Can somebody please explain this?

[SlipZtrEm]

Watching from the dirty driver's car, looking back, skews the angle, and does make it look like the red car turns into the passenger door just before impact... if you're ignoring the clear shift to push it off, by the grey car.

Watching the video at 1/4 speed, the OP's car doesn't even get to line up with the white line before the other guy smashes him off. He did turn, ever so slightly, to the left before impact, but that was simply to try and align with the straight. The grey car then turns in more than sharp enough to make it clear he had no intention of leaving space, despite the red car's nose being almost parallel with the side mirrors.

 

[Draggon]

I watched it at 1/4 speed and the grey car lines up parallel to the pit entrance boundary line. The red car starts to move right to come alongside and the grey car turns in his direction once, straightens up, then turns toward him again and straightens up, and then finally turns a third time and puts the red car into the wall.

FYI raced against the person in the grey car at Dragon's Tail, and he did the same thing to me, in about the same place.

 

[CBH]

I gotta defend myself against your statements, mate. To say that this incident was MY fault is bogus! Did I turn in slightly inwards? Yes. But I NEVER made contact with the other car by doing so. If I didn't steer inwards I would have veered off the track. The contact was caused because the other driver steered towards me and rammed me off.

I was trying to pass this guy and he didn't let me pass. Racing rules are clear about this: More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. If a driver has moved off the racing line while defending their position, they may move back but must ensure there is at least one car’s width between their own car and the edge of the track. Source

Look mate, the grey car was mid-track by the end of the corner. That was his racing line. He deviates from that and moves towards the left to defend his position. That was his one defensive move. He then steers all the way to the right of the track as I'm overtaking, and rams into me. That's against the rule and that's DIRTY driving.

The clean and courteous thing to do is let faster drivers pass. Simple as that. The grey car was driving mid-track and steers all the way to the right and runs into me, yet you're looking at the fact that I slightly turned in to keep my car on track. AGAIN. This guy was driving mid-track and steers all the way to the right to run me off! Please tell me how he's not at fault?

The grey car did move over to try to block you, but you made it worse by turning slightly in and made very slight contact and crashing, if you back off slightly it would have never had happen, but hey that is racing and it is only a game. I get players some of the time trying to block me but l just back off and find a way to pass him/her, but if I crash because of some dirty drivers there is not much you can do, you just have to watch out for them and be a smart driver.

 

[pedrocor]

Not sure if he got away without a penalty. I mean, is there even a way to tell if the other person also gets a penalty?

As matter of fact there is.
Since 1.06, in any contact you get that information on the bottom of your screen, the time penalty and/or SR decrease.

 

[Gnarlyjin]

Penalty system is not perfect and it will never be.

You need to learn how to live with dirty drivers with a given situation.
Next time just don't squeeze into dangerous zone like the video cause unskilled drivers wouldn't leave the space between them and curbs at side by side situation.

 

[Belifant]

I'm surprised there is even a discussion about who's at fault

 

[stevenhiggster]

Most gamers have no idea of the gentlemanly rules and ettiquette of racing. Some of the blocking moves I've witnessed have been shocking. But what can you expect when the vast majority of people playing have no idea that what they're doing is wrong. They just think they can block however they want.

Not sure if he got away without a penalty. I mean, is there even a way to tell if the other person also gets a penalty?

It does flash up on your hud if the other guy gets a penalty.

Edit: just noticed Pedro beat me to it

 

[FazerT]

Not sure if he got away without a penalty. I mean, is there even a way to tell if the other person also gets a penalty?

Yep, since 1.6 update, when you make contact the other persons penalty flashes up on your screen in orange for a few seconds

Edit: Just got to the end of the comments and found that others already said this

 

[FazerT]

Somehow I got the orange negative SR because of this. He got nothing! What the hell!?

If we could take the understandable emotion out of the situation for a moment.
You get -SR for hitting another driver from behind and from the games perspective you approached from the rear at a higher speed and made contact with another car on the normal line. That's just how the game works and it's not perfect in its judgement.

Also, he was closing the gap to the kerb and was always looking like he was going to strongly defend that line, so taking a line straight for a narrowing gap onto a grass verge is not the best line for you in that situation. You were heading for conflict from the moment you committed to that choice.

I'm not sure what view you drive with, but you did a slight left correction of your line before you got to the kerb effectively making the gap between you even smaller.

If he would have been perfectly steady and then steered into you once you were along side, it would be clear there was nothing you could do. But as it was, he made clear (rightly or wrongly) that he would block your attempt to pass.
Using the visual clues of another drivers style can help devise a strategy as to where you can pass cleanly. Not always possible on very short races but that's only negated by more time in the qualifying stage to be in front of slower drivers from the outset.

Seeing how he was driving and having the speed advantage you had it may have been better to line up directly behind him to gain even more from the drafting and then at the very last second take the pass on the left keeping a very slight leftward left angle to increase the chances any blocking move would have reduced effect and you would have been heading into open track rather than grass verge and a barrier.

Everything is easier in hindsight, but it's more important to learn how to deal with these situations as they are regular and very difficult for a game logic to regulate. Easier for you to learn and adapt than to expect everyone to move out of the way when you approach. That certainly doesn't happen with racing in the physical world where lives and machines are at risk, so it definitely won't happen in a virtual world

Don't get me wrong, I understand your point of view here, as I and many other experience the same tactics all the time. The point is, you were faster, which is the hard bit, now you need to find a way of using that speed to get past, let's call them defensive, drivers.

 

[Belifant]

I'm not sure what view you drive with, but you did a slight left correction of your line before you got to the kerb effectively making the gap between you even smaller.

of course he had to do a left correction! He turned right to get to the outside of the car for the overtake. Of course you would need to make a left correction as a consequence of that, otherwise you drive straight off track.

The guy saw him overtaking, and he pushed him off track with a very sudden and quick right turn. Simple as that.

 

[JulesDennis]

As @Belifant said I too wonder why is there a debate here of that happend and why.And its even more "weird" that there are actually people trying to "teach" OP what he is supposed to do in this situation.
I mean this is a no brainer:
The guy in the lead is a dirty driver,he made a super dirty move,pushed OP out of the track and got a reward for that (keeping his place/defending) from the game.
Two things:
-people can be super dirty in the game and get away with that.
-some people dont even understand basic racing rules yet they "teach" here how people should race.
This is a clear black flag for that guy that pushed OP.

 

[stevenhiggster]

As @Belifant said I too wonder why is there a debate here of that happend and why.And its even more "weird" that there are actually people trying to "teach" OP what he is supposed to do in this situation.
I mean this is a no brainer:
They guy in the lead is a dirty driver,he made a super dirty move,pushed OP out of the track and got a reward for that (keeping his place/defending) from the game.
Two things:
-people can be super dirty in the game and get away with that.
-some people dont even understand basic racing rules yet they "teach" here how people should race.
This is a clear black flag for that guy that pushed OP.

Yup 100% agree, no need for a discussion here. That wasn't just a move to the side to block, or even just dirty crowding. That was plain and simple ramming someone off the track.
Guy would likely be handed a race ban for that in real life (unless of course his name is Vettel).

 

[CConspicuous]

I find it quite amusing that people upload videos vehemently as 'evidence' defending themselves even when the videos show they behaved in a manner which warranted the penalty....

 

[FazerT]

of course he had to do a left correction! He turned right to get to the outside of the car for the overtake. Of course you would need to make a left correction as a consequence of that, otherwise you drive straight off track.

The guy saw him overtaking, and he pushed him off track with a very sudden and quick right turn. Simple as that.

My comment was to say there was still track and kerb available when he made the correction, effectively increasing the chance of impact by reducing his distance to the other car.

You can see from my full comment on this what my opinion is on the other driver. It was obvious what he was going to do, why would you put your car there in the first place.

Going into an overtake believing it will be given to you because you deserve it should only be practiced when you race with your mother

 

[Belifant]

Watching from the dirty driver's car, looking back, skews the angle, and does make it look like the red car turns into the passenger door just before impact... if you're ignoring the clear shift to push it off, by the grey car.

Watching the video at 1/4 speed, the OP's car doesn't even get to line up with the white line before the other guy smashes him off. He did turn, ever so slightly, to the left before impact, but that was simply to try and align with the straight. The grey car then turns in more than sharp enough to make it clear he had no intention of leaving space, despite the red car's nose being almost parallel with the side mirrors.

As @zzz_pt already said, the camera is fixed to the grey car, so no matter what movement the grey car is doing, it always will appear going straight (because the camera moves with the car), and everything else is going left and right around it.

 

[JulesDennis]

My comment was to say there was still track and kerb available when he made the correction, effectively increasing the chance of impact by reducing his distance to the other car.

You can see from my full comment on this what my opinion is on the other driver. It was obvious what he was going to do, why would you put your car there in the first place.

Going into an overtake believing it will be given to you because you deserve it should only be practiced when you race with your mother

Nice logic mate......That is part of the problem btw.
I expect people to try (at least) and race clean.Its obvious that the mentality of 90% of GTS players do not.Your post is a nice example of that.
Thanks for reminding me yet again that even if GTS has a good online system,the users are making it impossible to work because they dont know basic racing rules and etiquette.

 

[Belifant]

Going into an overtake believing it will be given to you because you deserve it should only be practiced when you race with your mother

usually I would agree, but this was an overtake out of a corner onto the straight. If the grey car had hold his line, this would've been a save, clean and easy overtake as it can possibly get in a race. Backing out of this overtake means backing out of every overtake. An overtake cannot get simpler than this.

There are always risks involved in an overtake, because you never exactly know what the other driver is going to do. In this case, it was absolut minimal risk.

 

[FazerT]

As @Belifant

And its even more "weird" that there are actually people trying to "teach" OP what he is supposed to do in this situation.
I mean this is a no brainer:

-some people dont even understand basic racing rules yet they "teach" here how people should race.
This is a clear black flag for that guy that pushed OP.

There is no "black flag" or FiA complains procedure here in GT Sport (not that it works in reality anyway), and this is how people race on a daily basis so you have understand how to deal with it or you just get more and more frustrated.
If you go into a race feeling that if you deserve a position it will be given to you. It will not. But there are techniques to give yourself the best chance of executing a clean pass against a dirty driver, so people are trying to help the OP in the future.

I personally find it difficult to understand why you feel it's "weird" for people to offer help and share their positive experiences of avoiding this in future.
You cannot force everyone else to respect you in a race, but you can control how you race and develop your own skills to overcome many common racing frustrations.

If you don't adapt you'll be racing angry for a long time awaiting the "bad driver" patch

 

[Moglet]

I find it quite amusing that people upload videos vehemently as 'evidence' defending themselves even when the videos show they behaved in a manner which warranted the penalty....

So do I, but this isn't one of those occasions. The grey car was 100% in the wrong for driving like a muppet. Could OP have backed off? Absolutely. But he was going for an overtake and had the grey car driver not acted like a child throwing his toys out of the pram none of this would have happened.

 

[FazerT]

. An overtake cannot get simpler than this.

..., because you never exactly know what the other driver is going to do. In this case, it was absolut minimal risk.

Did you even watch the same video as me? The guy was telegraphing his intention to block the line repeatedly before the attempt. it was blatantly obvious, so no, it was not "simple" and yes it was obvious "exactly what the other driver was going to do"

I agree it should have been easy as he had the exit speed, but it was obvious the other driver was not going to let him simply pass.

I'm just saying you can't expect someone who is showing clear signs of blocking, to suddenly let you past because you deserve it

 

[FazerT]

Nice logic mate......That is part of the problem btw.
I expect people to try (at least) and race clean.Its obvious that the mentality of 90% of GTS players do not.Your post is a nice example of that.
Thanks for reminding me yet again that even if GTS has a good online system,the users are making it impossible to work because they dont know basic racing rules and etiquette.

I feel the sarcasm in your reply but I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

You asses every driver in a race based on their behaviour and you use that knowledge when you approach them. If a driver is clean it's obvious in the way they race and you can feel confident that in close racing you both give competitive respect. Where a driver looks to be driving overly defensive, reckless or aggressive, you have to be cautious when around them. that's just common sense

What are you implying about my attitude? How am I "part of the problem" ?

 

[JulesDennis]

There is no "black flag" or FiA complains procedure here in GT Sport (not that it works in reality anyway), and this is how people race on a daily basis so you have understand how to deal with it or you just get more and more frustrated.
If you go into a race feeling that if you deserve a position it will be given to you. It will not. But there are techniques to give yourself the best chance of executing a clean pass against a dirty driver, so people are trying to help the OP in the future.I personally find it difficult to understand why you feel it's "weird" for people to offer help and share their positive experiences of avoiding this in future.

Saying to a guy who is racing clean and gets demolished by a dirty one that he should have not:
a-Make that move
b-Try to pass
c-Should be more carefull
is not "helping".Its just saying "Hey,dont race against other people because they are pontetially dirty.Stay behind them and just hot lap around the track until they make a mistake".That is not racing.
Its not about if OP desevres that or any position.Its about clean racing or dirty racing.

You cannot force everyone else to respect you in a race, but you can control how you race and develop your own skills to overcome many common racing frustrations.

If you don't adapt you'll be racing angry for a long time awaiting the "bad driver" patch

No I cannot force people to respect others.But I can,point out that most of the people in GTS are as dirty as they come and GTS is making it easy for them.
Rating system (SR) is supposed to make classes of people depending how clean or not they are.I've seen a lot of those in SR S (like the guy that pushed OP).Thats :
a.System problem
b.People's problem
and should recognize it and point it out in every single situation.I dont want to "adapt" my style to defend myself against dirty gamers.I an a clean driver and want to race against other clean drivers.The game is supposed to make that happen by groupping similar people.Its not my fault if others are dirty.I cannot "code" them to make them clean.The game should have a good enough system to punish those.
Where is the "report" option btw?

EDIT:You are part of a problem when you fail to recongize what is the main reason for the problem and try to "work around" it as there is no way to improve that part of the game.
My logic is:fix the penalty/rating system
Your logic is:Just stay away from dirty people/adapt.
I want the problem to be solved,you just accept it as a "de facto".

 

[Belifant]

Did you even watch the same video as me? The guy was telegraphing his intention to block the line repeatedly before the attempt. it was blatantly obvious, so no, it was not "simple" and yes it was obvious "exactly what the other driver was going to do"

I agree it should have been easy as he had the exit speed, but it was obvious the other driver was not going to let him simply pass.

I'm just saying you can't expect someone who is showing clear signs of blocking, to suddenly let you past because you deserve it

Well it's easy to say after the crash that he should've backed off. But I doubt any of us would've aborted this very clear overtake. Of course now watching the replay you could say the guy is telegraphing his intentions, but during the actual race, it is not that clear, unless the OP was able to observe the guys driving for a while. If you look at the video, you can even see the grey car going to the left first, giving the impression he's making room for the faster overtaking car. Just to then suddenly ram him off track.

 

[The Stalker]

I don't play GT, but this happens in PC2 and AC with the blockers.

Next time handle it like I do.

He comes over to block, fall back behind as you now know his intentions which won't change but you have to get around him.

Put on the pressure until he wrecks, if he doesn't wreck wait for the widest part of the track.

With momentum on him ease to the right, pretend you're going for the inside pass. As soon as he moves right cut left fast and overtake.
Stay wide and dive late for next corner and bye bye.
Works Everytime.

That's pretty much what I did here when confronted with a rammer.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

If people would actually pay attention to the mandatory videos GTS makes you watch before you're allowed to race online, they would understand that the OP should have been allowed to pass. It's not about respect. It's about giving the faster driver the right of way.

 

[FazerT]

.I dont want to "adapt" my style to defend myself against dirty gamers.I an a clean driver and want to race against other clean drivers.

The game should have a good enough system to punish those.

EDIT:You are part of a problem when you fail to recongize what is the main reason for the problem .
I want the problem to be solved,you just accept it as a "de facto".

Ok mate, I wasn't trying to wind you up. I respect your opinion and I think we should leave it there

Have fun

 

[JulesDennis]

That's pretty much what I did here when confronted with a rammer.

You did what OP did.The difference is that in your case that guy was a ghost when he tries to ram you.If not you were going to get pushed the same way OP was.

Ok mate, I wasn't trying to wind you up. I respect your opinion and I think we should leave it there

Have fun

Accept my apology for my super aggressive tone but I am really tired of all the dirty moves I -or others- have to go against in 90% of the races.And since I've been talking about the same problem from the days of closed beta till now and I see zero efford from PD to try and improve things,I do get upset and frustrated.

 

[The Stalker]

You did what OP did.The difference is that in your case that guy was a ghost when he tries to ram you.If not you were going to get pushed the same way OP was.

The best part is, if he didn't try to block me, he would've beat me as he was starting to pull away until he swerved left.

 

[stevenhiggster]

It's not about respect. It's about giving the faster driver the right of way.

Actually it is about respect, not giving anyone the right of way.
You don't have to give anyone anything just because they are faster than you, block as best you can, cleanly.
But you must respect them by not ramming or dangerously blocking when they make a clean and clear passing attempt.

 

[FazerT]

Accept my apology for my super aggressive tone but I am really tired of all the dirty moves I -or others- have to go against in 90% of the races.

I do get upset and frustrated.

Accepted, thanks. And believe me I feel your pain. Here's a few from my large collection of recent screen captures. In all cases I'm the one being rammed