Are Fictional Courses Good for the Gran Turismo Series?

[marchi]

Midfield raceway, Apricot Hill, Autumn Ring and Grand Valley are some of the best tracks fantasy tracks ever created.

 

[HaRdLiNeR]

marchi Senior Member Online Now!
Midfield raceway, Apricot Hill, Autumn Ring and Grand Valley are some of the best tracks fantasy tracks ever created.

havte to agree with Autumn Ring and Grand Valley! but midfield and apricot were a bit to simple i think!

 

[Vince_Fiero]

If everyone does all real tracks (yes the others will catch up) and cars like you find at a dealership, what is your competitive advantage.

With creating "fictive" courses you can differentiate yourself as a game, so I believe it is essential.

The Track Generator is really fictive if I understand correctly and measuring yourself on a track you can not know is a complete new feature in the GranTurismo series. Some will adore it, some prefer the rest, it will always be like that.

 

[MatskiMonk]

City course such as London or Seattle, though "Fictional" are based on real locations and existing tarmac, so I can see that it gives you the chnce to race somewhere that you wouldn't normally be able to.. but places like Midfield, Grand Valley, Trial Mountain and Deep forest (my favourite fictional tracks), are totally made up - and though I do enjoy playing them, to me it stands out that they are fictional, it feels more like playing ridge racer sometimes.

I'm not the biggest motor racing geek in the world, but I do watch a lot of motorsport, and quite often, it's NOT the biggest well known (read F1) circuits that I like... they all tend to be a bit smooth and a bit wide - but the national level circuits that would offer the most fun IMO.

I'm not saying the PD tracks are bad, and I've got many fond memories of racing them, and I'm not sayin that all the choices for real world tracks are good ones.. but the more work they put into the accuracy and realism of the game, the more it kinda makes me think that the PD tracks don't have a place in the game.

I won't complain if they're in, but I wouldn't miss them if they are gone. Once carreer mode is finished, all I do is Time Trial, usually at the ring (in GT4), but for me there is more of a feeling of accomplishment to have "beaten" a real circuit than a fictional one.

 

[Mr Frappy]

And the Nurburgring. A track so long, so curvy and so obviously dangerous that it's hard to believe it actually exists in real life (except for the fact that it's been around for like... forever).

The Nurb is actually just a public road, and as such, there are many, many more dangerous public roads out there, just not with a toll placed on them and not used as a track.

 

[Sohvakettu]

It's a track treated as a public road to be precise. For comparison Isle of Man TT is a public road treated as a track.

 

[Emu76]

For me the City tracks are rubbish, but tracks like Grand Valley, Deep Forest, Trial Mountain etc. are a real asset to GT and I don't think for a second they should be removed. Would like to see some more GP circuits too though.

 

[Nattefrost]

City course such as London or Seattle, though "Fictional" are based on real locations and existing tarmac, so I can see that it gives you the chnce to race somewhere that you wouldn't normally be able to.. but places like Midfield, Grand Valley, Trial Mountain and Deep forest (my favourite fictional tracks), are totally made up - and though I do enjoy playing them, to me it stands out that they are fictional, it feels more like playing ridge racer sometimes.

I'm not the biggest motor racing geek in the world, but I do watch a lot of motorsport, and quite often, it's NOT the biggest well known (read F1) circuits that I like... they all tend to be a bit smooth and a bit wide - but the national level circuits that would offer the most fun IMO.

I'm not saying the PD tracks are bad, and I've got many fond memories of racing them, and I'm not sayin that all the choices for real world tracks are good ones.. but the more work they put into the accuracy and realism of the game, the more it kinda makes me think that the PD tracks don't have a place in the game.

I won't complain if they're in, but I wouldn't miss them if they are gone. Once carreer mode is finished, all I do is Time Trial, usually at the ring (in GT4), but for me there is more of a feeling of accomplishment to have "beaten" a real circuit than a fictional one.

It's fine if you feel that way, but from your posts I get the feeling you just experience GT a bit different than the typical GT fan (or should I say "enthusiast"). The emphasis in GT is on the authentic driving experience, rather than the authentic racing experience. It's about taking a car out for a spin and experiencing the joy of driving it cleanly around a variety of circuits.

That's why I feel it's less important if the track is fictional, as long as it's a realistically flowing and very enjoyable circuit. Some of the original GT tracks like Grand Valley, Apricot Hill, Deep Forest etc are so successful in that sense that it would be a massive loss they weren't included. They fit the objective of a GT game perfectly.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> ...

Is Eiger Nordwand also set in the real area, but not actually a real road or what?

^ Eiger is set on a real location in the Swiss Valley, but the location itself doesn't have cars. So PD developed EigNor track based on the walkpath along the way.

^ For details, you can go HERE.

 

[shirakawaa]

Just to clarify, the location that can be seen in the GT5P course Eiger Nordwand is called in real life "Kleine Scheidegg". That name was in the "leaked" list of some weeks ago along with "Grindelwald".

 

[Patrocles]

I prefer real or fictional race circuits to road coarses (london, rome, etc.). However, I will try both!

 

[MatskiMonk]

It's fine if you feel that way, but from your posts I get the feeling you just experience GT a bit different than the typical GT fan (or should I say "enthusiast"). The emphasis in GT is on the authentic driving experience, rather than the authentic racing experience. It's about taking a car out for a spin and experiencing the joy of driving it cleanly around a variety of circuits.

To be honest, if GT would appeal to me as much if it had 50 cars and 500 tracks (if they were all real), as it does with 1000 cars and 70 tracks.

I tend to race till I can afford all the cars I like, normally keeping them stock, and then it's all about time trials... I'm not that competitive to be honest, winning agains other people is one thing, beating your own best performance is always more satisfying

 

[niky]

The Nurb is actually just a public road, and as such, there are many, many more dangerous public roads out there, just not with a toll placed on them and not used as a track.

And not lined with a million miles of ARMCO. If only all roads were like that... *sigh*

 

[VXR]

-> ...

^ Eiger is set on a real location in the Swiss Valley, but the location itself doesn't have cars. So PD developed EigNor track based on the walkpath along the way.

^ For details, you can go HERE.

Thanks for that. I'm hoping to make my first trip to Switzerland happen as soon as possible. I've been to Kitzbuhel in Austria, but the Alps in June haven't got quite the same appeal!

 

[BudNC6721]

I've read most of the replies in this thread and haven't said my thoughts, but I really think the fictional courses make for a better game. Let me repeat the last word from the previous sentance GAME. Games are allowed to have fictional courses, and quite frankly my favorite courses are the fictional courses.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I've read most of the replies in this thread and haven't said my thoughts, but I really think the fictional courses make for a better game. Let me repeat the last word from the previous sentance GAME. Games are allowed to have fictional courses, and quite frankly my favorite courses are the fictional courses.

Is it a game or a simulator?

'because if its a game, who needs real cars and real physics?

Car models: Millions of Polygons, realistic textures used to make realistic models
Interior modelling: A favourite of GTplaneters, (some) realistic detailed interior modelling
Physics engine: 10 years in the making, realistic advanced physics engine
Day & Night: Advanced lighting physics to generate realistic lighting and shadows
Damage models: Complex modelling of damage to enhance realistic racing experience
The tracks: magical adventure race through mystical pixie unicorn land?

okay, I exagerate. But I don't see why its okay to have comptelly made up portions of the game when great lenghts are gone to to make the rest of it as realistic as possible.

 

[EvolutionWRX]

Is it a game or a simulator?

'because if its a game, who needs real cars and real physics?

The tracks: magical adventure race through mystical pixie unicorn land?

okay, I exagerate. But I don't see why its okay to have comptelly made up portions of the game when great lenghts are gone to to make the rest of it as realistic as possible.

100% agree here. This doesnt make for a pure simultator. I mean you might as well have fake cars making it arcadey or condradictory.

I ROFL'ed after I read these statements above. Why you say? Simple, this isn't Motortoon Grand Prix anymore. Pixie dust? Lol, fictional track that replicate real life doesn't mean Peter Pan supposed to hover over you while you're about to run-over Sack Boy.

So you guys are saying all those simulated fictional courses made by other developers within and outside the game industry, are a complete waste?

Talk about nonsense.. 👎

 

[SlipZtrEm]

100% agree here. This doesnt make for a pure simultator. I mean you might as well have fake cars making it arcadey or condradictory.

Now I'll go the other way; a GT with nothing but real tracks isn't realistic anyways. I didn't have to haggle with the dealer to buy my car, I don't have to keep track of consumables, tire wear is still hilariously wrong, I don't have random mishaps with the car and it not starting, damage is still wrong and even if there are costs in-game to fix it, they won't be realistic either.

There have been fake cars in GT since day 1. Based on real cars, yes, but I've never seen a Copperhead LM Edition or GTO LM Edition, have you?

 

[MatskiMonk]

So you guys are saying all those simulated fictional courses made by other developers within and outside the game industry, are a complete waste?

Talk about nonsense.. 👎

Not a waste, but they have less place in a simulator, and for the record the only other racing game I play/played was TOCA3 (PS2), because I liked the fact that many of the courses were real ones, and DiRT - because it's Pikes Peak was pretty good.

There have been fake cars in GT since day 1. Based on real cars, yes, but I've never seen a Copperhead LM Edition or GTO LM Edition, have you?

True, there have been some concept cars in the game since day 1, but were talking 1-2% or less, not 50% (rough guess) like it is with tracks

 

[EvolutionWRX]

Not a waste, but they have less place in a simulator, and for the record the only other racing game I play/played was TOCA3 (PS2), because I liked the fact that many of the courses were real ones, and DiRT - because it's Pikes Peak was pretty good.

You might also forgot that fictional circuit is what makes a game (or for the matter, a driving sim) separate from the rest. Take one of the best racing simulators in the console game industry Enthusia Professional Racing for example. It too had had fictional tracks and so does the highly glofied "The Definitive for this Generation" Forza Motorsport also had fictional tracks. Its all about the identity and the uniqueness of each game that makes it exciting. Not being sterile like most dedicated sim games.

 

[BudNC6721]

Ok, well are the courses in the game fictional courses or simulations of possible courses that just aren't built yet? Theoretically they all could be built (meaning there is nothing completely unrealistic about them), hence they aren't fictional, they are technically in the research and developmental phase.

Also how can it be a simulator if it doesn't simulate whats happens in a wreck? If I am in my car and I drive 200 mph into a wall, then it is very likely I will cause physical harm to my body. So with that being said why doesn't it simulate that as part of the experience? How come I don't break arms or legs while playing gt?

 

[BudNC6721]

They might be different things, but it is also laughable to suggest this is an actual simulator. If it were a true simulator the cars would actually break down and stop working during races. The fact of the matter is that this is a PS3 game. While it happens to have very realistic physics compared to other ps3 titles, at the end of the day it is still a game and games are allowed to have tracks the fictional. Regardless some of these fictional tracks have been in the series since day 1 and they remain some essential elements that define the Gran Turismo series as it is.

Edit: Track editor is what it is, I actually wish it was a little more comprehensive but that is a different topic for a different time.

 

[BudNC6721]

manufacturers do not want their cars destroyed in games.

Thats exactly my point. Having a cars that don't stop working is as realistic as a track that does not exist. Its what makes it a game. I know its a a realistic game but its still a game. Also I think I mentioned this earlier, the fictional tracks really make this game for me. They are a staple of the Gran Turismo series for better or for worse (I think for the better but that is just me.)

 

[Quintin03]

Why are people arguing GT is a game or simulator. It's a simulation-like game which tries to replicate real life while keeping it enjoyable. If having only real circuits can't be done in an enjoyable way, for instance they can't license, measure and model enough tracks to ensure a good variety and avoid having to use the same tracks at all times, then fictional tracks are created to fill in the voids.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

But I must add that the implementation of the track editor basically encourages people to be creative which would be good for the series.

I'd agree if it were a real creator. As is, while it's a cool feature and will be very handy, there's hardly anything creative about adjusting the values on a few sliders.

What's this talk about a "3+" anyways?

They might be different things, but it is also laughable to suggest this is an actual simulator. If it were a true simulator the cars would actually break down and stop working during races. The fact of the matter is that this is a PS3 game. While it happens to have very realistic physics compared to other ps3 titles, at the end of the day it is still a game and games are allowed to have tracks the fictional. Regardless some of these fictional tracks have been in the series since day 1 and they remain some essential elements that define the Gran Turismo series as it is.

Edit: Track editor is what it is, I actually wish it was a little more comprehensive but that is a different topic for a different time.

👍

GT is a game first, it just happens to be a simulation-heavy one. There's a fine balance to walk between entertainment and outright realism.

 

[BudNC6721]

Why are people arguing GT is a game or simulator. It's a simulation-like game which tries to replicate real life while keeping it enjoyable. If having only real circuits can't be done in an enjoyable way, for instance they can't license, measure and model enough tracks to ensure a good variety and avoid having to use the same tracks at all times, then fictional tracks are created to fill in the voids.

I am arguing it in the context that fictional courses are good for the game because is a game. If it were a true simulator then I could see where these fictional tracks are detrimental to the cause, but in my opinion I view it as a game and these tracks are welcome additions because of it.

 

[MatskiMonk]

The way people are talking sounds like real life circuits are boring or all the same?

There's plenty of variety to be had in the real world, I appreciate it's easier, quicker and cheaper to model fictional circuits than it is to replicate real life ones, and that alone is reason enough to have them in the game I guess ~ kinda like filler to pad the game out?

And yes GT isn't totally a simulator.. would it be nice if it more accuratley modelled impact damage, yes.. should it make it more expensive to race and own expensive cars, probably yes... there's lots of things that could make it more realistic, but there are other threads for that.. this is about tracks.

 

[BudNC6721]

No, thats not how intended my argument to sound. Real life circuits are fun and challenging too. I prefer a mix of both, rather than having one or another. Whether its racing through the streets of New York City, or taking the corkscrew at Laguna, I enjoy all the tracks in the gt series.

 

[Gejabo]

I do realy hope it is still a GAME...

My interest in GT is some what devided, I like the simulator part and driving the cars I'll never be able to afford. But on the other hand the FUN factor is also very important. Even when I'm playing with some mates who are not that much into racing games.


If it is purely a simulator they'll cut off a large audiounce. And lets face it PD is still a commercial company who need to make money.

just my two cents

 

[Nattefrost]

The way people are talking sounds like real life circuits are boring or all the same?

There's plenty of variety to be had in the real world, I appreciate it's easier, quicker and cheaper to model fictional circuits than it is to replicate real life ones, and that alone is reason enough to have them in the game I guess ~ kinda like filler to pad the game out?

And yes GT isn't totally a simulator.. would it be nice if it more accuratley modelled impact damage, yes.. should it make it more expensive to race and own expensive cars, probably yes... there's lots of things that could make it more realistic, but there are other threads for that.. this is about tracks.

That may be true for some of the more recent fictional circuits, but some of the original classic are anything but filler. Although I have to say PD seems done with creating fictional race circuits like Grand Valley, instead focussing on fictional city circuits and real race circuits. I'm not the biggest fan of their city circuits, but those original race circuits are brilliant.