BMW M League anyone interested???

[cjs959]

BMW M Series testing

Car: M5 '08

Specs
510hp/8000rpm 392ft-lb/6000rpm 1855kg FR 516PP 3.637 hp/kg Sports Soft tires

Track: Laguna Seca
Best lap: 1:33:870

Notes: Slight "BMW" understeer. Slight power on over steer. Overall felt well balanced but a little heavy.

Car: M3 Coupe '07
Specs
463hp/7800rpm 335ft-lb/4600rpm 1469kg FR 516PP 3.172 hp/kg sports soft tires

Track: Laguna Seca
Best Lap: 1:33:986

Notes: Felt very well balanced with minimal understeer, slight power on "twitch" (minimal oversteer)

Car: Z4 M Coupe '08

Specs
443hp/8500rpm 314ft-lb/5900rpm FR 1315kg 516PP 2.968hp/kg sports soft tires

Track: Laguna Seca
Best time: 1:34:242

Notes: felt the lightest and most "fun". I didn't manage to put down as clean of laps as the others so there's definetly still some time to pick up. The only downfall of the Z4 is it's week brakes, the key is to brake earlier but with less force (definetly a momentum car). Keep your momentum up and drive clean.

So ya, I hope this helps show ya how even these cars are for me. The Z4 is a little harder (for me) to drive because of how differently you have to drive it. Once you get the feel of it though its the most fun for sure. And like I said, my laps in the Z4 weren't as clean as my laps in the M5 or M3 so they're even closer than my lap times suggest (the Z4 could even be the fastest with a cleaner lap). I was driving all of these cars with the same set up I was talking about earlier (no suspension, drivetrain mods). A 1:33:870 to 1:34:242 range... that's under .400 a second diffrence, can't get much closer IMO. Now, on to test the CSL, GTR, and M Coupe (E46).

 

[cjs959]

Maybe you haven't mastered how to drive the Z4, it could be our track selections... but I know I can quicker in the Z4 (yes with practice I could get quicker in all of them, but there's more room for me to get quicker in the Z4 than the others).

 

[redcouch1212]

Thats very close, so are you sugguesting this league not allow fully adjustable susupension and tranny upgrades? Cause that could make things even acording to your tests.

 

[redcouch1212]

Maybe you haven't mastered how to drive the Z4, it could be our track selections... but I know I can quicker in the Z4 (yes with practice I could get quicker in all of them, but there's more room for me to get quicker in the Z4 than the others).

In teh Z4M at Indy I had the same paced lap as the rest of the cars. The thing is with the fully adjustable suspension even though it has the same sutup(allegedly) as the stock suspension it does drive differently. Cars drive more predictably when you outfit them with full adjsut suspension as opposed to stock, and to be honest with you it was easier to drive the Z4M than the M3 07. We'll see after my next testing, I might change my upgrades to match the likelyness of the future rules as well as keep the cars even more evenly matched.

 

[cjs959]

No i'm not suggesting that. I would like to see Fully adjustable suspensions in the league. Just testing with stock suspensions for a more consistant test. A fully adjustable suspension changes everything, the point of a fully adjustable suspension is to tune it to your individual driving style and to try and find a way to make the car quicker for YOURSELF. Testing these cars with a stock suspension shows how even these cars are while making minimal changes (a base). After we add a fully adjustable suspension for the races everyone will be able to set up their car to their liking and try to find extra time by doing so. If we were to test with fully adjustable suspension it would hide how even these cars are (everyones suspension settings with an adjustable suspension vary). That's why I don't like the idea of testing with a fully adjustable suspension (it could hide or exploit a cars/drivers strengths and weaknesses).

As far as Drivetrain mods I would either like none allowed or only an LSD.

 

[cjs959]

In teh Z4M at Indy I had the same paced lap as the rest of the cars. The thing is with the fully adjustable suspension even though it has the same sutup(allegedly) as the stock suspension it does drive differently. Cars drive more predictably when you outfit them with full adjsut suspension as opposed to stock, and to be honest with you it was easier to drive the Z4M than the M3 07. We'll see after my next testing, I might change my upgrades to match the likelyness of the future rules as well as keep the cars even more evenly matched.

That's the problem, once you install a fully adjustable suspension the default settings are not what the car was "stock". Even though you haven't tuned the adjustable suspension it isn't the same as the cars factory suspension. That's what i was trying to say earlier. The fully adjustable suspension (even left at default) changes everything.

 

[Talon]

And again, tires must be Racing Hards. It doesnt matter if these are street cars, every car in SuperGT, LeMans, etc are street cars so how is that a valid arguement? Not to mention 500PP mean we will be modding these cars a bit, and the HP ratings will be 450-500, you need grip to handle that power. Dont worry about making this so much about skill and car control, you're just making it way too difficult for everyone to come out of that first corner.

Racing tires will ruin this series, and I will not be taking part if racing tires are the choice. I know for a fact that I'm not the only one thinking this way, also. Even sports soft are on the limit of being too grippy, sports medium seem to be the sweet spot.

 

[cjs959]

Racing tires will ruin this series, and I will not be taking part if racing tires are the choice. I know for a fact that I'm not the only one thinking this way, also. Even sports soft are on the limit of being too grippy, sports medium seem to be the sweet spot.

Don't worry about it Talon, my mind is pretty well made up on sports tires

 

[Talon]

Sweet. 👍

I'm open for some testing right now if anyone else is interested?

 

[redcouch1212]

I see what you are saying, but the problem is you can't weed out this problem you're addressing. Leaving the stock suspension and doing tests doesnt give any more generalized results reguarding driving style or talent, than putting on full adjust suspension and leaving it alone. The car can't be more suited for my driving style by using fully adjustable suspension until I start tweaking it, so its of no difference to me, or anyone else, if you test stock or full adjust. Default full adjust is just as evenly a "base" as stock is, however you'd might as well test with full adjust as a base since you pllan on having it in the rules.

The only way to hide any car's strengths or weaknesses is to tune the car to suit myself.

 

[cjs959]

Ya that is true... but not istalling any suspension just helped me with testing the GTR (road car). I only did an oil change, engine and chassis rebuild after buying it from the UCD. I just got done testing it and turned a 1:34:362 at Laguna. Because I didn't change the suspensions of any of the cars I tested I know that that is about the only weakness of the GTR...
M3 GTR specs...
391hp/7000rpm
300ft-lb/4500rpm
1350kg
504PP
3.452hp/kg

The car is very close to the '08 M5 as far as hp/kg, but it weighs 505kg less. So the room for increasing hp is pretty much none. Just a suspension upgrade is all that should be needed to make this car more competative (maybe even dominant) with the others. If I had a fully adjustable suspension in all of the cars i may not have been able to see so easily.

 

[cjs959]

Sweet. 👍

I'm open for some testing right now if anyone else is interested?

Don't take this the wrong way Talon, but I'm in a groove right now with testing (off-line). If I go online I wouldn't be able to leave the room to buy mods for the testing I'm doing right now. Once i get all of these cars tested I would like to open a lobby to let everyone rip em and see what you all think. We could also do some fine tuning from that point for on-line driving. That and I gotta force myself to get to bed pretty damn soon here.

 

[hamster1984]

If anyone wants to get a room going now Id probably be down.

 

[Talon]

Don't take this the wrong way Talon, but I'm in a groove right now with testing (off-line). If I go online I wouldn't be able to leave the room to buy mods for the testing I'm doing right now. Once i get all of these cars tested I would like to open a lobby to let everyone rip em and see what you all think. We could also do some fine tuning from that point for on-line driving. That and I gotta force myself to get to bed pretty damn soon here.

Gotcha, totally understand. Just let me know which ones slowest.

 

[redcouch1212]

Update on those votes, its looking alot different.

 

[Denilson]

Put me on that list, I'll be there for sure. I'll certainly be driving an E46, Not sure which of the 3 though.

And what a surprise, 1 vote for multiple PP ratings. I wonder who that is.

Since I've not voted yet, I wonder who that might be?? hmmm....

Think it's time for you (GrahamTurismo) to take on step back and leave the silly argumentation we had behind us. I have.

 

[Egghead43]

Gotcha, totally understand. Just let me know which ones slowest.

Me too, let me know which one nobody should bother driving

 

[cjs959]

BMW M Series testing
All cars tested under same driving aides (everything off except TCS set at 5, and ABS set at 1), sports soft tires.

Car: M5 '08

Specs
510hp/8000rpm 392ft-lb/6000rpm 1855kg FR 516PP 3.637 hp/kg Sports Soft tires

Track: Laguna Seca
Best lap: 1:33:870

Notes: Slight "BMW" understeer. Slight power on over steer. Overall felt well balanced but a little heavy.

Car: M3 Coupe '07
Specs
463hp/7800rpm 335ft-lb/4600rpm 1469kg FR 516PP 3.172 hp/kg sports soft tires

Track: Laguna Seca
Best Lap: 1:33:986

Notes: Felt very well balanced with minimal understeer, slight power on "twitch" (minimal oversteer)

Car: Z4 M Coupe '08

Specs
443hp/8500rpm 314ft-lb/5900rpm FR 1315kg 516PP 2.968hp/kg sports soft tires

Track: Laguna Seca
Best time: 1:34:242

Notes: felt the lightest and most "fun". I didn't manage to put down as clean of laps as the others so there's definetly still some time to pick up. The only downfall of the Z4 is it's week brakes, the key is to brake earlier but with less force (definetly a momentum car). Keep your momentum up and drive clean.

Car: M3 GTR (road car)

Specs
391hp/700rpm 300ft-lb/4500rpm FR 1350kg 504PP 3.452hp/kg sports soft tires (car is stock, oil change, engine and chassis rebuild after purchasing in UCD)

Track: Laguna Seca
Best Time: 1:34:362

Notes: Suspension feels a little too soft and forgiving, I suspect with just a sportier suspension this car would be faster than the previous cars tested. The car has already got a hp/kg rivaling the ’08 M5 while remaining stock and 505kg less than the M5. I think minimal HP addition should be allowed (or increase ballast w/ increased HP).
Note to self: Re test with sport suspension.

Car: M3 CSL

Specs. (modded to nearly same specs as GTR, as the CSL has better suspension. The GTR should have nearly identical results as the CSL with a suspension upgrade)
390hp/8100rpm 297lb-ft/5100rpm 1355kg 504PP 3.47hp/kg sports soft tires

Track: Laguna Seca
Best Time: 1:34:063

Notes: Felt great with more speed available, easiest car to drive yet.

Will test the M coupe (E46) as soon as possible.

 

[cjs959]

Lap Time results
1) M5 ’08 1:33:870
2) M3 Coupe ’07 1:33:986
3) M3 CSL 1:34;063
4) Z4 M Coupe 1:34:242
5) M3 GTR (road car) 1:34:362

 

[Denilson]

Anyone racing/testing at the moment?

Anyone tested the Z3 coupe yet?

I got a room up for about 45 minutes

1472-6399-9009-5386-7220

 

[Denilson]

Did a few tests: I did 10 laps in each car. The times posted are my best times.

M3 CSL: Laguna Seca (on-line lobby/tyre/fuel off): 1:32.752
Sports Soft (nothing else touched)
370 hp
1385 kg
497 PP

Z3 M Coupe: Laguna Seca (on-line lobby/tyre/fuel off): 1:35.582
Sport Soft
Engine Stage 3
Tune Chip
Lightweight Reduction Stage 3
Lightweight Windows
375 hp
1220 kg
485 PP

 

[hamster1984]

1) CJS158 Car: TBD
2) DiegoC1980 Car: TBD
3) GrahamTurismo Car: E46 "Something"
4) Bimmerboy96 Car: TBD
5) nastradamus87 Car: TBD
6) redcouch1 Car:TBD
7)hamster1984 Car: Z4M
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)

Is this the right way to sign up?

 

[GrahamTurismo]

Since I've not voted yet, I wonder who that might be?? hmmm....

Think it's time for you (GrahamTurismo) to take on step back and leave the silly argumentation we had behind us. I have.

I don't even remember the point of it all. And based on your av, you look like a CSL guy. So what's the problem?

Just use that bad boy and don't worry if all the newer M cars are slower; that's not our problem. E46 for life! 👍

 

[Krizzay]

You can add me if tires are restricted to sport.

psn: Krizzay

 

[Egghead43]

You can add me if tires are restricted to sport.

psn: Krizzay

Add me too (assuming we're on sport tires). 👍

psn: GTP_Egghead
Car: The slowest one

 

[GTsach]

PSN:sach22

 

[Talon]

I'm in, you probably all knew that by now.

PSN: Counter_Steer
Car: Z4 M

 

[GrayFox32]

I'm in.

PSN: GrayFox32

Car: M3 Coupe '07

 

[Krizzay]

Sorry, I forgot to put in my car choise. It' probably going to be a csl or z4 m coupe.

 

[Denilson]

I don't even remember the point of it all. And based on your av, you look like a CSL guy. So what's the problem?

Just use that bad boy and don't worry if all the newer M cars are slower; that's not our problem. E46 for life! 👍

The "newer" M's will never be M's to me.. To heavy.. And yes, I'm thinking about the CSL. But I still want the grid to be as equal as possible but still diverse. I was thinking about using the Z3 M Coupe, but the one I tested above was as high as I could get as far as PP goes. Will a wing add PP? If not, or not enough, I guess the Z3 M Coupe is to slow for this Championship which is a shame since that car is just awsome IRL! Something that really bothers me is the fact that the CSL is equipped with the standard 19" wheels that comes with the standard Coupe. The wheels that the GTR got is the correct model for the CSL as well.. It's a detail, but I really hate that PD did miss that! The magnesium 19" wheels are lightweight wheels and shoul ofc be equipped on the CSL since that's where they came from. I might go with the GTR, but I need to paint is Saphire schwartz if I'm going to use it 👍

And the Z3 got more HP/Weight ratio than the CSL, but still are 3 seconds off. And I don't think we should put down all M's to that PP level just to keep it in the series.. It's simply to slow.