Attack on magazine Charlie Hebdo in Paris.

[eran0004]

Possibly. A case in law would have to be tried, appealed and affirmed.

A court in Turkey just did that.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/14/world/turkey-charlie-hebdo/index.html

 

[Milouse]

Possibly. A case in law would have to be tried, appealed and affirmed.
It's all very well to deal with hypotheticals and principles, but the real test is the real world.

BTW, i've finished, a few minutes ago, to view again the 2008 and 88 min long court case documentary "C'est dur d'être aimé par des cons" about Charlie Hebdo defending against Muslim organizations after 2006 publication (the one that reproduced Danish cartoons). Charlie Hebdo won in first instance and in Court of Appeal. I quote (and translate) decision: "The caricatures involved, as all others present in this issue, has, by their publication, participated to the debate of public interest about liberty of expression". Height years later, some decided to apply their own justice...

And I saw the news that the suspects were a 18-year old guy and two brothers (they have 32 and 34 years old).

This is a 5 days old information. The 18 yo one wasn't involved, he was at school.

 

[FoRiZon]

Just curious. The news always refer the muslim on the last edition (you know, with the Je Suis Charlie sign) as Muhammad. While it does bears a resemblance to the offending cover on the previous edition, I dont think Hebdo refers it with a name (The cover, not the incident as whole).

Correct if im wrong because I dont have the magazine. If anyone has one then you can tell.

 

[Milouse]

@FrzGT, i'll quote Luz, who drew the cover, on press conference. Luz arrived at Charlie Hebdo just after the attack that occurred on his birthday, and saw the bloodbath. So his work can't be unbound to his emotions.
Luz: "I've made around 20 cartoons, to a point of becoming crazy. [...] I still have a recurring idea to draw my Muhammad toon that we talked so much. And to make him hold a sign Je suis Charlie. That made me laugh. That was my last juice. [...] Then we cried."

So, yes, it is what medias says what it is. Did they know it in the first place? No: CH released the cover image without saying who it was, the Press conference took place the day after. I've wondered myself, back then, if they weren't trying to do an ambiguous drawing to force offended people to be faced with an incoherence (i can't represent Muhammad, but i can recognized him).

The CH 4th million copies has been sold out in minutes today. They keep printing...

 

[Dennisch]

Lassana Bathily, the guy who saved the people in the supermarket will be rewarded the French nationality for his heroic deeds.

300000 people have signed a petition to make it happen.

 

[Milouse]

Lassana Bathily, the guy who saved the people in the supermarket will be rewarded the French nationality for his heroic deeds.

In current context, i think it's worth mentioning he's a muslim who saved jews life. And i hope that someday in future, i wouldn't feel necessary to have to report such details.

 

[Johnnypenso]

@FrzGT, i'll quote Luz, who drew the cover, on press conference. Luz arrived at Charlie Hebdo just after the attack that occurred on his birthday, and saw the bloodbath. So his work can't be unbound to his emotions.
Luz: "I've made around 20 cartoons, to a point of becoming crazy. [...] I still have a recurring idea to draw my Muhammad toon that we talked so much. And to make him hold a sign Je suis Charlie. That made me laugh. That was my last juice. [...] Then we cried."

So, yes, it is what medias says what it is. Did they know it in the first place? No: CH released the cover image without saying who it was, the Press conference took place the day after. I've wondered myself, back then, if they weren't trying to do an ambiguous drawing to force offended people to be faced with an incoherence (i can't represent Muhammad, but i can recognized him).

The CH 4th million copies has been sold out in minutes today. They keep printing...

Interesting conundrum isn't it? If a cartoon was never labeled as being Muhammed and no Muslim has ever seen a picture or drawing of Muhammed..then what?

 

[Milouse]

@Johnnypenso
Then it wouldn't (it didn't, actually) prevent people for stating they are offended. Which leads me to try a translation of my favorite quote:
"The gravity is the happiness of the idiots" (Montesquieu)

PS: Here, gravity refers to being serious, solemn.

 

[Johnnypenso]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30840160

Belgian anti-terror raid, "jihadi related"...2 dead....

 

[mister dog]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30840160

Belgian anti-terror raid, "jihadi related"...2 dead....

Good riddens, Belgian police did a coordinated operation around Brussels and Verviers at the same time. Dead suspects in Verviers were returned ISIS fighters that recently came back from Syria and were planning to attack police or police stations in Belgium.

Amateur vid:

 

[Dotini]

Belgian authorities have apparently raided 10 locations in 4 cities, according to confused reports on CNN.

These are against people recently returning from Syria thought to be planning terrorist attacks.

Video was repeatedly shown of a burning apartment building and many shots fired. Two suspects dead and one captured.

So, blowback from the war in the Middle East has now spread across Western Europe in a major way.

I expect similar operations in Spain, France, Germany and the UK.

 

[Famine]

Belgian authorities have apparently raided 10 locations in 4 cities, according to confused reports on CNN.

...

So, blowback from the war in the Middle East has now spread across Western Europe in a major way.

Oh please. We have larger operations than that to catch paedophiles.

And the USA has larger operations than that to round up $100k of drugs.

 

[Sanji Himura]

At least Belgium is actually doing something proactive in stopping terror since Obama took office. However, I feel that everybody isn't doing enough. Revoking passports of citizens that travel to fight for ISIS is a good start. Actually charging them with treason if they return is another.

 

[Dotini]

Oh please. We have larger operations than that to catch paedophiles.

A Belgian prosecutor said that major imminent attacks were foiled.

I had no idea your British pedophiles were so dangerous.

 

[Touring Mars]

Revoking passports of citizens that travel to fight for ISIS is a good start. Actually charging them with treason if they return is another.

The snag is, when they are handed those little forms on the plane that ask 'Are you or have you ever been a member of IS/Al Qaeda/Islamic Jihad/any another terrorist organisation?', the sneaky buggers just tick no. We need more detailed forms on planes at the very least.

 

[Roger the Horse]

You obviously haven't been living in Britain lately.

Still, sad that there have been deaths in this anti-terror operation.

 

[Sanji Himura]

The snag is, when they are handed those little forms on the plane that ask 'Are you or have you ever been a member of IS/Al Qaeda/Islamic Jihad/any another terrorist organisation?', the sneaky buggers just tick no. We need more detailed forms on planes at the very least.

That is actually very easy to prove. Take a look at a person's travel history. Flying to Turkey? Okay. One Way? ...Okay. Staying there for a period longer than 3 weeks? ...Not okay.

You just have to screen everybody coming in one way to see if they at least made a similar flight out. Racist? No. It is just being vigilant.

 

[Dotini]

You obviously haven't been living in Britain lately.

When you raid a house of pedophiles in Britain, do they spray back with their Kalashnikovs?

 

[Touring Mars]

That is actually very easy to prove. Take a look at a person's travel history. Flying to Turkey? Okay. One Way? ...Okay. Staying there for a period longer than 3 weeks? ...Not okay.

You just have to screen everybody coming in one way to see if they at least made a similar flight out. Racist? No. It is just being vigilant.

It's not going to happen. I'm all for the idea of tracking the movement of known criminals, but the authorities in question can't even do that very well with known criminals (non-terrorists) in their own country - try monitoring the activities of hundreds of legal citizens in a war-torn country in a different continent.

There are hundreds of people whose family life, education, job, humanitarian work etc. gives them the reason to live in Europe and the Middle East, including Syria and frequently travel between these places. Even people going to fight can't (and shouldn't) be tarred with the same brush - that's the thing about wars... there's usually more than one side. In Syria, there are at least three - the government, pro-democracy rebels (including the Free Syrian Army, as well as other affiliates) and Islamists, which themselves are represented by many disparate groups, not all of which are even remotely interested in waging global jihad. So what was already an unlikely task just became alot harder to actually do. Meanwhile, the manpower, resources and money required to do this could easily be directed at a more fruitful enterprise.

When you raid a house of pedophiles in Britain, do they spray back with their Kalashnikovs?

Depends if they have recently unloaded their weapons, as even a pedophile takes a while to reload.

 

[Dennisch]

Here they were speaking about supplying the police with heavier weapons, just in case there would be a situation like in Paris, or just as in Belgium.

The response from the left? We don't want an arms race.
So, our police will take on the terrorists (if it happens) with handguns.
That will end well.

Maybe now that it has come a little closer to home they might reconsider their dumb neigh saying and arm the police a bit better, or at least get some tougher troops ready to go at more places throughout our country.

But I doubt it. Stupid hippies.

 

[Roger the Horse]

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...hebdo-add-faithophobia-to-my-crimes?CMP=fb_gu

I thought this was quite a good article on the matter.

 

[Scaff]

That is actually very easy to prove. Take a look at a person's travel history. Flying to Turkey? Okay. One Way? ...Okay. Staying there for a period longer than 3 weeks? ...Not okay.

You just have to screen everybody coming in one way to see if they at least made a similar flight out. Racist? No. It is just being vigilant.

What about people who stop in Turkey for the summer with family? What about people who work in the massive tourist industry? More than 30 million people visit Turkey each year for holidays, which requires a huge number of British, German, French, etc. people (youngsters most of them) to work as holiday reps for months at a time, your talking about thousands of people, the vast, vast majority of whom would be a waste of resources looking at.

That's without the fact that you don't need to fly into Turkey, land borders make monitoring flights in this way a pointless waste of time.

Its also a massive waste of police and border agency resource given that Islamic terrorism acoounts for less than 2% of the terrorism in Europe....

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/01/08/3609796/islamist-terrorism-europe/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-s-not-even-close.html?source=TDB&via=FB_Page

...more lives would be saved by focusing on the nationalist and separatist terrorist groups in Europe who make up the bulk of our terrorism.

 

[Fryto]

Here they were speaking about supplying the police with heavier weapons, just in case there would be a situation like in Paris, or just as in Belgium.

The response from the left? We don't want an arms race.
So, our police will take on the terrorists (if it happens) with handguns.
That will end well.

Maybe now that it has come a little closer to home they might reconsider their dumb neigh saying and arm the police a bit better, or at least get some tougher troops ready to go at more places throughout our country.

But I doubt it. Stupid hippies.

Is this just about the regular police forces or all of them? In Belgium only the special intervention forces have heavier weaponry. The regular police force only has hand guns and they aren't even allowed to take them home.

 

[Dennisch]

Is this just about the regular police forces or all of them? In Belgium only the special intervention forces have heavier weaponry. The regular police force only has hand guns and they aren't even allowed to take them home.

Regular police. But those are usually the ones responding first to any event, so give them a bit heavier weapons for as long as it's needed.

 

[GTsail]

What about people who stop in Turkey for the summer with family? What about people who work in the massive tourist industry? More than 30 million people visit Turkey each year for holidays, which requires a huge number of British, German, French, etc. people (youngsters most of them) to work as holiday reps for months at a time, your talking about thousands of people, the vast, vast majority of whom would be a waste of resources looking at.

Did you not get the memo???

European vacations are now limited to three weeks.

You can always schedule a follow-up trip in the following year to visit any museum that you may have missed!


GTsail

 

[Carbonox]

I had no idea your British pedophiles were so dangerous.

There was this Rotherham incident though, followed later by one in Bristol... maybe those guys aren't dangerous in the sense that they weren't going to spray the cops with assault rifles, but their various victims might still have gruesome stories to tell. Oh, and just by complete chance, almost none of the pedophiles had British or even European names.

 

[Fryto]

Regular police. But those are usually the ones responding first to any event, so give them a bit heavier weapons for as long as it's needed.

Definitely not going to happen over here

 

[Scaff]

There was this Rotherham incident though, followed later by one in Bristol... maybe those guys aren't dangerous in the sense that they weren't going to spray the cops with assault rifles, but their various victims might still have gruesome stories to tell. Oh, and just by complete chance, almost none of the pedophiles had British or even European names.

And all of the victims of pedophiles with British and European names?

Is their suffering somehow less because they don't meet your own agenda? Are they less dangerous?

1 in 20 children in the UK are a victim of sexual abuse and 90% of them knew their attacker, given that Muslims make up less than 5% of the population the maths becomes quite clear.

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-...d-sexual-abuse/sexual-abuse-facts-statistics/

Then again your favorite far-right sources will tend to gloss over and /or ignore the current historic child abuse investigation in the UK (that was perpetrated an a country wide scale for decades by rich, famous white people) or the members of far-right action groups with convictions for child sex offences.

You see despite the clear inference of you post, child abuse exists in every faith, culture and demographic.

 

[Dotini]

...child abuse exists in every faith, culture and demographic.

You need a better citation than what you have provided to make that statement.

 

[Joel]

Whether or not it's true for literally every faith to ever exist in history I don't think we need look any further than the Catholic church itself to dispel the idea that child abuse doesn't happen often among those with European names or ancestry.