Am I Becoming Racist? (rant)

[Swift]

You could look at it like this, if your grandad murdered someone, would it be right or fair for you to get arrested.

Actually, that's not a fair illustration as many people that have expereinced extreme racisim are still alive today. Such as many of the parents of members of this site including myself. My father still has a general distrust of white people. He has friends that are white and approves of my IRish fiancee, but he still has that "thing in the back of his mind" about white people.

Or, more aptly, would it be right for the grandson of the victim to have you arrested because your grandfather got away with it?

Yeah, that's a pretty good point there.

 

[Dave A]

By targetting white people in general you are targeting a far greater number of people that wern't involved or alive then, than were involved. But yeah kylehnat's was a more applicable illustration.

 

[Swift]

By targetting white people in general you are targeting a far greater number of people that wern't involved or alive then, than were involved. But yeah kylehnat's was a more applicable illustration.

Define "then"

 

[LeadSlead#2]

anybody here ever watch "Caliente"? it's a spanish named (oodly), comedy show, with mostly black comedians. once, I saw a white guy, who was doing good, everybody was laughing, he made fun of white people, then mexicans, then asians, then, it happened..... nobody laughed at a single joke he told after one crack on black people.

@Swift: I can understand people who've had racisim affect their lives, on one hand, and it's perfectly natural, to be angry, and even judge a whole race when bad enough things happen to you, or your family members, so I see your point, about your grandfather, and I don't blame him, I don't think most sensible people would.

However, most black people under 30 in this country today, have never experianced any more than possible minor racisim, including but not limited to, name calling, slurs, etc.


The problem is, when I hear a 18 yr. old black kid, talking about being repressed, and repeating kanye west (muther****er), talking about government smuggling liquor and drugs in the inner citys, to hold the black man down. and slavery. and nazis.
neither them, nor anybody they've ever met, in or out of their family, was ever a slave.
I have no comment on the ludacrisy of the smuggling. (did they secret service fill and light the pipes to?)
Nazi's? since when were they in this country? when was the last time an army of nazis marched through a city, raiding every house, killing every last minority they could find? ripping people out of homes, slaughtering every man, woman, & child, some on the spot, taking some to lineups, to execute them, after they just watched family members get murdered.
maybe these comparisons are extremely oudated, and rediculas?
quite frankly, it's almost blasphemic, to compare the petty forms of racisim most blacks encounter today, to the tragedy's of the past. Quite frankly, it's downright rude, undermining what happened to all those people, for no reason, other than skin color.

 

[Famine]

er...I think Dave Chappelle is this wizard hat guy then...he's just too racist, is not even funny 👎


Ciao!

Wizard hat = KKK...

 

[Kylehnat]

er...I think Dave Chappelle is this wizard hat guy then...he's just too racist, is not even funny

Wizard hat = KKK...

Are you forgetting about Mr. Clayton Bigsby?

 

[Swift]

@Swift: I can understand people who've had racisim affect their lives, on one hand, and it's perfectly natural, to be angry, and even judge a whole race when bad enough things happen to you, or your family members, so I see your point, about your grandfather, and I don't blame him, I don't think most sensible people would.

However, most black people under 30 in this country today, have never experianced any more than possible minor racisim, including but not limited to, name calling, slurs, etc.

Just to clearify, I was talking about my father, not grandfather.

 

[keeno_uk]

Actually, that's not a fair illustration as many people that have expereinced extreme racisim are still alive today. Such as many of the parents of members of this site including myself. My father still has a general distrust of white people. He has that "thing in the back of his mind" about white people.

I'm with ya there swift, my dad has the same atitude towards white people when he use to tell me about his experience dealing with skin heads in east london back in the 70s and 80s it scared me to death. But it does make you think what our parents and our granparents had to go through for us to be here.

 

[Dave A]

So, that's still no justification, most of the people around today wern't alive in the mid 1900s, let a lone involved. Discriminating against white people now, because black people then were discriminated against isn't justifiable. It's keeping the racial tension alive and kicking. I can tell you about plenty of peoples experiences with blacks, doesn't mean that in 40 years time I should discrimitate against blacks because of it. I see and hear far more racism from blacks in the UK than I do from whites, so why is that just?

 

[Swift]

So, that's still no justification, most of the people around today wern't alive in the mid 1900s, let a lone involved. Discriminating against white people now, because black people then were discriminated against isn't justifiable. It's keeping the racial tension alive and kicking. I can tell you about plenty of peoples experiences with blacks, doesn't mean that in 40 years time I should discrimitate against blacks because of it. I see and hear far more racism from blacks in the UK than I do from whites, so why is that just?

ok l4s, it happened to MY PARENTS THAT ARE LIVE TODAY. So, while I don't agree, you can't say it's not justified.

 

[Dave A]

It isn't justified, because by discriminating against whites your discriminating against a hell of a lot of people who had absolutely nothing to do with discriminating against the blacks. If you could round up the individuals involved then discriminate against them, and them a lone, sure you might have a case, but you can't so the next best thing is to get along with the new generations who didn't have anytihng to do with it, rather than agrovate them and increase the racial tensions that were cooling down. My parents are alive today too, and you know what, they had nothing to do with racial discrimination. so again, how is it just?

 

[keeno_uk]

I think what swift is trying to say is that through the bad and very bad experiences that his parents have gone through they are almost naturally have a bad perspective of all white my parents are the same way, my dad knows discrimination is bad but how he sees it is like this "if I get the discriminated then I'll do it bk" its not right but thats how he feels about it.

live4speed let me ask you a question if you felt discriminated by a race your whole life you wouldnt feel some sort of anamosty towards that entire race and that if you had a chance you wouldnt discriminate to get your own back? and I'm talking about a 40+ life so you have a long experience with this

 

[Famine]

live4speed let me ask you a question if you felt discriminated by a race your whole life you wouldnt feel some sort of anamosty towards that entire race and that if you had a chance you wouldnt discriminate to get your own back? and I'm talking about a 40+ life so you have a long experience with this

We have been. Okay, not on a whole second-class-citizen, allowed in white areas only, can't get most jobs way, but we still have been.

You're a Brit. How many times have you heard Bernard Manning or Jim Davidson lambasted in the press for telling a joke about a "darkie"? How many times have you heard of ANY comedian being censured for telling a white person joke? How many kids at school did you hear of getting hauled over the coals for calling a black kid a "paki" (or any other variant)? How many kids at school did you hear of getting hauled over the coals for calling a white kid "chalkie" (or any other variant)?

I can honestly only think of one occasion EVER where non-white-on-white racial abuse has resulted in discipline when I was either at or working in a school, and that's pretty much two decades' worth of experience. And I can't think of any occasion where the press has worked themselves up into a frenzy when a black comedian has made a joke about white people. Ever. The other way round, however...


Granted, this hasn't really affected my life at all - other than pissing me off about the massive hypocrisy - in the way that racism against black people, even in the last century did, but any discrimination against other people based on their race IS racism. It doesn't matter if it's big or small, it's still racism.

 

[FormulaGT]

I can honestly only think of one occasion EVER where non-white-on-white racial abuse has resulted in discipline when I was either at or working in a school, and that's pretty much two decades' worth of experience. And I can't think of any occasion where the press has worked themselves up into a frenzy when a black comedian has made a joke about white people. Ever. The other way round, however...


Granted, this hasn't really affected my life at all - other than pissing me off about the massive hypocrisy - in the way that racism against black people, even in the last century did, but any discrimination against other people based on their race IS racism. It doesn't matter if it's big or small, it's still racism.

I couldn't agree more here. I guess in Australia, we have racism moreso relating to cultural difference and to a much lesser degree, skin colour. A typical scenario would be in a public place, say a food court, where the different cultures and ethnic backrouds mix like oil and water. Typically, you'd get white people snickering about how Aisians go about their daily business or people commenting on the way Indans dress. It's really is awful. I honestly think that the definition of 'racism' should be re-evaluated. I recall reading somewhere that scientists, to this day, have never actually found a gene that dictates 'race', thus in effect, we are all part of one group of beings that spread across the planet, eventually developing different features to adapt to their climate. It's sad how the rift between white & black people has further widened. To a certain extent, black people could feel entitled to dislike white people. White people dragged them from their families & treated them as property. But there is nothing to suggest that this never occured to whites. Apart from maybe biased historical evidence.

In terms of non-white-on-white racial abuse resulting in some for of prosecution, I can think of Lillian Thuram (correct me if I'm wrong). He refused to play untill the insults he received from the crowd, which likened him to a monkey, stopped. I believe the Italian Football Federation now fines these idiotic hooligans upon arrest.

A very ethical issue, but where do you draw the line? I like to think that one day, the issue of discrimination will disappear. However unlikely it sounds...

FormulaGT

 

[Dave A]

live4speed let me ask you a question if you felt discriminated by a race your whole life you wouldnt feel some sort of anamosty towards that entire race and that if you had a chance you wouldnt discriminate to get your own back? and I'm talking about a 40+ life so you have a long experience with this

Weather I did or I didn't it certianly wouldn't be justify me becoming racially predjudice against an entire race, and if I had the chance, no I wouldn't discriminate against the race, I might discriminate against the individual if I had been subject to attacks from that individual in the past and they were severe enough for me to do so but never against an entire race. And yes I have experienced racial predjudice against me and against whites before, not 40+ years worth obviousely and not nearly as severe as blacks had been in the past, but neither has Swift, you or 90%+ of the members on this site, let alone involved in this discussion, so to take that route voids all of us from taking part and having much of a say on the matter from either side. The bottom line is discriminatting against people for thier race is wrong, regardless of the reason. The modern generations of blacks that are supposedly "gettign their own back" wern't around when blacks were being discriminated against, and the neither were the modern generations of whites that the blacks are getting their own back on. You tell me, how can you justify racial discrimination?

 

[LeadSlead#2]

You know, it's been said that white people bought slaves from Africans, rather than dragged them from their homes.
Which kinda makes sense, cause wouldnt a massive war have broken out, if these strange people showed up and started taking people away?

 

[FormulaGT]

Hmm, but they didn't just dance into the hands of their 'owners'. If there was a war, the Africans would've been completely overpowered from British/American infantry & weaponry. They wouldn't give themselves to the traders without some sort of resistence.

But racism as a whole is atrocious, minimise it's appearance possible:tup:

FormulaGT

 

[Swift]

Weather I did or I didn't it certianly wouldn't be justify me becoming racially predjudice against an entire race, and if I had the chance, no I wouldn't discriminate against the race, I might discriminate against the individual if I had been subject to attacks from that individual in the past and they were severe enough for me to do so but never against an entire race. And yes I have experienced racial predjudice against me and against whites before, not 40+ years worth obviousely and not nearly as severe as blacks had been in the past, but neither has Swift, you or 90%+ of the members on this site, let alone involved in this discussion, so to take that route voids all of us from taking part and having much of a say on the matter from either side. The bottom line is discriminatting against people for thier race is wrong, regardless of the reason. The modern generations of blacks that are supposedly "gettign their own back" wern't around when blacks were being discriminated against, and the neither were the modern generations of whites that the blacks are getting their own back on. You tell me, how can you justify racial discrimination?

Just so you know L4S, justified and correct aren't the same. I said that their feelings are justified, not correct. In other words, they have concrete reasons for why they feel the way they do. You can give out all the analogies you like and it won't change that fact.

Again, I DON'T agree. But their feelings are justified, not correct.

 

[Dave A]

To be justified it has to be fair, some black man harbouring hateful feelings about me and my family is not justified because other white people 30 or so years ago who had nothing to do with me or my family harboured hatefull feelings against him. That isn't justified. If anything it may be understandable in some cases, but it's neither justified nor correct.

I guess we can't agree on everything .

 

[Swift]

To be justified it has to be fair, some black mad harbouring hateful feelings about me and my family is not justified because other white people 30 or so years ago who had nothing to do with me or my family harboured hatefull feelings against him. That isn't justified. If anything it may be understandable in some cases, but it's neither justified nor correct.

I guess we can't agree on everything .

Who said it had to be fair?

Definitions for Justification on google

# something (such as a fact or circumstance) that shows an action to be reasonable or necessary; "he considered misrule a justification for revolution"
# a statement in explanation of some action or belief
# the act of defending or explaining or making excuses for by reasoning; "the justification of barbarous means by holy ends"- H.J.Muller

So, where does that say anything about fairness?

Again, my parents aren't radical white hating racists. They just have that "thing in the back of their mind" about white people. I don't like it, I don't subscribe to it and I try to talk them out of it but that's where it is. And when they can point to actions that have happend RECENTLY, it's very hard for me to argue.

 

[Dave A]

Okay fair enough on the justification point then, but as much as your parents, you or anyone else can point out incidents of racial abuse towards blacks, there's a lot of us who can point it out against whites too. You can't get rid of racism by passing off laws that benefit one race over another, you can only promote and provoke it by doing so.

 

[Swift]

Okay fair enough on the justification point then, but as much as your parents, you or anyone else can point out incidents of racial abuse towards blacks, there's a lot of us who can point it out against whites too. You can't get rid of racism by passing off laws that benefit one race over another, you can only promote and provoke it by doing so.

yeah, we agreed on that about 5 pages ago

 

[Dave A]

Right well theres no point in us going round in circles then, I can't remember 5 pages ago .

 

[LeadSlead#2]

To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid: justified each budgetary expense as necessary; anger that is justified by the circumstances.
To declare free of blame; absolve.
To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.
Law.
To demonstrate sufficient legal reason for (an action taken).

Justify, pretty much means correct, and right.
now, in the second listed meaning, Swift is correct.
But generally speaking, Justified means that it is right.
So, you were both right.
Just to make this extra clear: Anger, towards people who have done nothing to you, is not anger justified by circumstances.
But, circumstances that have previously happened, can convince people to "declare free of blame"

 

[Matt R]

You can't get rid of racism by passing off laws that benefit one race over another, you can only promote and provoke it by doing so.

Well said. +rep

 

[Keef]

Is now a good time to bring this thread back? I think it is.

I've never read any of this thread before. I got done with Danoff's post and I was pretty annoyed with it. I didn't have anything to gripe about. I didn't have anything to add to it. Apparently he, a Californian from lovey-dovey California, considers race just like a kid from Ohio.

I haven't really been on this planet long enough to know much about how things worked before affirmative action. Back then I was too young to pay much attention to it. I remember having a few black friends in middle school but that's about as far back as I can remember. I'm curious if my discrimination is a result of this affirmative action society that I matured in or if it's just the way I was raised by my parents (my mom is a blazing racist and she refuses to give a reason). I know I didn't consider Obama's black skin specifically when I made my decision to vote. But I know a lot of people did because it was all the rage on talk radio. There were more than a few people who called in citing "white guilt" as their reason for voting for Obama. It was appalling.

So anyway, how are everyone's opinions on the situation two years after this thread was started?

 

[Perfect Balance]

I still feel the same way I did when I posted before in this thread. I hate the "thug/gangsta" look. I automatically tend to dislike people that fall into that category. Is it my fault that about 90% of all black people I've seen fall into the category?

 

[OZZYGT]

I still feel the same way I did when I posted before in this thread. I hate the "thug/gangsta" look. I automatically tend to dislike people that fall into that category. Is it my fault that about 90% of all black people I've seen fall into the category?

I don't think that's racism because you're talking about the cultural difference between you and "them". To me racism is when you dislike/hate another person for his/her skin color.

I agree with you on the thug/gansta despise, but I have black friends from France, Jamaica, etc.. and they dress, talk, and think different than the stereotype.

 

[Eric.]

I still feel the same way I did when I posted before in this thread. I hate the "thug/gangsta" look. I automatically tend to dislike people that fall into that category. Is it my fault that about 90% of all black people I've seen fall into the category?

I also hate whites (or anyone else for that matter) who do the "thug/gangsta" ****. Its definitely not a race issue.

 

[SpawnBlack]

I like what I have seen written here. I'm Black and was born here in London, England. I have seen many forms of Racisim but not just against black people but Indian, Chinese, and white people. We all do it to each other in some form without realising we are doing it. Thats what being Human is all about, we tend to judge first when we see how someone looks wheather or not if we think that person got the job because of their skin colour.

Many times I have been loved for the way I do things at work but in the same breath have been discriminated against because my background and my culture is different even though I was born In London and know everything about England. Getting the job is something that everyone has to prove they are capable of getting but when youre finally in that job its what happens within with co-workers and how they view you. I walk the streets of London and hope that a white person or Indian or Chinese would say hello to me when I smile at them instead of looking at me as if I'm about to steal something from them. But the worst is being racist to our own race wheather your black, indian chinese or white and why is all about black and white. I cant say anymore because it will not change until the Human Race changes its predujice ways.