scenes (e.g., the spring rate says X but behaves as if it were set to Y on another car) or are they more in line with the actual car's real settings?
 
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UltimateLurker
It's a very peaky car thanks to turbo lag he said, so if you short shifted it, you could really keep yourself out of danger and easily drive the car without issue.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I can remember reading reviews of that car where people would describe the experience as terrifying when the turbos spooled up and kicked in. :lol:
 
nebneb1978
Possible cheater the speedo reads 480kph where as everyone else's reads 320kph & there seems to be slightly less wheel spin noise ???
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This guy has made it very smart on making it look hacked, The tyres are not hacked so im guessing remember how if you hacked a car on GT5 you could change the grip levels? Im guessing he done that and then put weight on the car to make it slide but corner vey nicely and more top speed as his short shifting. Where this car you don't need to short shift.
 
light driver
Yeah it`s a bit strange that PD make those weired "stock" settings on toe and camber, the same standard setting for road cars, and another standard setting for race cars. I don`t even think theres one single car in the whole World with zero camber. Or one single car with zero toe. I guess ALL real road cars have toe-in front in fact...

But when You and other people "build" (funny phrase for sliding those sliders) the socalled "replicas" - who on Earth says that the settings work the same way in GT6 (a video game) as they do IRL??? It`s all just imagimation after all...When one slide the spring rate slider, the playstation alters "something" electronically, but will this alteration match what happens when one turn on the adjusting nut on an IRL spring??? We don`t know. But it seems that camber is BUGGED and ride height is BUGGED, and the imaginary "cars" in GT6 as a whole are lightyears from their IRL counter pieces. So when one slide any slider, "spring rate" whatever, it might have an effect that has absolutely nothing in common with the effect this would have IRL. OR some slider sliding could in fact resemble IRL... But don`t count on it... "Replica" or not... Just thinking loud sorry...
Click to expand...

There are quite some cars that have at least one axle with zero camber ( usually at the front ) or even positive camber from factory and zero toe ( most live rear axle have zero toe ) 512BB has front zero camber to positive 0.33 degree camber ( as per manual )

The bold part shows how lacking is your knowledge in cars :) and before you judge on replica, don't set on the process, but the end result, when you drive it. I just happen to care for both, the process ( values/specs/stats and tuning method ) as well as the result/performance/feel. GT6 has it's limits, but I tried my best to use the limits for getting closer to realistic cars, not the other way.
 
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RobertM525
Yeah, I downloaded your racing line from the leaderboard a few days ago, trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. I was amused, looking in the data logger, to not only find your line different from mine on quite a few turns, but also your steering inputs to literally be the opposite of mine in some instances. I assumed that was you countersteering, something I'm completely inept at.
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Counter steering is pretty critical in this car... in the 1st turn, and the long left at the beginning of T2, you only need to ease the car in to the corner with a bit of steering. Once it's turned in (if you get it right!!), the rest of the corner is a slight drift with no steering applied... use the rotation off the throttle to point the car at the apex, then pick up the throttle just enough to re-balance the weight transfer.

Seems counter-intuitive, but when the rear starts to slide off the power you need to apply some throttle to shift the weight back to the rear so the rear tyres regain grip 👍
 
ForrestBean
cheers for the tune @Stotty , you have made this tt fun and not a chore. a 1.27.1xx and hoping for a mid/low 26 at the end. appreciated very much.
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Good luck 👍

For me, the F40 is sooooo rewarding to drive when you get the feel and you put a lap together... feels like you've walked a tightrope over the Grand Canyon, blindfold, without a safety net and survived :D
 
Just regarding the F40 and how it handles vs real life…

I’m sure the F40 handles differently in the game, but I very much doubt the guy who’s driven one has taken it round a track right at and over the limit, trail braking from >160mph in to an ever tightening left hander and sliding it out the other side!

IMO, it’s somewhat irrelevant if the cars in GT6 are set up as they would be in real life – to make this work, the physics engine would need to exactly replicate how the each individual car handles, and there are far too many holes in the engine to ever make this a reality.

Best to ignore the numbers shown in the settings screen as they are pretty much meaningless (they may as well read a, b, c :lol:), and focus more on the effect changing them in one direction or another has on the car’s behavior.
 
Well that came pretty quickly...

30 mins after work; ran a 25.0 3rd lap, then shortly after a 24.843 followed by a 24.795. Made a couple of small setting changes and immediately threw away a mega lap at least 0.3 faster :mad: running wide in the final corner... finally held one together with a rubbish exit from the chicane..

1;24.574 11th :D

Tune as before with LSD decel at 30 and brakes at 7,3... bit dicey in to turn 1, but more rear brake helps trail braking in to the hairpin.

Very close to my ability limit now :lol:
 
Stotty
Well that came pretty quickly...

30 mins after work; ran a 25.0 3rd lap, then shortly after a 24.843 followed by a 24.795. Made a couple of small setting changes and immediately threw away a mega lap at least 0.3 faster :mad: running wide in the final corner... finally held one together with a rubbish exit from the chicane..

1;24.574 11th :D

Tune as before with LSD decel at 30 and brakes at 7,3... bit dicey in to turn 1, but more rear brake helps trail braking in to the hairpin.

Very close to my ability limit now :lol:
Click to expand...

That's an amazing time. Congrats!
 
Thanks 👍

Just for a laugh, I tried the car 100% stock on comfort softs (528ppts)... only 5 or 6 laps... 1'31.345... reckon that will do the gold time. It's absolutely lovely to drive... so slippery :D

Will be going back to that when I have more time.
 

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