6th Gen Chevrolet Camaro: 2017 ZL1, Z/28

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The 5th Gen Camaro is a more attractive car than any 2005-2014 Mustang. Mustang guys will always buy Mustangs, and Camaro guys will always buy Camaros, so really it's the neutral parties that decide the success or failure of a pony car. The cars are so closely matched that the only thing that really separates them is their aesthetic design. The 5th Gen Camaro was a remarkably un-diluted production version of a very well-received concept car. The 5th Gen outsold the Mustang because it looked better.

The problem is that the new Mustang looks better than the new Camaro. I anticipate the Camaro not doing nearly as well in sells compared to the Mustang and 5th Gen.

That explains a bit sure, especially the more boxy bloated versions of the fifth gen Mustang but it was a car that did improve upon its platform and Ford made the car look better and trimmed it up a bit to where it wasn't so bloated and it still lost. This is why I disagree with the notion that since GM came to the party later they were loved more so than the other two, and still loved when the Mustang started using new tricks (looks and power).

If anything Ford made the new sleeker Mustang the way they did to finally outsell GM

EDIT: Though I do agree that the Camaro's "new" looks will probably hurt it to the point where as someone said earlier will make it a short lived sixth gen.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

I tried to read that post out loud but I ran out of breath and blacked out. Here, have some commas: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[WhiterunGuard]

Do you have small lungs or something, I read it out loud just fine. .

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Do you have small lungs or something, I read it out loud just fine. .

 

[berettagt88]

I think the the new Camaro looks like a beast I hope the LT1 4 cylinder is more affordable lower than 23,00-26,000

 

[YSSMAN]

I think the the new Camaro looks like a beast I hope the LT1 4 cylinder is more affordable lower than 23,00-26,000

As far as I can remember, the GM press release tried to indicate that base Camaros will start around $23k, and run up to the low $40k range for a full-fat SS2 with all the boxes checked.

 

[Omnis]

Why would I want a loaded SS when I can get a GT350 for 47 grand?

 

[catamount39]

Why would I want a loaded SS when I can get a GT350 for 47 grand?

^This. The GT350 is EPIC.

Then for 4k more there is the Corvette...so...yeah.

 

[Omnis]

That too. But if you're too fat for a Vette...

 

[catamount39]

That too. But if you're too fat for a Vette...

Lol

 

[Grandea GTR]

^This. The GT350 is EPIC.

Then for 4k more there is the Corvette...so...yeah.

I dunno. I do fancy myself both the GT350 and the SS, but not the Corvette, somehow.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I feel like a GT350 would run reasonably well against a standard C7. We'll see though.

 

[WhiterunGuard]

@Beeblebrox237 Nice .gif but I got the joke.

 

[Blackbird.]

Why would I want a loaded SS when I can get a GT350 for 47 grand?

Exactly. Same applies to a loaded Mustang. I almost want to give up the S4 for it but I anticipate i'd regret that decision.

 

[YSSMAN]

I feel like a GT350 would run reasonably well against a standard C7. We'll see though.

Sticky tires and a good suspension setup will do that, on top of the aero tricks. I'd be surprised if Ford didn't decide to shoot for the Z51 with the GT350 at the very least.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Sticky tires and a good suspension setup will do that, on top of the aero tricks. I'd be surprised if Ford didn't decide to shoot for the Z51 with the GT350 at the very least.

I meant in a sort of no-asterisk kind of way. The 2000 Cobra R could match the C5 Z06 on a road course and the GT500 could outrun a C6 Z06 and maybe even a ZR-1 on a straight enough road, but the Mustang has never been able to get close to an all around performance package. The 2003 Cobra vs the standard C5 Corvette was probably the closest. The GT350 is looking like it might offer some game. It won't come close to the Z06 of course, but even managing to challenge the standard C7 as an all around package would be pretty great.

 

[berettagt88]

I meant in a sort of no-asterisk kind of way. The 2000 Cobra R could match the C5 Z06 on a road course and the GT500 could outrun a C6 Z06 and maybe even a ZR-1 on a straight enough road, but the Mustang has never been able to get close to an all around performance package. The 2003 Cobra vs the standard C5 Corvette was probably the closest. The GT350 is looking like it might offer some game. It won't come close to the Z06 of course, but even managing to challenge the standard C7 as an all around package would be pretty great.

The GT350 will lose to the new SS The new SS already is faster than the Z/28 because of less weight and MGR suspension and 455hp/455lbs-ft

 

[catamount39]

The GT350 will lose to the new SS The new SS already is faster than the Z/28 because of less weight and MGR suspension and 455hp/455lbs-ft

Doubt it, the GT350 is already a bargain campared ro the Camaro...and it's engineered like a Mustang GT-R for crying out loud. :3

 

[CSMDuty11]

Doubt it, the GT350 is already a bargain campared ro the Camaro...and it's engineered like a Mustang GT-R for crying out loud. :3

Well, if Mr. Beretta's avatar is anything to go by.....

 

[catamount39]

Well, if Mr. Beretta's avatar is anything to go by.....

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Bias.. Keeping politicians and fanboys arguing over nothing since the beginning of time.

 

[GTboyz]

Well, if Mr. Beretta's avatar is anything to go by.....

 

[xprojected]

Why would I want a loaded SS when I can get a GT350 for 47 grand?

You think the Ford dealers will let you have one for that much? That there won't be thousands of dollars in markups for a year or two?

Meanwhile Chevy dealers will have their usual 5-10% discounts off MSRP.

 

[catamount39]

If I want a FR car with less than 8 cylinders I'd get an FR-S...not a Camaro. It's smaller, lighter, and since it is a "Toyota family" car it's built better than the Camaro...GM is scaring me as of late. Plus a bare bones FR-S has more sing than a bare bones Camaro.

FR-S>Camaro
FR-S<Mustang

 

[Zenith]

The GT350 will lose to the new SS The new SS already is faster than the Z/28 because of less weight and MGR suspension and 455hp/455lbs-ft

Where did you get the information that the new SS is faster than the outgoing Z/28? Sounds like BS.

 

[catamount39]

Where did you get the information that the new SS is faster than the outgoing Z/28? Sounds like BS.

Yeah seriously, the Z/28 was a track car by every sense. IT WAS A HALF GT-R FOR GOD'S SAKE!

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

The GT350 will lose to the new SS The new SS already is faster than the Z/28 because of less weight and MGR suspension and 455hp/455lbs-ft

Um...

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Yeah there is no way. The Z/28 has an absurd wheel/tire package (305s on the front!) in addition to 50 more hp.

 

[Zenith]

Yeah there is no way. The Z/28 has an absurd wheel/tire package (305s on the front!) in addition to 50 more hp.

Exactly. You're going to need a hell of a lot more than that to beat these.

 

[YSSMAN]

You think the Ford dealers will let you have one for that much? That there won't be thousands of dollars in markups for a year or two?

Meanwhile Chevy dealers will have their usual 5-10% discounts off MSRP.

Depends on where you are in the country and what your market usually looks like. Living on the opposite side of the state from Detroit, early releases for special Mustangs usually run anywhere from $3-12k, depending on colors, options, and all that other junk. Last major markup I remember seeing was for the GT500 'vert that had a market adjustment of $6000 on top of the sticker price. Not entirely ridiculous given that it was one of the first on the road, but, still something I'd want to wait on.

The likelihood of the Camaro having any sort of markup at start is highly unlikely, at least around Michigan. All three versions will largely be volume models, and there is plenty of production capacity in Lansing to keep the market satiated. The eventual performance variants, 1LE/ZL1 or otherwise will probably have slight markups to begin with, but will most-likely be lower given that they'll be a hell of a lot less rare than the early GT350s at start.

If I want a FR car with less than 8 cylinders I'd get an FR-S...not a Camaro. It's smaller, lighter, and since it is a "Toyota family" car it's built better than the Camaro...GM is scaring me as of late. Plus a bare bones FR-S has more sing than a bare bones Camaro.

FR-S>Camaro
FR-S<Mustang

Well, it is a bit of a different ballgame between the Camaro 2.0T and the FR-S. Although I'm fairly certain that GM will over some kind of performance variant of the car, it isn't being lauded as a performance option like the EcoBoost Mustang. Although I'd certainly consider the FR-S and Camaro 2.0T as something that'd be cross-shopped, the likelihood of it happening all that frequently is pretty small. Chassis wise, the Alpha setup is quite good compared to what the Toyobaru has to offer, and it'd really come down to the performance intentions of the engineers as to what goes best. But, build quality? Although we can't chalk much up to whatever the new Camaro will be, I don't think we can exactly hold Toyota up on a pedestal as of late, either.