America - The Official Thread

[FuriousDemon]

Don’t know if it’s a coincidence, but all the latest “topics” that twitter recommends now feature right or far right figures for me.

 

[McLaren]

Posting funny stuff and answering geeky space questions, just like I said in my previous post that you seemed to miss.

Oh, you sweet summer child.


The simping continues to be sweet, astounding, and hilarious, indeed.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Based on your post history. I don't remember you claiming that you no longer support Bernie.

That was a while ago and given my stance on politics I didn't feel the need to update the world on my status.

Edit: time to make this thread disappear. If anyone else wants to berate me, fell free to PM me. Or don't.

 

[Famine]

Don’t know if it’s a coincidence, but all the latest “topics” that twitter recommends now feature right or far right figures for me.

It's not been shy in trying to serve that up to me either - I either click that the trend is harmful/spammy (for all the trans-hate crap, and the like) or that I'm not interested (James Corden). I just got "Proud Boys", which isn't even geographically relevant to be "popular in the UK"...

 

[Danoff]

That was a while ago and given my stance on politics I didn't feel the need to update the world on my status.

 

[GranTurNismo]

If anyone else wants to berate me, fell free to PM me. Or don't.

Calling out hypocrisy and your questionable, to put it kindly, takes when it comes to Elon Musk isn't some kind of ad-hom personal attack.

 

[Joey D]

time to make this thread disappear.

 

[Tornado]

I am well aware. And don't really care.

For months you've interjected yourself into the conversation about Musk buying Twitter. Not last night, when you dived into the shallow end to insist everyone who is dunking on him is just jealous. Months. So evident was it that you "don't really care" that you felt fit to force your way into a discussion when he first tried to weasel out of it, as if everyone else was too stupid to open literally any news site at the time and read about it. Ironically in the process of enlightening people you posted things that were nonsense, but that's neither here nor there. Certainly no one is so stupid as to forget this (nor when you waded into a thread about a war against two countries to defend Musk days after he asked his followers if one of the one invaded should just surrender to the aggressor) no matter your insistence to the contrary.







So the question now becomes are you as much of a fool as you keep acting like everyone else is every time Musk comes up, or are you just a liar? At this point it has to be at least one of them.

Edit: time to make this thread disappear. If anyone else wants to berate me, fell free to PM me. Or don't.

If we're lucky you'll make that extend to the entire rest of the forum.

 

[Scaff]

If you say so.

Musk said so, as such it's really not a point of debate.

 

[McLaren]

That was a while ago and given my stance on politics I didn't feel the need to update the world on my status.

Edit: time to make this thread disappear. If anyone else wants to berate me, fell free to PM me. Or don't.

A man after Musk’s own heart.

You can dish it (“haha, salty tears”) but you can’t take it.

 

[XJ40]

Is this the first time that Elon has made his way into a more established company, and therefore doing things 'his way' is generating more kickback than in a company he has more or less founded?

I will admit I appear to be missing a lot of history and therefore perhaps the bigger picture when it comes to him. But I like the man, and his products, and I can see what he is trying to do. Or I like what he wants me to think he is trying to do.....

 

[Jezza819]

But I like the man, and his products, and I can see what he is trying to do. Or I like what he wants me to think he is trying to do.....

Good, then maybe you can explain it. What is he trying to do?

 

[XJ40]

Good, then maybe you can explain it. What is he trying to do?

The way I see it, having listened to his 3 appearances on the Joe Rogan Show, and watched a documentary on Netflix, and experienced one of his company's cars (Model 3-want) it is to provide sustainable transport solutions, develop this electrical transport tech quickly, and to make us less dependant on fossil fuels.

And occupy Mars.

 

[Liquid]

to provide sustainable transport solutions, develop this electrical transport tech quickly, and to make us less dependant on fossil fuels.

And occupy Mars.

I've got some magic beans to sell to you.

 

[XJ40]

I've got some magic beans to sell to you.

Excellent! I'll take 3, in case the first 2 don't work!

I get it, the man has his doubters that can make their case better than I can. I like the cars, and the man himself. If I could afford a Tesla I would have one. But I wonder about the life stage that Twitter is in, and he appears to have taken control of an established company that he can't exert the control he would like, as easily as he is used to.

 

[Scaff]

The way I see it, having listened to his 3 appearances on the Joe Rogan Show, and watched a documentary on Netflix,

Not the best way to find out everything about him.

and experienced one of his company's cars (Model 3-want)

I'll take an Ioniq 6.

it is to provide sustainable transport solutions

Some of these aren't very sustainable, such as the mess that is the Las Vegas Loop.

Let's also not forget using lower-than-automotive grade components which have a nice habit of not (surprisingly) being fit for purpose. Not to mention some of Tesla's business practices are shady even for the Motor Industry, particularly with regard to second-hand cars.

develop this electrical transport tech quickly

In a company he bought, then had his job title called 'co-founder'

and to make us less dependant on fossil fuels.

On the shoulders of others

And occupy Mars.

Now we are getting closer to it, my view is that Musk does what drives his ego and bank balance.

 

[Jezza819]

The way I see it, having listened to his 3 appearances on the Joe Rogan Show, and watched a documentary on Netflix, and experienced one of his company's cars (Model 3-want) it is to provide sustainable transport solutions, develop this electrical transport tech quickly, and to make us less dependant on fossil fuels.

And occupy Mars.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. What is he trying to do with Twitter? I know about all of his other stuff. But what is the reason he bought Twitter?

 

[CodeRedR51]

For months you've interjected yourself into the conversation about Musk buying Twitter. Not last night, when you dived into the shallow end to insist everyone who is dunking on him is just jealous. Months. So evident was it that you "don't really care" that you felt fit to force your way into a discussion when he first tried to weasel out of it, as if everyone else was too stupid to open literally any news site at the time and read about it. Ironically in the process of enlightening people you posted things that were nonsense, but that's neither here nor there. Certainly no one is so stupid as to forget this (nor when you waded into a thread about a war against two countries to defend Musk days after he asked his followers if one of the one invaded should just surrender to the aggressor) no matter your insistence to the contrary.







So the question now becomes are you as much of a fool as you keep acting like everyone else is every time Musk comes up, or are you just a liar? At this point it has to be at least one of them.


If we're lucky you'll make that extend to the entire rest of the forum.

Have a good life, sir. If you'd like to keep insulting me, feel free to dive head first into my PM's and I can tell you how I really feel. Until then, good riddance. ✌

 

[XJ40]

Not the best way to find out everything about him.


I'll take an Ioniq 6.

Some of these aren't very sustainable, such as the mess that is the Las Vegas Loop.

Let's also not forget using lower-than-automotive grade components which have a nice habit of not (surprisingly) being fit for purpose. Not to mention some of Tesla's business practices are shady even for the Motor Industry, particularly with regard to second-hand cars.

In a company he bought, then had his job title called 'co-founder'

On the shoulders of others

Now we are getting closer to it, my view is that Musk does what drives his ego and bank balance.

I absolutely get all that, and I like the Mercedes EQS above all else at the moment. But I've had experience of the Model 3, and I would really like one.
The Joe Show, I felt asked him the questions I wanted to ask him, and I liked the time and thought he put into his answers.

I don't know why in the world Elon would want Twitter, but now he has it, and I dont really care what he does with it to be honest. It doesnt affect me. I was more curious about him trying to have an input into an already established company. But as @Scaff Pointed out, he has previous for that.

 

[Northstar]

Have a good life, sir. If you'd like to keep insulting me, feel free to dive head first into my PM's and I can tell you how I really feel. Until then, good riddance. ✌

There's few things as certain in life as knowing that the more vocal someone is about leaving, the less likely they are to actually do it. You've already said you are leaving this thread and likely have everyone involved in this conversation on your ignore list, yet here you are replying to people...

If you have such a problem with people, simply stop clicking on "Show Ignored Content" and let the forum's features work as intended.

It doesnt affect me.

But it does, maybe not directly, but it's one of the largest sources of news for people which means it has an insane amount of influence over what gets shared and what gets pushed to the side. Just look at the rise of idiotic conspiracy theories over the last decade which has largely been fueled by social media. Now obviously that's not Elon's fault, but considering he's posted the theories himself it's clear he doesn't have any intention on trying to stop them.

 

[XJ40]

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. What is he trying to do with Twitter? I know about all of his other stuff. But what is the reason he bought Twitter?

Sorry I missed this post, to be honest I should have been clearer about what I meant when I said that I get what he is trying to do. I meant earthly meaningful things.

Umm, I don't know what on earth he is doing trying to do with Twitter.

But it does, maybe not directly, but it's one of the largest sources of news for people which means it has an insane amount of influence over what gets shared and what gets pushed to the side. Just look at the rise of idiotic conspiracy theories over the last decade which has largely been fueled by social media. Now obviously that's not Elon's fault, but considering he's posted the theories himself it's clear he doesn't have any intention on trying to stop them.

Now that is a good point. I don't use Twitter so I thought that was as far as it went for me. But you are right, in that every social platform is a potential soapbox for people to vent their views, and if those views are detrimental to certain people, and they gain traction, then it is an issue.

Happy to be wrong there

Double post. Sorry.....

 

[Tornado]

Have a good life, sir. If you'd like to keep insulting me, feel free to dive head first into my PM's and I can tell you how I really feel. Until then, good riddance. ✌

So a liar, then.

 

[UKMikey]

So a liar, then.

It's a good thing you didn't call him a salty crybaby.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Now that is a good point. I don't use Twitter so I thought that was as far as it went for me. But you are right, in that every social platform is a potential soapbox for people to vent their views, and if those views are detrimental to certain people, and they gain traction, then it is an issue.

Happy to be wrong there

Double post. Sorry.....

It's not like there is some wholly objective black & white truth to Elon Musk, but in my opinion he is not the sort of earth & humanity loving samaritan he portrays to sell electric cars. He identified an enormous addressable market (BEVs) and did what was necessary to...address it. Nobody was going to make electric cars a successful business without the sort of charismatic savant savior character that Elon created - notice that when the market was saturated with Tesla-driving elites that character has largely vanished. There is nobody left to sell Teslas to on virtue signaling alone...enter the Cybertruck and GOP feting. Nothing about Musk prior to Tesla suggested some kind of principled environmentalist, he merely parlayed early successes in financial and web services into ownership stakes in larger and larger established companies. SpaceX is probably the closest to true Elon, I sense genuine passion there, but he frequently uses that brand simply to burnish his own reputation and his other brands. Make no mistake, his acquisition of Twitter was a statement of his extreme wealth and his desire to make himself even more prominent. The way I see it, Elon is not significantly different than Trump in that his primary motivation is to increase the stature of the brand of himself. They both relentlessly pursue self-aggrandization as their primary objective in life, DT via almost completely fabricated business, entertainment, & political storylines and Elon through legitimate but heavily embellished business ventures and nerd mysticism.

 

[Famine]

Elon through legitimate but heavily embellished business ventures

Even "legitimate" is pushing it. Ed Niedermeyer's book ("Ludicrous: The Unvarnished Story of Tesla Motors") is really rather interesting.

Of particular note is the timeline of the Daimler investment and government loan, with Daimler wanting to invest only if the loan was in place and Musk saying it was despite not having actually applied for it yet, then using the Daimler investment to secure the $451m loan - which saved the company.

And Tesla's main sources of income are carbon credits and cryptocurrency (thanks to Musk proselytising about cryptocurrency in full knowledge Tesla had bought a ton of them, driving the price up).

 

[XJ40]

It's not like there is some wholly objective black & white truth to Elon Musk, but in my opinion he is not the sort of earth & humanity loving samaritan he portrays to sell electric cars. He identified an enormous addressable market (BEVs) and did what was necessary to...address it. Nobody was going to make electric cars a successful business without the sort of charismatic savant savior character that Elon created - notice that when the market was saturated with Tesla-driving elites that character has largely vanished. There is nobody left to sell Teslas to on virtue signaling alone...enter the Cybertruck and GOP feting. Nothing about Musk prior to Tesla suggested some kind of principled environmentalist, he merely parlayed early successes in financial and web services into ownership stakes in larger and larger established companies. SpaceX is probably the closest to true Elon, I sense genuine passion there, but he frequently uses that brand simply to burnish his own reputation and his other brands. Make no mistake, his acquisition of Twitter was a statement of his extreme wealth and his desire to make himself even more prominent. The way I see it, Elon is not significantly different than Trump in that his primary motivation is to increase the stature of the brand of himself. They both relentlessly pursue self-aggrandization as their primary objective in life, DT via almost completely fabricated business, entertainment, & political storylines and Elon through legitimate but heavily embellished business ventures and nerd mysticism.

I think Elon got famous by accident, I dont think he has been trying to build a Brand Musk. I agree completely that SpaceX seems to be his true passion. That look of pure excitement when the rocket landed on its feet for the first time made me smile.

He is associated with companies that have done well (Tesla and SpaceX to name two) and now that he has a huge international profile and a giga****ton of money, he seems unsure of what to do with both.

I still like the dude though. He seems genuinely interested in making technology work in a practical way. Whether or not he always had that humanitarian led approach from the start, I don't know. I cant answer that.

 

[Famine]

I think Elon got famous by accident, I dont think he has been trying to build a Brand Musk.

"I'd love to be on the cover of Rolling Stone. That'd be cool." - Elon Musk, to CNN (upon taking delivery of a McLaren F1), 1999

He did, of course, crash it - uninsured - while showing off to Peter Thiel on the way to a meeting about merging Musk's x.com (shortly after the revelation of a massive security vulnerability with x.com wherein you could transfer money to or from any account with an account code and routing number) with Thiel's Confinity which created the PayPal payment system. Thiel wasn't wearing a seatbelt either.

Interestingly the merged company became known as PayPal with Musk as CEO... until the board terminated him and replaced him with Thiel, unhappy with his micromanaging. He kept his stock and made $180m when eBay bought PayPal for $1.5bn.

 

[TexRex]

But it does, maybe not directly, but it's one of the largest sources of news for people which means it has an insane amount of influence over what gets shared and what gets pushed to the side. Just look at the rise of idiotic conspiracy theories over the last decade which has largely been fueled by social media. Now obviously that's not Elon's fault, but considering he's posted the theories himself it's clear he doesn't have any intention on trying to stop them.

I think people credit it much more power than it actually has, and if it has that supposed power post-Musk, it absolutely had that power pre-Musk. It's a media ecosystem and it takes mere clicks to access wildly differing viewpoints. That's not something you get with traditional media.

I also don't think the proportion of those given to conspiratorial thought has meaningfully increased over time, in fact I think it's possible for it to have decreased as absurd notions disappear in a lack of evidence just as spontaneously as they appear. I do think those given to conspiratorial thought may believe in a wider variety of inanity because where they were once kind of on their own or limited to localized groups that share limited viewpoints, they're now able to communicate with far more people people and they bounce absurd notions off of one another.

Fake news (which is to say genuinely false stories rather than factual reporting that some stupid, whiny bitch simply doesn't like) can certainly spread more easily on social media than it could in traditional media because the latter platform wasn't as readily accessible, and people just aren't willing to scrutinize the information they take in unless it validates their worldview. They're certainly not willing to scrutinize information they take in when it's fed to them by ideologues that frequently validate their worldview.

I'm not particularly concerned by Musk's acquisition when it comes to fake news and conspiracy theories, even those he personally and directly helps to propagate, because they aren't founded on reason and so they tend to collapse under minor scrutiny. Sure, some stick around within certain communities, especially when they contribute to othering of disfavored groups.

I'm a little more concerned by propagation of hateful sentiment, not because of any supposed harm in and of itself, but because as it spreads, so does the willingness to perpetrate legitimate harm. But even that concern is tempered by Musk presently exploring revenue streams other than advertising because a successful platform on which hate goes unchecked can't rely on advertising, but we're seeing ideas fall flat because Musk's real talent is likely limited in scope (though he seems to have interpreted his success in very specific fields as a propensity for success regardless of field), and so if he wants his acquisition to succeed, he's probably going to need those advertisers. Because he's probably going to need those advertisers, he's probably going to need to limit the spread of hateful sentiment, and those who viewed him as some kind of savior are probably going to end up eating his face...which makes me happy.

What concerns me most is privacy of users, especially those who may rely on anonymity. Twitter has greatly resisted unmasking efforts under previous management and I just don't know if Musk is going to put up the same kind of fight. Sure there are bad actors with thin skin who may want to venture vexatious litigation against critics, like a certain former congressperson [who went on to represent a Trump-centric social network] and their bovine detractor, but the greater concern is malevolent state actors. Another of Musk's holdings, Tesla, has significant market share in China, an authoritarian state with a propensity to punish critics, and I have to wonder if he's going to risk souring that relationship for someone he doesn't know personally.

Edit: Jeebus. I think I cleaned that up sufficiently.

 

[Imari]

I think Elon got famous by accident, I dont think he has been trying to build a Brand Musk.

Whether that was the original plan, it's certainly his plan now and has been for some time.

...now that he has a huge international profile and a giga****ton of money, he seems unsure of what to do with both.

That's absolutely an act. He presents himself as this bumbling genius engineer, but he's a savvy businessman well aware that because of his massive following anything he says and does affects the markets. He has been in trouble with the SEC a number of times for abusing this.

He seems genuinely interested in making technology work in a practical way.

He does, but he also seems to have pretty limited knowledge of how to go about actually doing that. It's hard to tell how much of his success has been down to just throwing money at problems. He seems to be a decent businessman, as long as you're only judging by amount of money made, but it's not clear that he's anything more than that.

He knows enough engineering to spin ******** for people who don't know engineering and design, and that's what rubs a lot of people who do actually work with technology the wrong way.

His actual talent seems to be hiring the right people, and making sure they have the resources they need in order to get the job done. That's what seems to have happened with SpaceX and early Tesla at least. That's not trivial, because while it sounds simple an enormous amount of CEOs and managers can't even get that right. On the other hand, it's not that complicated either and it's made significantly simpler when you're already enormously wealthy.

A lot of Musk's "talent" was being in the right place at the right time with ready access to significant amounts of money. I'm reticent to give him too much credit for that, and at this point he continues to be "successful" simply because he has more money than God and above a certain wealth level it's basically impossible to fail any direction but up.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Musk's purchase of Twitter will only make it worse, not better. Having a largely unmoderated public forum will lead to more bullying, hate speech, misogyny, fake news and racism. The people who are celebrating this don't understand how cancerous a discussion can become without moderation. Free speech sounds good if everyone can discuss things in a reasonable manner, but that's not the case at all. What I fear is more toxicity and more abusive comments, leading to a mass exodus that will hurt the platform and, more importantly for Musk, PROFITS. If he doesn't pull his head in, Twitter will blow up in his face.