Am I the only person who hates the rallying?

[videogame adict]

Firstly videogame addict, I've actually got 100% in the game, completed, done, the lot. Did all the rallying WITHOUT cheating. And I still hate that damn rallying! I paid the money I'm entitled to think what I like of the game - which is love the circuit racing, hate the rallying... and judging from the postings here, I'm not alone in that

-SNIP-

All of which seems an awful lot more fun than 5 laps of the grand canyon, with 5 second penalties for daring to drive faster than 29MPH...

I do agree with you on that if you want rallies, go buy a rally game.

-ZEDak

 

[KurtG]

No pressure, but im still wondering if someone could tell me whats so unrealistic about gt4 rallying compared to any other rally game (most likely RBR) which you think does rallying physics better.

To the comment about not simulating sideways traction:...? Im just going to have to assume you mash the throttle like the guy above suggested because the only time it simulates near zero sideways traction is when you do something like that, or some other possible car setup problems. Something that reminds me about is how the first rally car i got was the toyota rally raid car. I tried taking that thing on tahiti maze and it was just uncontrollable. Then I realized that it was because the VCD was set mostly to the rear tires. That must have really turned off so many people to rally driving because they werent hardcore enough to realize that the reason they were so out of control was mostly due to the VCD setting.

Obviously its pretty trivial to sit there and say that gt4 rallying sucks because it has laps and not point to point racing.... its dirt... its a track... it connects at the end instead of not connecting. True, its a bummer its not like it is in real life and the 5 second penalty thing is annoying... but just like the lack of damage and crap ai doesnt completely destroy the fun of the game in circuit racing the rallying isn't suddenly worthless because its too hard or has the other problems i just mentioned ... Im sure everyone has figured it out by now, GT4 is about the DRIVING. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course.

But anyway, like i said, what im really wondering about is the physics system. I want to hear how and in what ways its unrealistic.

 

[RenesisEvo]

I know the AI problem sucks, but I gotta say when people have the problem of no sideways grip, you're probably being crazy with the throttle. I noticed a while ago that I was constantly flooring it during the turns, and there's no way I'd do that drifting in my Supra. So just moderate the throttle till she's sliding pretty shallow, grip, and off you go.

tried that - doesnt really help me. It's wheelspin in any gear for almost any car, even when caressing the throttle. and i dont have the luxury of a DFP to make moderating the throttle easy (and the steering harder ).

The AI is pants, the 2-car set-up is pathetic and wrong. Change it please!! And stop making it nigh on impossible to drift without spending years perfecting it. Yes i dont mind practising, but I feel that a few weeks should be the maximum for a game, not an eternity.

 

[nurburgring]

tried that - doesnt really help me. It's wheelspin in any gear for almost any car, even when caressing the throttle. and i dont have the luxury of a DFP to make moderating the throttle easy (and the steering harder ).

The AI is pants, the 2-car set-up is pathetic and wrong. Change it please!! And stop making it nigh on impossible to drift without spending years perfecting it. Yes i dont mind practising, but I feel that a few weeks should be the maximum for a game, not an eternity.

I wasn't expecting much about rallying from PD...
And I was right.
I have a lot more fun with V-Rally or Colin McRae game...
But on the concrete and asphalt tracks GT4 rocks!

 

[maggkrabar]

GT = Real Driving Simulation. In GT You can drive Rally Car but not doing WRC races. So You do not need Co-driver There are real races on Special Condition Tracks using Rally(and WRC) Cars - same like in GT - mad thin snow or dirt circuits - a lot of cars and crazy competitions. Rally is only race not World Rally Championship. You wanna WRC? Get WRC game...

There are rally cars in GT. The Best in the world. You like them? You wanna drive them? - Drive!

Cannot drive - practice, practice. Your fun - Your choice.

But anyway, like i said, what im really wondering about is the physics system. I want to hear how and in what ways its unrealistic.

Me too ... I'm using real rally techniques in GT rally cars driving and couldn't find any reason to start rumbling.

 

[Skant]

All I see on this thread is a lot of folks complaining that they don't know how to drive on dirt and how dare PD not make the cars able to get unrealistically high traction on off road surfaces just like McRae and all the other rally games on the market. Oh, and nothing bad should happen when they hit stuff.


Come on guys... a stock Impreza manages 1.0g turns in the dirt in GT4, and you're complaining that its _lack_ of grip is unrealistic? Geezus... most RL cars can't turn that hard on asphalt!

I really hope PD never listens to the whiners.

- Skant

 

[Stian]

No pressure, but im still wondering if someone could tell me whats so unrealistic about gt4 rallying compared to any other rally game (most likely RBR) which you think does rallying physics better.

------

But anyway, like i said, what im really wondering about is the physics system. I want to hear how and in what ways its unrealistic.

In short, RBR is the best driving sim on the market. It simulates 300 BHP cars alot better than GT4. How you tacle a turn is up to you: lift-off oversteer, powerslide, left-foot braking, handbrake turning, you name it. Can you really claim the handbrake does anyting usefull in GT4? Can you apply the handbrake to induce a controlled slide around a hairpin in GT4? How about LFB(left-foot braking)? I have not felt the need to incorporate a LFB strategy into my driving in GT4. Brakes? In RBR you have to threshold-brake. If not, you WILL go straight ahed. I feel GT4 fails in the brake department also.
It is naturally a great pluss to be able to set prake pressure in RBR (in adittion to tyre pressure). You don't really set pressure in GT4 do you.
Try changing the rear differential in RBR (the mapping is a BIT more detailed compared to GT4. Look at the REAR mapping http://www.strikerz.net/~geert/rbr/rbr_adjustedtarmacsetup.jpg
Then you have these possibilities for Front, centre, centre left-foot and the differential tourqe). Now in GT4, if i recall, we have... LSD. Yeah....
Changing settings in RBR acctually WORKS. Adjust toe, camber or caster in degrees (not -10 to +10 or whatever arbitrary scale GT4 applies) will change the behaviour of the car. (This opens up for searching out relative camber angles and such, and that ain't an easy thing he he). In GT4 changing toe does SOMETHING, i know. But I still have not found a definitive answer as to weather toe-out is +1 or-1).
Add to that, RBR has damage. Not only visual, but damage influencing the car. Push too hard in long, hot stages and you will find yourself with a blown head gasket. If you manage to finish the stage then, you are lucky. And if you happen to damage the radiator too, by the end of the stage the tea-water is ready.
And with changing weather conditions (it can rain on any stage. It is not static as in CMR or WRC where stage 2 allways is rainy and so on) track-surface changes. If you start first, you drive the dust off the track, and start later the track will be dusted for you by earlier runners. Just as it is in real life, for those not familiar with rally.
Sadly (for itself) RBR is ROCK HARD. It's realistic to the extreme. Make a small error in entry to a turn, and you likely end up with a crippeled car. So hard is this game that it is only really mastered by the really rally hardcore gamers ;-) Most are put off by the sheer ammount of practice and perfection you need, to be able to compete in the medium difficulty. So punters end up buying the hype, and believe GT4 is the pinnacle of driving sims on the ps2. The more "accessible" of the two.
There are NO CONTEST as to what game is the real driving simulator. RBR betters GT4 on ALL fronts, but still GT4 is a pretty good tarmac game. It is the only game, in addition to RBR, I have bothered to buy for my ps2. And until RBR2 (hopefully) and GT5 is out, my collection is unlikely to increase.

 

[TheChef]

Yes i have to agree with the majority of posts to this thread - I think the Rallying is a waste of time. Can't comment on how realistic it is as Ive never driven a rally car on a loose surface but its such a different dicipline to the rest of GT4 i just can't be bothered to learn a totally different method of getting round a corner fast just for the sake of 6 tacks. I am however working my way through the special conditions - did the easy section in a few hours no real troubles there - just used a seriously over powered Evo to blast a gap at any straight. Done most of normal gain no dificulties apart from getting very bored driving 3 laps then I was horrified to find out i had to do the same track again but normal and reverse (what a poor way of 'increasing playablity') to 5 laps!! no thanks ill be leaving that I think. Oh well I'm not going to be complaining if its taken out of GT5. I wish PD had tried something different like a dragster mode with all different classes and levels from 'normal' cars included in GT to Funny Cars and Top Fuelers - that would have been fun!! learning about setting a car up for a 400m burst and nothing else.

 

[Anderton Prime]

And to truly make a joke out of the rallying... half of the tracks weren't even rally tracks... just normal road tracks or race tracks... tsukuba wet anyone?

That's why it's not called RALLYING at all. It's called SPECIAL CONDITIONS in GT4, and that's why they included tracks with water on them, tracks with snow and ice on them, and tracks like Costa Di Amalfi and Citti Di Aria which are simply extremely twisty or extremely narrow (or both).

 

[maggkrabar]

In short, RBR is the best driving sim on the market. It simulates 300 BHP cars alot better than GT4. How you tacle a turn is up to you: lift-off oversteer, powerslide, left-foot braking, handbrake turning, you name it. Can you really claim the handbrake does anyting usefull in GT4? Can you apply the handbrake to induce a controlled slide around a hairpin in GT4? How about LFB(left-foot braking)? I have not felt the need to incorporate a LFB strategy into my driving in GT4. Brakes? In RBR you have to threshold-brake. If not, you WILL go straight ahed. I feel GT4 fails in the brake department also.
...

Hey Stian, good post You made - a lot of good questions. I will try to do more detailed answer. I'm WRC fan so I wanna do it.
Dude, are You Talking About dirt & snow or You're Talking about tarmac Rally Driving? I guess dirt & snow - all say tarmac is OK.


All You Rally rumblers, Remember THAT:
1. When You're on tarmac, You have to use a FRICTION CIRCLE DRIVING CAR DYNAMICS when cornering. Whenever You're Gripping or Drifting. It is on Online Gaming Shcool, sure You well know it.
2. When You're cornering on SNOW or DIRT or make POWERSLIDES(all 4 whels sliding) You are ALMOST OUT of the FRICTION CIRCLE and You CANNOT use it to get full control of a car sliding. So You have to use DYNAMIC FRICTION. Sorry for reposting but... :

Rally Sport Ontario.

On asphalt with gripping friction, the best technique is to brake as hard as possible while not locking up the wheels, using the tire within its (static) friction circle and maintaining directional control. But on gravel the static friction circle is very small (there’s not much traction) and threshold braking in a straight line is not very effective. On gravel, it is much more effective to throw the car sideways, use the sidewalls of the tires as one part of the braking force, and feather the brakes for the other part of the braking force – then you’re using the tires in two directions simultaneously, and you’re misaligning the rear wheels from the fronts as you slide so that they get more bite on a fresh surface too. So we don’t just slide around to look cool – sliding is, among other things, an effective traction tool under conditions of dynamic friction.

HERE is the link:
http://www.rallysport.on.ca/articles/Driving.html
read it carefully!

About two foot breaking - Yes, You can do it if Your controler can do it(DFP may be? I don't know). I'm using Speedster3 so my gas and brake are on the same Y axis - they are not separated - I cannot use two foot braking.

Hand brake turning? On dirt & snow? With 4WD car? HA! Did You check Your LSD knowledge? When You block rear wheels - front wheels block too. How can You get a control with 4 sliding wheels? Without weight transfer? Very hard! Check link I gave.

Can you apply the handbrake to induce a controlled slide around a hairpin in GT4?

In Rally? No, You cannot You cannot do it at real car too. Sorry but - PHYSICS.

Braking problem? Better check Your car setup or controller. In GT4 You have full control on brakes BIAS and setup. Problem is tire preasure, OK. Just use good Wheel with gas/brake pedals.

About all car setup changing - use SEARCH

Sadly (for itself) RBR is ROCK HARD. It's realistic to the extreme. Make a small error in entry to a turn, and you likely end up with a crippeled car. So hard is this game that it is only really mastered by the really rally hardcore gamers ;-)

The same thing is GT4 Rally driving. Or I got wrong thread? All rumbles here say one thing - GT4 rally driving is HARD. Bingo!

RBR betters GT4 on ALL fronts

Can You proove that? Try! Make a RALLY TECHNIQUES CHALLENGE - RBR&CM vs GT4. Will see then

I think the only problem is missing GTP Rally School
And *** AI of course. But Xlink KAI Evo 8 is coming soon... we can kill AI using online gaming.

 

[TigJackson]

About two foot braking - Yes, You can do it if Your controller can do it(DFP may be? I don't know). I'm using Speedster3 so my gas and brake are on the same Y axis - they are not separated - I cannot use two foot braking.

The same thing is GT4 Rally driving. Or I got wrong thread? All rumbles here say one thing - GT4 rally driving is HARD. Bingo!

If I understand you correctly, you are playing GT4 with the new Fanatec Speedster3 Wheel. What does "two foot braking" mean? With the DFP, you can apply both gas and brake at the same time, and once you learn how to do it properly, this GT4 'rally' mode becomes quite addicting. Are you stating that you cannot apply gas and brake at the same time with the Speedster3 setup?

I haven't looked into this wheel at all because I thought that it was probably more suitable for 4za. I will probably buy both this wheel and 4za when the price drops (considerably) on both, but I might reconsider buying the wheel if it really isn't any good, no matter how much the price drops.

 

[maggkrabar]

If I understand you correctly, you are playing GT4 with the new Fanatec Speedster3 Wheel. What does "two foot braking" mean? With the DFP, you can apply both gas and brake at the same time, and once you learn how to do it properly, this GT4 'rally' mode becomes quite addicting. Are you stating that you cannot apply gas and brake at the same time with the Speedster3 setup?

Correct 👍

Fanatec Speedster 3(mine model) is good wheel but it is connected to DS2 gameport and emulates DS2 one analog - acc->UP, brake->DOWN. In that reason I cannot do brake and gas at the same time - they are on one analog axis. Yes, I can emulate right analog UP for gas and any DS2 button for brake but DS2 buttons have only 3(I think) stages of sensitivity so I cannot get good brake control. I tried - it is bad.

Hand brake in real car(and GT4) - with FF car use hand brake with gas applying. AWD or FR car - apply handbrake with cluching or You will loose engine revs. But in GT we have no clutch. Hand brake on AWD(FR) cars is not my favourite - I prefer weight transfer and sliding friction. On Dirt & Snow it works pretty well

 

[KurtG]

I thought you said that e braking in awd drive car is impossible because of lsd?
Just for the record, im not sure, but i thought that rally drivers could use the e brake with the help of a system that disengages the lsd for the moment when they pull the hand brake.

Thanks to the guy who compared rbr to gt4 by the way.

I agree that the things you mentioned in terms of complex car setup control is better in rbr. Do you agree with these people that are saying gt4 rallying is totally c*ap and not even close to realistic? I would love to get my hands on RBR if i could, but i was just stating that while it might be slightly less realistic in the driving physics department, GT4 is still a pretty accurate rally driving simulater and not the load of poo alot of people were accusing it of being. I totally felt the same way until I actually took the time to learn it.

By the way, if what the guy said about e braking is true than nevermind but (i was under the assumption you could e brake in awd rally cars with the help of a computer managing lsd) how does e braking in gt4 rally not work correctly; should the car end around more quickly or does it end around too violently in your opinion?
Also, about you saying you dont feel the need to left foot brake in gt4 rally, what do you mean by this? Are you saying that the cars in gt4 rallying turn or go into a powerslide too easily and you should need to lfb more? Thanks.

edit: One more thing, can you guys tell me if RBR would run on my relatively c*ap computer. I dont know much about comps but ill give what info i can.

Laptop Presario 2100 mobile AMD athlon xp2400+ 1.79 GHz, 448 MB of RAM.
thanks.

 

[Stian]

Ok, in RBR the cars are 4wd, and I assume ordinary WRC cars have the same feature. Namely the ability to preform handbrake turns on snow and gravel, as well as tarmac. This is accomplished by the center diff releasing the front wheels, so that only the rear wheels lock up. I don't have the links here now (at work), but it is at least not totally arcane knowledge i hope.

As for LFB. Yes, I too can physically put my left foot on the brake pedal at the same time as my right depresses the throttle (I use DFP), but this feature alone does not constitute LFB. When you LFB, you cause a shift in weight towards the front, making them grip better, and simultaniously "lighting" the rear of the car. Thus you achieve oversteer. This weight transfer I feel is poorly executed in GT4. It feels more like just slowing down slightly, and that's not super realistic.

But really, there is no question the physics in GT4 are off generally. Have you preformed any doughnuts lately? Or had the car flip around? In RBR you can. So do you agree (so far) RBR simulates reality better than GT4? ;-)

Anyway, it is hard to compare these two games. One is a full-blown sim, the other is a sim-ish game. GT4 is better looking though.

 

[londor]

In RWD and 4WD cars when you use the hand-brake you have to engage the clutch or you will stall the engine. Because of this you only use the hand-brake for a split second to break traction and then you go hard on the gas to power-slide around the hairpin.

In GT when you use the hand-brake on RWD or 4WD cars the clutch is engaged automatically and is released as soon as you step back on the gas.

The reason why is difficult to make doughnuts on GT4 is because you can not engage the clutch to rev up the engine and not because the physics are not accurate.

 

[KurtG]

So your saying you think its impossible to do donuts in an automatic transmission automobile.....? You must have a clutch to do donuts?.... Im going to strongly dissagree on that one....

 

[londor]

It seems you do not know what difficult and impossible mean. Well, here you go:

Difficult: needing much efford or skill to accomplish, deal with or understand.

Impossible: not able to occur, exist, or be done.

 

[KurtG]

What car are you able to do consistent donuts in with GT4? Ive never been able to do a consistent donut, even with the most ridiculously over powered cars.

I disagree that the lack of a clutch is the reason donuts are so ungodly "difficult" to pull off in gt4. Could you elaborate on the physics of why you think this (your clutch theory) is?

By the way, couldnt you just hold the e brake and rev the engine and then release the e brake to get the effect your talking about? Obviously im not sure of the effect your talking about at all though.

 

[Stian]

I thought you said that e braking in awd drive car is impossible because of lsd?
Just for the record, im not sure, but i thought that rally drivers could use the e brake with the help of a system that disengages the lsd for the moment when they pull the hand brake.

Thanks to the guy who compared rbr to gt4 by the way.

I agree that the things you mentioned in terms of complex car setup control is better in rbr. Do you agree with these people that are saying gt4 rallying is totally c*ap and not even close to realistic? I would love to get my hands on RBR if i could, but i was just stating that while it might be slightly less realistic in the driving physics department, GT4 is still a pretty accurate rally driving simulater and not the load of poo alot of people were accusing it of being. I totally felt the same way until I actually took the time to learn it.

By the way, if what the guy said about e braking is true than nevermind but (i was under the assumption you could e brake in awd rally cars with the help of a computer managing lsd) how does e braking in gt4 rally not work correctly; should the car end around more quickly or does it end around too violently in your opinion?
Also, about you saying you dont feel the need to left foot brake in gt4 rally, what do you mean by this? Are you saying that the cars in gt4 rallying turn or go into a powerslide too easily and you should need to lfb more? Thanks.

edit: One more thing, can you guys tell me if RBR would run on my relatively c*ap computer. I dont know much about comps but ill give what info i can.

Laptop Presario 2100 mobile AMD athlon xp2400+ 1.79 GHz, 448 MB of RAM.
thanks.

Anyone saying you can't preform handbrake turns in awd cars are wrong. Plain and simple. Because of , as you say, the electronic brain of the car manages the differential. However, I don't think LSD is being used. The Limited Slip Differential is just that; limited. The big guys use something a bit more sophisticated. Not sure of the name of it I'm afraid.

About my statement regarding LFB; I don't feel a need to use it, as I don't feel it helps inducing oversteer in the manner it should. Now, it must be said I have not delved into the dirt racing in GT4 too deeply, cause I don't really enjoy it too much. (I have too keep reminding myself it isn't rally. If it was, where is my co-driver, right?) However I discuss these matters more out of my interest for rallying in general. Sort of an academical discussion, if you like.

It is all well and good to "defend" GT4, but please do yourselves the favor of not compromizing your credibility. Saying GT4 is the rulebook, and if reality is not following suite, reality is wrong.... Well, shame on you. Many times you feel reality is taking the back seat in GT4, and it's no point denying it. (Not directed at KurtG btw)

About running RBR on your comp. I'm pretty sure you need a hefty comp to run it. I hear alot of complaints about stuttering gameplay and stuff. In addittion, you need certain types of GFCards. But it is acctually better to buy for ps2. PC version has some modding posibilities and such, but on ps2, it's playable out of the box. And you even get too see water in watepuddles, as the PC ver is missing. But this also ties in with my general feelings towards playing games on PC. Constant upgrading to be able to play the new games and such. Bah and humbug, I say. Better then, to play on a console, and enjoy the latest titles on the age old machine. But I digress...

No I don't agree the driving of GT4 is c*ap, but I'll never agree to it being the Real Driving Simulator either. That title is taken by RBR. GT4 is great fun though.

 

[bringtherain]

I hate when the opponent car hits you and you get the 5 sec. delay
What the frock?

 

[Skant]

What car are you able to do consistent donuts in with GT4? Ive never been able to do a consistent donut, even with the most ridiculously over powered cars.

I disagree that the lack of a clutch is the reason donuts are so ungodly "difficult" to pull off in gt4. Could you elaborate on the physics of why you think this (your clutch theory) is?

By the way, couldnt you just hold the e brake and rev the engine and then release the e brake to get the effect your talking about? Obviously im not sure of the effect your talking about at all though.

Ummm.. lots of cars can do donuts in GT4 quite easily. I don't know what your problem is (unless you're not turning off the traction control). You just need a RWD car with 300hp or more and it's easy. A powerful enough 4WD car can do it, too.

The rediculously overpowered cars can do continuous donuts in 6th gear.

Now... as for the comment about the lack of clutch... he's right about that. Many cars devlop enough force to get the donut started by revving up the engine with the clutch out so that they can store up all the power in the flywheel and then 'pop' the clutch suddenly to transmit it to the wheels. Once the wheels are slipping, it's much easier to keep them slipping... and so a weaker motor can keep the donut going.

As for pressing the ebrake to rev up the engine first, this does work. Your virtual driver still doesn't 'pop' the clutch, but it's usually abrupt enough to get the donut going.

- Skant

 

[KurtG]

Thanks for your reply Stian, and this is just an 'academic' discussion for me as well, mainly cause I really would love to try rally racing someday but a simulator may be as close as i can get to the real thing.
I totally agree that GT4 shouldnt dub itself the "real driving simulator" and its a little hypocritical to do so. I dont know this for a fact but i heard that Kaz himself was bad mouthing Enthusia because its so realistic, and hence so difficult. He accused Konami of forgetting its 'a game' because they made it so hard to control. Again, i havnt read the exact statement, so dont flame me flamers.
By the way, have you played Enthusia or GTR? Ive heard alot of people say the driving physics are both more realistic than GT4. Also, have you ever done any real life rallying or circuit racing, just out of curiosity?

To the guys saying you can do donuts relatively easy in gt4. Im really not sure what your talking about, ive not gotten the super high power cars in gt4 yet but ive tried doing donuts in cars with like up to 430 hp. Maybe your confusing the odd slow circle which takes place when you spin the rear wheels with an actual donut which is where the front wheels barely move and the rear wheels do circles around them while they're not moving. Ive never heard anyone say its possible to do donuts in GT4 so im just asking, not suggesting you dont know what your talking about. Know of any links to vids? Oh, and yah i have all assists off.

 

[Sti04]

Thanks for your reply Stian, and this is just an 'academic' discussion for me as well, mainly cause I really would love to try rally racing someday but a simulator may be as close as i can get to the real thing.
I totally agree that GT4 shouldnt dub itself the "real driving simulator" and its a little hypocritical to do so. I dont know this for a fact but i heard that Kaz himself was bad mouthing Enthusia because its so realistic, and hence so difficult. He accused Konami of forgetting its 'a game' because they made it so hard to control. Again, i havnt read the exact statement, so dont flame me flamers.
By the way, have you played Enthusia or GTR? Ive heard alot of people say the driving physics are both more realistic than GT4. Also, have you ever done any real life rallying or circuit racing, just out of curiosity?

To the guys saying you can do donuts relatively easy in gt4. Im really not sure what your talking about, ive not gotten the super high power cars in gt4 yet but ive tried doing donuts in cars with like up to 430 hp. Maybe your confusing the odd slow circle which takes place when you spin the rear wheels with an actual donut which is where the front wheels barely move and the rear wheels do circles around them while they're not moving. Ive never heard anyone say its possible to do donuts in GT4 so im just asking, not suggesting you dont know what your talking about. Know of any links to vids? Oh, and yah i have all assists off.

Agreed. I personally tried to do donuts in GT games, (complete one) but I've had no success. Cars cant stay at the same spot. My rear will hit the wall by half way. If someone say they can do a complete donut, I have to see for my own eyes to believe.

 

[suzq044]

i can do one in reverse.. but thats about it, even in my 1080hp TVR, i cant get it to do it consistently.. its more like a series of tail-whips..

 

[maggkrabar]

I'm on ... with my bad english

RBR again? OK, just show me any REAL rally technique - dirt, snow, ice or tarmac - used in RBR(with keyboard hehe?!?!?) and I will show You that technique in GT4 rally. I cannot do LFB only - my controller is not compatible for LFB.

But first of all be sure to proove that You're using REAL rally technique in RBR. Because in GT4 I'm using only REAL driving techniques and REALISTIC car suspension & drivetrain setup - I can proove that. Don't try to cheat! We will use car dynamics to check what technique - GT4 or RBR - is close to real life. Challenge? Just try!

donuts? 360-720 degree spin? 90 degree drift? crazy stunts? car acrobatics?
Yes, You can do that in GT4 using car dynamics - that's all. All You need is good WRC(or drift) car and a lot of practice. Check GT4 drift video threads - there are many good examples for that.

Donuts? Sure Look below. Simple side traction demo. No e-brake.
Click here to watch snow stunt

 

[Gabkicks]

i can answer your question easily. I know of at least 1, and there are many more amateur and professional drivers who have played RBR and say it is amazingly close to real life. there is even a video of a professional driver playing rbr with his coodriver. Rallying is pretty unrealistic in gt4, and not as fun as RBR . In GT4, all the same techniques can be applied, but the handbreak is basicly useless because every other technique is faster, there's no damage. and the ammount of steering required is unrealistic. and There are many more realistic tuning options in RBR, along with realistic damage and tire physics. GT4 is way too forgiving to even be compared to RBR. 👎

anyone with half a brain considers Rallying in gt4 to be a joke. more of just an extra feature to play around with.

and low speed traction is extremely unrealistic, which explains the problem with dounuts.

 

[KurtG]

I'm on ... with my bad english

RBR again? OK, just show me any REAL rally technique - dirt, snow, ice or tarmac - used in RBR(with keyboard hehe?!?!?) and I will show You that technique in GT4 rally. I cannot do LFB only - my controller is not compatible for LFB.

But first of all be sure to proove that You're using REAL rally technique in RBR. Because in GT4 I'm using only REAL driving techniques and REALISTIC car suspension & drivetrain setup - I can proove that. Don't try to cheat! We will use car dynamics to check what technique - GT4 or RBR - is close to real life. Challenge? Just try!

donuts? 360-720 degree spin? 90 degree drift? crazy stunts? car acrobatics?
Yes, You can do that in GT4 using car dynamics - that's all. All You need is good WRC(or drift) car and a lot of practice. Check GT4 drift video threads - there are many good examples for that.

Donuts? Sure Look below. Simple side traction demo. No e-brake.
Click here to watch snow stunt

Magg, you can do everything you mentioned in most any racing game, including the ridiculously fake ones. We know you can do all those things, its just the often extremely subtle car reactions we're discussing. Just because you can use the same techniques in a game as real racers do in real life says very little about driving physics realism on the level we are discussing it. I understand what your trying to say, and your right about it, but your not going anywhere near deep enough to make a point about what we are discussing.

 

[Cosmic]

Rallying... I didn't like it in GT3, and I like it even less in GT4... here are a few of the reasons...

1. Half the cars don't handle worth a damn, and they're all pretty much the same power untuned or tuned (300hp/550hp)

2. There are dedicated rally games out there (Colin McRaes spring to mind) that do the handling a hell of a lot better...

3. Why the hell are Pd insisting on making us doing 2/3/5 laps of a lousy track circuit when in the majority of cases RALLYING IS POINT TO POINT! No laps... no going round and round and round in a car that refuses to go around a corner faster than 12 mph (whilst your opponent in an untuned car goes round every corner flawlessly at 3 times the speed, of course). Ye Gods, if Sega GT 2002 could do it, why not PD?!

4. ESCUDO - a car that doesn't go around corners, in a a rallying game where cornering is essential. I rest my case.

And to truly make a joke out of the rallying... half of the tracks weren't even rally tracks... just normal road tracks or race tracks... tsukuba wet anyone?

One last thought - yes I have completed the rallying on every setting, including hard... won every car, and hated every minute. Particularly the ice track which is about as much fun to drive as your average motorway/freeway at rush hour during holiday season...

PD, either do it properly, or don't bother. Currently your rallying is as much fun as having your sinuses scraped with a rusty rake. Do something about it... PLEASE.

Yes I agree.
Properly or don't bother.
The rally part has always been a downside in the series.

 

[mauricio]

Rally is a real frustration!!!! I have been playing it with the logitech Pro wheel drive and it sucks, its very difficult, thus I had to use the dual shock controller to pass the "special Conditions" races, well except for the city ones.....does anyone have these problems wite the wheel???

Iknow these is not the thread to post this: But is the logitech wheel going to be compatible with the PS3???
thanks

 

[maggkrabar]

Magg, you can do everything you mentioned in most any racing game, including the ridiculously fake ones.

KurtG 👍
No, I couldn't. I tried. Try You. You wouldn't too. Not with real techniques. Not with dynamic and side friction physics. RBR may be, but the ridiculously fake ones? Be serious. Don't "cheat"
I tryed CM4&5 - it sucks. I can slide or turn cars WITHOUT any special technique. And that is WRC game?!? HA! I don't know RBR, but all say it is a good one... or they prefer arcade rally games - it is easy? Can You use real techniques in RBR? You can - real driving simulation. Cannot - arcade game. That's all. GT4 special condition driving is hard but not a crap.

Edit: You can drive without real techniques -> arcade game. You cannot drive without real techniques - real driving simulation. Did You see the difference?