An open letter to those that are better.
- Thread starter jrbabbitt
- 134 comments
- 9,011 views
- 1,110
- Portland, OR
- Live25
That’s called a zipper merge and is largely considered by traffic engineers as a better solution than a lane being empty for 3 miles whilst another backs up for 10…There's a good chance that they're the people that skip the line up of cars irl to merge into an exit lane at the last second
- 3,816
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Actually, what @cjsrt4 is saying actually plays out in reality as well. Most of the problems IRL come from the least experienced people on the track. At the amateur level, this is totally true. If you watch enough feeder league racing, then you can see it.
I've seen it in Sport Mode as well. Anyone who has had the misfortune of being bumped down into the C and B levels has seen it. People drive like it's single player. They make contact and don't care.
jrbabbitt
Premium
- 2,850
- Charleston, SC
- TCR_JimyBee
Far from the point, what I am looking for is POSITIVE responses, not the type that is negative to the situation or the author, I said what I said because you stated "I have stopped racing online for this exact reason and do not see PD rectifying it any time or any game version for that matter in the near future." and therefore I believed that what was being said was negative and not contributing positively to the situation. If I offended, sorry.
Funny thing about your statement above, yes I do defend my line, I do drive in middle of track as the "line" dictates, I do not block others from passing by moving side to side like I've seen, when I'm about to be passed I do not fight it I let them go and then try to stick close to see if I can pass him in return. If someone dives in the apex to pass, let him go, he probably has too much speed and slide off turn anyway.
As stated in OP, I'm about average maybe slight above average, not a 3 second a lap behind, but doing my best that I can. Currently in a low B rating
- 203
- Glasgow
- ZFS_Barron
My final 2 cents on this. If i do end up behind a much slower/lower ranked driver I'll always try and pass as cleanly as possible, and in theory i should be able to do this easily, some though defend like their life depends on it, to the point where i have no idea what line they are gonna take, or if i try and make an overtake i'll just get pushed off the track.......you could say that's just racing. But I never want to ruin anyone else's race so I'll usually just er on the side of caution.
- 320
- Michigan
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
What you're describing is perfectly fine when racing. If you think you're fast enough to keep your position, then by all means, defend it. None of my rants were about how I think you drive personally. I made the comment about the GT7 group on FB because that's what 90% of the posts end up being. It's a situation being taken out of context, and without video proof, there's really no way to prove who was right or wrong. I was mainly chiming in on how you called racers "privileged" for being "better". Trust me, if someone takes you out of the race when you clearly know how to race, understand the rules and try to race fair, then they are not better than you are. Acting privileged is probably accurate for some cases. My experience with Sport mode has been some pretty extreme cases with horrible drivers. Even with decent DR and SR ratings.
- 59
- Montreal
- JavaTheNutt
- 1,110
- Portland, OR
- Live25
Oh after the line is completely unacceptable and nothing pisses me off more than when people let them in. THAT is super-dangerous!
- 13,887
- Adelaide
- Neomone
People are entitled to choose their line if they're ahead. If they choose the middle of the track and that makes it difficult for you, too bad. Good defense should make you feel like you're blocked from passing, and that's sort of the point of defense. If it wasn't stopping you from passing where you otherwise would, there would be no point in defending.
If people are straight up running you off the road that's bad and they shouldn't, but you can't fault people for taking non-standard defensive lines to try and finish ahead of you in a race. That's racing. Git gud.
- 1,911
- London
- DEAD_DULLAH123
- hyperspeed980
- 320
- Michigan
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
You guys keep comparing real life situations where everyone on the track is experienced vs the Sport mode public lobby where most of the racers are not. I understand that if somebody is racing at a similar pace as me, I'm going to have some trouble making a pass. I'll take that as defense. However, the moron that's simply just cruising in the middle lane for the sole purpose of not letting anybody pass, is not defense. If you're going to drive like that at that skill level, be prepared for some aggressive drivers. It's the whole point I was making earlier. The whole "YoU nEeD tO gEt SoMe SkIlL" responses are just comical....
- 13,887
- Adelaide
- Neomone
So you're saying they're much slower than you and they're "cruising" in the middle of the track, but you're still having trouble passing them?
Yeah, definitely not a skill level thing. Polyphony really need to nerf that middle of the track advantage, it's just unfair. I apologise profusely for suggesting that you need to git gud, nobody can be reasonably expected to go cleanly around another driver who has that sort of tactical high ground without pulling "aggressive" moves. It's just not possible.
- 320
- Michigan
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
I'm sorry your awesomeness. I'll go back and re-evaluate the way I race. Maybe we'll see each other online and I can take some notes as you blow by the competition of all skill levels. The fact that you act like passing someone when they are in the middle of the track is the easiest task is just ignorant. Not every track is as wide as Daytona and in a lot of cases, very difficult to do without contact. Some tracks are only designed for 2 cars side by side, and when some ones in the middle of that track, you have 2 options. Go off track to pass or make contact.
- 59
- Montreal
- JavaTheNutt
Are we talking Zandvoort levels of narrow? I don't play GT7 so I might not know which tracks you're referring to. Usually stubborn defending can be solved with backing off a little for the next corner to get good exit speed and pass them on the straight. If they're moving on the straight to squeeze you off track then that's a problem.
- 613
- United Kingdom
Not sure banger racing / demolition derby is really relevant here.
I was in a race the other night, in a public lobby, and one particular driver was clearly slower than me (in overall per-lap pace) but he was like some kind of Jedi when it came to defensive driving. It was completely infuriating but also completely awe inspiring. Rather than being mad I congratulated them on some of the most pixel perfect defensive, and clean while doing so, driving I'd ever seen.
There is absolutely no such thing as a "middle lane" on race track. Similarly there is no such thing as an inside/outside "line" on a race track. There is an "optimal" line but you're no more entitled to take, or have the expectation to be allowed to take, that than anyone else. The only bit of track you are entitled to is the bit directly beneath the footprint of the vehicle you're driving. As long as someone is not driving in a dangerous manner (like weaving or last second physical blocking) they are entitled to occupy any unoccupied part of the track that they wish, if thats an inconvience to you then so be it, the onus is on you to get around your opponent, not them give way to you.
By the way, there are two types of aggressive driving; "aggressive" and "overly aggressive". One is generally making a nuisance of yourself to force an opponent into making an error ("Hi, I'm in this mirror. Now I'm in this mirror. Am I going to try to out-brake you? Am I going to try the old switcheroo? Am I going to try to hang round the outside? Who knows? Oh, hello, I'm in this mirror again!"), the other is physically forcing your way through because of an over-inflated ego and sense of entitlement ("Oops, did I accidentally nudge you off the track? Oh, I'm terribly sorry, I didn't do it on purpose, honest. Well, it was your own fault anyway... byeeeeeeee").
Judging by your posts in this thread I know, with 100% certainty, which spectrum of "aggressive" you fall into.
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- 320
- Michigan
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
Bathusrt is a very narrow track, and the amount of technical corners make it difficult to pass clean, if some ones driving in the middle. What makes me laugh is the fact that people are acting like this never happens to them online, and that they are so much more skilled that they just simply overtake them in any situation.
I've stated in previous posts that I don't push anybody off track. I do everything in my power to not make contact while racing. The average racer online that occupies whatever part of the track they want and has no consideration for anybody faster that is behind them, are the people complaining that they got taken out of the race. That's the problem I have with it. If I know I'm beat and can't shake the guy behind me after a few corners or even a lap, I will gladly get out of the way. Not everybody races online to get a podium spot, let alone the win. Some people just like to race against real people.
- 59
- Montreal
- JavaTheNutt
Oh ya. Bathurst is definitely one of those tracks.
In any case, when you're the slower driver, sometimes the best thing to do is to let the faster driver past so that you lose less time defending which might prevent others from catching up. I guess it doesn't really apply in the GT7 races as I remember reading a post that they're 8-10 minutes long.
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- 320
- Michigan
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
This is exactly why there are so many bad experiences in Sport mode. You get 3-4 laps to do a race, and most people try to fly to the front on turn 1. It's not always bad. I'm just giving some of my worst experiences with Sport mode.
- 59
- Montreal
- JavaTheNutt
Short races like that will definitely promote more reckless driving whether coming from those backing up the field or those with pace. Although convenient (Sport mode), I'd recommend looking for the longer races; people are naturally more committed.
I think people simply took issue with the way you worded your initial reply to the thread.
- 1,306
- Canada
Wombleleader actually made a video calling out overly aggressive last to first type drivers so he should get some credit.
- 613
- United Kingdom
Fire to pants ratio: high.
Well, you clearly don't do everything, because you've already admitted to making contact.
Unless someone is a lap down (or in a lower class vehicle in a multi-class race) the only consideration any driver has is to their own strategy (if applicable). If someone can hold you off, by whatever legal means, without compromising their own strategy (if applicable) then that is just as much a part of racing as anything else. You may think you're faster over one lap but that counts for nought if you can't get past the person in front.
Furthermore, there are no tracks in GT that are impossible to pass on. None. Every single track has an area where its possible to make a pass if you set yourself up for it, especially if someone is taking a highly compromised line to try and hold you off. But you aren't doing that, are you? Instead of setting yourself up for a better exit out of a corner you are, as you've re-iterated time and time again, "riding someones bumper".
Ignoring the fact that I don't think any track in GT is less than three Gr.3/Gr.2 cars wide (admittedly the margins may be very tight), lets take the most extreme example of Tokyo Expressway Central Outer Course. The "back straight", after the first tunnel section, is wider than the rest of the track and a prime opportunity to pass. If you're "riding the bumper" of the car in front through the corner leading to the back straight you'll never build up enough steam to take advantage of the extra width. However, if you drop back enough so that their compromised apex and exit speed doesn't impact you then you can breeze past them on the back straight. But I get the feeling I already know your type by use of the phrase "riding someones bumper"; you'll sit and sit and sit on someones ass, expecting them to make a mistake, and if they don't you'll justify any contact as "iT wAs tHeIr/YoU'rE fAuLt", intelligent racing doesn't even enter into it.
Sitting dead centre of a narrow track is as much a legitimate tactic to winning a race as being fast is. Many drivers, IRL and virtual, have employed it to win races and will do so in the future; you work with what you've got, not what you wish you had.
Then you're not really racing, are you? You're just hot-lapping with others on the track. Go do a time trial and stop occupying a slot which could be occupied by someone who actually wants to race.
Given the competition in any particular race not everybody is capable of winning a race but, again, if you're going into a race without the intention of having as many people as possible finish behind you then you're not really racing.
- 2,429
- The failed experiment entitled “California”.
A lot of cherry-picking going on in this post. You seem like a smart enough person to know what this guy, and others of his mindset are saying
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- 824
- United States
Outsider perspective here after reading OP. As someone who rarely races randoms in online multiplayer, it sounds a lot like people online are very similar to the AI in single player. I have all the same encounters with AI where they will take the line they’ve decided to take no matter what is going on around them. It’s as if they’re oblivious to their surroundings and on the track by themselves with no knowledge of etiquette. AI commonly invades my line, cuts me off, sideswipes me and sometimes pushes me off the track in turns because they come in too hot and hit me. It’s like AI doesn’t know or care there are other cars on the track and that’s how people race online from what I gather.
Now that I think about it, PD actually did a great job with their AI as its very realistic to what actual humans race like in the game.
Now that I think about it, PD actually did a great job with their AI as its very realistic to what actual humans race like in the game.
- 320
- Michigan
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
Where did I admit to making contact? I said in a previous post that in most cases if you're going for a pass, then you have 2 options and one of them is contact. Keep reaching bud.
It's called sportsmanship. You should try it. If more people stopping thinking that they are a GOD at a video game, it wouldn't ruin the fun for everyone else. Deliberately blocking just leads to conflict most of the time. Admitting you're beat and letting someone else who is faster get by to potentially win, is taking the high ground. Remember, it's still a video game. There's no prize money at the end of a Sport Lobby.
- 613
- United Kingdom
The post I was quoting was quoted almost verbatim, odd definition of "cherry-picking" that is.
Umm...
You can try to dress it up all you like but it doesn't take Columbo to figure out what you mean by "heavily aggressive / aggressively". I have no doubt many of us have encountered your type far too many times to recall individually; you don't intend to send someone into the dirt/wall but your ego just can't comprehend that someone, whom you deem not worthy of being in front of you, dares to be doing a bloody good job of keeping you at bay and, if by 3 or 4 corners they haven't let you past, they someonehow magically end up in the dirt/wall but its totally their fault and you'll kick and scream and protest your innocence despite everyone else having eyes. You're all the same; the same excuses, the same justifications, the same speed over intelligence attitude.
Maybe, just maybe, there's a reason almost everybody disagrees with you.
Thats probably the first sensible thing you've said.
A+/S. I know how to race cleanly and, amongst those I race with, I'm known for it, thanks, pumpkin.
Driving "heavily aggressive / aggressively" just because you feel your entitled to be in front of someone leads to conflict ALL of the time.
What an utterly, utterly bizarre notion of racing you have.
- 320
- Michigan
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
I will tell you with 100% certainty, that I have never sent someone into the dirt in this game. It's happened by accident in other games, but in GT7 I guess I've just gotten lucky. I'm going to assume you've never done anything like that because you seem to be the whole sim racing package. Driving aggressive by my definition, is just following closer and putting more pressure on the car in front of me, waiting for them to make a mistake. It doesn't always work, but it's come in handy plenty of times. Driving heavily aggressive by my definition is going for that pass on someone who's being overly defensive, or just simply not paying attention to other drivers and following the suggestive line. Someone who is obviously slower, and if it were me, would let them pass. I have multiple ways a dealing with that type of racer. I've backed off and given them space, caught them again rinse and repeat. You can judge me all you want bud. Even give yourself a pat on the back for thinking you know me. You forget that there are many different types of video game players. Ranging from casual to hardcore. It doesn't matter what type of game it is, you will always have the same type of people. Telling me that I don't deserve to play in a lobby because I don't care if I podium in an arcade racing game is pure nonsense.
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- 320
- Michigan
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
- xIX_CJ83_XIx
And again. Someone playing out a scenario where the player(s) your racing against are of similar skill. Let me give a popular scenario in the Sport lobbies of GT7.
You start a race in 4th place. The race starts and your pushing hard into that first turn. Then all of a sudden, someone from the very back takes you out of the race. Now you're in 11th place. You're not mad about what happened, but you know you need to really make up some lost time. You have no chance of winning, but you're going to push to get the best position you can. You pass a few cars that are extremely slow or they just missed their brake point and went off track. You're now behind the 8th place car and it didn't take you long to catch him. You go for a pass on the inside but he cuts you off. Trying to avoid contact, you back off and get behind him. A few corners later, you try again and get the same result. The person claims they are defending their position, but it's obviously not the case. If it weren't for you slowing down and avoiding contact, you would have ended up in the dirt again. What do you do in that situation? Most of the responses are obviously going to be "get some skill and learn how to pass", but I'm looking for actual opinions on the matter.
I've had some really good races in Sport mode battling for 4th place. More enjoyable than winning the race by 10 seconds. I love the competition, but at some point it's not competition and it's straight up ignorance. I also don't just pull over when another car gets behind me. I will challenge for as long as I see necessary. If the person tries to under brake me in the corner, I let them. It's no big deal to me.
