Boy Shot Dead by Police for Holding Toy Gun

[Dennisch]

Even those fake weapons are illegal here.

Unless it looks like a supersoaker or nerf gun, you risk a fine walking down the street.

 

[niky]

Still will do it if the kid fired back, then he's got a real rifle, and I will fire some more until I hit him, if he dropped the gun, job done. This is if I was the cop

You're also assuming a hit to the leg is not fatal.

Hit someone in the femoral artery and they can bleed to death before the ambulance has left the hospital.

In this case, you are still potentially killing an innocent person, spreading indiscriminate fire downrange (in a residential neighborhood) as half your bullets miss their target, and exposing both yourself and any civilians in the area behind you, around you and up to a mile away to possible return fire.

Again. Basic weapons training: Do not discharge your firearm unless you are ready to kill. This is not pretty, it isn't fun and it isn't very nice, but doing anything else gets people killed.

Let's put it this way: Would you recommend leaving a suspicious package left at the airport alone just in case it isn't a bomb?

 

[Slash]

You're also assuming a hit to the leg is not fatal.

Hit someone in the femoral artery and they can bleed to death before the ambulance has left the hospital.

In this case, you are still potentially killing an innocent person, spreading indiscriminate fire downrange (in a residential neighborhood) as half your bullets miss their target, and exposing both yourself and any civilians in the area behind you, around you and up to a mile away to possible return fire.

Again. Basic weapons training: Do not discharge your firearm unless you are ready to kill. This is not pretty, it isn't fun and it isn't very nice, but doing anything else gets people killed.

Let's put it this way: Would you recommend leaving a suspicious package left at the airport alone just in case it isn't a bomb?

I was always taught to only point a firearm in a safe direction, and to never point it at anything you wouldn't be willing to destroy.

 

[phillgt2002]

I just heard of this. If I were an officer and I saw someone swing around with an AK47 as realistic as that, I would've gone straight for the pistol. The officer is not at fault. That rifle in the photo had an orange tip on it from the beginning. I think this is it.

 

[Jay.]

At the end of the day only an idiot would say no to a cop with a gun pointed at you.
As for kids with guns, Israel, Lebanon etc has plenty of them, some younger than 13. When firearms are so freely available not all are innocent.

 

[Grayfox]

If it was a BB gun.

I am pretty sure it is classed as a weapon so why did the kid have it?

If the parents gave the kid a gun like that they should be held accountable for any actions the kid does.

That kid that shot the teacher in the school, if he took it from his parents house because they were not responsible for the firearm, they should do the time for the crimes the kid did.

 

[Slash]

BB Guns aren't classed as firearms as far as I know because they simply aren't firearms.

 

[Grayfox]

Well that is just plain stupid.

It shoots projectiles,

 

[Scaff]

I would still shoot the leg, I'll take the risk rather than taking cover or a shot in the head or chest.

Then quite frankly you have never tried to hit a moving limb vs a centre mass of a target, nor do you have an understanding of the risks involved in what your are saying you would do.

Safe to say however that you would never then pass the qualification to ever get in that position as a law enforcement officer.

 

[Jay.]

UK law states that an imitation firearm is:

"anything which has the appearance of being a firearm whether or not it is capable of discharging any shot, bullet or missile”.

It is illegal for these to be carried or discharged in public.

Then quite frankly you have never tried to hit a moving limb vs a centre mass of a target,

I have been on many paintball skirmishes over the last 20 years or so, and trying to hit ANY moving target is not easy, so I can imagine trying to hit a moving target with a weapon that will kick your shoulder back would be a lot harder.

 

[BobK]

Toy guns that shoot suction cup darts aren't classified as firearms either. Are you suggesting they should be? They shoot projectiles, after all.

EDIT: So it would appear that in the UK, yes, they are?

It so happens, however, that some states do in fact (or did, anyway) classify BB guns as firearms.

Actually I'd like to know more about what happened here. Did the cops yell "dropitdropitdropit" and start shooting before the kid had a chance to react? Or did a cop shout "Will you please drop the weapon" and the kid turned and pointed it in the cop's direction? The story doesn't say either way, and I'm not going to guess.

Also, I wouldn't put too much faith in the picture in the article being the actual gun in question. More and more news stories add a picture because they seem they feel they have to, and it doesn't matter all that much if the actual picture used has much of a relationship to the story. "Kid shot while carrying toy gun? Here's a pic of a toy gun. Use it, too much trouble to find out what the kid was actually carrying. Besides, our pic is nice and scary looking."

 

[Stotty]

Yet another example of the negative side of America's obsession with guns.

RIP.

 

[Jay.]

Toy guns that shoot suction cup darts aren't classified as firearms either. Are you suggesting they should be? They shoot projectiles, after all.

EDIT: So it would appear that in the UK, yes, they are?

Most toy guns in the retail market that fire darts and suction cups don't actually look like real guns. They are normally brightly coloured and clearly look lightweight and plastic without the possibility of being considered dangerous. TB even posted links to show this.
If it looks like a toy and doesn't LOOK like a real firearm then it is not bound by the same law.

 

[Grayfox]

Toy guns that shoot suction cup darts aren't classified as firearms either. Are you suggesting they should be? They shoot projectiles, after all.

EDIT: So it would appear that in the UK, yes, they are?

It so happens, however, that some states do in fact (or did, anyway) classify BB guns as firearms.

The way slashfan responded saying it is not a firearm, there for not illegal.

Foam darts cant harm anyone.
Ball bearings can take someones eye out.

But each state has its law, so may be illegal one one, while legal in another.-

 

[BobK]

If the criterion is "it shoots projectiles" then the color shouldn't matter, should it?

And yes, people have been hurt by those suction cup darts. Comes under "fluke accident", but it happens.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Can't say I blame the cops, they had no way of knowing it was a toy.

Agree. Especially when the child was told to drop the toy weapon which looked exactly like a real gun. Children are just as dangerous with a real gun as adults. If a cop cant tell the difference, the child is a major threat to itself and others. / thread.

 

[Jay.]

If the criterion is "it shoots projectiles" then the color shouldn't matter, should it?

And yes, people have been hurt by those suction cup darts. Comes under "fluke accident", but it happens.

I think I see your point, but it's what the item is defined as.

"anything which has the appearance of being a firearm whether or not it is capable of discharging any shot, bullet or missile”. (UK law)

A Nerf gun and others like them clearly look like toys, as they are manufactured to be.

Now look at the pic below.... Which is real? because the other is a 'Toy'

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Exactly. There is a MASSIVE difference from that ^ to this.

 

[Jay.]

One is a real AK-47, the other is an IDENTICAL copy of the one held by the boy.
Notice there is NO red tip on the 'toy'.

Yes I feel for the parents but who is really to blame?
Our governments have allowed toys like this to be produced and sold worldwide.

 

[Dennisch]

How the hell can you buy something like that for a kid?? No wonder the kid got shot.

 

[Zenith]

Airsoft rifles and BB guns can only legally be purchased by adults, but adults normally purchase them for children.

Well that is just plain stupid.

It shoots projectiles,

The term firearm comes from the objects use of explosives to hurl a projectile. A BB gun used compressed air, not a firearm. It also doesn't make much sense to regulate BB guns the same as fully fledged guns. Do you really think background checks and waiting periods should be a part of BB gun purchases?

Still will do it if the kid fired back, then he's got a real rifle, and I will fire some more until I hit him, if he dropped the gun, job done. This is if I was the cop

Too. Many. Movies.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Too. Many. Movies.

Not all BB guns uses compressed air, Tokyo Marui made some awesome electric air soft gun, like the 1:1 M16 Golgo 13 replica. Any good firearm/air soft enthusiast would know the difference just by looking at the finish, details, scale and function. The flash hider usually standout most.

And still you have no idea why I am the way I am. You don't know anything about me.

 

[niky]

The reactions are because you show a lack of understanding of firearm safety and combat training.

Shooting people in the leg to disable them isn't something that happens in real life, except by accident, and even then, perpetrators who are shot in the leg can shoot back and sometimes kill officers.

Best case scenario, you break a leg bone or a kneecap, the perp drops, and has to fire from a prone position... from which he is harder to hit. This is not to mention the fact that the kneecap is a very small target to begin with.

Then of course, there is the possibility of hitting a major vein or artery and bleeding him to death. Which you could have done much easier with a body shot.

Worst case scenario, your bullet goes right through muscle tissue, the perp doesn't even notice it, and continues firing from an upright position. You're dead.

 

[Zenith]

Not all BB guns uses compressed air, Tokyo Marui made some awesome electric air soft gun, like the 1:1 M16 Golgo 13 replica.

Airsoft guns and BB guns are different things.

Any good firearm/air soft enthusiast would know the difference just by looking at the finish, details, scale and function. The flash hider usually standout most.

No.

Kids often paint the orange tip black. At that point this 1:1 scale airsoft gun:

Is practically indistinguishable from the real thing. If you think that you would be able to, you are hilariously delusional.

And still you have no idea why I am the way I am. You don't know anything about me.

I don't care. You insist that shooting the teen's legs is an effective alternative. People here who have forgotten more than you will ever know about firearms and terminal ballistics have told you otherwise and yet you persist. This has been outlined clearly.

It is extremely difficult, well outside the training of a law enforcement officer, to hit the legs of a moving target. A missed leg shot could hit anything, including people, hundreds of yards in the direction the shot was fired. A leg shot that manages to connect is at best likely to leave the teen with a disability for life, could kill him slowly and painfully, or could convince an actual gun wielder to shoot and kill the officers at which point they would be vulnerable because they took the idiotic move to try to use a gun as a non-lethal device.

If you continue to persist with your fantasy, then I'm afraid that I don't have the time or crayons to debate with you any further. You are wrong, stay in your lane and take a second to think about how little you know about what you are blabbering on about.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Ridox2JZGTE,
They are right, you are very wrong. Bottom line, the sheriff deputy told the kid TWICE to put the gun down that looked identical to an AK-47, the kid refused, pointed the gun at the officer, and got shot. No offense but you really need to quit replying and leave this thread. Just move on.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

@Zenith : All airsoft gun are BB guns, they usually fire plastic 6mm BB rounds. There are several types, gas blow back, spring, AEG ( Air Electric Gun ). And I have been around airsoft gun community since more than 10 years ago, they are different than the real deal, even on high end brand like TM with 1:1 scale. Any gun enthusiast should know straight away between airsoft and a real one. Most who never get to play with many types and brand of them would be fooled easily.

Thank you for pointing that I know little to nothing of what I am talking about, I would take the risk aiming at the leg, that is all. 👍

@Camaro : Me being wrong does not make me have to leave a thread. I merely stated that I would shoot in the leg if I were the cop, hate me all you like, I don't care.

 

[Joel]

@Zenith : All airsoft gun are BB guns, they usually fire plastic 6mm BB rounds. There are several types, gas blow back, spring, AEG ( Air Electric Gun ). And I have been around airsoft gun community since more than 10 years ago, they are different than the real deal, even on high end brand like TM with 1:1 scale. Any gun enthusiast should know straight away between airsoft and a real one. Most who never get to play with many types and brand of them would be fooled easily.

No they wouldn't. They'd know straight away if they were looking at the gun closely and holding it, but if they were 10-15 feet away with adrenaline pumping through them because there's a potential threat to their life, they aren't going to be able to tell the difference between a 1:1 scale airsoft gun and a real gun. I get that you know a lot about airsoft guns but the reality is that a 1:1 scale replica looks way too close to the real thing to screw around when someone could potentially be killed. Would you want to be the guy that said it was a toy and then watch your partner get killed?

@Camaro : Me being wrong does not make me have to leave a thread. I merely stated that I would shoot in the leg if I were the cop, hate me all you like, I don't care.

No you wouldn't. It's easy to sit here and say they should have shot him in the leg, but if you were actually faced with a scenario where someone is carrying what looks to be an AK-47 and isn't responding to you telling them to put it down, you're not going to pussy foot around and shoot them in the leg. If your life was actually on the line you'd be singing a different tune. Sure, if you were carrying a gun and had no firearms training besides airsoft then maybe you'd try to shoot them in the leg and potentially get yourself killed, but a trained police officer knows better. I get that you want to believe that you know better than trained law enforcement but the reality is you don't.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I would stick to my opinion Feel free to disagree and mock me or act like know all about me, even as far as saying what I would or would not do:tup:

 

[Joel]

I would stick to my opinion Feel free to disagree.

 

[nk4e]

I just saw this on Google news...

chron.com Sonoma County sheriff's deputy twice asked the boy, Andy Lopez, to drop the weapon, but instead he raised it in their direction, police said at a news conference Wednesday....."The deputy's mindset was that he was fearful that he was going to be shot," said Santa Rosa Police Lt. Paul Henry, whose agency is investigating the Tuesday afternoon shooting in Santa Rosa.....
The pellet gun did not have an orange tip like other replica firearms, including the plastic handgun found in the boy's waistband, police said.

It is just really sad that it ended like this.