Are Fictional Courses Good for the Gran Turismo Series?
- Thread starter JohnBM01
- 428 comments
- 55,307 views
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
How about a combined Rome course, then?
- 1,620
I miss more of the old style fantasy racetracks, especially as the glut of comparatively terrible city courses in GT4 really were not fun (and seemingly I'm not by myself here).
For pure driving pleasure, GT's physics have always excelled at long flowing racetracks with loads of different corner types.
If PD insist on more frustrating arrow-straight straights followed by a series of 90 degree blind turns (where we're actively discouraged to really push the car due to the painful walls), we might as well just play Driver 1 or Project Gotham. Those are the only games I remember that managed to make stop-start driving with 90 degree turns fun.
GT just does not have good enough slow-speed or handbrake physics (so far) to make driving around in rat-mazes enjoyable or worthy of inclusion.
I feel the reason so many tight stop-start city courses were put into GT4 was largely because they're aesthetically pretty, and its technically possible to jam a lot of detail into a small area to show off the game engine. New York was the best of these, but its hardly a classic GT track compared to say, Trial Mountain or Grand Valley.
I loved Eiger in GT5P, so hopefully there are more like that, and less like Opera.
For pure driving pleasure, GT's physics have always excelled at long flowing racetracks with loads of different corner types.
If PD insist on more frustrating arrow-straight straights followed by a series of 90 degree blind turns (where we're actively discouraged to really push the car due to the painful walls), we might as well just play Driver 1 or Project Gotham. Those are the only games I remember that managed to make stop-start driving with 90 degree turns fun.
GT just does not have good enough slow-speed or handbrake physics (so far) to make driving around in rat-mazes enjoyable or worthy of inclusion.
I feel the reason so many tight stop-start city courses were put into GT4 was largely because they're aesthetically pretty, and its technically possible to jam a lot of detail into a small area to show off the game engine. New York was the best of these, but its hardly a classic GT track compared to say, Trial Mountain or Grand Valley.
I loved Eiger in GT5P, so hopefully there are more like that, and less like Opera.
Last edited:
- 180
- Portugal
- RickNU19
The fictional courses have been in GT since the very first and they are not ust good but all important. Without them we'd have far fewer tracks and those kinds of tracks that are hard to find in the real world and get a license from can be made as fictional courses.
GT5 MUST have it's fictional circuits or I'll be mega pissed off!!
Rome and Madrid look amazing, but I reckon those 2 tracks would have taken the effort of upgrading 10 or so fictional ones.
Also, Monza and Nurburgring GP are among my favourite tracks but neither are suited to much of the diverse range of cars we have available.
PD are actually geniuses when it comes to track design, Deep Forest and Seattle are my favourite tracks in the series, it would be a grand shame if HSR was the only upgrade (and to be honest, they did an amazing job on that!).
Rome and Madrid look amazing, but I reckon those 2 tracks would have taken the effort of upgrading 10 or so fictional ones.
Also, Monza and Nurburgring GP are among my favourite tracks but neither are suited to much of the diverse range of cars we have available.
PD are actually geniuses when it comes to track design, Deep Forest and Seattle are my favourite tracks in the series, it would be a grand shame if HSR was the only upgrade (and to be honest, they did an amazing job on that!).
- 3,131
- GTP_GTPrologue5
- None
I love fictional courses. It gives you a chance to race on something that will never be built. Ever.
It's a distinct experience.
It's a distinct experience.
- 17,332
- United Kingdom
The fictional courses are part of GT's history, some were good, and some were bad... I loved Grindelwald and SS12, never got the big deal about Red Rock though? And as I've read through this thread I have read many people fondly digging up memories that relate to races on the fictional tracks...
.. problem is, they kind of go against the whole realism thing, they are fake and have much less place in GT these days IMO, they are not realistically constructed and offer little over and of the hundreds of real world tracks that PD could model.
The thing is, we all look for the big name tracks to be in the game... Spa will be a popular inclusion of it comes, and so was Monza, though for the record I'm not a fan of Monza.. whereas there are many real world tracks that are lesser known, that I'm sure could be licensed cheaply and would offer all the the fake tracks do.
People talk about being able to race around tracks that otherwise couldn't be built, fine, yes thats right - however, I don't see the difference between that and introducing a raft of fake cars too - "lets not include Nissan - but make up a new brand and put a load of make believe cars in?"... is that what GT is about?
Like I say, they are a valuable part of GT history.. but not the future.
.. problem is, they kind of go against the whole realism thing, they are fake and have much less place in GT these days IMO, they are not realistically constructed and offer little over and of the hundreds of real world tracks that PD could model.
The thing is, we all look for the big name tracks to be in the game... Spa will be a popular inclusion of it comes, and so was Monza, though for the record I'm not a fan of Monza.. whereas there are many real world tracks that are lesser known, that I'm sure could be licensed cheaply and would offer all the the fake tracks do.
People talk about being able to race around tracks that otherwise couldn't be built, fine, yes thats right - however, I don't see the difference between that and introducing a raft of fake cars too - "lets not include Nissan - but make up a new brand and put a load of make believe cars in?"... is that what GT is about?
Like I say, they are a valuable part of GT history.. but not the future.
- 6,804
- The Netherlands
That's not the same thing in my opinion, I can easily imagine some real life tracks, roads or scenery I've not seen before or driven along existing somewhere some place which could be somewhat similar to the ones created by PD.
When I drive a car on a road where I've not been before I see things which, although mostly familiar, are new to me.
And despite knowing those PD created tracks are fictional it feels realistic, it's not that the scenery consists of a fairytale landscape, loopings suddenly appear or the laws of physics don't apply anymore.
I don't think there's any person alive to have actually driven all roads and tracks around the world to say nothing like it exists, so opposed to a make believe car which is rather more obviously fake and takes a rather large imagination to convince anyone knowing a bit about cars it could be a realistic experience, the fictional tracks only require a very small bit of imagination to be perceived as real, at least to me.
Last edited:
- 643
- Spazza
I love the fictional tracks, some of my fondest memories as a kid with GT1 was racing through Deep Forest or driving through the streetlit highways of CSR5, IMO they are vital to Gran Turismo and i have equally amounts of fun, if not more, driving on these beautifully created courses.
- 2,096
Gran Turismo has a number of 'fantasy' cars that were never built and were either a dream/concept of certain manufacturers or of Polyphony Digital. Those are directly comparable to the original ('fantasy') courses. Neither are so off-the-wall that they take a suspension of belief to make them feel as a cohesive part of the game. It's not like any tracks have loop-de-loops or anything!
- 17,332
- United Kingdom
Percentage of fictional cars vs. fictional circuits in the games is tiny. A few made up cars that are mostly ignored, from 1000 available vs.. half the tracks in the game.
..
I've ranted about this before, but I can't think of many realworld circuits that go to the effort of tunnelling through millions of tons of rock to create tunnels, or constructing (multiple) suspension bridges.... it stands out a mile in GT as far as I can see...
.. real-world circuits are defined by their surroundings, fictional circuits define their landscapes...
Also, for many motorsport fans, the heritage/history of a real track may lend weight and atmosphere to a virtual race.
I would not be sad for no fictional courses to make their way into GT5.. I loved racing them in previous games, but as GT has become more 'real' its environment needs to aswell.
I'll conceed I am a bit of a "trackophile", I love the variety of circuits in the world as much as I do the cars... to have fake tracks de-values the experience for me.. but thats just me I guess.
- 489
- bigmama1954
But that's what makes those tracks special. You're right about one thing. There aren't many real world tracks that allow for that kind of location, but the fantasy ones do. Trail Mountian, Deep Forest, Grand Valley, and many others allow us to race in environments that most likely wouldn't be available in the real world, they're different, and that's what makes them special.
And besides. Most of the tracks aren't that far fetched...and they're pretty fun to race on too.
Well maybe so, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the fictional courses don't hold their own special meaning in many peoples hearts and minds. My memories with Grand Valley certainly mean something to me whenever I race on it.
Personally I think that many of the fictional courses are a part of GT's history. The game just wouldn't be complete without them. They've been there since the very beginning. GT can get as realistic as it wants, but like i said earlier, something just wouldn't "feel" right without them.
The variety of real world circuits is indeed amazing, but you could have even more variety with the fictional courses....as for the de-valuing of your experience...Well I guess that's just a fellow GT fans opinion. 👍
- 4,797
- Antarctica
We need Molvania as a country:
- 5,766
- USA
- TPC_Raccooon23
- CRaccoon23
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
The way I see it, if GT were about a particular racing series, or was only about professional racing in general, sure, I could see the argument against fantasy tracks. Imagine a game trying to bill itself as the definitive F1 game with made up tracks scattered in the calendar. But GT has always been about the cars first; the fantasy tracks have mostly all been well-designed, allowing us to really enjoy the cars. We all want realism, but we also want a fine balance between it and actual fun; I don't want to have to deal with all the tedious aspects of car ownership in the game, that's why I'm playing a game to begin with. The fantasy tracks are real enough that they don't have me thinking throughout a lap "man, this would never be possible in real life".
Plus from a rational perspective, we can have a lot more track variety with the inclusion of fantasy tracks; real tracks cost more money with fees, and more time with having to reproduce accurately. We can tell if PD fudged up a section of the Nordschleife; it's pretty easy to do if need be. Nobody can tell them that with Grand Valley; it's their's.
Plus from a rational perspective, we can have a lot more track variety with the inclusion of fantasy tracks; real tracks cost more money with fees, and more time with having to reproduce accurately. We can tell if PD fudged up a section of the Nordschleife; it's pretty easy to do if need be. Nobody can tell them that with Grand Valley; it's their's.
- 116
- thomas81
I more than welcome mase up tracks as long as they are good, and not too fictional, you have to have a feeling that the track could be real.
- 26,911
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
Now with word of the Course Maker thing, I guess this assures us the importance (or at least, the relevance) of fictional tracks. Making fictional courses allows you to express your creativity. It also helps give you a little identity. Enthusia has the amazing Löwenseering. I guess Forza has Maple Valley Raceway (since I regarded Alpine Ring as their best). Creativity and identity are two key words regarding this whole thing.
It's STILL nice to see this thread going strong.
It's STILL nice to see this thread going strong.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Eh, true, making fictional courses really is a great way of showing creativity. Sadly, moving a few sliders around and having the game build a track for you kinda limits that.
👍
Forgot about that; racing aside, the fantasy tracks provide a lot of picturesque photo ops for the digital snappers around here. Real tracks can provide it at times too, but usually, it's technical in nature (like showing off a particular turn), and the purely scenic stuff peppering the track's immediate surroundings is a lot more sparse. Look at Laguna, for example.
(Obviously the Nordschleife is an exception though, it's sheer scale provides a lot of nice spots)
- 127
- Kijŏng-don
- PS1 Memory Card
Well, well, well...as if the beloved Grindelwald wasn't THAT fictional after all...
GT is a simulation game but there's still a fantasy aspect to it that makes fictional courses fun.
The whole premise of video games or virtual reality is letting players do things they can't in real life. I love that GT lets you race through city streets even though the real course counter parts don't exist in real life. Sort of answers the question - "what if?"
Maby that makes it even better than real life in some ways..
The whole premise of video games or virtual reality is letting players do things they can't in real life. I love that GT lets you race through city streets even though the real course counter parts don't exist in real life. Sort of answers the question - "what if?"
Maby that makes it even better than real life in some ways..
- 23,800
- Philippines
Yup.
Without free-roaming (which, honestly, is hard to do given hardware limitations, if we're going to keep the level of graphics and physics high), GT's fictional courses are the closest we can get to running the "Tail of the Dragon" or (insert your favorite windy piece of asphalt here) in some of these cars.
GT's excellent fictional tracks, in fact, are what kept GT4 on my playlist long after I stopped playing the career modes. Places like El Capitan, Trial Mountain, Seattle. Places with engaging scenery and fun to drive courses.
And the Nurburgring. A track so long, so curvy and so obviously dangerous that it's hard to believe it actually exists in real life (except for the fact that it's been around for like... forever).
Without free-roaming (which, honestly, is hard to do given hardware limitations, if we're going to keep the level of graphics and physics high), GT's fictional courses are the closest we can get to running the "Tail of the Dragon" or (insert your favorite windy piece of asphalt here) in some of these cars.
GT's excellent fictional tracks, in fact, are what kept GT4 on my playlist long after I stopped playing the career modes. Places like El Capitan, Trial Mountain, Seattle. Places with engaging scenery and fun to drive courses.
And the Nurburgring. A track so long, so curvy and so obviously dangerous that it's hard to believe it actually exists in real life (except for the fact that it's been around for like... forever).
- 10,850
- Plymouth, UK
- motorforum
The only reason why I thought Grindelwald was merely inspired by the town rather than being accurate is because I saw pictures of the real location and couldn't notice any landmarks that I remember from the GT2 track.
Is Eiger Nordwand also set in the real area, but not actually a real road or what? I know the Camino Viejo track in FM3 sits roughly where the real town of Montserrat in Spain is, but it replaces the town and monastery with a race track lol.
Anyhow, anything Alp-based would make for stunning scenery and the more the merrier (Fingers crossed Grindelwald is back as it's such good fun).
Is Eiger Nordwand also set in the real area, but not actually a real road or what? I know the Camino Viejo track in FM3 sits roughly where the real town of Montserrat in Spain is, but it replaces the town and monastery with a race track lol.
Anyhow, anything Alp-based would make for stunning scenery and the more the merrier (Fingers crossed Grindelwald is back as it's such good fun).
- 23,800
- Philippines
As long as I have my El Capitan, I'm happy. The fast flow of corners is infintely more satisfying when you're going for a quick blat than the ultra-technical Eiger course. And all those hills and jumps... I've always thought of El Cap as "Nordschlieffe-lite".
Similar threads
