America - The Official Thread
- Thread starter ///M-Spec
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I totally agree, he was like you said entertaining especially if you like conspiracies but now he is just one of the cooks in the chain so to speak. Now when he gets all read and puffy when he does his speeches it just make him look like some sort of far right wing nutjob and it is not funny anymore.
I loved the part when he "sneaked" in and filmed the bohemian groove thingy. It was like, wth do they need to do that kind of things for? not what I expected of elected officials.
Dotini
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I believe in the constitution and want it enforced as written. But, due to corruption (corporate lobbyists) and sloth, the congress has abdicated its constitutional authority to declare war to the executive branch. And all our communications are penetrated - there is no privacy. The individual is emasculated, exploited, and often valued less than a robot.So you believe that your own country is a fascist type of government. What was all that about freedom and US Constitution?
Those usual posters in here say that US Constitution is something sacred that would automatically protect its people from hostile internal/external threats but then some of you you also believe that people in reality have no say in anything at all. Okey... How do you want it
So as it happens, we do live in a sort of fascist arrangement with an alternating smiley liberal/harsh conservative face. By fascist, I specify Mussolini's quip, "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
The right has no monopoly over the left with regard to authoritarian ends and means.
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Danoff
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Like i said...
You are comparing EU against USA. EU is not a country, not for now at least
Your statement doesn't say one nation's constitution is probably very similar to every other nation's constitution. It says it's probably similar to every other Constitution out there. So I don't see how pointing out that the EU is not a country is responsive.
Now, instead of trying to hide behind meaningless distinctions, you can actually address the point... which... since you missed it... is that the US constitution is different, fundamentally, from (at least some) other constitutions.
- 716
again...
A constitution is a declaration of what the citizens are promised(searching for the right word) like freedom of speech, freedom of movements and what you can do and what it is expected by the individual. How different is it from any other constitution? Sure some details here and there are probably a bit different from country to country but on a whole it is the same. And that is why I do not need to read the US Constitution because I know what it entails, because it is a Constitution...
For being able to take part in EU you need to pay a fee and adhere to what EU deems as bare minimum of rights that the country should offer/allow its citizens. It does not hurt if the constitution promises more then that. And to be honest I do not see any problems with the EU constitution.
Danoff
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Before you can understand how the US constitution is different, you need to understand the fundamental difference between rights against your government and rights to your government - which you conflate in your statement above.
Since you think they're all the same, give me 5 examples of national constitutions with an equivalent of the US 10th amendment.
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I actually do not know what you are talking about...
I have not talked what it says in detail, all I have said that it is a "promise" ie a Constitution written by the Founding Fathers of US of A. That can be amended or broken if something happens. If Russia takes over how will it save you? If Trump somehow becomes a dictator either by force or slowly like Hitler did how will it come and save those that blindly believe in the Constitution?
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When I say I do not what you are talking about, I say that you are talking about somehing else that has nothing to do with what I am talking about.. Dont twist stuff... Now I am trying to read about the US 10th amendment.
I like where this is going hehe:
States and local governments have occasionally attempted to assert exemption from various federal regulations, especially in the areas of labor and environmental controls.
And again, some of you are making a strange straw man when I talk about that no Constitution is guaranteed in a crisis. And I am not talking about only US, but all countries in general. What happens if USA is in war and it is state of emergency. Are you still entitled to your rights in the Constitution?
I think many of you here thinks I am just a hater, someone even called me a "troll?" when I just simply talking about human nature and that noone and nothing is above human nature. Every one, at least in the western style countries would behave in the same way. If something would happen everyone would be like a question mark and depend on the state for survival. Or it would be an anarchy like in Mad Max or something like that.
Like I said, A country's constitution is just like a promise to its citizens but it is never guaranteed. And it comes from a dude living in a country where I am allowed more freedom than Americans. I stand by that
Danoff
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When I say I do not what you are talking about, I say that you are talking about somehing else that has nothing to do with what I am talking about.. Dont twist stuff... Now I am trying to read about the US 10th amendment.
I like where this is going hehe:
States and local governments have occasionally attempted to assert exemption from various federal regulations, especially in the areas of labor and environmental controls.
And again, some of you are making a strange straw man when I talk about that no Constitution is guaranteed in a crisis. And I am not talking about only US, but all countries in general. What happens if USA is in war and it is state of emergency. Are you still entitled to your rights in the Constitution?
I think many of you here thinks I am just a hater, someone even called me a "troll?" when I just simply talking about human nature and that noone and nothing is above human nature. Every one, at least in the western style countries would behave in the same way. If something would happen everyone would be like a question mark and depend on the state for survival. Or it would be like in Mad Max or something like that.
Like I said, A country's constitution is just like a promise to its citizens but it is never guaranteed. And it comes from a dude living in a country where I am allowed more freedom than Americans. I stand by that
Stop moving goalpoasts. You said you don't need to read the US constitution because it's the same as any other. Give me 5 examples of other nations that have anything like the 10th amendment. I know that you can't do it for the 2nd, so don't even try.
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haha man that is to much work.
And I do not move any goalposts at all. It is you people that are frantically trying me to read something I dont want to nor have any interest in. Is it not enough to know that it is an constitutions that many in your country believe in like it is something holy? With all right, but it still will not change the fact that if noone is following it will be totally toothless.
Example
It is we the people is it not? So why is it not that only those with money are able to run for the Presidency?
Why is the money such an important factor in American politics(same for rest of the world ofcourse) if it is the land of the free and even you should be able to run for it. And secondly why are you so against the state yet you adore the republican side that often are the ones that restrict the freedom for you and us the most?
Noone is liking when a state is restrictive of anyone's freedom. It is not like we over here in Europe are throwing us infront of the government or its politicians when there is an pudle on the side walk. We rather throw them in it and demand even more rights if possible
It is we the people after all, but there are limitations to our freedom. Example like if our act is harmful to anyone around us, we are after all not the only one living here.. And what do we call that, laws. and you have them over in US too, am I right?
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- 716
I was just making an example and just wanted to talk about it like what happens in extreme situations like during a crisis and the like. Not being forced to learn it.
I have stated what you meant before, If I do not know you and not calling you by your nickname then you is aimed at those in this thread that have pro republican preferences and it means often that it is those that are arguing against what I have said. In other words to those that feels "the shoes fits". There are more than you and I on this forum.
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Be careful about making broad, sweeping declarations like this. The reality is that you're unlikely to ever have this position tested, so I wouldn't take it for granted that the citizenry is willing to die to defend it. Because to be perfectly blunt, the conditions that would need to be met before this was even a possibility require such radical change that society would naturally re-evaluate itself in the face of such change.
Dotini
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Eli Lake, a journalist I rarely agree with, put it well:
“Normally intercepts of U.S. officials and citizens are some of the most tightly held government secrets. This is for good reason. Selectively disclosing details of private conversations monitored by the FBI or NSA gives the permanent state the power to destroy reputations from the cloak of anonymity. This is what police states do.”
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2017/02/14/a-win-for-the-deep-state/
Danoff
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Don't do that, it's really confusing. Just like it's not right to lump everything labeled "Constitution" into one bin, it's also not right to lump a bunch of GTP poster together into a bin and just kinda hand wave at all of us.
What you're trying to do (and by you I mean actually you) is create a layer of unaccountability in your posts such that you can spout whatever nonsense you want and when you get called out on it you can just say "oh, I wasn't talking to you specifically, I was talking only to individuals for whom this statement is appropriate". You should just add that as a disclaimer to all of your posts. I'll write it for you:
"The contents of this message are directed only to individuals for whom the message is appropriate - wherein 'appropriate' is to be determined at any time, without prior notification, at the sole discretion of Phillo-san and can be changed at any time for any suitable reason. Furthermore, Phillo-san reserves the right to ignore, modify, or re-purpose any statements directed at Phillo-san, or anyone else, or initiated by Phillo-san, for any reason, at any time, without regard to context or original intent."
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If a government committed an indiscretion, they don't get to sweep it under the rug of national security. How many times did Trump accuse Clinton of impropriety behaviour during the campaign? He can't complain when his own behaviour is brought to light. Especially when Flynn had contact with the Russians and then lied about it to the administration - if this had stayed buried, it would have given the Russians leverage over Flynn, and how is that in the national interest? The Russians were apparently talking about Flynn being "their man" inside the White House before Trump even took office. If nothing else, publicising the incident marginalises whatever undue influence the Russians had accrued from it.
Trump seems to be intent on running the government like a business, as is his prerogative. But he seems to be unable to comprehend the idea that he is publicly accountable.
Dotini
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Okay fine. But that's NOT my point and my issue here, and you're smart enough to realize that. Flynn's communications were penetrated and leaked by parties unknown (not the public). Is that okay with you? Why? Are you a fascist authoritarian? I'm a libertarian, and never the twain shall meet. Get real, mister, and spill your guts.
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Joey D
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I see the lack of understanding of the Constitution by some hasn't changed, thank the maker for that.
Willy waving contest no doubt. Trump and Putin are more than likely bros so I can't see anything really come of it other than two grown men having a measuring contest with regards to their country's power.
Willy waving contest no doubt. Trump and Putin are more than likely bros so I can't see anything really come of it other than two grown men having a measuring contest with regards to their country's power.
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The sad part is you're so often moving them, you don't even realize it.
Here's a simple example: let's say I've never read anything about Swedish history. I then tell you what I believe to be an accurate re-telling of the country's history. When you attempt to correct the errors in my recounting, I tell you that these corrections are unimportant: I've got a general idea of the history of a few other countries, and all countries are pretty much the same anyway, so Sweden's history is really not any different from, say, Australia's.
Do you see the problem yet?
You are discussing something without knowledge of that thing. You repeatedly justify this with massive generalizations about large groups of people (the military, the entire earthly population), or with ridiculous statements you know are false (unless you'd like to point to a post in here that really has referred to the Constitution as either holy or magical).
Either you're doing this intentionally — so yeah, behaviour in-line with the sort that lives under bridges — or you don't actually realize how erroneous and incredibly ignorant this is. But it's getting increasingly harder to buy the latter.
