Am I the only person who hates the rallying?

[torque998]

If you had made this thread a couple of months ago, I would've agreed with you. However, now I disagree. A lot of people who hate the rallies probably just aren't good enough. I, for instance, hated the rallies when the game first came out. However, as months passed, I got some practice with the licensce tests and now I love the rallying. I also found the perfect weapon for myself: the Mitsubishi CZ-3 Tarmac Rally Car. Try it for yourself and tell me what you think.

Although I think that it ought to be a point to point race *sigh* maybe GT5.

 

[Gabkicks]

Rally is a real frustration!!!! I have been playing it with the logitech Pro wheel drive and it sucks, its very difficult, thus I had to use the dual shock controller to pass the "special Conditions" races, well except for the city ones.....does anyone have these problems wite the wheel???

Iknow these is not the thread to post this: But is the logitech wheel going to be compatible with the PS3???
thanks

... of course it will. the ps3 has at least 4 usb ports. and a crap load of other ports and stuff. It even supports many different types of memory storage other than ps2 memory cards.

 

[Sti04]

... of course it will. the ps3 has at least 4 usb ports. and a crap load of other ports and stuff. It even supports many different types of memory storage other than ps2 memory cards.

Heck yeah, PS3 will be the most powerful game device when it hits the market. Not to talk about its 4G (the highest intel is 3.8G) processor, its disc size equals to 4 PS2 disc. So we might see alot more detailings in GT5 . And it has all these USB ports, Memory Stick duo slots for storage. It's just simplely incredible. Got to have one for sure.

 

[Gabkicks]

more like 6-7 ps2 disks.

 

[maggkrabar]

If you had made this thread a couple of months ago, I would've agreed with you. However, now I disagree. A lot of people who hate the rallies probably just aren't good enough. I, for instance, hated the rallies when the game first came out. However, as months passed, I got some practice with the licensce tests and now I love the rallying. I also found the perfect weapon for myself: the Mitsubishi CZ-3 Tarmac Rally Car. Try it for yourself and tell me what you think.

Although I think that it ought to be a point to point race *sigh* maybe GT5.

👍
Also Peugeot 205 T16, Ford RS200, Renault 5 Maxi Turbo and Lancia Delta S4 - mad group B cars

 

[R5Turbo2]

I love the dirt and snow tracks. Probably because I spent time learning the how tos at several rally driving schools. I also love the asphalt races. It's always racing and trying to do the best with whatever you've got. Understanding what are the strong points and what are the weak points of that driver + car combination, and get the best out of that package under the current track, weather, etc conditions.

I understand why many people don't like these conditions, I've been there before in real life. As a racing and vehicle dynamics addict I had to go try out dirt and snow of course. I was having fun on asphalt I was, for sure, going to have a good time there as well. It turned out that I had fun (an awful lot), but not exactly rightaway as I somehow expected.

Why? Because the less grip you have the more you have to be smooth with the controls, I should say extra-smooth. Driving on low grip surfaces really teaches you how tires work, how vehicle dynamics work and how to use the controls to get the car where you want it to go. It is extremely frustrating at first because you have been used for years to drive with high grip, and then all of a sudden you have to control the same car with barely any grip left. It's no wonder that the first attempts are far from being successful. Everything you're used to is no more valid, you have to learn that being slower is faster, that steering is the lazy guy's job and that the least you do the better it is, that the steering wheel does not steer the car but only gives a hint on where it should go, and that your feet will do most of the steering, etc...

I also understand why going around the low grip tracks with a DFP in 900 degs. mode seems difficult to many people. It's only because they've never been told how to use the steering wheel properly. It's something I learned at a dirt rally driving school, and once I got rid of my bad habits and was able to consistently do it as they said it was like magic. I always knew "where my wheels were" and how to get them straight in just one quick easy spin of the wheel. No more uncontroled lock to lock steering, at most 270 degs, most of the time 180 degs both ways is enough.

Finaly I would say that dirt and snow tracks are more difficult to masterize than asphalt tracks, but are part of the driving experience and therefore they deserve to be part of that game. Don't give up the reward is worth it. As your low grip skills will improve your high grip driving will as well because it only takes more speed on asphalt to get any car to handle like it was on snow.

PhM

 

[kjakan.no]

Richard Burns Rally is nothing like WRC or Colin Macrae Rally. I got the last WRC game and that was just very very bad. Played the to first rallies and put the game up on my shelf. The car moves like it has a axis in the middle of the car, witch the hole car moves around. Hadn`t moved forward in comparison to the last version at all.

I loved WRC II and III, but every rally game I have tried after Richard Burns Rally has just been dull in comparison. I want my next rally game to be better than the old one. If it is not, let me just play another season of Richard Burns Rally on HARD and realistic collisions. (Waiting for RBR2)

My ranking of the most REAL driving simulator: WRC=CMR<<<GT4<RBR

I Love GT4, no doubt, but it has its faults. GT4 is very good at the asphalt part, but not 100% there either. I understand they have to do something with the physics if it should be drivable without a wheel at all. Just hope the next GT game will have a "So realistic that you just want to cry" option. Yes I got the DFP, and every driving game addict should have one.

 

[Stian]

Thanks for your reply Stian, and this is just an 'academic' discussion for me as well, mainly cause I really would love to try rally racing someday but a simulator may be as close as i can get to the real thing.
I totally agree that GT4 shouldnt dub itself the "real driving simulator" and its a little hypocritical to do so. I dont know this for a fact but i heard that Kaz himself was bad mouthing Enthusia because its so realistic, and hence so difficult. He accused Konami of forgetting its 'a game' because they made it so hard to control. Again, i havnt read the exact statement, so dont flame me flamers.
By the way, have you played Enthusia or GTR? Ive heard alot of people say the driving physics are both more realistic than GT4. Also, have you ever done any real life rallying or circuit racing, just out of curiosity?

To the guys saying you can do donuts relatively easy in gt4. Im really not sure what your talking about, ive not gotten the super high power cars in gt4 yet but ive tried doing donuts in cars with like up to 430 hp. Maybe your confusing the odd slow circle which takes place when you spin the rear wheels with an actual donut which is where the front wheels barely move and the rear wheels do circles around them while they're not moving. Ive never heard anyone say its possible to do donuts in GT4 so im just asking, not suggesting you dont know what your talking about. Know of any links to vids? Oh, and yah i have all assists off.

Right, I've been busy with girls and brew, so I haven't been online past days. Basically in a rush now as well, but I'll throw in some words all the same :-)
No, I haven't tested GTR (have heard good things about it too), nor Enthusia. What I know of the latter game is limited though. Mostly seen the tv ads, and it looks decent there at least, but the telly is a notorious liar he he
Sadly I have not rallied for real. It would be sweet, but I recon videogames is as close I'll get to it too. Still, if the game is good... At least we don't have to pay the potentially steep repair cost of real life crashes.

I have picked up some pretty interesting (or, needless, some would say) theoretical knowledge concerning car setup at least. (Ex. This thread
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=64028
about how one would incorporate sway-bar tuning in a car). And any hobby that stimulates learning boring theories can't be all bad he he.

And Maggkrabar; others said it better, so I'll just pop off again for now.

 

[maggkrabar]

...
At least we don't have to pay the potentially steep repair cost of real life crashes.
...

Damn right! I've got some accidents while learning snow drifting on my corolla... ... and now I prefer GT4 driving school
R5Turbo2 great post You did 👍

 

[Klonie Gun]

Ha, I dislike most of the dirt/ice tracks. However, Cathedral Rocks I (the combined tarmac and dirt version) is the only rally track I find entertaining and fun at the same time.

The worst of the rally tracks is Chamonix. Very little traction, icy roads, and long track length are what sums up this rally track.

 

[R5Turbo2]

R5Turbo2 great post You did 👍

Thank you. I've been luckier than you in real life as I never had any major crash when having fun with any of my cars. I hope that you got out of your crashes ok and only had to fix your car.

I'll try to find the time to put the steering technique I learned on a piece of paper and then post it here.

PhM

 

[Ikari_San]

Just thought I'd throw my opinion on top of all this

PS2 Games I play with DFP and how good I think they are:

1. Richard Burns Rally (540 degrees) - best rally sim I've played so far, very difficult though (I can beat Burns on the rally school track, but I'm s#!t at the world stages).

2. GT4 Rallying (900 degrees) - excellent. Much better than GT3. Not sure what you people are *****ing and moaning about, it's great fun, takes a while to master with the DFP, and makes you feel like a pro

3. Colin McRae Rally 04/2005 - were fun to play with the controller when they first came out but with 180 degree steering only they have lost almost all appeal. Physics seem to have gotten more fake and "arcadey" as the CMR series progressed.

4. Colin McRae Rally 3 - fun with the controller but crap with the wheel because of 180 degrees only. I reckon this one has better physics than CM04/2005 though.


That snow stunt is funny, but I'm not sure you could do it with a steering wheel!

 

[KurtG]

R5Turbo- Yea, im looking forward to hearing about your steering wheel control you learned.

 

[maggkrabar]

That snow stunt is funny, but I'm not sure you could do it with a steering wheel!

👍
I did it with Speedster 3 steering wheel - 180 degree.

Thank you. I've been luckier than you in real life as I never had any major crash when having fun with any of my cars. I hope that you got out of your crashes ok and only had to fix your car.

tnx, no major crash to me, only twisted metal...

I'll try to find the time to put the steering technique I learned on a piece of paper and then post it here.

10x !!!

 

[Stian]

Virtual twinky for the guys that pull off proper scandinavian flick's in GT4 then he he

 

[Ikari_San]

👍
I did it with Speedster 3 steering wheel - 180 degree.

Exactly, goes to show how fake 180 degree steering is.

 

[billabob]

its terrible, im not a rally man myself, i can spend hours around monaco but rallying, why o why put this curse on mne, i just cant do it very well at all! 👎

 

[stan394]

I don't like the rally aspects of the GT series all along and really hate the special condition races in the beginning. The 5-second penalty is super annoying. I can kind of understand the philosophy behind that but it gets frustrating very quickly.

But after some grinding, I can proudly say i finish all of the SC hall races! What I learn is, horsepower can only help you up to a certain point. From there on, control is everything. To get from point A to point B at a fastest time, in a rally course, is just a totally different concept than in a tarmac course.

For those who are still frustrated,
- know your car and know the course.
- experiment with different cars, heavy, light, power, quick acceleration, etc.
- Learn to slide your backend out just in case when you really need to hit something, you don't get a 5-second.
- Use Nitrous early to get in front EARLY but don't depend on it for the rest of the course.
- Stay away from the tarmac races for a while so you get accustomed to the rally physics.
- Wall-ride....
- but Don't wall-ride blindly. Try different things. Sometimes using the backend to tap the wall to stablize the car may be more effective than wall-riding all the way.
- Choose your opponent. The level of competition varies by quite a bit. If you don't have success against one particular car, try to restart to get another opponent. Maybe that one works for you.

For me, after not having success with a Subaru Rally car and the Toyota RSC Raid Car, tuned up and down, for power, for acceleration, none works for me. Eventually, I found my car, Dodge Ram. Yes, you may say it's a cheat but the heavy weight sure did to my advantage. I realize I can only manipulate a heavy car.

cheers!

 

[maggkrabar]

Exactly, goes to show how fake 180 degree steering is.

actually, 180 degree steering wheel is closer to real Rally and Racing cars steering wheel than DFP 900 degree-setup -> no fake detected

 

[Gabkicks]

actually... most mid to wrc level WRC cars use 450 degrees of steering at least. which is half of 900... and 180 is less than half of 450 so 900 is actually closer

 

[undrewear]

OK, so here is my problem with the rallying in GT4. I am playing a VIDEO GAME, after doing five laps of Grand Canyon using the DFP, I am sweating. This should not happen.

 

[Gabkicks]

um... maybe you need to spend some time off the couch and out exercising.

 

[maggkrabar]

actually... most mid to wrc level WRC cars use 450 degrees of steering at least. which is half of 900... and 180 is less than half of 450 so 900 is actually closer

👍
actually...
450-180=270
450-900=-450
|-450|>270

 

[Gabkicks]

but 180x2 is 360, and 900 divided by 2 is 450. I guess closer wasnt the right word.. what i mean is any person who's rallied in real life would be more comfortable using 900 than 180

 

[Stian]

Totally. Having 90 degrees turning ability left and right (grand total 180) makes for some über twitchy driving. Bordeline undrivable in my opinion. To make for a more smooth experience, increase steering to 450-ish left and right. (Around 900 then). Acctually you never need to turn the wheel *all* the way round to preform a turn at speed anyway. If you do, you are either mad or dumb. It's just for those turns in and out of the garage (and such) at very low speeds you need to turn the wheel rather far.

 

[UKTopGun]

If I want a simulation rally game I'd go buy Richard Burns Rally, which to be honest makes GT4s realism look like poo.

Yup I hate rallying in GT4 as well, But I love it in Richard Burns Rally, Thats a true hardcore rally game =).

 

[maggkrabar]

To make for a more smooth experience, increase steering to 450-ish left and right. (Around 900 then).

undrewear:
OK, so here is my problem with the rallying in GT4. I am playing a VIDEO GAME, after doing five laps of Grand Canyon using the DFP, I am sweating. This should not happen.

->Rally with 900 DFP.
How will You correct steering polarity(left<->right) a few times(1-2-3) per second with low sensitivity wheel setup? You will need ninjas' hand speed and endurance
The best choice for rally driving is 180-250(full 360-500) degree, not more.

 

[Ikari_San]

Nah, turning the DFP (in the rallying) any more than, say, 450 degrees has little effect on turning your vehicle even more, I don't use much more than maybe 720 (360 to left and 360 to right) during most rallying in GT4.

As for needing "ninjas' hand speed" it's simply not the case as you learn to know where the wheels are pointing and never need to madly steer around in a fluster (this is because you have spent time learning the technique and patience instead of giving up because you are frustrated). You learn to know where you need to correct the steering and it is rarely more than 180 degrees to the left or right. The whole point of rallying is to pre-empt where you need to apply steering, gas and brake because it's all delayed massively.

About RBR - why do you use 540 degrees? 450 is the default, it works quite nicely. I did notice a bit more precision in 540 though, which is what I'm using now. Are you sure the full rotation is halved for WRC cars because a stock Lancer, for eg., uses 1080, half of which is 540, which would make it sensical to use 540. What's the deal? Could someone explain it for me?

 

[undrewear]

um... maybe you need to spend some time off the couch and out exercising.

Couch? I built my own arcade racer with a seat from a 91 civic.

The point is that the rally races suck big time. I beat all of them, but I hated every minute of it. Except for the road rallys. I love those courses.

 

[Gabkicks]

ATTENTION AttENTION!!!

Whoops.. all those times i said 450 i meant to say 540°....

540° or 1.5 ratio seems to be a common steering adjustment for roadcars turned trackcars (drift or race), or rally cars.
...............................................................................................
I agree the rallying isnt exactly fun in GT4 and I hardly ever do it except to progress in the game or get higher A-spec pts.