An apology to all future generations: Sorry we used up your oil...

[OGLE B]

Iceland to quit using oil:

http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Supppage4338.html

Perhaps we will be able to wean ourselves away from oil, and on to a better source of fuel?

 

[Zardoz]

The Russians are serving notice that they're going to be playing hardball from now on. No more Mister Nice Guy:

Millions in Georgia without heat

Basically, Russia has become an extortionist that is leaning on its victim to keep it in line. Georgia is being roughed up.

This is just blackmail. The Russians are going to be the thugs of the energy industry.

 

[Poverty]

Bring on the nuclear power plants thanks to russia. Theyre too unpredictable.

 

[Zardoz]

Meanwhile, the Nigerian rebels are working on shutting down the nation's oil industry. We'll be sending in Marines pretty soon, now:

Gunmen attack Nigeria oil complex

 

[Zardoz]

The problem, nicely summed up in a consise manner:

Energy gap: Crisis for humanity?

Underlying the growing concern is the relentless pursuit of economic growth, which historically has been tied to energy consumption as closely as a horse is tethered to its cart.

It is a vehicle which cannot continue to speed up indefinitely; it must at some point hit a barrier, of finite supply, unfeasibly high prices or abrupt climate change.

The immediate question is whether the crash comes soon, or whether humanity has time to plan a comfortable way out.

 

[niky]

Iceland to quit using oil:

http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Supppage4338.html

Perhaps we will be able to wean ourselves away from oil, and on to a better source of fuel?

Iceland has vast geothermal resources. The rest of the world doesn't. That's how Iceland can contemplate weaning itself off outside energy resources, because if they tap their geothermal resources to the fullest, it's conceivable that they could survive in isolation for a very long time.

Our country has geothermal plants, but geothermal and hydrolelectric power isn't enough to provide all our power needs.

It's even worse in highly industrialized nations like the US and China.

@Zardoz: we could survive, but there will be a huge recession when the **** finally hits the fan.

 

[FoolKiller]

@Zardoz: we could survive, but there will be a huge recession when the **** finally hits the fan.

Is it "Mission to Mars" that has Tim Robbins and Gary Sinise? Anyway, at the beginning, before the mission launches, they are at a birthday party and everyone has electric cars except one who has a classic Mustang (I think) and when they ask him when he is going to get rid of that antique and donate it to a museum he says something like it is good old internal combustion for him all the way.

I imagine that will be me, even if I have to stockpile in my backyard. Not even the hybrids have that comforting rumble that internal combustion can provide. A powerful car can be sitting idle, but you can tell from the sound that it is powerful, where as I have yet to hear an electric motor sound different than any others.

^Yes, that is me being close-minded, but I guarantee there are many others who feel the same. Most of my friends are in that group.

 

[niky]

Oh, I intend to keep my gasoline car for long after it is economically feasible as a daily appliance, too. In a post-petroleum era, I don't doubt that there will still be enthusiasts driving them around, but for most people, it's going to either be electric or HPV (human powered).

It's an interesting time to be living in.

 

[FoolKiller]

Oh, I intend to keep my gasoline car for long after it is economically feasible as a daily appliance, too. In a post-petroleum era, I don't doubt that there will still be enthusiasts driving them around, but for most people, it's going to either be electric or HPV (human powered).

It's an interesting time to be living in.

I can't wait to see the guy in his "classic Civic" or "classic Kia" with all the teenagers staring at his "cool" car.

 

[Zardoz]

Oh, I intend to keep my gasoline car for long after it is economically feasible as a daily appliance, too. In a post-petroleum era, I don't doubt that there will still be enthusiasts driving them around...

Car buffs will hang on to the classics, but they'll be strictly nostalgic museum pieces. It won't come soon, but eventually, a decade or two or three down the road, there just won't be enough precious gasoline to spare for them.

Nevertheless, they'll be lovingly restored and maintained. Little kids will "ooh and ah" over them.

We'll all miss them terribly...

 

[Kylehnat]

I'll stick my car out on the front lawn, chuck the engine in the ditch, and put it on blocks, right next to my toilet planter-box.

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

Just a reminder of the '06 situ, from the bush/auto thread;

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/27/news/international/pluggedin_fortune/index.htm

 

[Zardoz]

This really makes you wonder what it's going to take to make a difference in the way we think and act:

Pain at the Pump Doesn't Faze New-Car Buyers

What do you think? Will it take $4.00 a gallon? Five? Six? Heck, Brits are paying six a gallon already, so who knows what it will take to really make a difference...

Meanwhile, you-know-who set a new American record for corporate profits:

Exxon Mobil sets profit record

Exxon Mobil Corp. set U.S. records for annual and quarterly profits Monday as it easily topped fourth-quarter earnings forecasts.

The nation's largest oil company reported net income in the fourth quarter of $10.7 billion, or $1.71 a share, compared to $8.4 billion, or $1.30 a share, a year earlier.

 

[Danoff]

With the amount that people b*tch about gas prices, I would expect to see more of a reaction. It just goes to show you that people don't care about it as much as they claim to.

Good for Exxon. I hope they keep it up.

 

[Kylehnat]

This really makes you wonder what it's going to take to make a difference in the way we think and act:

What do you think? Will it take $4.00 a gallon? Five? Six? Heck, Brits are paying six a gallon already, so who knows what it will take to really make a difference...

I think I said before that nobody will change their ways until a fill-up takes a serious bite out of one's pocketbook. I don't like looking at $30 on the pump, but I don't have to go into hock to afford it, either.

Meanwhile, you-know-who set a new American record for corporate profits:

Exxon Mobil Corp. set U.S. records for annual and quarterly profits Monday as it easily topped fourth-quarter earnings forecasts.

The nation's largest oil company reported net income in the fourth quarter of $10.7 billion, or $1.71 a share, compared to $8.4 billion, or $1.30 a share, a year earlier.

I've mixed emotions about this. On the one hand, oil companies are gouging the public. On the other, they're turning massive profits, which means they are likely to hire more chemical engineers, and I need a job

 

[Danoff]

I've mixed emotions about this. On the one hand, oil companies are gouging the public. On the other, they're turning massive profits, which means they are likely to hire more chemical engineers, and I need a job

What do you mean "gouging"? They're charging market value - that's it.

 

[Kylehnat]

You don't make billions of dollars in profit each year by selling your product at market value, especially if that product is said to be "scarce".

 

[Danoff]

You don't make billions of dollars in profit each year by selling your product at market value, especially if that product is said to be "scarce".

So do you think they're selling it BELOW market value? That is quite possible true.

 

[Zardoz]

So do you think they're selling it BELOW market value? That is quite possibly true.

Considering what it has meant to us, and all the things we do with it, and what life would be (and will be...) without it, you could make a case for the above.

We can barely imagine what the market value of a barrel of crude oil is going to be in five, ten, or fifteen years from now.

 

[VIPFREAK]

Exxon Mobil Corp. set U.S. records for annual and quarterly profits Monday as it easily topped fourth-quarter earnings forecasts.

The nation's largest oil company reported net income in the fourth quarter of $10.7 billion, or $1.71 a share, compared to $8.4 billion, or $1.30 a share, a year earlier.

And they were producing less...

 

[FoolKiller]

I think I said before that nobody will change their ways until a fill-up takes a serious bite out of one's pocketbook. I don't like looking at $30 on the pump, but I don't have to go into hock to afford it, either.

Americans have a long way to go before gas prices will truly hurt them. eventually fuel efficiency will play a part, but I figure other sources of excess will be reduced first. No more eating out all three meals and no more Starbucks priced coffee when the coffee pot at home will do the same for $0.25.

Other countries pay much more than we do and live in much less excess. The pain will be taken out elsewhere before it is taken out on our cars. I like driving a lot and enjoy to drive on a curvy back road just for the sake of driving while listening to my favorite music. If I keep getting raises, bonuses, and/or promotions at the current rate every year it won't affect me. If my company changes their merit-based policy then I will be in trouble, but I will probably consider another job then too.

 

[Zardoz]

...No more eating out all three meals and no more Starbucks priced coffee...

Helluva good point. If gas prices go nuts, we'll still need the gas, but there are a lot of other things we can do without. The restaurant industry may really get hit, and those folks with twenty-dollar-a-day Starbucks habits will change their ways out of necessity.

Gas price increases may actually hurt Starbucks.

 

[Danoff]

Helluva good point. If gas prices go nuts, we'll still need the gas, but there are a lot of other things we can do without. The restaurant industry may really get hit, and those folks with twenty-dollar-a-day Starbucks habits will change their ways out of necessity.

Gas price increases may actually hurt Starbucks.

But people will still do what they can to save gas when purchasing a car. It will hurt low mpg vehicles eventually - once the price gets high enough that people care.

 

[Kylehnat]

I would have thought people would have already been turned off to low-mpg vehichles *cough*SUVs*cough* I remember watching a guy fill up an Excursion back when gas was $1.20. It was $60 to fill the damn thing. Now it'd be more like $120. I don't know of anybody who doesn't cringe when they spend $120 on something that has to be purchased every week.

 

[FoolKiller]

I would have thought people would have already been turned off to low-mpg vehichles *cough*SUVs*cough* I remember watching a guy fill up an Excursion back when gas was $1.20. It was $60 to fill the damn thing. Now it'd be more like $120. I don't know of anybody who doesn't cringe when they spend $120 on something that has to be purchased every week.

I wonder if fuel efficiency matters after buying the car but when they go to the dealer they look at what they can afford and then go from there. I know that everyone I know that has recently purchased a car saw what they liked and then checked the price on it. If it was too expensive they went for the next best thing. Never once have I heard them mention fuel efficiency iun the decision making process.

I take that back, one person I know did. My cousin, who is a big tree hugging type, wanted to get a Prius until she looked at the safety rating. She decided that it wasn't good enough and bought something mid-sized instead. So in the end fuel efficiency didn't play into her initial decision. It was a secondary thing for even her. Consider that from a girl who protests everything and everyone and lectures our family on the evils of eating meat and burning oil and it gives you an idea why fuel efficiency is so low on the scale for those who aren't passionate about the topic.

 

[Danoff]

I wonder if fuel efficiency matters after buying the car but when they go to the dealer they look at what they can afford and then go from there. I know that everyone I know that has recently purchased a car saw what they liked and then checked the price on it. If it was too expensive they went for the next best thing. Never once have I heard them mention fuel efficiency iun the decision making process.

I take that back, one person I know did. My cousin, who is a big tree hugging type, wanted to get a Prius until she looked at the safety rating. She decided that it wasn't good enough and bought something mid-sized instead. So in the end fuel efficiency didn't play into her initial decision. It was a secondary thing for even her. Consider that from a girl who protests everything and everyone and lectures our family on the evils of eating meat and burning oil and it gives you an idea why fuel efficiency is so low on the scale for those who aren't passionate about the topic.

That's because people just aren't all that concerned about the price of gas yet. It needs to get quite a bit higher before it becomes a major factor in peoples' decision-making.

 

[Zardoz]

Remember this day.

Today, the President of The United States made his first attempt at waking us from our deep sleep. He whispered in our ear, and began the process of getting us used to the idea of what is coming:

"America is addicted to oil..."

“America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world,” Bush said as he sought to drive the election-year agenda in his annual State of the Union address.

“By applying the talent and technology of America, this country can dramatically improve our environment, move beyond a petroleum-based economy and make our dependence on Middle Eastern oil a thing of the past.”

Yeah, yeah, I know. That's exactly what Jimmy Carter was trying to get through to us knuckleheads 27 years ago. We just weren't ready to listen to his message back then. We were having too much fun. We couldn't take him seriously.

Well, as we all know, the party is almost over. We'll listen this time, won't we? Bet the house on it, folks: We're about to wake up, look around, and realize what is really going on.

 

[DeLoreanBrown]

As to that article, Z, where does george get a figure like 60% of the federal budget in 2030 will be 'entitlements' spending?

Society could be monogramed by then. . .

 

[niky]

I agree that prices aren't quite high enough yet.

You factor in the purchase price of a Prius versus a Corolla (which also gets good pump numbers anyway) and you're not saving anything when it comes down the the monthly numbers.

Diesel is the big thing out here, but the price difference of a diesel car to a gasoline car doesn't quite cover the price difference (similar sized and powered diesel cars cost quite a bit more, because of the turbocharger, particle filters and etc.). I've actually advised some people to buy the gas version of a certain car in order to save money.

_____

As for the article... finally, some wisdom? I hope that if he stays in Iraq, he vows to put more people on the ground with more equipment... settle the insurgency once and for all. I hope Congress doesn't draw it out into a Vietnamesque "keep the status quo till we're thoroughly smashed and demoralized". Don't keep the boys sitting down waiting to get attacked, take them on a damn offensive.

Wonder how he's going to put the oil thing into policy, though? Lower taxes on smaller cars? Bigger guzzler tax?

 

[FoolKiller]

That's because people just aren't all that concerned about the price of gas yet. It needs to get quite a bit higher before it becomes a major factor in peoples' decision-making.

My cousin wasn't concerned about the price of gas, she was wanting to save the Earth. Apparently saving her own life was more important than saving the Earth.