An open letter to Kaz and Polyphony

[BigSarj]

As long as they support the PS5 version, basically. At least with major changes/additions, any way.

Don't get me wrong I think the game should have been PS5 exclusive, but as I say, they've made their decision and they made no concessions around launch to suggest the PS4 version would be a lesser-supported legacy version. Some devs have done that. As far as consumers know they're the same product on different platforms and they should expect the same support for both.

But again, there are a ton of games out there that won't work on the hardware minimum requirements they launched with. Should this be any different because it's a console?

I'm not suggesting they completely stop updating the PS4 version; if they want to adhere to what what was advertised on the back of the box, then keep updating the cars and tracks and keep the peer to peer lobbies intact.

Allowing the game, in a year or two, to grow its wings on PS5 would make more people happy than disappointed. I can imagine some entitled people in 2027 complaining about how their PS4 game isn't as good as the PS5 version.

 

[watto79]

They won’t though because there are no ps5 in stock anywhere

Availability comes and goes. Keep an eye on this website. BT Shop currently have some bundles available.

https://www.stockinformer.co.uk/checker-ps5-playstation-5-console

 

[NikNakTobasco]

It’s really not that hard. Just use a stock checker and you’ll get one in a week.

 

[Samus]

Eventually, assuming GT7 last a few years, they will probably drop the PS4 version. It's not unprecedented, both Destiny 1 and GTAV for example dropped their last-gen support after some time. 4 months is way too early for that though.

Sure, but this game isn't expected to be supported anywhere near as long as GTAV though. I'm sure it'll be the usual story of about 18 months to 2 years of strong updates and then about 9 months of minor additions/fixes. They're not going to be supporting either platform in 4 years, heck it might be even less.

But again, there are a ton of games out there that won't work on the hardware minimum requirements they launched with. Should this be any different because it's a console?

I'm not suggesting they completely stop updating the PS4 version; if they want to adhere to what what was advertised on the back of the box, then keep updating the cars and tracks and keep the peer to peer lobbies intact.

Allowing the game, in a year or two, to grow its wings on PS5 would make more people happy than disappointed. I can imagine some entitled people in 2027 complaining about how their PS4 game isn't as good as the PS5 version.

As above, I don't see this game being properly supported even on PS5 any further than late 2024, beyond that only minor tweaks/additions of single cars because the manufacturer paid them.

I think what is more likely is that PD push out GT8 far sooner than they would have, on PS5 only of course, and that would then be a way to transition over without alienating anyone. It'd basically just continue GT7 updates with another name and PS5 only.

Holiday 2024 we could see GT8, another incremental update of a game.

 

[BigSarj]

Sure, but this game isn't expected to be supported anywhere near as long as GTAV though. I'm sure it'll be the usual story of about 18 months to 2 years of strong updates and then about 9 months of minor additions/fixes. They're not going to be supporting either platform in 4 years, heck it might be even less.

As above, I don't see this game being properly supported even on PS5 any further than late 2024, beyond that only minor tweaks/additions of single cars because the manufacturer paid them.

I think what is more likely is that PD push out GT8 far sooner than they would have, on PS5 only of course, and that would then be a way to transition over without alienating anyone. It'd basically just continue GT7 updates with another name and PS5 only.

Holiday 2024 we could see GT8, another incremental update of a game.

It's certainly possible that Jim wants to milk the cash cow franchise in their barn and I'd be fine with that if it meant an improved experience in a couple of years.

But I haven't heard any recent news of a new office space for PD or a satellite studio being built in Europe. Pair that with PD not exactly having a reputation of efficiency like Insomniac, I'm not too hopeful.

You're right that a couple of years might be too long for the transition, which further reinforces my hope that they minimize support for the PS4 version sooner rather than later.

 

[Jewel Runner]

It might also be a little bit of a problem that Kaz never bothered to learn English to a level where he doesn't need to rely on trusty Translator-san all the time. However that also shows (to me) that his whole "bubble" is in Japan or at least Japanese-speaking and while they also have their issues with the game I don't think they go as far as review-bombing (or bonging?) the game, question his right of existance within SIE and PD or call him names on social media.

Correct. It has been said many many times and this is a large part of the cause of GT games getting worse in major areas of the game. That's not to say that non Japanese companies get things right all the time, but it's quite clear this is the case at PD.

 

[Matt atkins]

Availability comes and goes. Keep an eye on this website. BT Shop currently have some bundles available.

https://www.stockinformer.co.uk/checker-ps5-playstation-5-console

Okay thanks

 

[les_expos]

The ps5, the f1 sf1000wheel, new real cars or any fanatec bundles are hard to find since 2020. The shortage problem is annoying and there seem to have 0 solution.

 

[Redneckchef]

So let me get this straight:

A Streamer who uses their game to attempt to provide a living for his family is upset. He writes a letter to the CEO of PD to outline the issues he has and wants to go meet him in person to address them?

So it's a PR stunt to boost his channel. Lovely.

I can openly say that I admit those problems are there and they are very frustrating. It is important to remember that at the time he wrote that letter ALL of the issues he mentioned were listed in PD's own Known Issues log as well as many issues that affect a greater part of the community than sport mode people and streamers. I appreciate the frustration he is feeling as he made a gamble that he could make a living streaming this game and it's failing through issues out of his control.

But be serious, PD were always going to put this in with every other bug report including the ones from their community feedback group and treat it like everyone else's complaints. The fact that he didn't highlight a single new issue or propose a solution to anything tells me further it was a PR stunt. But well done.

I do want lobbies fixed, I want connections stable and I want more adventurous Dailies but unlike Mr. Streamer I am fully aware that all those things are being addressed and that there isn't special consideration because I talk at a camera for a living.

End of line

 

[NAXEHT]

As long as they support the PS5 version, basically. At least with major changes/additions, any way.

Don't get me wrong I think the game should have been PS5 exclusive, but as I say, they've made their decision and they made no concessions around launch to suggest the PS4 version would be a lesser-supported legacy version. Some devs have done that. As far as consumers know they're the same product on different platforms and they should expect the same support for both.

Well, we agree that it should have been a PS5 exclusive at least.

If I was only playing GT7 on a PS4 I honestly wouldn’t expect updates to go on as long as the PS5 counterpart. A while, sure. But as long? Maybe I’m wrong but to me that just seems naïve.

 

[Daz555]

Well, we agree that it should have been a PS5 exclusive at least.

If I was only playing GT7 on a PS4 I honestly wouldn’t expect updates to go on as long as the PS5 counterpart. A while, sure. But as long? Maybe I’m wrong but to me that just seems naïve.

As the two bases play together in the same servers much of the code will have to be maintained at the same level. The only way that can change is if Sony end of life the PS4 version of the game before the PS5 version which would be a very difficult message to handle.

I do agree GT7 should have been PS5 only. Cross platform support has held the game back.

 

[sonnyboychris]

not if we vote with our money .. im 100% sure atleast 50% of player base now wont buy gt8 on release if we keep paying them blindly nothing will change for sure

I won't touch GT8 until at least 3 months after release, I've learned my lesson with them. My money will be going elsewhere until they get their sht together.

 

[Voodoovaj]

But again, there are a ton of games out there that won't work on the hardware minimum requirements they launched with. Should this be any different because it's a console?

But the PS5 version is built off the PS4 version. The game is the same engine as GtSport, which was the same engine as GT6. The PS5 loads faster, has some better shaders, but the game is essentially the same. In fact, reading posts from PS5 users, it seems the PS5 version is the one with frame rate issues. I haven't seen many issues on my PS4, so the idea that the PS4 is somehow a problem for the PS5 version seems strange.

Even when it comes to the P2P situation, there should not be an issue. Playstations have had variations throughout the years. Remember the PS3 with SSD update? Those didn't cause connection issues.

P2P is just sending packets back and forth. The Host isn't rendering for the other or running their physics. The game is running locally on the client, so it shouldn't make a difference.

I'm not suggesting they completely stop updating the PS4 version; if they want to adhere to what what was advertised on the back of the box, then keep updating the cars and tracks and keep the peer to peer lobbies intact.

Again, there is an assumption here that has not been confirmed. There have been many, many, many, many issues with connections over the years and differences in the consoles was a non factor. Lobbies issues existed on PS3 and PS4. Given the history, it seems it's their P2P code, or some more generic issue, rather than the differences with PS4 and PS5.

Allowing the game, in a year or two, to grow its wings on PS5 would make more people happy than disappointed.

..that is, if you unnecessarily spent the extra money for a PS5...for the PS4 people, they'll be super disappointed. Many, like myself, question if an upgrade was even worth it.

I can imagine some entitled people in 2027 complaining about how their PS4 game isn't as good as the PS5 version.

Or PS5 people complaining that the PS4 is the cause of the issues. It goes both ways, and really, if they do support it for that long, why wouldn't the PS4 version be "as good"? Again, the basics of the game won't change. They won't update the graphics engine, or overhaul the physics within the game iteration of the game. The major components are fixed for the duration of the game (aside from minor tweaks).


Given the situation though (PS5 scarcity, etc, etc) it may be that we see a very short iteration cycle this time around. Maybe GT8 will come in late 2024 or early 2025. Still, I'll hold off on buying it, or the PS5, until a few months of impressions are in. GT7 has left a bad taste.

 

[Nuschel01]

Even king of questionalbe decisions Rockstar figured that crossplay between PS4 and PS5 would cause issues and thus doesn't allow it.
And saying that GT7 is basically GT6 is also quite far fetched, isn't it?

 

[Samus]

Even king of questionalbe decisions Rockstar figured that crossplay between PS4 and PS5 would cause issues and thus doesn't allow it.
And saying that GT7 is basically GT6 is also quite far fetched, isn't it?

He said it's the same engine. Which it is. PD made no claims of a new engine for GTS.

 

[BigSarj]

Again, the basics of the game won't change. They won't update the graphics engine, or overhaul the physics within the game iteration of the game. The major components are fixed for the duration of the game (aside from minor tweaks).

But my point is that them changing, or rather, evolving one of these could be a possibility. Indeed a very far fetched possibility. I may as well hope to win the lottery; I know.

I suppose a native PS5 version of the next game in two years could happen but I actually have less faith in that, given the studio's output history.

Unless GT7 is what it sometimes feels like: a stopgap. It'd be nice if they had half the studio working on the next game. Or, better yet, they are working hard on this game because it seems pretty obvious to me that it was released too early. Maybe changes will come.

 

[Voodoovaj]

But my point is that them changing, or rather, evolving one of these could be a possibility. Indeed a very far fetched possibility. I may as well hope to win the lottery; I know.

I suppose a native PS5 version of the next game in two years could happen but I actually have less faith in that, given the studio's output history.

"Native" PS5?

I could be totally wrong, but I don't believe that there is much of a port happening. We're seeing the law of diminishing returns.

And as far as the cross gen network goes, the PS4 does remote play. It sends packets with video information to other devices. I can load a track and play on my phone if I want. No technical issues. P2P for lobbies should be far less complicated because it's sending less information and both machines are robust. I have my doubts that cross gen is purely to blame.

Unless GT7 is what it sometimes feels like: a stopgap. It'd be nice if they had half the studio working on the next game. Or, better yet, they are working hard on this game because it seems pretty obvious to me that it was released too early. Maybe changes will come.

Everyone says that, but there is no reason to believe it.

They make content as they go, the cars are outsourced, and likely have been for some time. There is no reason to believe this game has come any earlier than necessary.

There wasn't something promised that wasn't delivered. There's features that were functioning that have been removed. Why? Not sure, but when something is released too early, it's usually something new that's broken.

 

[BigSarj]

"Native" PS5?

You may have misunderstood me. I was referring to our speculation of GT8 on PS5 in a couple of years.

As for whether GT7 released early or not, I thought it was pretty obvious it had released early. Many of the cars were nearly impossible to drive at breakneck pace, lobbies are nowhere near the quality they were in GT Sport, and I refuse to believe FFB is going to be left in this state. It's almost as if the game was barely tested in the thing that matters most - gameplay. They've been adding little bits of improvements here and there, per every update.

It really does remind me of Siege, which is the ultimate redemption story in recent memory, as far as I know. If this truly is a GaaS, then I pray PD can follow a similar path. The bones are there, as they were with Siege.

 

[Voodoovaj]

You may have misunderstood me. I was referring to our speculation of GT8 on PS5 in a couple of years.

Ahh... Yes, I agree. I think GT8 will be PS5 only and it will come sooner than the others have come... UNLESSSSS... Like GTSport, GT7 sells well year upon year and PS5 sales are strong. Even if PS4 dales remain strong, it might be a while.

Sony is all about the lowest investment for the maximum return.

As for whether GT7 released early or not, I thought it was pretty obvious it had released early. Many of the cars were nearly impossible to drive at breakneck pace, lobbies are nowhere near the quality they were in GT Sport, and I refuse to believe FFB is going to be left in this state. It's almost as if the game was barely tested in the thing that matters most - gameplay. They've been adding little bits of improvements here and there, per every update.

That's been their way since GT5. In GT6, many of the VGTs were nearly undriveable. Again, why I hold to the belief that PD is actually a very small core team and has been for some time.

I think this works for them. The faithful rush to buy it out of the gate. Others wait. The sales are more constant. Who knows the truth?

 

[GTxForza]

He said it's the same engine. Which it is. PD made no claims of a new engine for GTS.

Because this is the way for the developer to reduce the cost of developing Gran Turismo Sport & 7.

 

[Matt atkins]

Well, we agree that it should have been a PS5 exclusive at least.

If I was only playing GT7 on a PS4 I honestly wouldn’t expect updates to go on as long as the PS5 counterpart. A while, sure. But as long? Maybe I’m wrong but to me that just seems naïve.

Yes but ps5 is very scarees at the moment so PlayStation 4 will have to be supported

 

[Voodoovaj]

Because this is the way for the developer to reduce the cost of developing Gran Turismo Sport & 7.

Again, and never forget, PD is not a developer with a limited budget. PD is Sony. Sony is PD. They are just a team within Sony.

It's easy to feel bad for them and give them a break because other developers struggle as private companies., but Sony is a massive corporation and PlayStation is their best business. They could double the budget of GT in a heartbeat and not bat an eye.