Am I the only person who hates the rallying?

[maggkrabar]

...
As for needing "ninjas' hand speed" it's simply not the case as you learn to know where the wheels are pointing and never need to madly steer around in a fluster (this is because you have spent time learning the technique and patience instead of giving up because you are frustrated). You learn to know where you need to correct the steering and it is rarely more than 180 degrees to the left or right. The whole point of rallying is to pre-empt where you need to apply steering, gas and brake because it's all delayed massively.
...

👍 that is most exact "rally steering" point. But quite often You will need to correct the driveline - as fast as You can - with gas, brake or change steering polarity(2-3 times per second). With more than 500 degree(half 250) it becomes crazy steering(ninjas hand speed ). Be quick with gas, brake and steer - the common point of rally racing and rally car ballance.

 

[RenesisEvo]

I am utterly confused by GT4's rally physics.

Example 1

License test IB - cant remember the number, but it involved driving an Evo 8. I was fearful of getting bronze with my previous experience of GT4 rallying...
I got silver after a few goes. I was amazed that there was some grip!! and yet - when I drove an Impreza rally prototype in arcade mode on the same course - it felt like driving on ice. Which leads me neatly to:

Example 2
I took my recently acquired GT-Mode Impreza Rally prototype around Chamonix. Again, I heard many bad things about this... but it wasn't so bad!! I could actually reasonably drive it round - 2min30.xxx i think. Probably slow, and nothing like AI-on-rails, but it didnt feel like a disaster.

So - why does a road car (well, ignoring its rally heritage) have more grip than a rally car on dirt?? and why does the rally car have more grip on ice than dirt???

 

[Beelzebub]

my only beef about rallying in gt4 is the ridiculous 5 sec penalty.

 

[.:(6bANGR):.]

Yup!! totally agree with you here ive neva liked rally they neva should have put it in the game (GT2) leave it up to "colin mcrae" and other specific rally games for that and expand on more road detailing or wateva in GT just get rid of the rally a.k.a pinball, i cant keep off the walls half the time lmao

 

[R5Turbo2]

R5Turbo- Yea, im looking forward to hearing about your steering wheel control you learned.

So here is a little update about that. I tried to come up with some word document but it did not look good. So I decided that I was going to take pictures to explain the basics and shoot some videos to show what it looks like in action. I also have to hook up my Pinnacle capture board to record out-board camera replays to help explain what I mean.

I also looked at maggkrabar's videos, they show the basics :

1 - As little steering as possible (this is the lazy guy's job).
2 - Precise gas and brakes timing and control (your feet steer the car).

A close look at the one in Chamonix shows that he has to counter steer quite a bit only a couple of times. Otherwise the front wheels are only moving something like 45 degrees at most right or left. A few years ago I was watching Bjorn Valdegaard racing in Chamonix during the 24 hours ice race. This guys was about 1 second a lap faster than anybody else (there were no beginners in this race, only well know drivers!). His front wheels were like moving at most 30 degrees away from straight position. His gas / brake / steering timing was unbelievable, this is something I will never forget, that's what I want to achieve. Needless to say it's far from easy.

PhM

 

[R5Turbo2]

Not to talk about its 4G (the highest intel is 3.8G) processor,

4 Gigs is a bit optimistic, the good thing is that you'll have several processors to get the jobs done.

PhM

 

[KurtG]

Thanks for the hints r5turbo. Ive realized the very low amount of steering needed to race effectively recently actually. I learned this by watching some good racers on Live for Speed. I didnt know this applied to rallying as well, but i guess it makes sense.
To maggkrabar: So do you use 900 degree steering with a dfp or what do you use? I wasnt sure if you were saying it slows you down to use 900 degree mode because you need to be able to countersteer quickly, or if you were saying 900 degree mode works great, you just need to realize you dont need to steer all that much.

Oh, this reminds me, did anyone else find the rally tests ridiculously easy to get gold on? Im really not trying to sound like im bragging here.... i just remember in gt3 i had to work really hard and drive a perfect line but i got gold on the first or second time everytime in gt4 rally tests.

 

[maggkrabar]

R5Turbo2 👍

RenesisEvo, are You use driving AIDs in arcade mode? AIDs are crazy!

KurtG,
No, the problem is not in single contersteering. Quite often You will need to do 1-3 hard contersteers in only one second to stable the car driving line and throw the car front wheels in desired direction. On rally tracks it is hard to use grip or brakes to stable the car - there is no enough traction - so You have to use sidewalls of the FRONT tires with cobmination of steering, contersteering, gas and brake - all this in one second. In next one second You have to do the same thing. You can use brakes and gas to steer with sliding friction only. You can use front tires sidewalls only with quick contersteers - that is all.

900 degree is the best for smooth racing. But in Rally racing, when You're on the EDGE of car and road limits - You cannot be smooth. The car is "dancing" all the time - so You have to "dance" with car You can use a bit of steering, OK - smooth and fast. If You are AI, You can be smooth all the time. Are You an AI? No(I guess) - so You have to do corrections with hard contersteering as fast as is possible. OK, try to do 3 hard contersteers in one second with DFP 900 degree mode...

Go at http://www.gigigalli.com/, download Gigi Galli videos and enjoy. You will see that I'm saying. Gigi Galli is my favourite rally driver - Hi is madmadmadman BTW Gigi Galli did most of rally tarmac drifts without hand brake use - watch videos carefully.
It will be better if You can get WRC Rally Onboard Camera Spezial(120min) - very good video - 120min crazy hard contersteering action. 900 degree mode? No, thanks.

I'm using 180(half 90). I need 360(half 180) but cannot get it - Speedster 3 F1 slyle. It is more difficult with that half 90 - need a lot of practice and precision. With half 180 is easier.

Oh, this reminds me, did anyone else find the rally tests ridiculously easy to get gold on? Im really not trying to sound like im bragging here.... i just remember in gt3 i had to work really hard and drive a perfect line but i got gold on the first or second time everytime in gt4 rally tests.

There is another else AI bug - on slippery surfaces GT4 AI cannot use sliding friction(sidewalls of the tires as one part of the braking force) at all! If You learn how to throw a car sideways without enough weight transfer(no grip!) - You will be quite faster than GT4 AI cars. Yes, the rally tests are easy if You once understood Rally cars behaviour and spend enough time for practice - GT4 is non-user friendly simulation(very hard one - real) and practice is the best way.

 

[Zardoz]

...Oh, this reminds me, did anyone else find the rally tests ridiculously easy to get gold on?...

Yeah, me too. I used the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution Super Rally Car '03, and I've walked through them with it. All I have left is Grand Canyon Hard, and that's going to be tough for me. Good!

I'll go back and do them all again with some of the older Rally cars, concentrating on staying off the walls and making clean runs. That should present a real challenge. There's no doubt, though, that with the Super Evo and a little Scandinavian flick technique so you tap the walls with the rear bumper, you can breeze through them in a hurry if all you're looking to do is get them out of the way. I have no idea what people are talking about when they say these races are difficult.

I'm sure they'll be more interesting with other cars and no wallriding. I'm looking forward to it.

As for those who hate the 5-second penalties, well, I disagree. The potential for a penalty keeps you on your toes. You need to stay out of range of your AI competitor so he can't rear-end you, and control the car so you don't hit something nose-first. It really isn't that hard to do.

It could also be that the no-force-feedback Mad Catz 270-degree wheel I use is well-suited to these events. Combining it with the Super Evo makes the whole series a snap.

 

[Dr_Watson]

the rally mode has been a useless waste of development dollars since its gt2 debut.
every iteration of the game since i've been praying hey would kill it.
but eh.. its not really difficult since you can just roller-coaster most of the walls and get them done with and forget about that part of the game.
shame they wasted the time and effort making it at all though.

 

[jdw]

I'll go back and do them all again with some of the older Rally cars, concentrating on staying off the walls and making clean runs. That should present a real challenge. There's no doubt, though, that with the Super Evo and a little Scandinavian flick technique so you tap the walls with the rear bumper, you can breeze through them in a hurry if all you're looking to do is get them out of the way. I have no idea what people are talking about when they say these races are difficult.

I'm sure they'll be more interesting with other cars and no wallriding. I'm looking forward to it.

As for those who hate the 5-second penalties, well, I disagree. The potential for a penalty keeps you on your toes. You need to stay out of range of your AI competitor so he can't rear-end you, and control the car so you don't hit something nose-first. It really isn't that hard to do.
.

Just like the rest of GT4, the level of difficulty is entirely up to you. Finding the right car and the right competitor(s) is key. Well, you found a car (the Super Evo) that makes the Rally's easy.

If you want a little bit of challenge (yet still quite doable), I'd recommend - for Hard - the Impreza spec C stock. Against the Impreza Rally Car on the dirt tracks you'll net 149p per track.

For a serious challenge, the RS200 road car or a slightly modded 3000GT. Those will be tough. But, I'm told, are still capable of winning.

 

[shaunsund]

Rallying... I didn't like it in GT3, and I like it even less in GT4... here are a few of the reasons...

1. Half the cars don't handle worth a damn, and they're all pretty much the same power untuned or tuned (300hp/550hp)

2. There are dedicated rally games out there (Colin McRaes spring to mind) that do the handling a hell of a lot better...

3. Why the hell are Pd insisting on making us doing 2/3/5 laps of a lousy track circuit when in the majority of cases RALLYING IS POINT TO POINT! No laps... no going round and round and round in a car that refuses to go around a corner faster than 12 mph (whilst your opponent in an untuned car goes round every corner flawlessly at 3 times the speed, of course). Ye Gods, if Sega GT 2002 could do it, why not PD?!

4. ESCUDO - a car that doesn't go around corners, in a a rallying game where cornering is essential. I rest my case.

And to truly make a joke out of the rallying... half of the tracks weren't even rally tracks... just normal road tracks or race tracks... tsukuba wet anyone?

One last thought - yes I have completed the rallying on every setting, including hard... won every car, and hated every minute. Particularly the ice track which is about as much fun to drive as your average motorway/freeway at rush hour during holiday season...

PD, either do it properly, or don't bother. Currently your rallying is as much fun as having your sinuses scraped with a rusty rake. Do something about it... PLEASE.

Count me in. There ******g **** 🤬

 

[Mechanicalizzle]

Rallying was one of my favorites in GT3, im kinda shaky with it in GT4, but basically. Do rallying in Manual Transmission, its the only way. (Infact, do the whole damn game in Manual).

Well, there is a specific technique i use in rallying with manual, but i cant really explain it. If i find a way to explain it properly, i will......

 

[El_Torero]

Yep... also hate it. I love to see the replays of any normal race, you watch the rally ones and its plainly ridiculous. No point.

If you want to put a car sideways just use a skyline. I do love the Lancia Integrale and Stratos, but for tarmac rallies.

PD should spend more time creating europeans cars. PD, please leave the rally tracks for other games.

 

[DevilGTx]

Sounds to me like a lot of people are whining about it...
Is it too hard?

Whatever.
It's funny how people say they love the rally cars, but can't stand to drive them in the rally.
Becoming skilled in the rally events can only make you a better player.
Rallies are a great way to improve your car control.

So let's get dirty!

<--- That's Tron...he fights for the users.

 

[shaunsund]

Rallying was one of my favorites in GT3, im kinda shaky with it in GT4, but basically. Do rallying in Manual Transmission, its the only way. (Infact, do the whole damn game in Manual).

Well, there is a specific technique i use in rallying with manual, but i cant really explain it. If i find a way to explain it properly, i will......

Yeah in GT3 it was way easier! What's happened now?

 

[Impreza STi]

edit: One more thing, can you guys tell me if RBR would run on my relatively c*ap computer. I dont know much about comps but ill give what info i can.

Laptop Presario 2100 mobile AMD athlon xp2400+ 1.79 GHz, 448 MB of RAM.
thanks.

I have the exact same laptop, and NO, RBR won't work because the crappy ATi IGP 320M graphics is WAY not enough for RBR (it doesn't do Vertex Shading, so no dice)

I did get it to work on a 933 MHz Pentium III with a GeForce FX 5700 Ultra! with goof FPS...

As for the handbrake thing, the differentials on a rally car are electronically controlled and can tighten/loosen at will. When you hit the e-brake the center diff unlocks automatically...

 

[orpheusd0wn]

I would greatly appreciate it if they'd put the rally mode and the arcade mode on a seperate disc, and then leave that disc out.

 

[mintee]

I would greatly appreciate it if they'd put the rally mode and the arcade mode on a seperate disc, and then leave that disc out.

hehe...couldn't have said it better myself. They can include that disc in the "Press Release" version that you wouldn't want to play with anway.

 

[Cosmic]

Yay..a thread back from dead. It's better than making a new one.

I would greatly appreciate it if they'd put the rally mode and the arcade mode on a seperate disc, and then leave that disc out.

Yes, it would be a great idea. Rally should be on the arcade disc and leave it out when it come to GT Mode. I just don't see any meaning with doing 3 laps around the most boring track ever Grand Canyon (and the rest of the rally tracks), it's pain in the ass, and don't even mention 5 laps!

 

[T4 GTR]

I've never enjoyed the rallying but I grudgingly managed the Easy/Medium but the hard ones are HARD. Shame we can't make bob do it either.

Cheers anyway

T4 GTR

 

[ImprezaAddict]

Actually, youre not the only one. I too hate rally because of the plain thing that you slide waaaaaay too much. I thought this was the same as GT3 where it was easy to handle and take a nice powerslide. In GT4 powersliding is way too exagerated

 

[Doggie]

I would greatly appreciate it if they'd put the rally mode and the arcade mode on a seperate disc, and then leave that disc out.

i would buy the separate disk just to get the satisfaction smash the dvd to million pieces..

 

[Dave A]

I would greatly appreciate it if they'd put the rally mode and the arcade mode on a seperate disc, and then leave that disc out.

The rallying I wouldn't mind if it didn't have that 5 second penatly, but the arcade mode is one of the best bit's of the game.

 

[Cosmic]

The rallying I wouldn't mind if it didn't have that 5 second penatly, but the arcade mode is one of the best bit's of the game.

Sure, I wouldn't mind it either...but the crappy physics and 5 sec penalty makes me want to break my disc in peices...

 

[samj_13]

i like the general idea of rallying, but make it authentic, PD.

do point-to-point racing

and no regular city races. those aren't rallies, except MAYBE citi d' arria (spelling??)

if and when they ever fix rally, TAKE AWAY GRAND CANYON!!!!! IT HAS TO BE THE MOST FRUSTRATING COURSE EVER!!!!!

~sam

 

[Smallhorses]

Ok, so, I'm not the world's suckiest person at rallying, but why can't I beat any of the Grand Canyon races? Admittedly I'm not going for a massacre, but even in something giving a horrific 10 A-spec points I'm still getting creamed on easy, medium or hard levels!
The rest of the rallies I've had no problem with, easily coping with between 60 and 200 points per stock entry, but I've 6 races left, and, you've guessed it they're all on the Grand Canyon track!
It's not as though I'm slow round here, or I've forgotton from the S-Licence test what it looks like, since I tried that last night.... loaded up the old Gold Ghost, and after 5 clean attempts (not a single 5s penalty among them) I beat my previous gold time by 1.1s, posting a 2'45.5xx time.... in the Starion rally car.
I went back immediately after this in the Toyota Celica (ST205) Rally Car '95 vs. the Mitsub"cheaty" Evo Super Rally Car '03 and despite lapping 4s quicker in 2'41.xxx I'm still 9s down by the end of lap 1! In normal mode, I took a stock Subaru Impreza '95 vs. a Renault Clio Sport Stage 2 V6 worth a mere 23 points and still got lambasted by 8s on the first lap despite posting a 2'51 laptime, in a road car, a mere 6s slower than a full-on Group B rally car of the '80s, and yet I'm still last by a long way!
Why is this? 100 - 200 A-spec points is not unreasonable for me in any other unmodified car for every other rally event, and I'm able to write-my-name-in-the-snow before the Gold Demo lap comes home, and yet I can't beat easy, normal or hard in this single place alone! What's up with the AI here?

 

[Cosmic]

I completed all SC Hall races yesterday.
Smallhorses, for the hard one, use the Ford Escort rally car, no modifications whatsoever It will give you between 63-180 a-spec, it depends what car the AI is using in the race.
For normal and easy you should use the Dodge Ram (fully tuned, 5xxhp) for 200 a-spec.
Hope that helps you...

 

[luftrofl]

Ok, so, I'm not the world's suckiest person at rallying, but why can't I beat any of the Grand Canyon races? Admittedly I'm not going for a massacre, but even in something giving a horrific 10 A-spec points I'm still getting creamed on easy, medium or hard levels!
The rest of the rallies I've had no problem with, easily coping with between 60 and 200 points per stock entry, but I've 6 races left, and, you've guessed it they're all on the Grand Canyon track!
It's not as though I'm slow round here, or I've forgotton from the S-Licence test what it looks like, since I tried that last night.... loaded up the old Gold Ghost, and after 5 clean attempts (not a single 5s penalty among them) I beat my previous gold time by 1.1s, posting a 2'45.5xx time.... in the Starion rally car.
I went back immediately after this in the Toyota Celica (ST205) Rally Car '95 vs. the Mitsub"cheaty" Evo Super Rally Car '03 and despite lapping 4s quicker in 2'41.xxx I'm still 9s down by the end of lap 1! In normal mode, I took a stock Subaru Impreza '95 vs. a Renault Clio Sport Stage 2 V6 worth a mere 23 points and still got lambasted by 8s on the first lap despite posting a 2'51 laptime, in a road car, a mere 6s slower than a full-on Group B rally car of the '80s, and yet I'm still last by a long way!
Why is this? 100 - 200 A-spec points is not unreasonable for me in any other unmodified car for every other rally event, and I'm able to write-my-name-in-the-snow before the Gold Demo lap comes home, and yet I can't beat easy, normal or hard in this single place alone! What's up with the AI here?

During the first lap, do you ever get right up to the rear bumper of the AI car? If so, you might want to consider using the rear end of your car to bump the other car out of the way(that's why they call them bumpers, right? 👍 ) I usually find that A) my rally races are determined within the first lap(I'm either 6+ seconds out front or 6+ seconds behind) and B) the AI seems to go significantly slower when it's in second place.

Other than that, you could try setting your car up for understeer(low LSD-accel. settings, raising the front ride height, lowering the rear ride height, etc.)

I remember that there are certain lines for the Grand Canyon track, but I haven't raced it outside of getting a gold license on a test in nearly a year. When I'm back home on Saturday(after a red-eye flight ) I'll go through and take pictures of my practice runs.

 

[STLbarcelona5]

I won almost every race (ever since I got the car) with the Mitsu Lancer Evo IV Rally '97. So basically all the hards and 1/2 of the mediums. Sometimes there were a few 200 a-spec pt. races (vs. lancia delta), but that's due to the power difference (around 290 if i remember correctly). The best part about the car, is actually the power. It's almost perfect for every situation, whether pulling the handbrake and pulling out of a hairpin, or launching down a straight into a long sweeper. The car is completely neutral, it oversteers when you want to, and never understeers.

Well. That's just my take on it. I dunno give it a try and maybe your rally problems will be solved (or at least helped).