Attention everyone - please read this!

[Black Chamber]

Okay - I am as disappointed as any Gran Turismo fan at the notoriously lack-luster Polyphony Digital/Sony TGS 2009 news, but there is absolutely nothing any of us can do about it.

I want to vent and discuss some issues I have with everything that has transpired over the last 4 years with all of you. I am still eager to play GT5 - but this whole situation over the past 3-4 years deserves a close inspection.

My concerns with this whole sordid issue are as follows:

• November 30th, 2009 – Sony executive in Europe mentions GT5 will “arrive at Christmas” during an interview with a financial magazine.
  
  My take: It isn't. The gentleman responsible for this quote isn't at fault for the misinformation - we all have been for misinformed for quite some time.
  
  
• June 4th, 2009 – Kazunori Yamauchi states: “We can release Gran Turismo 5 whenever we want.” during an E3 interview.
  
  My take: Either he meant the obvious assumption that it was ready for gold status and could be shipped at any time; or that they are going to take their sweet time with it and "release it whenever we want". Either way, it was misleading and bordering on flat-out lying, since we now know GT5 is only 65% done. Why even say that in the first place?
  
  
• August 2nd, 2009 – GTPlanet acquires internal company documents which clearly outline the date that Sony expects to release the game [and it was well within 2009].
  
  My take: Why change a good thing? Why put a fly in the ointment when everything looked so promising? I suppose early 2010 looks better financially for the greatest racing game ever made - but wouldn't any time be the perfect release window for that?
  
  
• August 22nd, 2009 – Kazunori Yamauchi states that “GT5 will be released shortly after this date [October 1st]” during an interview.
  
  My take: It should be noted that in Japanese press lingo, "shortly" and "soon" usually means "between 4-6 months"
  
  
• August 23rd, 2009 – Printed material distributed by Sony at the GamesCom 2009 conference, clearly indicate the game will be released during the fourth quarter of 2009.
  
  My take: Fourth quarter of the Sony fiscal year it seems. Sony and Polyphony Digital have gone beyond dropping the ball with this one. Not only is the game going for the Guinness world record for the longest development time, but they are also misleading the fans and deliberately not commenting on our speculation because the outcome [read: "release date"] will inevitably break our collective hearts. This was very misleading and they just should have said "March, 2010" to end all the buzz and speculation. Shame on you Sony and PD.
  
  
• September 3rd, 2009 - The "Major Advancement".
  
  In an interview with G4TV, Kazunori Yamauchi had this to say:
  
  G4: "What are your plans for Tokyo Game Show?"
  
  Yamauchi: "At E3, we showed a concept video and this time at Games-Com, we have a playable demo with damage, and I think you can expect a similar major advancement at TGS."
  
  My take: WTF?!?
  
  What was the "major advancement"?
  
  Was it to be disappointed, stunned, confused, betrayed and hurt? I was, so if that was the intent, they succeeded with flying colors. All Kazunori Yamauchi did was reiterate 99% of everything we knew from the "leaked" GamesCom features list; of which Kazunori Yamauchi himself said "everything you read on the site was true" - but apparently, it wasn't left at that. The 1% of the actual "new information" we got from his presentation, was that 50 vehicles have been removed from the initial 1,000 we were informed about a month ago.
  
  Aside from that, is the whole "20 locations/70 variations" track issue.
  
  If it were as simple as 20 countries with 70 tracks contained within those countries [the ideal theory] - then how hard would it have been to just say that and end all this confusing nonsense? If it is in fact only 20 tracks with 70 variations - then why not just say exactly that? By the way, if GT5 releases in March 2010, that will put the development time at over 6 years - does Polyphony Digital really think that only 20 tracks - no matter how many variations of each are included - is justification and a reward to the fans for all this time spent waiting just to play this game?

I digress.

I really wanted GT5 this year - like all of us did, but I had a nagging, persistent doubt that this year's TGS would be a travesty for the GT community - and it was.

What about weather effects [rain and snow] and night racing? Can they not even comment on those 2 features; especially when Kaz himself keeps bringing them up - specifically the weather effects - we have heard him talk about them for over 3 years now.....what is going on with it? Will it be in the game?!? If those 2 features are not in the game by March 2010 - there really is no excuse for their absence.

I know everyone here is crestfallen by all this bad press and lack of good news, but I really had to get this out and share it with everyone to see what this community thinks of all this. It's only 5 months until the "supposed" Japanese release of GT5 - but that doesn't mean anything for all the other territories. What happened to the "Simultaneous world-wide release" stuff?

This is all just so irritating!

So, what is GTPlanet's take on all this?

 

[killanite]

Again with the 6 years development assumptions... I can assure you PD weren't working on GT5 since 2003.

 

[daus26]

[*]August 23rd, 2009 – Printed material distributed by Sony at the GamesCom 2009 conference, clearly indicate the game will be released during the fourth quarter of 2009.

My take: Fourth quarter of the Sony fiscal year it seems. Sony and Polyphony Digital have gone beyond dropping the ball with this one. Not only is the game going for the Guinness world record for the longest development time, but they are also misleading the fans and deliberately not commenting on our speculation because the outcome [read: "release date"] will inevitably break our collective hearts. This was very misleading and they just should have said "March, 2010" to end all the buzz and speculation. Shame on you Sony and PD.

I don't think they would refer to Sony's fiscal year cause not as many are aware of it. Plus if it did, it's very misleading to put "2009" on it where they could have just said Q4 2010 if it did refer to their fiscal year. But then again, that would probably cause more panic cause many more would think about the year 2010. So yeah, I don't think it refers to Sony's fiscal year.

My take is that there was a change of plans and PD wanted to add on to it, thus a 65% is displayed. It can't be so much as a business window for a March 2010 release because 65% is too little for a 2009 release. They would need that much time anyway if it is really 65%.

 

[daus26]

Again with the 6 years development assumptions... I can assure you PD weren't working on GT5 since 2003.

2004 rather, but yes, your point is correct. 👍

 

[killanite]

2004 rather, but yes, your point is correct. 👍

2004? I doubt that highly as well... when GT4 was released in late 2004/mid 2005 (in europe).. I'd also like to remind you of Tourist trophy and GTPSP (as well as GT5 and GTHD but ill disregard those since they are related to GT5)
The total time spent on GT5 I'd suspect could be as little as 3-4 years.. I can assure you PD didn't start on GT5 as soon as they released GT4 especially since the PS3 wasn't out at the time and programming of games for the ps3 would've been even more difficult than it is now.

 

[daus26]

2004? I doubt that highly as well... when GT4 was released in late 2004/mid 2005 (in europe).. I'd also like to remind you of Tourist trophy and GTPSP (as well as GT5 and GTHD but ill disregard those since they are related to GT5)
The total time spent on GT5 I'd suspect could be as little as 3-4 years.. I can assure you PD didn't start on GT5 as soon as they released GT4 especially since the PS3 wasn't out at the time and programming of games for the ps3 would've been even more difficult than it is now.

Oh no. I think you misunderstood my post. What I meant is that I think the OP referred 6 years as from the year 2004-2010 rather than 2003-2009. You seem to corrected yourself here since you're saying 2004 and rather 2003.

If you read my other post, I'm completely against the whole GT5 5/6 years thing. Trust me. I put up the thumbsup because I agree with you, ya know.

 

[homeforsummer]

So, what is GTPlanet's take on all this?

I have two takes, if you'll indulge me:

- My sole reason for wanting PD to bring out the game any quicker than whenever they eventually release it is to see an end to threads moaning about said delays and release dates.

- If they told us that it was coming out in, I dunno, 2013, I'd probably be a bit disappointed, but it's not, it's more than likely due out next year at whatever point. In the meantime, I have a life to be getting on with which is more than good enough to fill the gap until GT5 arrives. I suggest others do the same, because it's much worse waiting for something when you're not doing anything in the first place than it is when you're busy as hell. If people have the time to create massive long rants (albeit well-written ones, which is a welcome change from the norm in the GT5 section, so for that I applaud you) then it's probably worthwhile finding something productive to do with your life in the meantime because I can imagine it's pretty tedious waiting around.

 

[RedBaron]

The total time spent on GT5 I'd suspect could be as little as 3-4 years.. I can assure you PD didn't start on GT5 as soon as they released GT4 especially since the PS3 wasn't out at the time and programming of games for the ps3 would've been even more difficult than it is now.

It's their choice what machine to use for GT, I couldn't care less. Excuses like difficult programming are totally ridiculous after five years. After their big mouth declarations like "soon after gtpsp" and "we can release it whenever we want" they seem to be in much worse situation, their progress in other things than graphics and car models is almost ZERO. I know that most of this forum are praising them for car models and that's enough, but they can't be further from truth. Now they are hurrying up to draw down a led of competition and god knows how it will end.

 

[killanite]

Oh no. I think you misunderstood my post. What I meant is that I think the OP referred 6 years as from the year 2004-2010 rather than 2003-2009. You seem to corrected yourself here since you're saying 2004 and rather 2003.

If you read my other post, I'm completely against the whole GT5 5/6 years thing. Trust me. I put up the thumbsup because I agree with you, ya know.

my bad. sorry if i seemed a little pushy.. I'm getting a little fed up with the amount of time people think GT5 has taken to make.. and it seems every month someone decides to increase that time by a year.

@ redbaron

That's your opinion, I think the physics have improved immensly as well as the sound (from playing GT5 in comparison to GT4) and ofcorse now we have an online system and all that in just the "prologue" in the game. I'd hardly call that ZERO progression.

 

[Black Chamber]

If people have the time to create massive long rants (albeit well-written ones, which is a welcome change from the norm in the GT5 section, so for that I applaud you) then it's probably worthwhile finding something productive to do with your life in the meantime because I can imagine it's pretty tedious waiting around.

👍 Thanks for the compliment!

I have had all of those thoughts running through my head since I heard about it yesterday. I have a life, but getting GT5 this year would have added to it - now, I feel depressed and honestly a little worried that rain and night racing aren't on Polyphony Digital's "to-do" list anymore.

 

[daus26]

It's their choice what machine to use for GT, I couldn't care less. Excuses like difficult programming are totally ridiculous after five years. After their big mouth declarations like "soon after gtpsp" and "we can release it whenever we want" they seem to be in much worse situation, their progress in other things than graphics and car models is almost ZERO.

I doubt "difficult programming" was ever the issue. Take it or not, having to work on Tourist Trophy/GTPSP/GT5P/GTHD and GT5 in 5 years since GT4 is not the same as having to work with just FM1/FM2/FM3. Even if GT5P and GTHD was part of the process, their plans for it (especially GTHD Premium/Classic plans) had enough of a effect to differ from to just working on a GT5 title alone, from the start in that 5 years time.

But seriously, why the heck does 5 years seem so impossibly long to some people? It's reasonable. Be thankful we at least have Prologue for something. There are many other franchises that have been in development just as long and have not joined this generation of console yet. Unlike us, they have nothing to gripe on.

 

[RedBaron]

But seriously, why the heck does 5 years seem so impossibly long to some people? It's reasonable. Be thankful we at least have Prologue for something.

Yes, of course! Develop it for at least 15 years, it would be just fine for you, won't it?

 

[Scaff]

It's their choice what machine to use for GT, I couldn't care less.

If you are refering to the fact that PD develop the GT series exclusively for Sony, then I think you will find they have NO choice in the matter at all.

PD are owned outright by Sony, always have been.


Scaff

 

[daus26]

Yes, of course! Develop it for at least 15 years, it would be just fine for you, won't it?

You took a bit of my post and referred to it, so I'm guessing that might be the reason why you completely missed my point.

If you get my point, then how the heck did you come up with the conclusion that I'd think 15 years would be fine for me?

 

[Alonsomania]

I doubt "difficult programming" was ever the issue. Take it or not, having to work on Tourist Trophy/GTPSP/GT5P/GTHD and GT5 in 5 years since GT4 is not the same as having to work with just FM1/FM2/FM3. Even if GT5P and GTHD was part of the process, their plans for it (especially GTHD Premium/Classic plans) had enough of a effect to differ from to just working on a GT5 title alone, from the start in that 5 years time.

But seriously, why the heck does 5 years seem so impossibly long to some people? It's reasonable. Be thankful we at least have Prologue for something. There are many other franchises that have been in development just as long and have not joined this generation of console yet. Unlike us, they have nothing to gripe on.

PD models everything themselves. T10 does not.

 

[RedBaron]

If you are refering to the fact that PD develop the GT series exclusively for Sony, then I think you will find they have NO choice in the matter at all.

PD are owned outright by Sony, always have been.


Scaff

Do you think Kaz and people in his team are their slaves and have to continue even with most useless machine of the world?

You took a bit of my post and referred to it, so I'm guessing that might be the reason why you completely missed my point.

If you get my point, then how the heck did you come up with the conclusion that I'd think 15 years would be fine for me?

Because you strangely defend PD in the second longest development in the world after Duke Nukem Forever?

 

[daus26]

Because you strangely defend PD in the second longest development in the world after Duke Nukem Forever?

Ok. Apparently you didn't get the point of my post. I'm not going to repeat myself so I'll just copy and paste:


Take it or not, having to work on Tourist Trophy/GTPSP/GT5P/GTHD and GT5 in 5 years since GT4 is not the same as having to work with just FM1/FM2/FM3. Even if GT5P and GTHD was part of the process, their plans for it (especially GTHD Premium/Classic plans) had enough of a effect to differ from to just working on a GT5 title alone from the start in that 5 years time.

There are many other franchises that have been in development just as long and have not joined this generation of console yet. Unlike us, they have nothing to gripe on. Just to add to this, these other games didn't even have any side projects, unlike PD.

Defending PD is the last of my intention. Unlike some, I look at things with their reasonings not just what it seems on the outside. Other than that, you sound just like the forum troll guy that got caught.

 

[Scaff]

Do you think Kaz and people in his team are their slaves and have to continue even with most useless machine of the world?

As the rights to the GT series are owned by Sony, the equipment they use to develop the game is owned by Sony and the funding for the development of the game comes from Sony (as PD is an in-house studio they fall under Sony financial control) then yes they do if they want to continue to develop the GT series.

Now stop with the flame bait and double posting.


Scaff

 

[paulpg87]

i'm getting bored of the lies of KY ..

 

[Snaeper]

Really, it all doesn't matter. I'd just hope for an explanation as to what happened with GT5. I'm sure all the changes and stuff that goes on behind the scenes would make a helluva documentary.

Otherwise life goes on. Fun fact: I did realize today that GT4 came out before I went into high school... I've since been graduated for 2 years now and GT5 is finally being announced.

 

[Coiler]

i'm getting bored of the lies of KY ..

Yeah, never cared less on the gt5 :/ Just went to the F3 forums and... The ingame LOD drops so much from the menu... damn theres no alternaive to gt5 for me :/

 

[Mr P510]

Still a few day to the end of TGS...Maybe the "Major Advancement" will be Reveled then.

 

[paulpg87]

Yeah, never cared less on the gt5 :/ Just went to the F3 forums and... The ingame LOD drops so much from the menu... damn theres no alternaive to gt5 for me :/

also for me.. i will wait gt5 but i'm get angry cause KY continues to lie and there is a big lack of information about THE game.

 

[homeforsummer]

i'm getting bored of the lies of KY ..

That's okay. KY's probably quite bored of people on forums moaning about things they know very little about.

 

[RedBaron]

That's okay. KY's probably quite bored of people on forums moaning about things they know very little about.

Maybe he should let us know something more? His statements are alway so confused that frustration of forum people is over the top. Half-truth is worse than lie.

 

[Stonemonkey]

I assume GT5 is going to be the only full GT game on the PS3 and I expect to be totally blown away by it from the development time and the fact that PD probably have much more in depth knowledge of the PS3 system than most other developers. Yes, I'm annoyed about the time it's taking but I can wait.

 

[Schmo]

Yeah, never cared less on the gt5 :/ Just went to the F3 forums and... The ingame LOD drops so much from the menu... damn theres no alternaive to gt5 for me :/

LOD? Level of detail? (Is that what you meant?)

I found the in game graphics not very impressive. But will reserve full judgment till its full release.

 

[Obli]

How long did Id Software take with Doom 3? 4 or 5 years? Since then, they haven't released another in-house developed game and Rage is expected 2010... it's not just GT games that take four or five years...

 

[Dr.Boss.]

The release date is not ideal; however, it is not the end of the world. the game is coming, its simply a waiting game.

What does bother me is the lack of new information. For the most part, TGS (the annual game conference where PD usually flexes their muscle the most) has given us nothing. Ok so a new mercedes and a new ferrari are in the game... Great, but, come on. No new trailers, no car list, no new significant features... PD (perhaps influenced by Sony marketing) really dropped the ball.

Oh, well. Uncharted 2 comes out in 2 weeks, that will take my mind off of this.

 

[ANFD]

I don't think they would refer to Sony's fiscal year cause not as many are aware of it. Plus if it did, it's very misleading to put "2009" on it where they could have just said Q4 2010 if it did refer to their fiscal year. But then again, that would probably cause more panic cause many more would think about the year 2010. So yeah, I don't think it refers to Sony's fiscal year.

My take is that there was a change of plans and PD wanted to add on to it, thus a 65% is displayed. It can't be so much as a business window for a March 2010 release because 65% is too little for a 2009 release. They would need that much time anyway if it is really 65%.

For what it's worth ..... March 31st is the end of most Japanese companies Fiscal year and next March would actually be the end of FY2009. For them to say Q4 of FY2010 would actually mean March (or the last quarter) of 2011