Car List Criticism - Unwanted Premiums

  • Thread starter CarBastard
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Look, the problem is this: the (vast?) majority of cars in GT5 are just there as filler to reach the 1000 car advertising slogan.The question you should ask yourself is if you want a game with a smaller number of unique cars or a game that hypes a "1000 cars OMGWTFBBQ!!!" figure?

The 1000 car number was reached in two ways:
1) By including so many nearly identical GT-Rs, NSXs, Miatas, etc. so that not even a ricer could be anal enough to want them all.
2) Including every stupid car from previous GT games (Daihatsu Move? Really?)

The secondary issue is that within the 1000 car number PD decided to inflate the number of Premium cars. So, we get things like the i-Miev. Both of these things are really just the result of PD trying to live up to ill-conceived marketing hype - the real question is WHOSE marketing idea was it?
 
eSZee
None of what you said, didn't read all of it, matters if they didn't have complete access to the cars. Don't know how many times people have to say it. I'm sure the majority of the cars were chosen to be premium based on available data or their ability to access the data. Then there are some that they chose in order to appease the US and Euro fans. And finally older, historic cars to keep in tune with the game's encyclopedia like qualities.
This thread is turning into the Standard VS Premium thread, and we surely don't need another one of those.
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The fact you didn't bother reading it nullifies your post instantly as you possibly may have just cherry-picked the parts which you felt you could troll. Kaz has even said that the cars chosen to be premium are those that he and PD felt had "importance" (whats so important about a hybrid whose chassis is effectively a rollerskate?) , so it has nothing to do with accessibility and regional bias, it boils down to PDs own preference and in the end points towards poor communication/interaction with the audience.

In regards to accessibility it is not as if they had to individually hunt down all 1000+ cars individually. There are loads of museums in the world that house mass collections of the sort of car which would be ideal premium cars, so long as they have permission from the manufacturer (and don't go saying it's hard to get this as we all know that only Porsche make this difficult), places like the Baumler and the Donnington Collection, they can also go to race meetings, because FACT remains, to create premium cars, PD do not NEED to scan the cars in, they just need to take all the photographs that they need, yes i know its alot of photographs, but in places like those mentioned above it should only really take one to three days if PD are serious about it (dont argue with me about this because I've covered Autosport International for the last two years and I get that done thoroughly with all angles and details of the cars covered in a few hours). They can also visit race weekends, they sponsor Le Mans and the ADAC 24hrs so they can easily work out an arrangement where they are allowed to join scrutineering and take these photographs, it is not as hard as how people are making it out to be, all it takes is good management and planning, end of.

eSZee
I'm sure the majority of the cars were chosen to be premium based on available data or their ability to access the data. Then there are some that they chose in order to appease the US and Euro fans.
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Nonsense that's like saying supercavitation can be applied on a racecar to reduce drag when it only applies to incompressible liquids and not air.


You guys need to also look at this from a business perspective too, when you look at it from that perspective you actually see why the critics have come down so hard on this game.
 
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Personally, I love the fact that the Tesla Roadster is a premium car. It's a pretty darn neat car, in my opinion. And the fact that there's a fast-ish electric car in a very popular video game is a really great step forward just emphasizes the feasibility of electricity as a source of power for a car.

Making it a premium car just demonstrates the possibility of the car becoming an icon in the future.

On a slightly unrelated note, has anyone ever seen a Tesla repair truck? I saw one in my neighborhood once, but I don't live in the sort of neighborhood where someone would need one. :/
 
ironsheep
. Both of these things are really just the result of PD trying to live up to ill-conceived marketing hype - the real question is WHOSE marketing idea was it?
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Sony Computer Entertainment's.

I only see the problem that I enjoy all cras, and the people who say the little econoboxes should go, I proudly object.

-So there not fast stock. So? I have a 300hp Suzuki Swift. They can be tuned to make cool, higher-performance variants.
-What would they use for license testing? You can't give a supercar for the beginner's B-License.
-It's a car game. It features variety. You can drive supercars, race cars, concepts, sedans wagons, hot hatchs, hybrids, F1, DTM, JGTC, and of course, Kei Cars.

The final point isn't too good. It's a Japanese game. Unfortunately, PD and Kazunori have more influence on their home market. That means the majority will be Japanese-built cars. Luckily, PD has taken good efforts to diversify the distribution, and while some cars coming from the Japanese are a little boring, the American and European are fast, cool cars. Surely, I love GT-R's and Supra's, but Corvette's and M3's are just a little better.

More Japanese Cars= more boring
Less American/European Cars= more fun.
 
To be honest I understand some of the frustration from OP.
BUT, on the other hand I understand the people that love that "their" car is premium or because they have some other aspect that makes a "slow" or otherwise unwanted car from a competition angle car wanted premium.
For ME, I would love the Volvo 240 to be premium, my parents still got one that is from '86 and I have driven it ALOT.
But it's not and I guess it's ok.

Although this is not only applied to Premium I think alot of discredit PD for what they have done with GT5.
I mean, it's seldom I see SO few comparisons to other games as here on GTPlanet.
WHY?
Because GT is still unique, it still does have things that are awesome.
According to www.mygranturismo.net there is 236 premium cars.
That too me alone is ALOT. Yes I know, alot of them YOU will never drive but others will.

What sometimes amazes me though is the fact that I see VERY few threads here on GTPlanet where GT5 is compared to other games (or I'm just looking in the wrong sections?!).
To me it just seems there actually no other game that can directly compete with GT5 and how the game is played (and I'm not talking about the actual driving).
 
MuRRe
To be honest I understand some of the frustration from OP.
BUT, on the other hand I understand the people that love that "their" car is premium or because they have some other aspect that makes a "slow" or otherwise unwanted car from a competition angle car wanted premium.
For ME, I would love the Volvo 240 to be premium, my parents still got one that is from '86 and I have driven it ALOT.
But it's not and I guess it's ok.

Although this is not only applied to Premium I think alot of discredit PD for what they have done with GT5.
I mean, it's seldom I see SO few comparisons to other games as here on GTPlanet.
WHY?
Because GT is still unique, it still does have things that are awesome.
According to www.mygranturismo.net there is 236 premium cars.
That too me alone is ALOT. Yes I know, alot of them YOU will never drive but others will.

What sometimes amazes me though is the fact that I see VERY few threads here on GTPlanet where GT5 is compared to other games (or I'm just looking in the wrong sections?!).
To me it just seems there actually no other game that can directly compete with GT5 and how the game is played (and I'm not talking about the actual driving).
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Forza gets compared a lot, sometimes too much. Shift 2 looks like it might become a serious competitor as well the way they are taalking about that game.
 
Also, as points have said above, there's 236 Premiums. That's more than the total amount of GT1 or GT3.

And GT2's graphics were so awful that...well you get the point.
 
GT_Prologue5
Also, as points have said above, there's 236 Premiums. That's more than the total amount of GT1 or GT3.

And GT2's graphics were so awful that...well you get the point.
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To be fair, there are about 12 NASCAR, all virtually identical apart from Chevy, Ford and Toyota aesthetic differences. Also, there are like 5 Super GT GT-R, 5 SC430 Super GT cars, 5 NSX Super GT cars. There are 2 Cappochinos, 2 Suzuki Swifts which are all very similar. The actual car list I bet is close to 200.
 
I suspect the choice between premium and standard had a lot to do with accessibility (perhaps financial incentives from dealerships?). They need access to the real thing to make a premium car. I suspect they started with the most accessible cars when they first started and then realized they couldn't go through the whole list and had to compromise. I suspect that if they had to do it all over again and knew ahead of time that they could only make so many premium cars their list would have been different than it is. It was just their overambition hitting the reality barrier. The premium models are so good though that I doubt GT6 would need to improve upon the current premium models so all the new premiums would be for different and probably 'better' cars.
 
The problem isn't the car list its the vast opinions of everyone, I love the carlist and the variation allows everyone to have the exact car THEY want. I find with games like Forza your forever painting, modifying and upgrading/downgrading cars to get something that is still not what I want. I agree there is a few too many MX5 variants but I would rather have more than less. And to those of you who think that cars like the Daihatsu Move, Sirion and other Kei cars shouldnt be in thier dont forget who made this game, the Japanese and Kei cars are a massive part of thier life just like pickups are a part of america. Of course I love oddity cars as the generic cars such as GTR, Ferrari and other exotica generally dont appeal to me. So I think we shouldnt downgrade the carlist at all, just keep making it bigger!! Its one of the few cases where bigger is actually better! :D


Forgot to add, look at the carlists of previous games and you will see the pattern that comes because of a new console ;)
 
The car list is extremely diverse, and I like that. Nothing quite makes a game feel more acradey than a bunch of 500hp-700hp super cars in the premium dealerships.

This car list is a driver's list, not some arcade racer list. You gotta respect the diversity, the intent to appeal to everyone and not just the people from NFS and Test Drive, and I think the integrity is the most important part. Gran Turismo's standards have always been quite fascinating, artistic, and educational which has allowed this title to stand apart from the rest.
 
I think the whole thing is because of Sony wanting to please its marketing people, rather than letting PD please its players. In GT4, Sony pushed PD to have hundreds and hundreds of cars. PD is a Japanese company, so guess what's most acessible to them? Instead of taking time to get a nice, diverse selection they grab for whatever cars they can get, which leads to hundreds and hundreds of Skylines, RX-7s, Miatas, FTOs, and Evos, not to mention kei cars, which are extremely redundant and exist only to pad the car count.

In GT5, it's rinse and repeat the whole exercise, except this time Sony is pushing for a portable GT and even more shiny new features like 3D compatibility, PSP-PS3 connectivity, celebrity-themed events, and full B-Spec integration. And since no GT game can have fewer cars than the one before it, they couldn't have cut out the duplicates even if they had been working on unique, useful cars to replace them.
 
CarreraGT
People keep referring to trolls, is that a word that was invented in this forum?

Anyway yeah PD's prioritisation with regards to premium models was strange. As you mention, we have a Premium Prius but no Bugatti Veyron. And how about the F1 GTR,

We have some beautiful premium cars but so many were ommitted, I'm beginning to think KY/PD have just lost touch completely
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I'm happy to have the Prius and Telsa as Premium (they're both automotive landmarks).

Re. the Veyron being Standard, what were they thinking?

And ditto for the Formula GT, which is practically essential for getting anywhere in the upper levels of B-spec.
 
I believe the game was definately to be released in 2009 but sony commanded 3d and head tracking etc. so a near total rebuild was required. I imagine there would be another 50+ premiums and another 100+ standards if there was no 3d and it still released in 2010. IMO it should be 1 of every model as premium and twins as standards. I guess Turn 10 also had access to a more diverse range of cars being based in the U.S. everything gets imported to there, simply not the case in Japan so there is japanese car overload.
 
xNEVER-ONEx
To be fair, there are about 12 NASCAR, all virtually identical apart from Chevy, Ford and Toyota aesthetic differences. Also, there are like 5 Super GT GT-R, 5 SC430 Super GT cars, 5 NSX Super GT cars. There are 2 Cappochinos, 2 Suzuki Swifts which are all very similar. The actual car list I bet is close to 200.
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This is what I wrote on the previous page in respond to the claim all NASCAR (or SuperGT) cars are all basically the same apart from some details.

analog
Er, actually no, although that was what I initially thought too (don't know that much about NASCAR) but I own each single NASCAR in GT5 and each interior is different and I don't mean just between Ford, Chevrolet and Toyota like you would expect.
Also each Ford, Chevrolet and Toyota have different interiors from the other examples of the same brand making them much more than a simple cut and paste job, in fact each interior has been modelled separately it turns out (like they obviously are in real life).
Which makes that the time and effort they put into making these cars simply astonishing, same probably goes for most Super GT cars.
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You may not like the fact there are so many similar looking NASCAR or SuperGT cars but they are all unique and can therefor be counted as different Premium cars, I agree on those Suzuki Swifts though, the differences between them seem too irrelevant to justify 2 models.
 
This thread has a lot of prius bashing going on... and i enjoyed its special event... lol it was perhaps the fastest ive ever taken turn one at grand valley. But why cant the lmp cars, at least the open ones, be premium? pd probably has good enough interior shots to work out whats going on... and i askes at the le mans bugatti museum, and they let me SIT INSIDE their door guard Pescarolo. and take pictures! which ive now lost... lol
 
The more cars we have, the more cars we want! Fairly simple no? This is how humans are:) And yes! I want more premium cars! But I like the ones that are already there...
 
like others have said before, the "slow" cars make the fast ones better. FOR example i was driving my volvo c30 and turned off skid recovery. the volvo was great , sooo stable. then i switched to the toyota gt one and floored it off the start and smoked my racing softs. needless to say it was the most enjoyable experiences i have ever had on gt5
 
Buick Special62
like others have said before, the "slow" cars make the fast ones better. FOR example i was driving my volvo c30 and turned off skid recovery. the volvo was great , sooo stable. then i switched to the toyota gt one and floored it off the start and smoked my racing softs. needless to say it was the most enjoyable experiences i have ever had on gt5
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Nobody wants the Volvo C30-R gone, its a cool hot hatch, which is sporty. When most people say slow, they mean the I-Miev, or the Schimmawagon.
 
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I would like to see PD pick up a copy of a certain car magazine in the UK with the tagline - for the thrill of driving, In there, they will find enough of the cars that every petrolhead would ever want to drive.

Where are the normal Caterham variants, Radicals, Ginettas, more Lotus, classic and current, more renault sport model, noble , Ultimas, ford racing pumas and without a shadow of a doubt, all of the m cars from the earliest variant of 535 to the most recent m3 competition? They've got enough variants of S2000 and skyline in the game I think!!

honestly I was expecting Gt5 to have so many cars I wouldn't have the time to see them all. I remember a time when the gran turismo series had cars you'd never heard of and extreme editions of normal cars. One word that I feel is missing from GT5 is Eclectic.

so I agree with all above who've mentioned the cars that don't really have a place in the premium section, if I'm honest I'm wondering why they are in the game even at all! What enjoyment can there be had from a prius exactly?? :nervous:

I've probably put this is in the wrong thread but I felt the urge to vent!

Kazunori Yamauchi please give me a job on your team, I want this game to so much more!!!
 
Regardless of what you guys personally think in regards to being in favour of some of the crap premiums like the Prius and Cappucino, you've got to remember that from a marketing perspective if you want to sell a game well you need to put emphasis on the high performance cars as this is what the mainstream market would want from a racing game, if you pulled out a racing game based entirely around 207s, Pruises and K class cars it would be a huge flop, compare that to the likes of Need For Speed (IN TERMS OF CAR LIST ONLY!) they put the emphasis on performance cars and thats why it sells, you dont want to have a game full agricultural green shopping trolleys and cars that you would be laughed at for driving, you'd want a game with Ferrari, Lamborghini, Pagani, Mercedes, Mclaren, Koenigsegg and so on.
 
I have yet to come across an unwanted premium. I like that I can get a wide variety of cars. It makes the game more interesting.
 
As much as I've bashed GT5, I need to say this to defend PD (yeah, I just wrote "defend" PD...).

I'll give you guys a mission, ok ? Grab your camera (cellphone, IPod, Polaroid, I don't care) and take a picture of the interior of a Miata and take another from a Toyota Minolta. You have 30 minutes...

Wait, what ? Where can you find a Minolta ? The same place as a Toyoya GT-One, a Veyron and a Jaguar XJ220... You guys don't understand that they are perfectionists (sadly) so they will sit in the cars for HOURS if not DAYS so the interior looks exactly the same, so finding a Miata will be a million time easier to find than those models that are owned by very rich people or simply rotating in a car manufacturer museum.
 
I wonder why no one has considered this but i have 2 suzuki cappuccinos in my premium dealership but there no difference whatsoever. Thats one less premium for me:indiff:
 
All the Premium Lexus SC430, Honda NSX, Chevrolet Impala, and Nissan GT-R are all basically the same cars, with identical stats, but counted as separate cars because they are painted differently. They obviously did this so they could say there are more premium cars in the game. Personally I think this is shocking behavior, and may even be illegal under false advertising laws.
 
Damn look at the Car-List in Shift2... The 120 Premium cars are much better than the 1000 cars from GT5!!

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3178_bigthumb.jpg


3185_bigthumb.jpg


3175_bigthumb.jpg


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3184_bigthumb.jpg



I don´t get it why PD made such worse premium cars (not graphics, selection)... I´m turkish and if I would make an real-time strategy game, I would not implement 70% turkish army and 30% from the rest of the world...

And then the track-list of Shift2, I think more than 90% of the GT5 players would preffer the Shift2 Track-list than the GT5...
 

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