Britain - The Official Thread

  • Thread starter Ross
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How will you vote in the 2024 UK General Election?

  • Conservative Party

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Green Party

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Labour Party

    Votes: 14 48.3%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Other (Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland)

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • Other Independents

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other Parties

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Spoiled Ballot

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Will Not/Cannot Vote

    Votes: 8 27.6%

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
If this is the sort of news American's are getting then it's no wonder they have such a divide!



Anyone living in Britain whether you're Tory or Labour will vouch that this is absolutely 100% made up. What are they doing over there?!

Just mental. Absolutely mental.

Fox News lying...

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Most of world respects the UK as greatly favored by its education, opportunity and respect for human rights and dignity.
Do you know what the most common shared holiday is around the world? It's independence from the British. While we are not the worst in these regards, we most certainly are not the best.
Yet the candidates for PM have been uniformly condemned as human excrement on this forum.
Feel free to try and convince me their not.
The smartest and most favored people on Earth appear to be the most unhappy and resentful.
Who, what, where, how?
 
Comment: Most of world respects the UK as greatly favored by its education, opportunity and respect for human rights and dignity. Yet the candidates for PM have been uniformly condemned as human excrement on this forum. The smartest and most favored people on Earth appear to be the most unhappy and resentful.
I don't even know where to start with this. Have you ever been here?? Also, regarding the Tory candidates: Rishi Sunak, for starters, as Chancellor Of The Exchequer has been in charge of the nation's finances and taxes. Yet he is a multi-millionaire who has been holding onto his American green card for tax avoidance, along with having a multi-millionaire wife with non-domiciled status, avoiding millions in tax despite literally living at Number 11 Downing Street. This is the kind of behaviour, attitude and contempt for working people exemplified by the Conservative Party and no amount of tokenistic 'diversity' is going to change that.
 
Most of world respects the UK as greatly favored by its education, opportunity and respect for human rights and dignity. Yet the candidates for PM have been uniformly condemned as human excrement on this forum. The smartest and most favored people on Earth appear to be the most unhappy and resentful.
Seems to me there's a mismatch in between most of the world's perception, and the reality many of us see from day to day. Perhaps half the reason we're so 'resentful' is that we know the picture that some try and paint of the UK is basically lies that have little to do with reality, and this is likely done to undermine legitimate grievances with our society and our systems.

As for the state of the human excrement in the Conservative party... they're mostly **** because they didn't need to be good to get elected. The party got in based on ideological mandate (Brexit), not because they were good.
 
Who, what, where, how?
He's completely misinterpreted my earlier comment "ignorance is bliss" to mean "unhappy people are smart" rather than "British people know what's happening in their own country and are unhappy about it" as per @MatskiMonk's post.
 
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Comment: Most of world respects the UK as greatly favored by its education, opportunity and respect for human rights and dignity. Yet the candidates for PM have been uniformly condemned as human excrement on this forum. The smartest and most favored people on Earth appear to be the most unhappy and resentful.
Ok, I know you like to over dramatise and post some questionable content but this has to be the… I have no words really.

Currently I find nothing redeemable about any of the candidates. If I’m truthful nothing redeemable about the Conservative party one bit. This has nothing to do with anything you mention above, this has to do with how I feel about their ability to lead the country based on their past and present political actions.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Conservatives represent the plurality of the voters? Aren't they the ruling party? Aren't their leaders the ruling elite of the nation? If so, then it appears from the outside that the plurality of the UK is being portrayed as either literally excrement, or voting for criminals or human excrement; your elite, your highest achievers are, without exception, literally excrement! A minority of the nation is putting the plurality into the worst possible light, and it seems unnecessarily prejudicial to the best interests of your nation as a whole. To the outsider, it makes the smart people - and they are smart - who are doing this seem depressed, self-loathing, filled with relentless hatred and ultimately destructive of their own best interests.
 
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A minority of the nation is putting the plurality into the worst possible light
Even when true, this is not necessarily a bad thing. You are also grossly overlooking the distorted nature of the UK's first-past-the-post constituency-based electoral system. You know enough about gerrymandering in your own country to know better than that.
 
Even when true, this is not necessarily a bad thing. You are also grossly overlooking the distorted nature of the UK's first-past-the-post constituency-based electoral system. You know enough about gerrymandering in your own country to know better than that.
Extremely intelligent people, like yourself, should not publicly and reflexively label native Britons who happen to be Asians, blacks, women, military officers or others who happen to be Conservatives, as nothing, as non-humans, as nothing but excrement! It makes you seem to be foaming at the mouth with prejudice, and lacking any tact, taste, parental tutelage, formal education or understanding of common sense and common politeness. Just stop calling other human beings excrement, okay?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Conservatives represent the plurality of the voters?
A minority of the nation is putting the plurality into the worst possible light
You're mixing perspectives here. By the US definition the Conservatives might have a plurality of the voters, but only 29.3% of the electorate voted for a Conservative MP, therefore 70.7% of the electorate didn't vote for a Conservative MP - that's not a minority of people, and as I'm sure you're aware, we don't directly vote for a leader or for the people that fill positions in government or the cabinet.

And no... generally speaking the rest of your words don't reflect reality. So whilst your statements may appear reasonable, they're massively off base. An "Elite" leader is not the same thing as an "Elite" politician.

Just stop calling other human beings excrement, okay?
Perhaps if they stop treating the people they're supposed to serve as such, people might be less keen on doing it.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Conservatives represent the plurality of the voters? Aren't they the ruling party? Aren't their leaders the ruling elite of the nation? If so, then it appears from the outside that the plurality of the UK is being portrayed as either literally excrement, or voting for criminals or human excrement; your elite, your highest achievers are, without exception, literally excrement! A minority of the nation is putting the plurality into the worst possible light, and it seems unnecessarily prejudicial to the best interests of your nation as a whole. To the outsider, it makes the smart people - and they are smart - who are doing this seem depressed, self-loathing, filled with relentless hatred and ultimately destructive of their own best interests.
When elected in 2019 they had a 80-seat majority in Parliament which was 56.2% of all seats. That majority has since dropped by half a dozen seats as they keep losing by-elections. However, they got 43.6% of the popular vote to Labour's 32.1%, with a voter turnout of 67.3%, which equates to 29.3% of the total electorate, who themselves are approximately 70% of the entire population of the UK, voting Conservative, to Labour's 21.6%. So, 20.5% of the entire country voted Conservative, and 15.1% voted Labour*. Once the MPs have made all their endorsements and the eight Prime Ministerial candidates are whittled down to just two, the next Prime Minister will be decided by the approximately 200,000 Conservative Party members, 0.3% of the country, which I guess is still an upgrade from Supreme Court Justices being chosen by just one person.

If votes were directly proportional to seats, the Conservatives would have been 43 seats short of a majority, and the only way they could have secured a a majority would be to form a coalition with Labour, which would never happen, unless we go to war with Germany again; or with Liberal Democrats, which has been done, and doesn't need to be done again.

*This is not me endorsing allowing children et al. to vote, but it's just to make a point.
 
Perhaps if they stop treating the people they're supposed to serve as such, people might be less keen on doing it.
You're supposed to be better than that. In fact, Britain may be the richest, best educated and most pampered nation on Earth. But now you need to be served even better before you acknowledge the loyal opposition, actually ruling majority, as humans. Until they do you right, they stay nothing but excrement. Got it.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong
Will it do any good, or will you just quiet down on the subject for four months and then come back repeating the same original nonsense as usual?
don't the Conservatives represent the plurality of the voters?
Yes, although that's not how the UK election system works. They represent the plurality of the votes cast in a majority of the seats; that needn't be a plurality overall (and isn't the plurality of voters, which is almost always no vote). Minority government is also possible.
Aren't they the ruling party?
No. They're the party that has been allowed, by royal assent/convention, to create a government of ministers.
Aren't their leaders the ruling elite of the nation?
No - and I don't even know what that means in this context.

The incumbent Prime Minister, Alexander Boris dePfeffel Johnson, holds the position based on two primary factors, none of which are popular vote or "elite" status (whatever that means).

Firstly, he is an elected MP - for the seat he represents, Uxbridge and South Ruislip - which, as he represents the Conservative and Unionist Party that holds the majority of seats in Parliament, means he is one of around 300 people eligible for the role of Prime Minister.

He got the job by an internal Conservative and Unionist Party election in which only elected MPs for the party may vote. The election process requires candidates to be proposed and seconded, and garner the support of at least eight fellow MPs in total.

After that there's the exact type of election they won't allow the country to use to elect MPs: exhaustive balloting. MPs vote on the candidates, and any candidates who fail to secure a minimum threshold of votes are eliminated. This happens again and again until only two candidates remain.

These two candidates are then put to a vote of registered Party members (around 160,000 people), with the candidate receiving the majority of the votes being elected as the Party leader. As the Party was in Government at the time, the leader would also assume the role of Prime Minister without a public election.

This is also what will happen this time round.

Subsequent to the 2019 Conservative Party Leadership Election, Johnson called a General Election and was re-elected to his seat. As a majority of constituencies also elected Conservative and Unionist Party candidates, he returned to the post of Prime Minister; as the leader of the party with the most seats in Parliament, the Queen asks him to form a Government.

If so, then it appears from the outside that the plurality of the UK is being portrayed as either literally excrement, or voting for criminals or human excrement.
No, not really.

I mean, it was triceratops dung for starters. But also no; the Conservative Party leader is selected by 300 MPs and voted on by 160,000 registered Party members. Each individual in it has between 20,000 and 40,000 votes in their own local constituencies.

The Prime Minister is not directly voted in by the public. The person who will be the next Prime Minister will not be voted in by the public directly or indirectly, but by a tiny handful of people.

Your elite, your highest achievers
Again, meaningless drivel.

Johnson has effectively been parachuted into every job he's ever had, courtesy of the "old boys" network of Eton, and largely failed at all of them. I don't know what he's "achieved" in order to be one of our "highest achievers", but they're hardly earned.

He's also a pretty reprehensible human being, having an affair with his current wife (Symonds) while his then-current wife (Wheeler) was undergoing treatment for cervical cancer - and he'd married her after having an affair with her, only two weeks after ditching his previous wife (Mostyn-Owen), because she (Wheeler) was pregnant. That was one of at least three affairs he had while married to Wheeler.


The candidates to replace him include a former chancellor with a highly questionable personal tax status (retaining foreign citizenship and claiming non-domicilary status through his wife while living in 11 Downing Street), an attorney-general with scant legal experience (becoming a QC only when appointed AG) and a dose of J"K" Rowling fangirling, and the utterly useless Truss and Hunt. Can't say I've heard of Madenoch before.

should not publicly and reflexively label native Britons who happen to be Asians, blacks, women, military officers or others who happen to be Conservatives, as nothing, as non-humans, as nothing but excrement! It makes you seem to be foaming at the mouth with prejudice
Cool. Lessons in prejudice from the guy who just casually dropped Asian racial stereotypes and then doubled down on it. Also "blacks"? :| And when did "military officers" become a protected characteristic?
You're supposed to be better than that.
Cool. Lessons in being "better than that" from the guy who just casually dropped Asian racial stereotypes and then doubled down on it.
 
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You know enough about gerrymandering in your own country to know better than that.
That's a bold assumption...

It makes you seem to be foaming at the mouth with prejudice, and lacking any tact, taste, parental tutelage, formal education or understanding of common sense and common politeness.
No, it doesn't.
Just stop calling other human beings excrement, okay?
If it quacks like a duck...

Anyway Boris was technically also American until 2016, so maybe you would like him back.
 
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I fail to comprehend how I can be accused of racism (3 times!) when all I said was that Liz Truss and the 3 Asian candidates would all be good choices for PM. It does not compute.
 
You're supposed to be better than that
Being better than that would be to donate to the foodbanks that are now having to serve 2.1 million Britons whilst calling the self-serving Bullingdon Boys Club liars, shysters and ***** because they're responsible for eroding our freedoms, democracy and productivity as a nation for what can only be their own personal betterment - not to just ignore it because things could be worse from the perspective of an American.

Even if you take the good things we are as a nation, it's inherited wealth - the current government didn't earn it for us, and neither did the current generation. It's an accumulation of generations of things we like to talk about, whilst sweeping the stuff we don't under the rug.
 
I fail to comprehend how I can be accused of racism (3 times!) when all I said was that Liz Truss and the 3 Asian candidates would all be good choices for PM. It does not compute.
You didn't say that though.

What you said was that the UK needed "a South East Asian", neatly lumping together literally every South East Asian person as if their singular unified mindset is what the UK needs.

Then you doubled down on that by saying we needed their more outward perspective and not the "insular focus you'd get with a native". Can someone of "South East Asian" origin not be a UK native? You're sure suggesting it there.

Racism on top of racism - and I even gave you a get-out which you reacted to but neither recognised nor took:

If you can't see your way clear to her, I would suggest a South East Asian.
Any particular one, or just grab one off the streets or a dinghy?
My rationale is that the UK needs leadership more oriented to the outside world, and not with such insular focus you'd get with a native.
As a further note, none of the candidates are "South East Asian" or of "South East Asian" origin, so I've literally no idea which of the candidates are the three you're claiming you said but didn't.

Kemi Badenoch was born in Wimbledon (a "native") to Nigerian-origin parents (it's unclear if they were native, naturalised, or immigrants).
Suella Braverman was born in Harrow (also a native), to Kenyan and Mauritian parents.
Former candidate Sajid Javid was born in Rochdale (also a native), to Pakistani Punjabi parents who emigrated before he was born.
Rishi Sunak was born in Southampton (also a native), to Indian-origin parents who were born in Africa (Kenya and Tanzania).
Nadhim Zahawi was born in Baghdad to Kurdish parents who fled the Hussein regime for the UK in 1979 and is a naturalised citizen.


South-East Asia covers Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, and the islands and states of the Malay archiepelago - Indonesia, Philippines, Singapore, Brunei, and East Timor. It does not include India, Pakistan, Mauritius, Kenya, Tanzania, Nigeria, or sodding Iraq, most of which aren't even on the same continent.
 
And folks wonder why the great British public have no confidence in the Government... :rolleyes:

Penny Mordaunt is now odds-on favourite to win the Leadership race after the first ballot today, which indicated that she would beat any other candidate in a 1-1 battle...

That said, only 1 in 7 of Conservative voters could even name her if shown a picture of her... which may explain why she is relatively popular..

 
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I took the effort to single out a woman and the three native born gentlemen of generally Asian descent for my recommendation to the highest office in your land - and that makes me a racist? No, it does not. I was literally repeating 100% exactly what BBC America said on US TV the very morning before. Does anyone of note call BBC racist? I don't think so.

On the other hand, several of the otherwise most intelligent forum members identified, some by image and some verbally, all 7 candidates as nothing but feces, depriving of all of them of their humanity, dignity and human rights of the most basic sort, the right to be recognized as a human being. And yet no one word of contrition by any of them or their many supporters.

I may be totally isolated in this situation, an unwelcome foreigner in a British thread. I understand that only too thoroughly. Even so, I'm proud of my statement, and ashamed for the dishonor some have brought upon this forum.
 
I took the effort to single out a woman and the three native born gentlemen of generally Asian descent for my recommendation to the highest office in your land - and that makes me a racist? No, it does not.
That's not what you said.
I was literally repeating 100% exactly what BBC America said on US TV the very morning before. Does anyone of note call BBC racist? I don't think so.
Oh dear...

On the other hand, several of the otherwise most intelligent forum members identified, some by image and some verbally, all 7 candidates as nothing but feces, depriving of all of them of their humanity, dignity and human rights of the most basic sort, the right to be recognized as a human being. And yet no one word of contrition by any of them or their many supporters.
Now I know that Americans sometimes get accused of not getting sarcasm or humour, but you're taking it a bit far now.
I may be totally isolated in this situation, an unwelcome foreigner in a British thread. I understand that only too thoroughly. Even so, I'm proud of my statement, and ashamed for the dishonor some have brought upon this forum.
That's not the reason at all, it's more the repeated nonsense you post, often opinion dressed up as fact, and you then double/triple down on it.
 
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I took the effort to single out a woman and the three native born gentlemen of generally Asian descent for my recommendation to the highest office in your land - and that makes me a racist? No, it does not.
Cool retcon. Didn't happen - and I already quoted what did happen.
If you can't see your way clear to her, I would suggest a South East Asian.
Any particular one, or just grab one off the streets or a dinghy?
My rationale is that the UK needs leadership more oriented to the outside world, and not with such insular focus you'd get with a native.
You said we need "a South East Asian", grouping an entire region of very distinct peoples together for no good reason. You doubled down on that by saying we didn't need the "insular focus you'd get with a native", disregarding the concept of people being of "South East Asian" origin and UK natives. And there's not even a "South East Asian" candidate anywhere in there.

Now you've tried "three Asian candidates" (walking back the "South East" part by pretending it never happened) when there's two candidates of Asian background, and "three native born gentlemen of generally Asian descent" when there's one (Africa isn't in Asia, Kemi Badenoch isn't a gentleman, and Nadhim Zahawi isn't native-born - and Sajid Javid withdrew 24 hours before your post).


You're literally just stacking sweeping, inaccurate statements centered on race on top of each other in a giant, horrifying house of race cards, while pretending the bottom layers don't exist.

If you had taken "the effort" you wouldn't have made your awful first post. Everything since that's been pretty disgusting.

Perhaps you should be a candidate too.
 
Results from the first ballot in the Conservative leadership race:

Rishi Sunak - 88
Penny Mordaunt - 67
Liz Truss - 50
Kemi Badenoch - 40
Tom Tugendhat - 37
Suella Braverman - 32
____

Nadhim Zahawi - 25 - withdrawn
Jeremy Hunt - 18 - withdrawn

Good to know that no single candidate can muster more than a quarter of their own party to vote for them :lol:
 
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Results from the first ballot in the Conservative leadership race:

Rishi Sunak - 88
Penny Mordaunt - 67
Liz Truss - 50
Kemi Badenoch - 40
Tom Tugendhat - 37
Suella Braverman - 32
____

Nadhim Zahawi - 25 - withdrawn
Jeremy Hunt - 18 - withdrawn

Good to know that no single candidate can muster more than a quarter of their own party to vote for them :lol:
Distressing that Hunt could find 18 people to vote for him though. Still, at least with the Anglo-French Tugendhat still in there's four Asian gentlemen left.

Weird that Mordaunt seems to be a favourite. Wonder if she'd have to quit the Naval Reserve - can't see a Prime Minister being called up for combat somehow...
 

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