Isla Vista Killing Rampage. May 23rd 2014

[a6m5]

This is exactly why I think prostitution needs to be decriminalised, destigmatised and available to pretty much everybody without them feeling like they have to hide from everyone or they're some sort of disgusting pervert.

If this kid got laid, I'd give high odds that none of this would have happened.

I don't blame real girls for not wanting to jump in his pants, he sounds like a total fruit basket. This is why we have professionals. The kid OBVIOUSLY has more money than sense; chuck some hot professional a couple of hundred a week, get his rocks off, life is peachy.

You can put up with a surprising amount of **** when you have hot women eager to have sex with you, even if it's only for your money. Shame nobody told him this, and shame that he was too dumb to figure it out for himself.

Frankly, he sounds like a complete pussy. Yeah, some people's lives suck. So do something about it. But when your problems consist of being forced to go to Morocco and not even first class, I think somebody needs to be thrown into the wilderness for a couple of weeks to learn real survival and reboot their priorities.

I couldn't disagree with you more on this one. I like the odds of him killing the prostitute over something she did, or didn't do better. In my view, only crazy people give up on opposite sex in their early twenties & start plotting murders, let alone rampage.

 

[Imari]

I couldn't disagree with you more on this one. I like the odds of him killing the prostitute over something she did, or didn't do better. In my view, only crazy people give up on opposite sex in their early twenties & start plotting murders, let alone rampage.

You're thinking street prostitution in a dark alley.

Legalised, non-stigmatised prostitution means it happens in the same sorts of places as therapeutic massages, beauty treatments, and all the rest of the bollocks that people don't really need but it makes them feel better about themselves. Probably in a shop, probably with lots of other people around, almost certainly with security on the door.

And honestly, prostitutes get a fair amount of people who are drunk, disorderly or otherwise looking to cause trouble, and they tend to be pretty sharp to it. I'd give a prostitute (who wasn't all whacked out on drugs or whatever) a better chance of seeing an attack coming and defending herself adequately than a random schoolgirl who thought he was holding an airsoft gun.


Yes, he was crazy as a loon. Doesn't mean that getting his end away wouldn't have helped him settle down a bit. It works for everyone else I know. Having a bad week? Get laid, suddenly things don't seem quite as bad.

The human body is programmed to tell you that you're doing good after you have sex, no matter how untrue it may be.

Again, not the smartest thing you could have said. By characterising him as "a pussy who took the easy way out", you only legitimise him because you represent everything he despised trying to marginalise his actions, which is what drove him over the edge. To his mind, your attitude would be proof that he was not only right, but that his actions were justified.

That's entirely the point though.

At this late stage of the game, ANYTHING anyone said to him would merely be confirmation. He was so far gone, that I fail to see how anyone could have talked him out of his delusion.

Even within his delusion, there were better options than killing a load of people. As I mentioned, finding a society that's more in line with his ideals (the Japanese have very high respect for intelligence and hard work, I'd start there), or simply setting up his own a la a hippie commune or something, but for intelligentsia.

But that would be hard work. He was a pussy that took the easy way out by just nerd raging all over everyone instead of actually working for what he believed in. I'll continue to marginalise his actions, as long as those actions are destructive towards others and not constructive to try and create the world he wants to live in.

 

[Azuremen]

You're thinking street prostitution in a dark alley.

I think the point is more this guy clearly had a lot of screws lose and that getting laid probably wouldn't have solved the issue.

Postponed? Perhaps.

 

[a6m5]

Exactly. I understand where Imari is coming from. I just think that, a psychopath with that degree of arrogance, there is no pleasing someone like that. If it weren't for the babes, or prostitutes, good chance he'd have gone off on his parents, people he went to school with, or worked with.

 

[Imari]

Exactly. I understand where Imari is coming from. I just think that, a psychopath with that degree of arrogance, there is no pleasing someone like that. If it weren't for the babes, or prostitutes, good chance he'd have gone off on his parents, people he went to school with, or worked with.

Certainly. While I couldn't say that available guilt-free sex would have necessarily helped this guy, because as you say he was a psychopath, I think that similar people could be avoid taking the same path he did.

There's always going to be someone with a level of crazy that is just beyond any help. But there are people below that who can be redirected and taught to live a life where they're relatively happy and in balance with the world around them, whatever that may be.

Which group this guy was in is debatable, but I sort of assume that at some point he was helpable, because otherwise there was nothing any of us could have done and the best solution would have been to lock him away. Maybe in the end he was always going to take out as many people as he could and then suicide. But it's really only after the fact that we can say that. As long as people are alive, it's natural to try to help them and to believe that they can make a change for the better, get their life under control.

Then again, he had apparently been diagnosed when he was young as having highly functional Aspergers. Social stuff was always likely to be a problem for him. Smart enough to reason out the problem, but not smart enough to reason out the limitations of his own mental disability/illness.


After watching some of his videos, he's a normal looking guy (apart from the whole dead eyes thing). He'd be perfectly capable of walking into a bar and chatting with some girls, if his personality wasn't busy getting in the way.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

He was a pussy that took the easy way out by just nerd raging all over everyone instead of actually working for what he believed in.

You keep saying that. I'm starting to think you're trying to convince yourself of it. If you have seen his video, there's no fear in it. It's deliberate, methodical, and unrelenting.

I'll continue to marginalise his actions, as long as those actions are destructive towards others and not constructive to try and create the world he wants to live in.

Which, in itself, is destructive towards others, and not at all constructive. Rodger is a dark outlier, to be sure - but you disagree with him and do not not understand him, so you have dumbed his motivations down and marginalised his actions. You have judged him based on his contribution to society in accordance with your defenition of what a constructive society is, and when it did not fit, you removed him from the equation. Which is effectively what he did.

Now, you didn't do that in the same way that he did - but you have marginalised both his actions and our response to those reactions. And those reactions are important, because the world needs to find a response to this to prevent its like from ever happening again. If nothing else, it is disrespectful to the families of the victims. You have turned a tragedy into a statistic, then decided that no reaction is the best reaction, because as their deaths were the result of an outlier, they do not mean anything.

So instead of writing him off as a loser or a pussy or a coward or whatever term you want to use, how about you at least acknowledge that, whatever his reasons, he had problems, and that if we want to learn and grow from this, then we can't dumb this down to the point where we simply write him off as everything people told him he was.

After all, one of his therapists is said to have reported his case to police on the grounds that he was a danger. Don't you think a better use of your time would be to question what kind of response they had to this?

 

[TenEightyOne]

That was a pathetic excuse for killing those people. If anything he should have worked on improving himself.

Watchng his video he came across as a petulant, immature child. Like a lot of men of that age... slightly late to leave the teens emotionally. The recurring theme of the whole speech seemed to be revenge on the girls he wanted who he couldn't have.

Blimey, welcome to growing up.

The normality ends when you realise he's become one of the tiny tiny percentage of people who will express the storm from themselves so terribly... and this isn't related at all to the perfectly normal teen-whinge of the video.

If this hadn't been his trigger-event then something else would have been, he was clearly a very very ill man under the veneer of semi-normality.

 

[Imari]

You keep saying that. I'm starting to think you're trying to convince yourself of it. If you have seen his video, there's no fear in it. It's deliberate, methodical, and unrelenting.

I've seen a video of someone with no compassion for others.

I never said he was in fear. I said he was a coward for choosing to destroy another man's society over building or finding his own.

Even from within his own weird framework of the world where he's a social outcast, that's cowardly. He lacked the courage necessary to do the hard things to make his life into what he wanted it to be. Nothing to do with fear, everything to do with courage.

Which, in itself, is destructive towards others, and not at all constructive. Rodger is a dark outlier, to be sure - but you disagree with him and do not not understand him, so you have dumbed his motivations down and marginalised his actions. You have judged him based on his contribution to society in accordance with your defenition of what a constructive society is, and when it did not fit, you removed him from the equation. Which is effectively what he did.

Now you've got to be kidding.

You're comparing me to a man who killed multiple people, simply because I say he was a coward for killing people?

Thanks, but you can stick that one up your bum.

His actions are not insignificant, they killed a bunch of people. Whatever his motivations were, the actions that resulted from them were, if anything, the most important part of this whole episode.

His actions were, however, the actions of a coward. The actions of a man who would rather approach a woman with a gun than with an open hand. His actions should not be glorified, they should be recognised as a wholly inappropriate response, both to the problems that he was having and to any problem that anyone is having.

You have turned a tragedy into a statistic, then decided that no reaction is the best reaction, because as their deaths were the result of an outlier, they do not mean anything.

You point me to exactly where I said that, or anything of the sort.

So instead of writing him off as a loser or a pussy or a coward or whatever term you want to use, how about you at least acknowledge that, whatever his reasons, he had problems, and that if we want to learn and grow from this, then we can't dumb this down to the point where we simply write him off as everything people told him he was.

He had problems. Everyone has problems. He may have had more than his fair share, and he may have had (almost certainly did have) mental problems that made it very difficult for him to deal with them in the same way that normal people might. I don't accept that his response to those problems is ever appropriate.

I hope that anyone who is in a similar position sees this as a chance to do better than this coward.

Me, I'd go for South Korea. First world. Good gaming culture, which he was obviously into. White guys are still rare enough that you'll have girls hanging around just because you're white. Easy enough to get random job teaching English, which guarantees you'll meet students and housewives.

Substitute any of a number of Asian, European, or South American countries as suits your tastes.

After all, one of his therapists is said to have reported his case to police on the grounds that he was a danger. Don't you think a better use of your time would be to question what kind of response they had to this?

Do they read GT Planet? Should I be questioning the police from here?


I don't know why you're attacking me, but you seem content to tell me that everything I say is wrong.

What would you say to the kid?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The full manifesto :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/225960813...s-shooting-suspect-My-Twisted-World-manifesto

More like his biography from his birth to death, interesting read from start to about halfway. I feel really sorry for him now

 

[mirial]

He was basically Mr. Nice guy, educated, good-looking, slightly different, living in a provincial but probably culturally incestuous area, in the wrong era, aiming for top-bracket women who like pigs, and was deeply, deeply frustrated with it all. Yep, I know what he means as I've been there, as have a couple of friends who have been strangers to the place where we live, but a stronger man takes to the challenge of addressing the problem, rather than complaining and shooting people up. I can't help thinking that somehow he's turned down lots of less attractive women along the way.....maybe someone could confirm?

Yes, slobs and losers with beautiful girls....it's common place, but that's the very attraction for women that have their choice. He should have moved to Asia (where they like nice men), or just aimed at his target market locally, ie. a bit lower with girls who don't flaunt it whilst trying to improve his technique to make up for a lesser personality.

 

[Carbonox]

I'll just drop in to mention that I have never gotten laid, but murdering random people for it - especially assuming the fault is in me - has never come to my mind, and this is coming from someone who threatened to kill or at least seriously harm his bullies in school back in 2007 after being driven to near insanity from the constant harassing. (If you want to know how the story ended, well, there was a school shooting in Finland in late 2007, and I sometimes wonder if people actually thought I'd do the same if they didn't quit, and that's what all of them did. Well, I'm happy to prove them wrong, I'm not a terrorist.)

By the way, my opinion on this fella? He's a pussy, just like any other similar people. And with the narcissism as a cherry on top, let's just say this kid was a lost deal from the very beginning.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Even from within his own weird framework of the world where he's a social outcast, that's cowardly. He lacked the courage necessary to do the hard things to make his life into what he wanted it to be. Nothing to do with fear, everything to do with courage.

Spoken like someone with zero experience dealing with mental health.

 

[homeforsummer]

He was basically Mr. Nice guy

No, he wasn't.

"Nice" people don't shoot people in revenge because they can't get laid. "Nice" people don't believe they're entitled to women because they're supposedly more intelligent than someone else, or because they're not black.

A "Mr. Nice Guy" character isn't the sort of person who plays the "woe is me" act in the first place. The general relationship thread on this very forum is full of Mr Nice Guys - generally teenagers - who wonder why they're not making it with girls, when really it's not because girls don't like nice guys, but because girls do like guys with a bit of substance. Nor are girls required to like anyone who is actually nice - mostly, they're just happy to be friends. I made the same wrong assumptions when I was a teenager but you generally grow out of it and stop being such a wet blanket.

But it's likely this guy was just a psychopath who'd built up this nice-guy persona around himself that he actually believed, and was probably a bit of a douche in real life. If girls didn't like him it's because his actual personality wasn't in the slightest bit nice.

Unfortunately, some of the images floating around the internet today have suggested far too many equally awful people actually have sympathy for the guy and are using it as an excuse to tell girls that this is the sort of thing that happens when they don't put out.

 

[Katiegan]

This terrifies me. My ex-boyfriend is like this (well, not killing people, but trying to get into the pants of every girl way too early and then making out as if they're the bad ones when they tell him to 🤬 off and that he's 'Mr. Nice Guy'). He has an illness causing him to feel nausea all the time, which he has blamed on me for breaking up with him. The thing is, it wasn't even a bad break-up, and we stayed good friends afterwards, until I found out he'd been telling everyone of what we did behind closed doors and started blaming his illnesses on me. I no longer talk to him, because he's become increasingly creepy.

For some strange reason, teenage boys (and the vast majority of regular faces in the General Relationship Thread) seem to think they have to get laid and have to get a girlfriend, otherwise they're seen as weak or pathetic. Constantly complaining that you didn't make it with a girl because you creepily put your arm around her after sitting next to her in class makes you pathetic. Getting a girlfriend won't make you 'popular' or 'cool'. You'll just be another guy with a lady. The fact that other 'forever alone' guys out there are sympathising with this guy is absolutely disgusting, and concerning. I hope to the heavens that this doesn't create some kind of cult of lonely creepy teens.

 

[homeforsummer]

I hope to the heavens that this doesn't create some kind of cult of lonely creepy teens.

I'm not sure they aren't already out there. People seem to have a massive sense of entitlement these days, and that the world owes them something. Seems to apply to everything from thinking they don't have to work hard to get somewhere in life, to apparently believing girls should like them even if they're actually massive bell-ends.

 

[Katiegan]

I'm not sure they aren't already out there. People seem to have a massive sense of entitlement these days, and that the world owes them something. Seems to apply to everything from thinking they don't have to work hard to get somewhere in life, to apparently believing girls should like them even if they're actually massive bell-ends.

Exactly. I don't understand why these 'forever alone' guys seems to think they're God's gift and that all the ladies should be flocking to them. Half of them don't even take good care of themselves, and then wonder why the girls don't like their new cologne called I Haven't Showered In Three Weeks. And the 'Friend Zone'? Don't even get me started on that.

 

[sparkytooth]

What really gets me is how he cracks up in laughter in the manifesto I heard last night.

I think he had more issues than not getting laid, something much earlier...

 

[DK]

A part of his 140 page manifesto :

http://fusion.net/justice/story/elliot-rodgers-entire-140-page-manifesto-now-online-713671



What a sick racist narcissistic young man, don't know if his childhood aspergers syndrome has anything to do with it or it's his up bringing The sad part is he sees himself as a victim ....

I wouldn't be surprised if he hung out in the darker corners of Reddit...a certain colour of pill comes to mind.

 

[Maccer_42]

Might be a tad inappropriate as he was a murderer.

Having watched most of his YouTube videos, they feel like a parody or something, they don't seem genuine to me, the way he talks about himself comes off as if he isn't serious and it's just an act.
But he was, which is quite frightening.

 

[Agent_47]

It sounds like he was just a crybaby that couldn't handle life and took others down with him.

I'm also curious to see how quickly someone will turn this into some gun control argument. Clearly this incident shows that gun control isn't working - at least not in California.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'm also curious to see how quickly someone will turn this into some gun control argument. Clearly this incident shows that gun control isn't working - at least not in California.

Despite my anti-gun stance I don't think that this shows a failure in gun control. It shows that on the rare occasions when somebody decides to murder other people they will do it. Access to a gun would have been pretty easy for this guy a think, in the absence of one he'd probably have bombed a prom.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I think this guy's biggest issue, besides this obviously, was that he never vocalized his problems to his parents or to the few friends he can connect with really. By problems I don't mean his thinking of being a virgin, but the deeper underlying issue of low self-confidence.

Honestly though, at his age, women should be the least of his concerns and be more concerned about himself and his future. But you can also fault the young male culture of having to have a girl and sexing (is that even a word) at every chance and being a virgin is being a nobody.

Hell I'm 24 and I'm one too but I don't give a 🤬 about not getting any. Like my dad said when I was about to leave for college and graduated high school with no girlfriend: You only get a few years to make something of yourself at school. You got an entire life to get a woman.

 

[a6m5]

Certainly. While I couldn't say that available guilt-free sex would have necessarily helped this guy, because as you say he was a psychopath, I think that similar people could be avoid taking the same path he did.

I can certainly see prostitution cutting down on assaults targeting women. Premeditated mass murder, not really, but that's just me.

 

[TenEightyOne]

You only get a few years to make something of yourself at school. You got an entire life to get a woman.

That's the right attitude. More on the subject (and a filthy translation of "Lemon Drizzle Cake" that has changed the way I see church fetes forever) in this topic, Why Are Wives So Inconsiderate?

 

[The Bman]

It's a shame that people have to resort to these kinds of sick acts because of their bitterness of sexual deprivation. Being an adolescent, I've had many a thought of sexuality (damn you hormones) but despite not having found a girlfriend (even if I found one, I wouldn't want to 'you-know-what' so soon) I'm not jumping to conclusions and saying, "I hate women! They should all be dead!".

Like the gunman, I have Asperger Syndrome. I have many feelings that he had regarding not 'fitting-in' and being socially ignored. Regardless of those feelings, is being prejudice necessary? Is wanting to kill people just to gain attention necessary? Find some friends, get out of the house and enjoy the world out there.

Narcissism is never a good thing. Hearing him call himself the 'Alpha Male' and the 'Superior One' is ridiculous. The main problem with narcissists is that they admire themselves too much to accept advice and help and would rather fantasize about their self-proclaimed superiority above everyone, thinking that they are a deity of sorts. I know what it's like to deal with a narcissist because I've lived with two of them.

But the damage has already been done. There's nothing we can do to reverse the past.

(Besides the point, but sorry if this sounded confusing. I'm not good at explaining things, but I hope you got my point.)

 

[sumbrownkid]

That's the right attitude. More on the subject (and a filthy translation of "Lemon Drizzle Cake" that has changed the way I see church fetes forever) in this topic, Why Are Wives So Inconsiderate?

I went into that topic with a clean mind.

Never again.

 

[Dan]

One thing that scares me is that some random news source will blame the entire thing on Asperger's Syndrome, then the gullible people that subscribe to the news source believe it, and in turn, lash out towards people with AS.

I have AS and it makes my social life fairly difficult. I have been rejected several times, but I don't want to hurt anyone or see someone being hurt. I'd much rather off myself than innocent people.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I hope it doesn't come to a point where you will off yourself Dan.

 

[DK]

I can certainly see prostitution cutting down on assaults targeting women. Premeditated mass murder, not really, but that's just me.

I wonder what happened to the serious crime (e.g. murder, rape, assault, kidnapping) rates among women when Amsterdam legalised prostitution.

I don't see this as a gun control issue, but more as a mental health issue. Even if he had no access to guns, if he still had that r/RedPill-on-meth mindset that led him to his implosive rampage, he could probably deal some serious damage with some other weapon like a knife.

 

[Ken]

I don't see this as a gun control issue, but more as a mental health issue. Even if he had no access to guns, if he still had that r/RedPill-on-meth mindset that led him to his implosive rampage, he could probably deal some serious damage with some other weapon like a knife.

Didn't he kill three people with a knife? Or has that stat changed with the fluid news? Plus, he ran down people with his car, which isn't a gun.

One thing that scares me is that some random news source will blame the entire thing on Asperger's Syndrome, then the gullible people that subscribe to the news source believe it, and in turn, lash out towards people with AS.

I have AS and it makes my social life fairly difficult. I have been rejected several times, but I don't want to hurt anyone or see someone being hurt. I'd much rather off myself than innocent people.

Of course media is going to blame everything on something ridiculous. Do you think they are going to go against the grain and speak the truth? If you the new culture, you are putting blame on everybody, which won't sell ad spots. If you blame it on just him being a nutjob, you have nothing to converse. You have to have something to blame, otherwise its not news worthy.