Boston Bombing, Boston Marathon April 15th

[dylansan]

I feel like this conversation has come up before prisonermonkeys, and you were one of the few people who agreed with me.

This whole event is a tragedy. Not just the fact that it happened, but the fact that it's possible for people to grow up (not even fully) to do such a thing. When these people were born they had no desire to harm anyone, but somehow during the course of their life they developed some ideas that allowed them to commit this terrible crime.

Anger is expected, you can't control your emotions after all, but I find that the most important thing to focus on is preventing this from happening again, by trying to understand what was going through their minds and how they developed the mentality they have.

Killing them will alleviate our anger and make us feel better, but it does nothing to solve the overall problem which is that perfectly neutral children can become killers and we have very little understanding of how. Maybe there will never be a world where no one grows up to be criminals, but that's the goal I think we should be aiming for most fervently.

If there were a way to get this kid to realize what he did was wrong, that would satisfy me a million times more than just killing him.

 

[Dean]

He is alive i custody!!!!!!!

Good thing they got him alive!

You get the same CNN as I do in Germany?

I guess he've got the same one as me; CNN International (with London and CET timing) .

You can be proud Caz, you guys handled this situation wonderfully.

That, I can only agree with.
Now, I'll have to watch the news for another 7 hours to get up-to-date with this situation .

- Do they know more about Tamalan?

 

[Rage Racer]

*Facepalm* He was from Chechnya, a country that borders Russia to the north and is mostly Islamic. They are like Muslim Russians. Russia had a war with them, which resulted in Chechnya's victory. Kinda like Kosovo and Serbia.

Well, you probably don't know that thing well.
Chechnya is a republic which is a part of Russia. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, it was governed by separatists lead by Djokhar Dudayev. There were two wars, in 1994 (ended in 1996) and in 1999 (formally it ended in 2009 in Chechnya, but in fact it is still going in the other Caucasus republics like Dagestan and Ingushetia, as the terrorists are still active there).

It's not like Kosovo in Serbia, it is part of RF and now governed by Ramzan Kadyrov, who is loyal to Putin.
It's more like Northern Ireland in UK, which is suffered terrorist violence, too, but still under control of the British authorities.

These guys (Tsarnayev brothers) who are suspected in the Boston bombing came to US from Kazakhstan, where their family ran away to from war in 90's.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Russia had a war with them, which resulted in Chechnya's victory.

If Chechnya had won the war, they would be recognised as an independent nation today. But they're not - Chechnya is still considered part of Russia.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Official charity set up by city of boston within 24 hoirs of bombing
http://onefundboston.org/

Where's the charity for the 13 dead and 200 injured, and all those people who've lost their homes in Texas?

 

[Yukon]

Well, I'm just glad he's been captured - alive.

I didn't fancy staying up last night to watch as it would only end in one of two ways. Dead or Alive. So it's good it's the latter.

Every man dies. It's inevitable. That's no reason to hasten or facilitate it. Instead, lock him up and throw away the key. Spare no expense in showing him humanity when he himself is inhumane, and he will spend the rest of his life in misery.

Indeed.

I don't think he'll realise this straight away. Over time he'll come to realise what a complete mess he's made of himself and that there's no way to ever take it all back. He's going to live a slow and painful life, where it feels like his time will never end. That is, unless, he's sentenced to death, which I have a feeling may happen soon enough.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That is, unless, he's sentenced to death, which I have a feeling may happen soon enough.

Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty.

It's possible that they could make a federal case out of it, because there is a provision for federal prionsers to be executed. However, only three federal prisoners have been executed since 1963 - and Zacarias Moussaoui, the twentieth hijacker in the September Eleven attacks, is not one of them (he's currently serving life imprisonment).

 

[Caz]

Where's the charity for the 13 dead and 200 injured, and all those people who've lost their homes in Texas?

I dont know. This isnt that thread...

But im sure one will be set up soon enough.

News related to both texas and boston.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/1...rns-home-to-texas-to-witness-plant-explosion/


Texas
Edit: its glenn beck but Mercury One is accepting donations for texas.

Willie nelson is holding a fundraiser on april 28th.

 

[Motorcycle54]

Let him know that you value his.

To put it kindly, we live in a world where many things are true at the same time, but we are forced to deal with them one by one.
So the problem with the shooter at Newtown was mental. He had mental issues. The Boston bombers had mental issues of a different kind. Since we as a society cannot make mental problems or distorted beliefs illegal or impossible, we are stuck with dealing with their consequences in indirect ways. And indirect solutions = disagreements. The NRA washington lobby is proof of that.

I actually think the quote above is beautiful. I do.
I also think that the brothers, in this case, initiated a bomb attack and then a separate killing or two, and then a shootout at 1am on a residential street.
At no time during the firefight, when more than 200 rounds were being fired, would the sentiment of 'let him know that you value his life' fit into that ongoing situation (that the brothers themselves initiated.)
Its an abstraction that needs quiet time to construct.

Anyway, through freak luck, brother #2 survived. So sure, let him be treated accoring to state law. State law which differs on what justice even is, in a case like this.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So now the Chechens President, their aunt, and their father are claiming that they were framed.

Yeah right ..... OK .... they were framed. That's why they killed a police officer in a shootout, injured another officer, stole a car and held the man hostage, throwing explosives at police during the car chase, but yet they were framed. What else would you expect ? Of course their family is going to call frame.

Framed..... yeah.

Consider this: they are ethnic Chechens. And in Chechnya, the people often feel that they have reason to doubt the official version of events.

In 1999, a series of bombs tore apart buildings in three Russian cities. Nearly 300 people died, and over 600 were injured. The attacks were attributed to Chechen insurgents, and directly led to the Second Chechen War, which saw Russia re-establish control over the region after ten years of fighting and over fifty thousand dead (half of which were Chechen civilians). There are some people who believe that the bombings were orchestrated by the FSB - the Russian equivalent of the FBI - to establish support within the Russian public for the war in Chechnya. Alexander Litvinenko, the former spy who died of radiation position in London a few years ago, openly claimed that the FSB orchestrated the attacks, leading to conspiracy theories that the Russian government murdered him to cover it up. So you can see why Chechens may be predisposed towards suspicion.

When the family claims that the brothers Tsarnaev were set up, it may sound specious to you. But consider their origins - a world where the federal security services are not to be trusted, where the official version of events might be a sanitised half-truth, and where Chechens are the enemy simply because they are Chechens.

At the very least, one of their claims deserves to be heard: the demand to see the evidence. They have stated, unequivocally, that their will continue to believe in their sons' innocence until proof of their guilt is shown. It's the minimum that society demands for a conviction, anyway.

 

[Caz]

100% agree that the evidence needs to be seen. And i understand the peoples distrust of the govt.

There is edit: photo of suspect 2: with and without the backpacks on monday. There is no doubt they carjacked the mercedes, there is no doubt they were involved in a shoot out with police ( twice).
Rumored to have taken gunpowder,boxes of the same nails found on scene and in victims, and other bomb making evidence that is consistent with those used in mondays attack have been removed from suspect ones home.
The phrase beyond resonable doubt come into play.

Do i believe these 2 brothers did this. Yes i do. Do i believe the surviving brother deserves a fair trial, yes i do.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I dont know. This isnt that thread...

Which is my point. All this drama around the terroristic attack. I understand it, and I feel sorry for everyone involved. But the explosion in Texas has happened in the shadow of the bombing in Boston. This while, let's face it and be honest here, the situation in Texas is far worse then it is in Boston.

 

[niky]

The conspiracy-mongers make me sick. To discount the eyewitness testimony of so many civilians who these men put in harm's way.

Then again, tree are still those who think 9/11 was a CIA plot. People often vastly overestimate the ability of the government to plan these things, and underestimate the ability of radicals to carry them out. As with 9/11, the Boston bombings show that the simplest of plans can sometimes be the most effective.

-

The trial will be very interesting.

 

[Motorcycle54]

Which is my point? ..let's face it and be honest here, the situation in Texas is far worse then it is in Boston.

Dude. Sit quietly and be aware of your breathing. It happens effortlessly. And it will keep happening that way, until it stops. It happens effortlessly millions of times- but it only stops once. So, you know, theres every reason to be thankful for what you have/had. You got the better end of the deal.
And then consider the more than 7 billion people breathing in the world and consider the number that stop breathing every single hour. Its thousands.

So dont you ever say that this-and-that death toll is far worse than this-and-that one. Ok? Thats an extremely callous way to count meaning.

 

[Caz]

Which is my point. All this drama around the terroristic attack. I understand it, and I feel sorry for everyone involved. But the explosion in Texas has happened in the shadow of the bombing in Boston. This while, let's face it and be honest here, the situation in Texas is far worse then it is in Boston.

Your right. The texas tragedy is a huge ordeal, but it has its own thread and really should not be brought up here.

However, i did supply info on charities to donate to fornthe texas tragedy.

The difference between the two is obvious tho. Texas was a tragic accident while Boston was purposefully done.


Bram, why are you bringing texas up here when you havent even posted in that thread. Ill admit neither have I, but i have been concerned with the tragedy in my own back yard.

 

[Dotini]

The trial will be very interesting.

Senator Lindsey Graham wants to deny him Miranda rights and immediately treat the suspect, an American citizen, as an enemy combatant. That potentially means no trial, or a secret military tribunal.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/...miranda-rights-to-bombing-suspect-a-bad-idea/

Respectfully,
Steve

 

[Caz]

Senator Lindsay Graham wants to deny him Miranda rights and immediately treat the suspect, an American citizen, as an enemy combatant. That potentially means no trial, or a secret military tribunal.

Respectfully,
Steve

Thats a slippery discussion. While i feel he is essentially an enemy combatant, he is a us citizen and should be affoeded the same judiciary rights and sentencing of us citizens.
Before anybody calls out my "throw him to.the wolves" comment from last night, look at what happens to child molester in within the us prison system.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Lindsey Graham is also an idiot and is willing to create a slippery slope in which people will be denied basic due process. He is also an idiot because these two were found nowhere near a combat zone and was not targeting military people.

Can someone please tell Lindsey Graham that he's an idiot and has a girly name?

 

[Motorcycle54]

Can someone please tell Lindsey Graham that he's an idiot and has a girly name?

(laughing)

 

[nobuffalo]

There is video of them with and without the backpacks on monday.

Link please? I have only seen video with the bags.

Rumored to have taken gunpowder,boxes of the same nails found on scene and in victims, and other bomb making evidence that is consistent with those used in mondays attack have been removed from suspect ones home.

Link please? Also, after the media frenzy with this ordeal you should know not to believe rumors. I'm aware it's quite a big one to be just a rumor but still, I don't like rumors.

 

[Caz]

Link please? I have only seen video with the bags.

Link please? Also, after the media frenzy with this ordeal you should know not to believe rumors. I'm aware it's quite a big one to be just a rumor but still, I don't like rumors.

Ill try to find the no backpack pics.
As for the second, i will ask my wife where she heard it. That is why i clearly marked it as rumor.

 

[Slash]

Link please? I have only seen video with the bags.



Link please? Also, after the media frenzy with this ordeal you should know not to believe rumors. I'm aware it's quite a big one to be just a rumor but still, I don't like rumors.

That rumor was confirmed several times last night.


EDIT:


Why should he be denied his rights? He is entitled regardless of the crime just like every other citizen. Sure he did a lot of damage but to me it's the same if someone only killed one person. This is when the country needs to show we follow through with things like this.

 

[Caz]

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/suspect-2.jpg

http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/bomber-suspect-2-best.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/p480x480/69028_601736253172478_1412589090_n.jpg

 

[Motorcycle54]

That rumor was confirmed several times last night.

Yeah I heard it too- and it was from the horses mouth (not a horse but the colonel of the state police.)

 

[Rage Racer]

The terrorists from Caucasus were always a pain in Russia's ass. Remember the Moscow subway bombing in 2010, the bombing of Moscow's Domodedovo airport in 2011, and a lot more violence in Northern Caucasus, from which news about terrorist actions keep coming regularly.
Now, they've got their hands to US?.. This is unbelievable.

 

[Slash]

Yeah I didn't see the video. I wouldn't doubt it exists though.

 

[nobuffalo]

That rumor was confirmed several times last night.

I only ask because I have been following this pretty close and have heard no such thing, that doesn't mean I couldn't have easily missed it.

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/suspect-2.jpg

You said video, that is a picture and does not prove he doesn't have the bag. This is exactly how these rumors get started. The FBI did state there was video without the bags but I'm not sure why they did not release it but released the other. My apologies but it makes me a little curious.

 

[Caz]

No problem and i understand your concern. I canmot find video proof at this time and will esit my other post to reflect that.
If you have been following this thread you will see that i am not here to spread rumors, and if i posted rumor i was sure to mark it as such.

 

[Motorcycle54]

The FBI did state there was video without the bags but I'm not sure why they did not release it but released the other.

I'm not sure if I should just keep my big mouth shut or not, but look what happened when the FBI released the known video and asked the public for help: the brothers freaked out, knowing they were totally exposed, and did some more killing. If the FBI released a video that showed the bomb being dropped off by brother #2 ..you never know if some angry citizen would lash out at the brothers family in Boston. Not cool. Lets face it, video of the brother actually setting the bomb down is extremely volatile stuff. Unless there is some reason you must show it- dont show it. Wait for the trial.

remember: such a video would be scrutinized by the public/the media/us for the unsuspecting people standing right there and what they were thinking, the expressions on their faces ..the little boy smiling.

 

[Caz]

I agree^^
One of my fears going forward is the backlash from citizens on certain ethnic minority groups.

And now the idiots are starting with fake bomb threats.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/04/20/bomb-threat-at-bostons-south-station-transportation-hub/