Attention everyone - please read this!

[tinram]

To make the wait a bit bearable ....

Get a quarter of nfs:shift, a quarter of Dirt2 and a smidgen of SuperCar Challenge and Viola!, you've got a recipe that will last at least till december

 

[Strittan]

I agree with every bit of your post Black Chamber! 👍

You guys who doesn't want to read all this whining can just look away. PD is disrespectful against their fans, and therefore I think we deserve to be a little pissed. Just as Black Chamber said, why can they not tell us anything!?!? I'm sick of the mind games they're playing.

PD and KY could at least tell us they're sorry for the wait, and tell us why it's delayed. That would save us a lot of guesses and speculation.

 

[Schmo]

I agree with every bit of your post Black Chamber! 👍

You guys who doesn't want to read all this whining can just look away. PD is disrespectful against their fans, and therefore I think we deserve to be a little pissed. Just as Black Chamber said, why can they not tell us anything!?!? I'm sick of the mind games they're playing.

PD and KY could at least tell us they're sorry for the wait, and tell us why it's delayed. That would save us a lot of guesses and speculation.

This is very true. I've never heard of a game company so secret about what it is doing. Forza's Gold already, its not like they are going to pull it back and add something they saw in GT.

 

[irnbrutwinturbo]

I agree with every bit of your post Black Chamber! 👍

You guys who doesn't want to read all this whining can just look away. PD is disrespectful against their fans, and therefore I think we deserve to be a little pissed. Just as Black Chamber said, why can they not tell us anything!?!? I'm sick of the mind games they're playing.

PD and KY could at least tell us they're sorry for the wait, and tell us why it's delayed. That would save us a lot of guesses and speculation.

It really doesnt help when people make threads with titles that specifically invite everyones attention.

"Attention everyone - please read this!"

Im very surprised the mods have asked for the title to be changed.

Second to this, the first point the OP makes refers to a date in the future "november 2009" in his list. If everyone who agrees with him had actually read his post carefully, surely one of you could have pointed this out to him via PM.

Third, it isnt delayed. Until March 2010 passes, GT is perfectly on target officially.

Fourth, Sony Sorry? What for?

 

[Strittan]

To make the wait a bit bearable ....

Get a quarter of nfs:shift, a quarter of Dirt2 and a smidgen of SuperCar Challenge and Viola!, you've got a recipe that will last at least till december

No thanks.

My advice to you people who are sick of waiting, is to get a proper PC (if you have enough money) and some proper racing sims, such as GTR, rFactor, iRacing, Richard Burns Rally, Nascar Racing 2003 Season.

It really doesnt help when people make threads with titles that specifically invite everyones attention.

"Attention everyone - please read this!"

Fair enough, hehe.

 

[NBH]

They should have just released GT5 at some point this year and then used that as a platform to build on for GT6. Leave out the damage and add the extra features and get it out the door. They did that with GT1 to GT2 and GT3 to GT4 but this time they are seemingly trying to cram everything into GT5 in one hit. I'm sure it will be a great game but 5 years between versions of a game is pushing it a bit.

I am also a bit concerned about the lack of information. I was looking forward to the TGS info but after reading what happened I feel like I know nothing I didn't know already apart from the rough release date. It's a bit puzzling to me why they won't confirm simple information like the number of tracks for example. It just gives the impression that a lot of stuff is hanging in the balance as to whether it actually makes it into the final game.

 

[chepe371]

If you are refering to the fact that PD develop the GT series exclusively for Sony, then I think you will find they have NO choice in the matter at all.

PD are owned outright by Sony, always have been.


Scaff

Which is for the better, imagine waiting for a multi-platform game like this!

 

[tinram]

My advice to you people who are sick of waiting, is to get a proper PC (if you have enough money) and some proper racing sims, such as GTR, rFactor, iRacing, Richard Burns Rally, Nascar Racing 2003 Season.

I have a proper PCs and laptops but i use them for work. Games tend to be the ones to mess them up, thus the need to play on a console. Although, a dedicated game PC may be a nice idea, if my wife does not kill me first considering it will probably cost more than my other workstations and consoles

 

[Tenacious D]

Kazunori is giving an interview tomorrow, or maybe tonight for us in the west, so perhaps then you'll get your answers.

I wasn't going to participate in this because some of you guys appall me, but I'm going ahead for what it's worth.

Something is lacking in GT5 which a number of us are clamoring for, or perhaps several things. GTPSP was forced on Kaz and the team, and it did punch a pretty big hole in the development of GT5. By all accounts, getting GT4.5 onto the PSP was a huge struggle, and it wasn't entirely satisfactory, but this was a SONY decision. Maybe they looked at the sales figures of GT4, and knowing it was the biggest selling PS2 game for six months after its release told them they could release GT5 at any point, and missing Christmas would have no effect on sales as long as it was at least a couple of months afterward. They evidently see the PSP as a cash cow, and SONY does need money. It seems that they're happy to let the PS3 increase in sales gradually, so that costs of manufacturing go down a bit more by the time the other big blockbusters ship next year, especially GT5. At least that's my take on it, shelter GTPSP and the Go! so its sales aren't stomped on by GT5, and then Kaz insists that he be allowed to add content in that he expected the freedom to work on in the first place.

Keep in mind that a number of posters on boards all over as well as gaming journalists weren't pleased with what they were seeing in the demos. Naturally, the big point of contention was the damage build. We wanted damage on ALL cars, not "premium" or race cars only. And that's not the only thing a noisy crowd was clamoring for. We wanted time of day progression. We wanted weather, and really wanted dynamic weather that resembled real time conditions at real world tracks if possible. We wanted Racing Modification and Livery Painting. We wanted a lot of real world and fantasy tracks, and the tracks from past GTs. We wanted Season and possibly Career Mode. We wanted Team and League builder tools, and a robust online structure that would support online seasons with stat tracking. We wanted online selling, trading and gifting, with possible elements of cars like liveries and setups as well.

I don't think much of that is something you could safely patch in, especially weather, which is a huge addition to the game engine. A massive damage build probably isn't any easier. Downloadable tracks are a pain to integrate into a racing game. On Forza 2, they're practically worthless in single player mode, and keep in mind not all of us intend to spend our racing lives online. Just recall how many physics patches there were in FM2, how many leaderboard wipes, and there are STILL bugs which can't be patched evidently, such as the livery editor bug and garage scroll crashing. And keep in mind that software coded properly to START with is much more stable and bullet proof than software which is patched. Sometimes, patches need patches.

I'm sure this was all involved in the decision to hold off. What we're going to get when GT5 finally ships is a much better game. Waiting 60 months instead of 55, or 62 or whatever it is, isn't really such a big deal to me in order to have a Gran Turismo 5 the way it was meant to be.

Counter rant over.

 

[cudadude2]

They should have just released GT5 at some point this year and then used that as a platform to build on for GT6. Leave out the damage and add the extra features and get it out the door. They did that with GT1 to GT2 and GT3 to GT4 but this time they are seemingly trying to cram everything into GT5 in one hit. I'm sure it will be a great game but 5 years between versions of a game is pushing it a bit.

I am also a bit concerned about the lack of information. I was looking forward to the TGS info but after reading what happened I feel like I know nothing I didn't know already apart from the rough release date. It's a bit puzzling to me why they won't confirm simple information like the number of tracks for example. It just gives the impression that a lot of stuff is hanging in the balance as to whether it actually makes it into the final game.

because sony dosnt want anyone focusing on any featuire thats not on GTPSP. That is the only GT Sony wants people to focus on.

of coarse this is just my opinion, but it fits all the facts we have.

b

 

[regnar]

I had a little bit more expectations for TGS, trying to keep them realistic. TGS being the best place to show a game that's been in development for approx. 4 years, but after seeing the same track, Tokyo R246, & short announcement by Kazunori Yamauchi on GT5. It appears that the game is much further behind in development than is being outwardly expressed by PD.

I don't think the reason for delay was to fix the damage issue, as some have expressed. If that was the reason, in wouldn't explain why PD didn't display other aspects of the game or have other track(s) to race on at TGS, only the same one that was shown at GAMESCOM & Festival du Jeu. My concern is that we've have been shown very little visual evidence of what PD has been done up to this point, only feature lists that keep changing. I think GT Mobile became a much bigger project than first anticipated, a number of technical issues had to be overcome. TT, GTHD & GT5P all added to the delay. Even though I know PD hasn't given a date until now on GT5 release date.

Over the next few months if PD gives us very little info, then I expect the release date of march for Japan will slip and GT5 will be pushed back to later in 2010. I personally think the new date given was a target only.

This is almost like it's 1999, waiting for GT2000 release, but on a bigger scale.


On a positive note, I think the game will be worth the wait. Just want PD to keep us better informed.

 

[shawtyoner]

So is that it, there is nothing else coming from PD news wise from TGS?? What a waste of time then I think, they should not have bothered showing up at all and continued working on the game. Fingers crossed that something new comes out of this debacle.

 

[Black Chamber]

Because you strangely defend PD in the second longest development in the world after Duke Nukem Forever?

Duke Nukem Forever didn't ever release, so it holds the record for longest development time for a game that ended up not ever releasing. GT5 is going to be the record for a game that has taken the longest development time and will eventually release.

What does bother me is the lack of new information. For the most part, TGS (the annual game conference where PD usually flexes their muscle the most) has given us nothing. Ok so a new mercedes and a new ferrari are in the game... Great, but, come on. No new trailers, no car list, no new significant features... PD (perhaps influenced by Sony marketing) really dropped the ball.

Well said. This year's TGS is just, bad. This isn't just for Sony and Polyphony Digital; it seems like there is nothing there at all that is just overly "wowing" anybody. As for Polyphony Digital's aspect of it, the lack of anything significant in the form of news from the TGS is disappointing to say the least - especially when we were told by Kaz himself that we should expect something major there - and we received nothing.

I agree with every bit of your post Black Chamber! 👍

You guys who doesn't want to read all this whining can just look away. PD is disrespectful against their fans, and therefore I think we deserve to be a little pissed. Just as Black Chamber said, why can they not tell us anything!?!? I'm sick of the mind games they're playing.

PD and KY could at least tell us they're sorry for the wait, and tell us why it's delayed. That would save us a lot of guesses and speculation.

+1! 👍

Exactly! As far as the tracks issue goes, if it is 20 tracks with 70 variations - PD could have at least listed all 20 tracks, so it would allow us to see what they are and maybe end the confusion. Likewise, if it is actually 20 countries with 70 tracks, PD should list those countries and what tracks are contained in each to give the fans something to be excited about. Instead, they announced less than what we already knew and made us excited to wait for less than nothing.

This is very true. I've never heard of a game company so secret about what it is doing. Forza's Gold already, its not like they are going to pull it back and add something they saw in GT.

Case in point - rain and night racing. We have all heard for years now that these 2 features were going to be in the game. Are they still? We don't know, because Kaz won't say for certain - he keeps alluding that they are "working on it". Maybe if he stopped going to the Nurburgring and other press appearances he could keep up with the daily responsibilities of being GT5's producer and the game would be at least 80% done. [sarcasm]

I'm not furious or anything about all this - it's not like I am feverishly pacing around in circles wearing nothing but a pair of soiled underwear, drooling, babbling incoherently and swinging at thin air [besides, I'm not that good at doing the Dan Greenawalt impression anyway] - I am just disappointed and I get the feeling all of you are as well. I just wish that Kaz and PD would be a bit more forthcoming on the full features of GT5 - tracks, vehicles, rain and night racing, livery editor, license plate customization, etc.

What is the big secret at this point?

 

[888 Tuning]

Why was it so important that you had to ask everybody to read what is nothing more than a rant? So many people here carry on like they are shareholders in PD and that GT is the only game that matters....the web is full of forums like this one where members fill the pages whinging and bashing the software company....PD is no different from any other company when it comes software delays.

 

[JamboGT]

Why did I have to read this?

 

[Black Chamber]

Why was it so important that you had to ask everybody to read what is nothing more than a rant? So many people here carry on like they are shareholders in PD and that GT is the only game that matters....the web is full of forums like this one where members fill the pages whinging and bashing the software company....PD is no different from any other company when it comes software delays.

My "rant" isn't just face-value; it is comprised of things everyone was aware of and are angry about now. We were told one thing and then shown another - and most of it was negative. Misdirection should only be used in magic tricks, not for marketing. Take the March 2010 Japan release date - GT5 probably won't make that one either. As for North America and Europe - there is no telling when we will finally get this game in our hands. I really can't trust PD and their release dates anymore. Can anyone?

Were we lied to as customers and fans? Absolutely and not at all.

Was the truth bent slightly to give us hope of features and release dates? 100% and without a doubt.

Will I still buy GT5 whenever it finally releases? Absolutely! I will buy GTPSP also. I am not a hater - I am a HUGE Gran Turismo fan - but I just feel lied to and let down by all this nonsense. I'm sure most of the GTPlanet forum users will agree with my sentiments regarding this.

Why did I have to read this?

You didn't.

I said to everyone "please read this" not "you have to read this, or else!"

 

[IsmokeGT]

About the 4th quarter deal- December and March are both in the 4th quarter.

Please read that again!

Im not a mathematician (like my grandfather) but I am fairly certain a Quarter of 1 year is 3 months. December 15 - March 15 is, wait for it, wait for it... 3 months!

I know GTPlanet is all holy in the eyes of speculators, but they only gave the Japan release date. Facts are Facts, there is no US/EU release date yet.

 

[Tenacious D]

Well, the 4th quarter in mention is 4th quarter 2009, which ends at midnight Dec 31st. The calendar year has nothing to do with the fiscal year.

In any case, I suggest that people be happy that we're going to get an even more polished game than we would have. Which is a very good thing.

 

[BlackZ28]

To the OP:
your post was well written and certainly has my approval in every aspect.
I have been waiting patiently; I have always felt that a game should be in development as long as need be for sake of the best final product possible. This, this is seriously long overdue. I feel there are no reasons for a delay at this point. Release the game already, only a few (us) can appreciate the extra effort. If it's not ready, be open about the issues for the delay.
Lastly, I would like to see GT6 as a launch title for PS4. I certainly don't feel that's too much to ask for.

 

[IsmokeGT]

Well, the 4th quarter in mention is 4th quarter 2009, which ends at midnight Dec 31st. The calendar year has nothing to do with the fiscal year.

haha, BUT mid Dec and Mid march are both in the last quarter of the 2009 fiscal year, thats why I mentioned it.

It is obvious they didnt mean calender year, obviously. SO I explained how the rest of the world can still get a 2009 calender year release date.

Japan's release date is in the 2010 calender year, so dont worry about the 4th quarter calender year. 👍 If I need to word it differently just quote me and respond with something like you did earlier.

 

[Lernatix]

I pretty much got a PS3 for this game, not entirely but mostly.
It's still not out, I fear my PS3 will die before it gets released.

If they just released what they had, I would buy it. And then
happily wait for GT6 with "extra stuff" that's holding GT5 back now.

I am left with a bad taste in my mouth. PD better give us some
more updates to GT5P to keep us playing or I fear they will lose
quite a few "fans" who just buy other games and forget about GT.

I am REALLY hoping that this is just some borked attempt at
throwing the competition off guard and the release will come
at X-mas time. Not holding my breath however.

 

[Devedander]

haha, BUT mid Dec and Mid march are both in the last quarter of the 2009 fiscal year, thats why I mentioned it.

It is obvious they didnt mean calender year, obviously. SO I explained how the rest of the world can still get a 2009 calender year release date.

Japan's release date is in the 2010 calender year, so dont worry about the 4th quarter calender year. 👍 If I need to word it differently just quote me and respond with something like you did earlier.

It's only obvious it didn't turn out to be 2009. This doesn't mean they necessarily didn't mean 2009 calendar year when they said it.

While I suppose it's true that it falls into the financial year, it's just so abnormmal to refer to fiscal year over calendar year while announcing a release date (has it ever been done?) that it seems like grasping at straws to go down this road.

Much more likely that it was just saying what they hoped to be true then revising it when they couldn't meet the date.

 

[IsmokeGT]

It's only obvious it didn't turn out to be 2009. This doesn't mean they necessarily didn't mean 2009 calendar year when they said it.

While I suppose it's true that it falls into the financial year, it's just so abnormmal to refer to fiscal year over calendar year while announcing a release date (has it ever been done?) that it seems like grasping at straws to go down this road.

Much more likely that it was just saying what they hoped to be true then revising it when they couldn't meet the date.

According to your logic, In 1 month they pushed the release date back 3+ months. That is illogical. No possible way did they guess it would be done in 4 months but really they needed 8 months, no way. Consequently, it is obvious they didnt mean the calender year.

 

[Devedander]

According to your logic, In 1 month they pushed the release date back 3+ months. That is illogical. No possible way did they guess it would be done in 4 months but really they needed 8 months, no way. Consequently, it is obvious they didnt mean the calender year.

Please explain how that logic works and why it's not possible?

You can't hit an unnexpected snag that sets you back a few months? You can't be working on overcoming some tricky programing which your coder estimates as a 2 month job but turns out to be much more complicated?

I know for a fact that when repairing computers I constantly run into a job which looks very much like a 3 hour job, but around 2.5 hours you realize it's just not happening, new stuff popped up, some spyware is just way more dug in that you could have realized, some company doesn't have drivers for download anymore and now it's a big needle in a haystack hunt...

It's very possible PD knew the date was going to be pushed back, but not by how far, so they just kept on rollilng along with their previous date until a more firm date could be arrived at. If you have to change your expected release date, it's perfectly reasonable to wait until the last possible second to decide on the new release date. I know that when fixing computers, the longer you give me to dig around, the more accurate my estimate will be. After all, if your coders are telling you "look we hit some problems, we don't know how long it will take, but it ain't happening this month" would you say "OK I am immediately going to go out and tell everyone" or would you say "we gotta make a statement at TGS, get working and give me your best guess come the week before TGS when you have as much info as you can, no use guessing this far out when we don't have to say anything until then"?

It happens all over the place, houses take longer to build than expected, work on your car takes longer than thought... and it's not at all uncommon to not hear about it until the 11th hour because up until then there is always the possibility that if you just gas it, work fast and put in overitme maybe you can still hit the deadline...

I'm sorry but you are makinng a guess as to what's likely, then saying based on that whats possible. You seem to be finding a possibilty to support your belief, and then because it's possible, stating it's true.

 

[IsmokeGT]

I dont know what is true. I know 1 month ago they said 4th quarter of 2009, and even with Japn's release date of March 2010 that we could get GT5 in 2009 and that it would still hold true to the 4th quarter 2009 quote.

You are right about what the knew a month ago, I have no idea what tribulations they may have run across. Then again, they did confirm a release date one month after they gave us a time period, so I am inclined to believe I am still correct.

 

[Devedander]

I dont know what is true. I know 1 month ago they said 4th quarter of 2009, and even with Japn's release date of March 2010 that we could get GT5 in 2009 and that it would still hold true to the 4th quarter 2009 quote.

You are right about what the knew a month ago, I have no idea what tribulations they may have run across. Then again, they did confirm a release date one month after they gave us a time period, so I am inclined to believe I am still correct.

It's possible you are correct, and if so KY and PD are pretty slimy for playing that game becuase there is no way they didn't know what they were doing.

I tend to believe that is less likely than that they just aren't making their expected dates and have to revise them.

As long as you don't try to say that you are certain it happened that way or that there is no possible way they guessed 4 months but needed 8 (consider I think a while back they guessed 2008 release but obviously turns out they needed more time) then who's to say... it's just when you discount other points of view or possibilities because you know they aren't possible... well

 

[IsmokeGT]

"We can release the game at any time" KY. Dont forget that line.

I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks PD (who has been working for 5 years on 1 game) could be mistaken by 4 months in 1 month. It isnt impossible, but it is improbable.

Another point in my favor- Japan is a rather small fraction of GT sales, so if they say 4th quarter of 2009 and they release it in March in Japan, and December of 2009 everywhere else then they would have only offended that rather small fraction. Also the population that is offened is more likely to forgive PD.

 

[Devedander]

"We can release the game at any time" KY. Dont forget that line.

I don't think anyone has forgotten that line...

And there is a point at which I could move into a house being built at any time... but if I move in too early the wiring won't be done yet and the HVAC might not be setup.

Honestly I think that statement by KY is your worst enemy in this case, because realistically, if he could have released at anytime he wanted to in the manner you are alluding to, you have to assume for some reason he then WANTS to release in the middle of a year rather than in time for the xmas rush with the bonus of being alongside the PS3 slim price drop and with an opportunity to really steal some of F3's thunder... that just doesn't make sense.

I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks PD (who has been working for 5 years on 1 game) could be mistaken by 4 months in 1 month. It isnt impossible, but it is improbable.

I think you are assuming a lot about that 1 month thing. There are a lot of reasons that the relase date could still be wrong a month out... the least of which is that it's not so much a lie, but they are just taking their best guesses and there is no reason to revise your guess any sooner than you need to as it's likely to be more accurate the longer you wait to get it out. I posted one such scenario here https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=120722&page=3 Honestly I won't be suprised if we don't see a delay come march 2010... perhaps a Japanese release but with need for some nooteable DLC that will be in other regions relesae but force a delay there.

Another point in my favor- Japan is a rather small fraction of GT sales, so if they say 4th quarter of 2009 and they release it in March in Japan, and December of 2009 everywhere else then they would have only offended that rather small fraction. Also the population that is offened is more likely to forgive PD.

Now I think you are really reaching... you are now looking for ways that are possible rather than things that are likely. You are ignoring the "why" part of this equation. Why would you release mid 2010 in Japan and release 2009 in other regions? Ignore how forgiveable it is any who it offends, what is the reason for it and how is it possible? Essentially what could cause then to offend ANY region ANY amount if the game is ready to go in other regions?

 

[IsmokeGT]

Your house commet is again, illogical. You need inspections among other things before you are allowed to move into a new house.

I assume nothing. August 23rd they give a time period for release and 1 month later (almost to the day) they give a release date for Japan that still holds true to that time period.

Your last paragraph I shouldnt respond to, but I will spell it out for you. PSP GO is being released a month LATER in Japan than almost everywhere else. Why? I havent a clue.

Chill out, all I am saying is we could see a December release.

 

[Devedander]

Your house commet is again, illogical. You need inspections among other things before you are allowed to move into a new house.

If you are building a house on your own property, you can choose to move in without a roof if you want... it's not adviseable though, better to delay the move in until it's done right.

I assume nothing. August 23rd they give a time period for release and 1 month later (almost to the day) they give a release date for Japan that still holds true to that time period.

Yes it still holds true assuming you stretch it as much as you can and take it in a way that no one uses it but is technically possible.

You have a check for technically possible, but I without the check for reasonable or likely.

Your last paragraph I shouldnt respond to, but I will spell it out for you. PSP GO is being released a month LATER in Japan than almost everywhere else. Why? I havent a clue.

Some time for licensing or marketing reasons is normal, I was talking about a 3+ month gap like this. There are much more reasonable issues that are out there for GT5 to be just released later than the assumption that pissing off Japan is forgiveable.

Chill out, all I am saying is we could see a December release.

Oh I agree, we could. Anythings possible, we could walk into stores tomorrow and see a suprise shelf full of GT5 boxes.

I am just saying it's unlikely and unreasonable, and the theory you put forward for the date thing I feel is not high on the reasonableness factor all else considered.