Are Fictional Courses Good for the Gran Turismo Series?

[mutzley]

Of course it's a good idea it's one of mine! (Moi? Big Headed? OUI! but NOT modest!) seriously though, if PD done a few tracks like that, I wouldn't even mind having to pay for them as DLC

 

[marchi]

I'm not sure about anybody else, but I feel tracks like Apricot Hill, Autumn Ring and Midfield raceway, are arguably some of the best tracks in video game business.
They always provide great racing, and especially at midfield 'near the back hair pin before the tunnel' force the driver to settle the car down properly.

 

[Nomino]

To me it's no different than PD just making up cars and putting them in the game, though I love the classic tracks, the real-life tracks feel so much more satisfying for me to race around, they have more credibility, atmosphere, and are technically all sound, where as I'm pretty sure that the likes of Trial mountain could never actually be used in a real-life series.

Yeah right!

You only say that because you know that what you are playing does not exist in real life. If you didn't know different, you'd be as happy with fictional courses as you are with the real life ones. If you were so beat up about courses based on real locations, you would not be happy because they really are not like the real locations at all - just representations of. So, what does it matter if the track exists or not as long as one has it's own challenges and qualities?

 

[MatskiMonk]

Yeah right!

You only say that because you know that what you are playing does not exist in real life. If you didn't know different, you'd be as happy with fictional courses as you are with the real life ones. If you were so beat up about courses based on real locations, you would not be happy because they really are not like the real locations at all - just representations of. So, what does it matter if the track exists or not as long as one has it's own challenges and qualities?

So you'd would be okay with PD putting fictional car manufacturers and brands in the game then?

We want real cars, why not real tracks? Fictional circuits just come across as artificial, the details are there to give them false character, they're almost a bit gimmicky - like PD could never have come up with the mulsanne straight - oh no, they'd have had a bridge and a tunnel along it! a few examples of things that I find slightly jarring and unrealistic..

Trial Mountain:
Two tunnels, one of them quite long... how many millions of tons of rock would have to be excavated just to build a race track... would never happen, not to mention the safety aspects. Also the trees, road coures don't tend to have trees and branches overhanging the track. And also the tight corners with no visibility and huge 'un-armcoed' jaggedy rocks -- not un-common for rallys, but not likely at a circuit that would host races.

Grand Valley:
Again with the tunnels. And also, it's unlikely a road course would necessitate the construction of a huge bridge to race across (same goes for HSR)

Midfield:
Tunnels! Circuit builders don't look for large lumps of rock to try and build racetracks through...

Deepforest:
TUNNELS!

Red Rock:
TUNNELS!!!

Don't get me wrong it's not like these actually cause a problem in the game - but you say I wouldn't know any better.. I disagree, it's the subtle things you notice.. like, you wouldn't expect to see a Ferrari Enzo spin up it's front wheels on the start line - or a boost dial on a stock M3 would you?

I watch a lot of motorsport, I love the circuits... I see a GT-R GT500 tearing round Sugo in the JGTC and I want to do the same, not jump in the GT-R and go tearing round an imaginary enchanted wood admiring the pixies and the elves (or the tunnels)!

There are hundreds of tracks around the world, without even resorting to the big name tracks... I don't see the need for fake tracks.

This is just my opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree, but I genuinely don't think you can argue that it'd be any different to having made-up cars.

 

[TeamStig]

So you'd would be okay with PD putting fictional car manufacturers and brands in the game then?

We want real cars, why not real tracks? Fictional circuits just come across as artificial, the details are there to give them false character, they're almost a bit gimmicky - like PD could never have come up with the mulsanne straight - oh no, they'd have had a bridge and a tunnel along it! a few examples of things that I find slightly jarring and unrealistic..

Trial Mountain:
Two tunnels, one of them quite long... how many millions of tons of rock would have to be excavated just to build a race track... would never happen, not to mention the safety aspects. Also the trees, road coures don't tend to have trees and branches overhanging the track. And also the tight corners with no visibility and huge 'un-armcoed' jaggedy rocks -- not un-common for rallys, but not likely at a circuit that would host races.

Grand Valley:
Again with the tunnels. And also, it's unlikely a road course would necessitate the construction of a huge bridge to race across (same goes for HSR)

Midfield:
Tunnels! Circuit builders don't look for large lumps of rock to try and build racetracks through...

Deepforest:
TUNNELS!

Red Rock:
TUNNELS!!!

Don't get me wrong it's not like these actually cause a problem in the game - but you say I wouldn't know any better.. I disagree, it's the subtle things you notice.. like, you wouldn't expect to see a Ferrari Enzo spin up it's front wheels on the start line - or a boost dial on a stock M3 would you?

I watch a lot of motorsport, I love the circuits... I see a GT-R GT500 tearing round Sugo in the JGTC and I want to do the same, not jump in the GT-R and go tearing round an imaginary enchanted wood admiring the pixies and the elves (or the tunnels)!

There are hundreds of tracks around the world, without even resorting to the big name tracks... I don't see the need for fake tracks.

This is just my opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree, but I genuinely don't think you can argue that it'd be any different to having made-up cars.

I strongly disagree. Fictional courses, at least to me are just as rewarding as any real circuit. Maybe it's just nostalgia, but for someone who has been with the series since day one, fictional courses are a significant part of the Gran Turismo franchise. I would hate to see that go. If it did, then GT would be like every other racing simulator out there - devoid of all imagination and creativity. After all, this is a video game. If you aren't held back by reality, why not do something out of the ordinary?

In my opinion there should be a mix of both - half and half.

 

[Northstar]

So you'd would be okay with PD putting fictional car manufacturers and brands in the game then?

They have
Jay Leno (not a manufacturer, just a collector with a unique car)
Nike (A shoe company, not a car company)
Polyphony Digital (not a real F1 car)

Also, every GT style game has had fantasy tracks, they are a cheap way to bolster track count as well as add some variety to the game.

 

[MatskiMonk]

They have
Jay Leno (not a manufacturer, just a collector with a unique car)
Nike (A shoe company, not a car company)
Polyphony Digital (not a real F1 car)

Also, every GT style game has had fantasy tracks, they are a cheap way to bolster track count as well as add some variety to the game.

The tank car is real.

Concept cars are a grey area, I don't mind them so much... we've seen how powerful GT is outside of computer gaming with the "GT by Citroen" concept becoming reality. And also Nike are a real company.

And yes the Open wheel car was made up, though I don't think they ever refered to it as a Formula 1® - although they've now rectified this with GT5P.

 

[henban]

Ok, hypothetically:

Would you rather go for a ride in your "Super Mega Fast Open Wheel Turbo 5000 GTI Coupe Tank" on Daytona Speedway OR would you drive your favorite GT car on a fantasy track with amazing surrounding lakes, forests, mountains etc and with a really demanding but rewarding line section with mind-blowing differences in altitude and speed?

 

[regnar]

I know there is some who would rather PD do away with all the fictional courses, moving on, only to create real world courses.

Who knows, there's a likelihood that we would not be talking about this game now if these courses weren't created.
The creation of the fictional courses allowed PD to overcome licensing cost, which may have hindered the games early development.

Looking back at the fictional courses, yes there is a lot of elements such as bridges & tunnels
cutting through mountains that would not make financial since to build in the real world, but that's what
also gave them character. At this time PD has show a commitment to continue developing & evolving these courses
& probably they will be with the game until the last series.

Personally I want to keep the original fictional courses & PD to create more real courses.

 

[The Jenius]

Honestly I would stab someone if they removed Trial Mountain and Grand Valley... no really, I will find you. JK...or am I?

 

[mutzley]

Of course, these arguments could be academic in the long run. If PD decide to have the ability in the game to download new tracks and new cars as we all suspect and hope for then the real life afficiado's can just download the real life tracks they want and the fantasy islanders can download the fantasy tracks they want. Personally I would choose both. Yes there are some great real life tracks in the world, but by the same token, those tracks had to start in the mind of someone sitting with a piece of paper and a pencil. So those real world tracks had in essence had to start as someones fantasy. Who knows what some of the worlds great circuits could have been if finances, regulations, and real life hadn't put constraints on a mans imagination. GT is a game. But GT also stems from mans creativity. Don't ever put constraints on that. Let the men with imagination go nuts every so often, Life can be more fun that way!

 

[Coiler]

Deep forest, trial mountain , high speed ring, midfield, grand valley... love them all , you race them you know its Gran Turismo

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Here are my points:

1. Real World Tracks has that nostalgic aura that gives many race fans goosebumps and all. But Many of these real world circuits lack that certain unique enviroments that fictional tracks delivers. Sure some of these tracks are almost quite impossible to engineer (ie. Trial Mountain & Grand Valley Speedway), but the sense of racing thru these tracks are mostly regarded as one of the best simulated race tracks ever made. Even to the point that these tracks deserves to be built in real life.

2. Fictional Tracks are generally more fun to flog around compared to real tracks in my opinion. As what I've observed in GT2 up to GT5P; many of these real tracks have somewhat a sensation of feeling "bland". Allow me to explain; compared to many fictional tracks, real tracks lacks some exagerrated embankments, off-camber corners, and apexes. One good comparison is Infenion Raceway (Sports Car) and GT's own Autumn Ring; these tracks have a similar embankment angles (little more on Autumn Ring). But the overall variety of corners in Autumn Ring makes it much more interesting to drive for prolong periods of time.

3. Plus on fictional tracks, we will never see them in real life, while we have a very slight chance on racing our own cars on various real race tracks around the world (like NurbRing-North). That along adds to the suspense of the phrase "what if", al that makes fictional tracks more interesting.

4. On a comparison of Fictional vs. Fictional tracks from GT and other games; PD did a stellar job on creating these tracks as a true representation of the game that is unrivaled compared to most games. The only game I would consider that rivals GT's tracks are from the Battle Gear series. Sure Battle Gear features mostly real life street tracks from Japan, but their fictional tracks is almost on par with its "Togue" tracks in the game. 👍

 

[paulpg87]

The only 4 real tracks i want are: Spa, Monza, Silverstone, Nurburgring... than they can put all classic fictional tracks and i'll be happy.

 

[DK]

...mostly real life street tracks from Japan, but their fictional tracks is almost on par with its "Togue" tracks in the game. 👍

You spelt "Togue" wrong. It's "Touge", just google it. Or is it...

On-topic, yes, fictional tracks are an integral part of the Gran Turismo series. A lot of people can come up with decent ideas for GT tracks, but a few come up with truly epic ideas. Remember Trial Mountain? Awesome. Same thing with the Special Stage Routes 5 & 11.

EDIT: I'd love to see city courses in Barcelona and Los Angeles. And Dublin too...I just want to terrorise some D4s!

 

[Maggot666PL]

We want real cars, why not real tracks? Fictional circuits just come across as artificial, the details are there to give them false character, they're almost a bit gimmicky - like PD could never have come up with the mulsanne straight - oh no, they'd have had a bridge and a tunnel along it! a few examples of things that I find slightly jarring and unrealistic..

It's a driving game, you play it to DRIVE. It's an important part of the franchise to give you the feel of REAL cars. But the tracks you drive on are a completely different story - they need to be interesting, rewarding, challenging and fun to drive on. Besides, many of modern circuits are far more artificial than PD's creations (Bahrain, anyone? A paved track in the middle of the desert?).

All are welcome - real for getting to know the real tracks (to practice before going there someday in your own car ; )), and fictional - for fun and practice per se.

Also, every GT style game has had fantasy tracks, they are a cheap way to bolster track count as well as add some variety to the game.

I find this opinion underrating. It's harder to come up with a good track design (+ modelling) than to just measure it and recreate in 3D. It's often just a tad bit cheaper "moneywise".

 

[Slurm]

I LOVE the fantasy tracks in GT. They can come up with as many as they like as far as I'm concerned. I would welcome the announcement that they've made a dozen or more new ones. I also love their fictional "LM" cars.

 

[lbsf1]

fantasy tracks are good in the game. complex string and test course in gt3 for example are curcuits that would never be made but are perfect for testing cars it is all types of test in one curcuit. test course is so massive that you can reach your top speed of any car which you can't really do in any other curcuit. however if we have lots of curcuits like top gear test track, angelsy or millbrook test course there is no need for them but fantasy curcuits are not a bad thing

 

[marchi]

complex stringg

Fantastic replays. Especially over the chicanes at the start. Curb hopping on those bad boys

 

[A2K78]

Of course they. In fact I love them for the very fact that they very professionally done and I wouldn't be suprise if one day a racetrack architect/designer actually design a track in real life based on a GT track. I mean can you image if a real-life High Speed Ring or Mid-Field Raceway was actually constructed.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

Absolutely. El Capitan is a beautifully designed course. I love it. High Speed is a classic course. It's good for testing out new vehicles as it has turns and spots for mini sprints. Deep Forest is fun too. The point is there are many great fictional tracks. Some could be put to sleep, but not many.

 

[TBR 427]

Absolutely. El Capitan is a beautifully designed course. I love it.

Second that.

I used it as my main test track in GT4, along with the full version of Grand Vally to a lesser extent. But El Capitan was great, in that any car that was set up nicely for it was going to be set up nicely for pretty-much every other course. It tested straight line speed, braking from an angle (the first corner, (forward, of course) really tested the stability and roadholding of your car while braking from a high speed and changing direction), peak lateral grip (second corner, the long sweeping left = a ton of time if the car's good), drive out of corners, stability while changing directions and accelerating, braking up a hill, agility when flicking it left just before the tunnel (if the car's stepping out the corner before, you're screwed), how the car handles getting very light over a crest at high speed just as you clip an apex, downhill braking from medium-high speed, drive out of a slow corner immediately before a change in direction, it's ability to be settled through several medium corners, braking into a tightening radius downhill corner, and then a series of sweepers increasing in speed.

Grand Vally added how stable a car was powering over the ripple-strips (and you had to pummel them if you wanted a good time), more braking stability (T1/2), and rapid changes of direction.

 

[ploopsy]

Yes they are essential. R5, Seattle and Citta di Aria are my favorite tracks.

BTW there was a time when gt did not have an single real life track. I dont think they will abandon there roots or tracks that have been with the game for eternity.

 

[Nicko]

I feel fictional courses are a great feature within the GT series. Most of my favourite tracks from the entire series have been the fictional ones, like Deep Forest.

I also hope GT5 will bring some old fictional courses back! I remember Red Rock Valley from GT2 which was a cool track, Grindelwald etc. and some others which I can't remember right now....

 

[johngt]

I do like the fictional tracks in the GT series as they are nice and creative and are able to bypass the rules which go into building real life tracks, a track like Tokyo R246 would never be allowed in real life, but ingame its possible

However, I would really like to see some more real life tracks. Infineon, Daytona, Suzuka etc are all good but there needs to be more.

Road America
Road Atlanta
Mosport
Montreal
Portland
Mexico City
Interlagos
Kyalami
All V8 Supercars tracks (Oz has some brilliant circuits, especially Bathurst)
Most major national tracks in Britain
Spa
Monza
Imola
Mugello
Brno

You get my point

 

[serversurfer]

Trial Mountain is easily one of the best tracks ever, real or fictional.

Having real tracks in the game is cool, but really only from a "Hey, I'm racing at Lagna Seca!" standpoint, and it's nice to be able to see how your times stack up against real-world examples*. But really, I'm happy driving way too fast along any winding bit of road I happen to find, so the fact that Trial Mountain isn't a "real" racetrack doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's just hella fun to drive, and that's all I really care about.

Yes they are and they are all good tracks,however i`m sure all of us have done a billion laps on HSR,Grand Valley,Trial mountain,deep forest etc From GT1 to GT4/5P. Maybe some new fictional tracks are they way to go??

I probably did a billion laps on Trial Mountain just in GT2 alone, and I'm ready for more.

They always provide great racing, and especially at midfield 'near the back hair pin before the tunnel' force the driver to settle the car down properly.

You know, I used to hate that corner, but you're right; it taught me to do exactly that, and now I'm a better driver for it. 👍

Edit: *And for that reason, I'm certainly in favor of adding as many real tracks as possible, but most of the GTOs (Gran Turismo Originals) are simply outstanding and need to be in the game.

 

[moshic]

I really love Grand Valley, Tokyo at night and Gran Capitán, but I think there must be more 'cathedrals of motorsports' like Spa Francorchamps (especially), Monza, Assen, Jerez.. besides The Ring, Suzuka, La Sarthe or Monaco.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

I`d like to have a good mixture of real and fanatasy tracks.

Trial Mountain, Deep Forest and High Speed Ring are great tracks.

But they dont give me the same feeling like driving in Monza or Spa. On the otherhand, not every race track is like Spa. If I can choose between the Bahrain GP Circuit and Trial Mountain, I will take Trial Mountain.

Here my list of real life tracks, I really want to see in GT:

- Monza (the GP Track and the old Version, with the banking)
- Spa Franchorchamps
- Monaco
- Kyalami
- Istanbul Park
- Adelaide

 

[pay2021]

What a question!!!

I just cant wait to race in Grand Valley in GT5!!

CANT WAIT!!!

 

[mutzley]

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with real life tracks but a lot of the famous ones always appear to turn up in some race game or other, The fictional tracks however, when you see them, you know it's Gran Turismo. Personally I would love to see almost all the original tracks revamped (hated the short Seatle course and the short Rome course) plus a couple of long scenic courses. Some of the smaller less known courses would be good as well like croft, snetterton and knock hill