Bulls will get horses for power!!

[MJW]

Some news about RedBull:

RedBull will race with Ferrari engines in the 2006 season! 👍

I hope they will be better than Sauber with these engines.

 

[Jacks]

Damn i was going to post this but i've been moving house today. Anyway they should do better then sauber as from next year they will be using the V8 engines, currently sauber's ferrari engines are a year out of date, but red bull racing will have the exact same engine and gearbox as the ferrari at the start of next year. Obviously ferrari will have more money to develop it futher from then so they will still be faster.

 

[ExigeEvan]

The reasoning behind it is that it would be too expensive for red bull to design and build their own V8 so they've signed with Ferrari instead.

But you have to remember engine aren't everything in F1, tyres and aerodynamics are also vital.

 

[Jacks]

The reasoning behind it is that it would be too expensive for red bull to design and build their own V8 so they've signed with Ferrari instead.

But you have to remember engine aren't everything in F1, tyres and aerodynamics are also vital.

Maybe so, but at the moment RBR are using the exact same engine as the minardis, need i say more. Also the 2.4L V8's that they're using next year are basically the 3.0L v10's with 2 cylinders (0.3L each) cut off the end (basically), they did this to reduce costs, so it won't cost too much to develop a new engine if they had an old one to work with (but i know what you mean as RBR are using a cosworth engine this year).

Also i have found out sauber will not be using ferrari engines next year although i'm not sure what engines they will be using.

 

[MagpieRacer]

i dont like the V8 idea, it could make it too slow imho

 

[Jacks]

i dont like the V8 idea, it could make it too slow imho

Thats what people said about the tyres having to last a whole race, and engines having to last two races. It hasn't slowed them down much. Give it a year and they'll be doing the same lap times as this year. I mean it's only a loss of 600cc.

 

[kensei]

Sauber getting BMW power is much more interesting....

 

[fangorn_forest]

Damn i was going to post this but i've been moving house today. Anyway they should do better then sauber as from next year they will be using the V8 engines, currently sauber's ferrari engines are a year out of date, but red bull racing will have the exact same engine and gearbox as the ferrari at the start of next year. Obviously ferrari will have more money to develop it futher from then so they will still be faster.

Sauber has had the 055 engine from the start of this year, it was in fact Ferrari, who were using the 053 engine, that were a year out of date. But of course, now they have there F2005 with the 055.

 

[Jacks]

Sauber has had the 055 engine from the start of this year, it was in fact Ferrari, who were using the 053 engine, that were a year out of date. But of course, now they have there F2005 with the 055.

Oh didn't know that, i know sauber always used to have an older ferrari engine than ferrari did, must be because of the rule changes this year

 

[786]

Sauber getting BMW power is much more interesting....

exactly...i am quite interested to see how that turns out...wouldnt it be funny if sauber did alot better than williams??...i mean they have the best wind tunnel in the paddock, maybe their car with BMW power would trounce williams?...what if BMW decided to fully back sauber instead of williams...that would be hilarious...honestly, i think saubers style would mesh better with BMW than williams...and it would definately give sauber a new lease on life...

 

[LoudMusic]

Bulls will get horses for power!!

Since when has this forum cared about livestock? (:

 

[snypa]

exactly...i am quite interested to see how that turns out...wouldnt it be funny if sauber did alot better than williams??...i mean they have the best wind tunnel in the paddock, maybe their car with BMW power would trounce williams?...what if BMW decided to fully back sauber instead of williams...that would be hilarious...honestly, i think saubers style would mesh better with BMW than williams...and it would definately give sauber a new lease on life...

I think this is an interesting tactical move made by BMW. It clearly will put pressure on Williams, which is unable to produce a good chassis (except in 2003, but they took too much time before exploiting it at 100%), whereas the engine is still one of the best.
Now the question is to know if BMW will acquire Sauber, or just be a partner like in Williams partnership. It's not the first time that BMW thinks about producing its own car at 100%. In 2002, after some disapointing results, Berger, who was in charge of BMW Motorsports racing with Mario Theissen, clearly pushed in that direction. In fact, BMW has 3 major problems :

1. after having had one of the best come back in history of F1 (a victory in San Marin in 2001, just 4 years ago, and after only 20 races), they just seem to be stuck now, whereas Mac laren and renault, after some transition seasons, seem to be the main competitors against ferrari.

2. BMW is here to win, not only a few races, but also a championship and, maybe more important, they want to be in front of Mercedes. At the present, the Mac laren chassis is clearly better than the williams chassis, and as a consequence, BMW is behind.

3. I'm quite sure that the BMW staff is fed up with williams managing :
- on the technological field, they made several mistakes. After having dominated (but not won) the 2003 end of season, they should have made an evolution of the FW25, like Ferrari did on its F2003-GA. Instead of that they made a revolution, but that was not controlled at all.
- about the drivers management, williams clearly failed (and it's not the first time). They had 2 of the best drivers of the field, but, putting so much pressure on both, they just made them too nervous, resulting as severe mistakes during some races. While Schumi dominated Rubens, like Kimi with Coulthard, Ralf and Juan Pablo neutralized themselves in 2003 (2 victories each), failing both to the championship.... and going both elsewhere to see if the grass is greener.
Yes, I know, it's better for the show to have 2 equaly capable drivers, but when you start to count the points....

I really hope BMW will build a 100% "M-Power team", wait and see....

 

[ExigeEvan]

Maybe so, but at the moment RBR are using the exact same engine as the minardis, need i say more. Also the 2.4L V8's that they're using next year are basically the 3.0L v10's with 2 cylinders (0.3L each) cut off the end (basically), they did this to reduce costs, so it won't cost too much to develop a new engine if they had an old one to work with (but i know what you mean as RBR are using a cosworth engine this year).

I think Blake said in another thread,"It isn't as simple as that."

 

[786]

I think this is an interesting tactical move made by BMW. It clearly will put pressure on Williams, which is unable to produce a good chassis (except in 2003, but they took too much time before exploiting it at 100%), whereas the engine is still one of the best.
Now the question is to know if BMW will acquire Sauber, or just be a partner like in Williams partnership. It's not the first time that BMW thinks about producing its own car at 100%. In 2002, after some disapointing results, Berger, who was in charge of BMW Motorsports racing with Mario Theissen, clearly pushed in that direction. In fact, BMW has 3 major problems :

1. after having had one of the best come back in history of F1 (a victory in San Marin in 2001, just 4 years ago, and after only 20 races), they just seem to be stuck now, whereas Mac laren and renault, after some transition seasons, seem to be the main competitors against ferrari.

2. BMW is here to win, not only a few races, but also a championship and, maybe more important, they want to be in front of Mercedes. At the present, the Mac laren chassis is clearly better than the williams chassis, and as a consequence, BMW is behind.

3. I'm quite sure that the BMW staff is fed up with williams managing :
- on the technological field, they made several mistakes. After having dominated (but not won) the 2003 end of season, they should have made an evolution of the FW25, like Ferrari did on its F2003-GA. Instead of that they made a revolution, but that was not controlled at all.
- about the drivers management, williams clearly failed (and it's not the first time). They had 2 of the best drivers of the field, but, putting so much pressure on both, they just made them too nervous, resulting as severe mistakes during some races. While Schumi dominated Rubens, like Kimi with Coulthard, Ralf and Juan Pablo neutralized themselves in 2003 (2 victories each), failing both to the championship.... and going both elsewhere to see if the grass is greener.
Yes, I know, it's better for the show to have 2 equaly capable drivers, but when you start to count the points....

I really hope BMW will build a 100% "M-Power team", wait and see....

your right of course...the question is definately "will BMW acquire sauber?"...peter sauber has been saying for some time that he would sell the team if he could come to an agreement...i think it makes alot of sense to BMW to acquire sauber...they would get a team much more geared towards a company like them and get the best wind tunnel in F1 as a bonus...sauber always seem to do well enough to not really be considered a back field team (like minardi and jordan) and also sauber used to be linked to mercedes so im sure BMW would love to beat MB with a team that they left by the wayside...i definately think BMW is fed up with williams...they have simply not put together a competitive package and BMW will only give them so much time...personally i think williams have squandered a golden opportunity here and i think its time BMW moved on to a more deserving team...anyway im pretty sure the BMW brass arent going to allow Mcmerc to upstage them for very much longer...either williams will step it up or BMW will jump ship...

and im in total agreement about the M Power team...that would be impressive indeed...

 

[kensei]

exactly...i am quite interested to see how that turns out...wouldnt it be funny if sauber did alot better than williams??...i mean they have the best wind tunnel in the paddock, maybe their car with BMW power would trounce williams?...what if BMW decided to fully back sauber instead of williams...that would be hilarious...honestly, i think saubers style would mesh better with BMW than williams...and it would definately give sauber a new lease on life...

My feeling is that this is the beginning of the end for the Williams/BMW partnership. Depending on how the rules pan out and how the F1/GPWC thing turns out I could see BMW buying Sauber out and running a BMW F1 team. BMW has made no small hint that they would like to run their own F1 team but Sauber is a much nicer prospect to buy out than Williams ever was/is. Much cheaper too.

However these new V8 engines and the F1/GPWC split are a huge stumbling block for BMW....

 

[Blake]

My feeling is that this is the beginning of the end for the Williams/BMW partnership. Depending on how the rules pan out and how the F1/GPWC thing turns out I could see BMW buying Sauber out and running a BMW F1 team. BMW has made no small hint that they would like to run their own F1 team but Sauber is a much nicer prospect to buy out than Williams ever was/is. Much cheaper too.

However these new V8 engines and the F1/GPWC split are a huge stumbling block for BMW....

F1 is very fragle at the moment, I think it would be very foolish for a manufacturor to buy out a team in the current political environment of F1. I would wait until 2008 and see how things pan out, there could be major revisions to the way F1 (or GPWC) works in the next few years, it would be very dangerous to buy into a team at the moment IMHO.

Blake