Cappuccino Cup Racing (RM) - SEASON 1 COMPLETE!

[BrandonW77]

Well, I'd love to race some Capp's today but I can't seem to get my PS3 connected to the internet. Not sure what's going on, all my other internet devices are working fine but my PS3 won't connect wirelessly or through a hard-wire. I'll keep trying, if I get it online I'll open a room. I'm ready to race some Capp's!


B

 

[BrosifDuder]

Well, I'd love to race some Capp's today but I can't seem to get my PS3 connected to the internet. Not sure what's going on, all my other internet devices are working fine but my PS3 won't connect wirelessly or through a hard-wire. I'll keep trying, if I get it online I'll open a room. I'm ready to race some Capp's!


B

Duct tape fixes everything!

Hopefully you get it working. I am ready for for some fun!

 

[watermelon punch]

Well I feel bad for ya Stigshero... But I want to play! LOL

And again with the set-up posted with the ARB set at 1/1. How is this making sense for people? The only cars I have tuned that I would leave at 1/1 would be like a race car or Furai. Maybe a lambourghini. You know, flat cars that don't roll.

Just an FYI, in testing, both me & my bf decided that extremely lowered ride height does NOT seem to help one bit with this car. In fact, if anything it might even do harm.

I think the issue here is that we shouldn't be lulled into thinking that it is an actual race car. Do not treat it like one. LOL
I was making the mistake of trying to treat it like an FR car. Which is almost as bad a way to go about it.
In reality, it's a kei car with a bunch of upgrades & aero kits slapped onto it... it should be treated thus.

Now that I'm thinking more in those terms, I feel like I'm getting somewhere. Thanks for the help JohnnyPenso/Yunitard, you're the tops!!!

 

[BrandonW77]

I bypassed my router and now it's working. I'm opening a private lounge now if anybody want to join!


Brandon

 

[Mudd]

I wish I could stop checking my phone to see all the Capp thread updates, but I am a GT5 addict... Lol. Still doin the BBQ around here, but I'll be looking for some Capp racin a little later, for sure. Watermelon, all my testing so far found negative front hight with positive rear hight seems to be working best. I'm certainly not the fastest, but my Capp looked to be turning pretty well last Sat.

 

[vodas888]

It's impossible to find times that work for everyone since we're literally from all around the globe, but hopefully you can make some more races Vodas, I had a lot of fun racing with you this week. 👍

Thanks B, its been good rubbing panels with you too m8. I will hopefully be able to make a few friday night races, but we will just see how i go.

 

[OwensRacing]

I miss you guys. It will be a few days before I can get behind the wheel again.

Let's just say my new car is being built. Errr cockpit.

 

[watermelon punch]

Watermelon, all my testing so far found negative front hight with positive rear hight seems to be working best. I'm certainly not the fastest, but my Capp looked to be turning pretty well last Sat.

Okay... So here's the thing. What effect is that having?
Did you lower the front to induce more oversteer or to reduce oversteer?
Or do you not know, and you just find you go faster that way?

I now see why BrosifDuder has settings that don't make sense. They're so close to stock as to be useless as a tuning set-up for this car if you're looking to really clean up the car's behaviour. His set-up is useful if you just want to take a teeny bit of the edge off some of the most glaring flaws, and then work with the others.

That's fine if you can do that like BosifDuder! But I watched one of the races, scrutinizing his car and all the display... I have a feeling it takes heaps more experience and much quicker reflexes than I have.
His car was rolling all about from side to side, catching air, losing grip out at the edges, on the verge of spinning out on tight turns... and he was pulling it back in like it was a well-bred German Shepherd with advanced obedience training responding to the word "heel"... while it seemed like I had to put a choker chain on my car, & reel it back in with a high powered winch whenever I made a teeny mistake, and every time someone passed me & upset the air around it... or heaven forbid - tapped or scraped my car.
Clearly there's a method for using the car's inherent handling behaviour. But darned if I see it! And even if I knew how, it'd take a lot for me to get good at it... or recover quickly enough from a wipe out.

 

[Waznz]

Watermelon

I lowered front and raised rear (f-5 r+5) to reduce oversteer and general instability. Be happy to share my settings with you online if you'd like, while i'm not as fast as most i think my setup fairly stable.

 

[BrandonW77]

Okay... So here's the thing. What effect is that having?
Did you lower the front to induce more oversteer or to reduce oversteer?
Or do you not know, and you just find you go faster that way?

I now see why BrosifDuder has settings that don't make sense. They're so close to stock as to be useless as a tuning set-up for this car if you're looking to really clean up the car's behaviour. His set-up is useful if you just want to take a teeny bit of the edge off some of the most glaring flaws, and then work with the others.

That's fine if you can do that like BosifDuder! But I watched one of the races, scrutinizing his car and all the display... I have a feeling it takes heaps more experience and much quicker reflexes than I have.
His car was rolling all about from side to side, catching air, losing grip out at the edges, on the verge of spinning out on tight turns... and he was pulling it back in like it was a well-bred German Shepherd with advanced obedience training responding to the word "heel"... while it seemed like I had to put a choker chain on my car, & reel it back in with a high powered winch whenever I made a teeny mistake, and every time someone passed me & upset the air around it... or heaven forbid - tapped or scraped my car.
Clearly there's a method for using the car's inherent handling behaviour. But darned if I see it! And even if I knew how, it'd take a lot for me to get good at it... or recover quickly enough from a wipe out.

One of the things I like most about this car is that you actually have to "drive" it. What you see when you're watching Brosif make his car "heel" is due to proper driving technique. Tuning and setup is only half the equation, the other half is knowing how to drive it. I let my Capp wander on to the kerbs all the time, and every time it wants to step out on me, but with proper steering and throttle input (or lack of) it will keep the front end pointing forward. I don't think you'd ever be able to completely tune the tail-happy nature out of the Capp, but with practice you can match a good tune with a good driving style and make it one helluva fun car to drive!

I hope that doesn't sound like I'm criticizing anybody's driving style or skill, I'm simply trying to share information. I know a lot of people are having problems with the kerbs or the grass, but I don't think any amount of tuning will make that totally go away. A good general rule to remember when you're about to touch a kerb or the grass is to straighten up your wheel and don't make any sudden throttle or brake inputs. If your wheel is straight when you hit the kerb you have a very good chance of keeping control of the car. 👍


Everybody ready for Deep Forest Reverse tonight?? I'm looking forward to tackling a new track, should be a very different race from Tsukuba! I'm very happy with how everything went with the races last week so I don't anticipate any major changes to the format. For qualifying we will probably extend each session to 8 minutes per group, this should allow everybody to get 4-5 good hot laps. Since this track is considerably bigger than Tsukuba we should still be ok with just doing 2 groups for qualifying, lots of room for us to spread out. Also, I did a much better job of releasing people at staggered intervals on Saturday, so hopefully traffic during qualifying won't be a problem.

I haven't done a lot of testing yet for Deep Forest, and after our various races yesterday I'm sure my setup is way out of whack so I will probably have a little bit longer practice session before the race. Should have a room open by 6:30-6:45pm EDT or so if anybody needs a little extra practice.

See everyone on track tonight!


Brandon

 

[watermelon punch]

Obviously what you say is true. The car's handing is poor. That much is obvious. And yes, obviously with a lot of practice, you can learn to drive even the most poorly handling cars.

But yes, you CAN tune out the curb & grass problems. I did. My newest set-up causes no problem putting a wheel on the curb or whatnot. I can put wheels off everywhere & stay put.

In the race Saturday I saw people cutting across places, driving right over grass completely, and I was wondering how they were doing it. Well, yes, with a set-up designed for that, it will stay put on curbs & grass, etc. On saturday, it wasn't possible - for me. So while others could go off track to avoid accidents or whatever, I couldn't. Yesterday, I could pretty much drive around in the grass & be fine. Only the sand trapped me.

Brosifduder looked like he was being very careful not to put a wheel off. He was very choosy about where he was putting wheels off, from what I noticed when I watched him. He was just better at not doing that, and much better at avoiding other people, and faster about recovering when someone else bumped him. No question about that, it takes practice to be able to do that.

 

[BrosifDuder]

Y'all are making me blush!

 

[Mudd]

The raised tail end seems to help give traction while powering out of the turn. But I agree, a good setup on this car helps, but good lap times are coming from being quick on the wheel without being overly aggressive. My lap times at the Forest improved quite a bit when my car was on the edge of control, it's just difficult to keep from crossing that line into out of control.
That's where the trick is, finding that fine line between the two

 

[BrandonW77]

Y'all are making me blush!

I think that's just your fever returning. lol

A lot of the tail-happiness can be tuned out to the point it's very forgiving, but I still think if you disrespect the kerb it will always bite you in this car. I get a great thrill out of it though, when you crack a really fast lap after being on the ragged edge of control it's just so satisfying! Same with reeling the back end in after it tries to step out on you, I had some incredible tank-slapping drifts that I was able to power out of yesterday and it gave me such a sense of accomplishment!

For whatever reason, having the tail end higher than the front end does seem to help quite a bit. Not having it slammed to the ground is also a good idea, especially on a track like Deep Forest R. My first setup had a very low ride-height and I could never keep the back end under control. Big props to everyone that's helping with tuning advice though, some people wouldn't be willing to give out info that would help their competitors but I think that's a sign that we have a really great group here. 👍


Anybody going to be up for some early practice before the race tonight?


B

 

[Mudd]

I'm gonna try to meet up for practice, B. I got my setup a little messed up from trying so many different things yesterday, gotta dial it back in a bit.

And you can tune your cars to absorb the rumble strips with extreme spring/damper combo's, but you have to counter the two settings against each other to maintain balance. I.e. very high spring rates with low dampers, or low rates with high dampers. The low numbers in either will absorb the strips, but low numbers in both settings will make the car very sloppy.

 

[BrandonW77]

I'm gonna try to meet up for practice, B. I got my setup a little messed up from trying so many different things yesterday, gotta dial it back in a bit.

Same here. I had a ton of fun yesterday though!! Those drafting battles were a blast!


B

 

[SohnVonStig]

Y'all are making me blush!

You suck buddy. There yah go. Now I brought you back down to earth.

 

[BrosifDuder]

Did you lower the front to induce more oversteer or to reduce oversteer?

I lowered front and raised rear (f-5 r+5) to reduce oversteer and general instability.

To add to Waznz’s comment, many GTPlanet members agree that adjustments made to ride-height when tuning vehicles in GT5 have the opposite effect of what would be expected in real world scenarios. What this means is that when making ride-height adjustments in GT5 you should expect the following:

- Lowering the front ride-height or raising the rear ride-height will encourage the vehicle to understeer (push) in the corner. As an example, say your ride-height [f/r] is [-5/-5] and you want to tune oversteer (loose) out of your vehicle. By changing the ride-height settings to [-8/-5] or [-5/-2] you will have reduced the amount of oversteer (loose) and potentially changed the balance of the car enough that it will now understeer (push).

- Raising the front ride-height or lowering the rear ride-height will encourage the vehicle to oversteer (loose) in the corner. As an example, say your ride-height [f/r] is [-5/-5] and you want to tune understeer (push) out of your vehicle. By changing the ride-height settings to [-2/-5] or [-5/-8] you will have reduced the amount of understeer (push) and potentially changed the balance of the car enough that it will now oversteer (loose).

A one millimeter adjustment to ride-height has a noticeable effect on the vehicle’s balance, more so than adjustments made to other suspension components and thus it is the most powerful tuning device available. I know my examples are pretty generic but all I wanted to do was illustrate basic application. Hope this helps!

I know a lot of people are having problems with the kerbs or the grass, but I don't think any amount of tuning will make that totally go away. A good general rule to remember when you're about to touch a kerb or the grass is to straighten up your wheel and don't make any sudden throttle or brake inputs.👍

This. 👍

But yes, you CAN tune out the curb & grass problems. I did. My newest set-up causes no problem putting a wheel on the curb or whatnot. I can put wheels off everywhere & stay put.

The kerbs that cause problems for me are always those that are at the inside apex of a corner. Now obviously clipping an inside kerb that is mountainous in stature, such as Turn 2 at Madrid Mini, which puts the car up on two wheels is going to have a disastrous effect on your cornering performance. What plagues me is the snap oversteer that is experienced when transitioning from the track surface to the inside kerb. By anticipating this it can usually be controlled but at the cost of corner exit speed.

I don’t experience this snap oversteer in every corner and different cars yield different results. I believe tuning can improve how a car behaves over a particular corner’s kerb but the beauty of a road course is that with so many different corners, chances are, you will probably muck up the handling on a different part of the track. The solution I employ is to simply avoid the inside kerb on the corners that cause unwanted results. In addition, if the rules allow and I feel it is to my advantage I will typically use kerbs at the entry and exit of corners as additional track surface to increase my cornering speeds.

As for grass, I usually like to race with GT5 set to “Real” for grip levels at the track edge/grass. This causes the biggest problem where grass/dirt is present on the exit of corners. I do not know of a way to tune out or calm snap oversteer that is experienced due to an outside rear tire touching grass on the exit of a high speed corner. I doubt that there is a tuning adjustment that can eliminate this as it seems to me to just be a bad combination of momentum and an immediate reduction in grip level at the corner of the car that weighs the most. As for putting two outside wheels off in the grass/dirt, I totally agree with StigsHero when he says you should “straighten up your wheel and don’t make any sudden throttle or brake inputs.”


As a closing thought, Mario Andretti once said that he and Colin Chapman would start the process of tuning his Lotus F1 car for that weekend’s venue by choosing three or four corners that he felt were the most important and they would tune the car to work well through those sections of the track while simply dealing with any ill-handling experienced in the other turns.




Edit:

You suck buddy. There yah go. Now I brought you back down to earth.

I can always count on you to keep me level headed.

Way to "go eat dinner" and never show back up.

 

[SohnVonStig]

Eh. I got lazy

 

[fatrab]

Nice post Brosif. Found it v. informative and hopefully I can get something out of it.

B - I am out tonight. Should be a lock for Friday however.

 

[CobraCommandrew]

Are registrations still being accepted even though Round 1 is complete? If so...

#11 CobraCommandrew (CobraCommandrew): Blu / White
Tuesday: sometimes
Friday: sometimes
Saturday: yes

Thanks. 👍

 

[BrosifDuder]

Anybody going to be up for some early practice before the race tonight?

I will most likely be there. I want to get some long distance tire testing done and to see if I can tweak my setup to dip into the 1:22s.

 

[Mudd]

I will most likely be there. I want to get some long distance tire testing done and to see if I can tweak my setup to dip into the 1:22s.

I think we're gonna have to put a limit on Duder's testing...

 

[BrandonW77]

I think we're gonna have to put a limit on Duder's testing...

Yeah, I agree. I won't let him into the room until 5 minutes before Qualifying begins. lol

Kidding, of course. But we will be imposing a 100kg weight handicap to his car, for sure!

Kidding, again...........maybe.

 

[BrosifDuder]

But we will be imposing a 100kg weight handicap to his car, for sure!

You know, I have always thought that "rewards" weight would be cool thing to try to implement into a series and with the low weight of these cars it would probably have a noticeable effect.

 

[SohnVonStig]

Yeah, I agree. I won't let him into the room until 5 minutes before Qualifying begins. lol

Kidding, of course. But we will be imposing a 100kg weight handicap to his car, for sure!

Kidding, again...........maybe.

No need I'll be beating him tonight. He knows what it's like to see my tail lights

 

[BrandonW77]

Are registrations still being accepted even though Round 1 is complete? If so...

#11 CobraCommandrew (CobraCommandrew): Blu / White
Tuesday: sometimes
Friday: sometimes
Saturday: yes

Thanks. 👍

You're in man. We need a few more people for Saturday so your schedule works out perfectly. 👍 I'll add you to the list, and you're allowed to drop one race so if you can make the next 4 then there won't be any points penalty for missing Round 1. We've had some fantastic racing so far, so you should be in for a real treat!

If you wanna hop in on tonight's practice session before the race you're more than welcome. Several members are more than happy to share setup and tuning tips. I should have a room open by 6:30-6:45pm EDT tonight, add me on PSN: BrandonW77.

 

[BrosifDuder]

No need I'll be beating him tonight. He knows what it's like to see my tail lights

Cha cha cha!

 

[SohnVonStig]

Cha cha cha!

CHING!

 

[BrosifDuder]

The half of me that is Japanese understands why and loves it: