cars that are just better

O.K. maybe I am crazy, but does it seem that pd has cars in the game that are just better? Cars that seem to have distinct advantages over other cars are nothing new to the gt series. I think the one car that comes to mind is the s2000 in gt3, it just plain outperformed other cars of the same class time and time again. In gt4 the car i see alot of people praising is the m3. Also, the gt40 seems to have something extra as well. I'm not talking numbers but pre- programmed winners.


Am i paranoid? Is pd trying to make us love certain car companies? Have i been playing too long? :odd:
 
:odd: I don't know what the... your talking about but GT4 was suppose to be a "History of Cars" well (Asian view apparently). :rolleyes:
 
You don't have to be talking about GT4 to hear praise for the M3. It's kinda like "the Skyline GT-R of Europe." Sure, they're great cars, and deserve praise, but they're worshipped like ultimate, unbeatable gods by many people. :rolleyes:
 
I'm Asian... I'll say it... there's no reason to have 40 mill. GTR's, NSX's, and RX-7's. :rolleyes:

Oh, and there's no such thing as "cars that are just better" it depends on what your talking about. As for certain cars, like the M3 and S2000 being better than anything else... personal preference (as well as hype in this case).
 
VIPFREAK
I'm Asian... I'll say it... there's no reason to have 40 mill. GTR's, NSX's, and RX-7's. :rolleyes:

Sorry I didn't know your background... and yeah, we don't need that much cars from east, but PD made the game, what did you expect? More europeans? :dopey:
 
NSX-R
Sorry I didn't know your background... and yeah, we don't need that much cars from east, but PD made the game, what did you expect? More europeans? :dopey:

Me being American I know about cars from there, even the legends... If you're a real car guy race doesn't matter and you'll know all the Classics from everywhere and respect them just as much as from your home country. Why isn't a Viper RT/10 in the game?! it's clearly something that was over in europe and japan yet it wasn't even in GT3, WTF is up with that. If he didn't know of them then he could have researched, especially since he's claiming it's a "history of cars". Sorry it's just my two cents... I'm off it now.
 
all i'm saying is that it seems pd has certain cars that are overall better, than others. That doesn't mean they didn't put equal time into other cars, just that they made certain cars easier to work with. any car can beat any lap record with the proper amount of work. I am trying to tune all of my "ringers" to handle the challenge of the m3's, s2000's, ford gt, etc. i just wanted to know if anyone else noticed.
 
Well, it seems Japanese cars typically have a biased advantage when it comes to tuning their engines in GT4...
 
examples? what models excel, let's just say stock, over the others. Try not to play favorites, but cars that you drive, and just know were built a little bit better.
 
I was watching a production car race the other day and an s2000 was in the same class as a 5.7 litre SS Commodore and a 4 litre turbo Falcon. I'm guessing that this is its actual class not up against things like an MX5 or a Celica
 
Let's not turn this into another "Japanese Cars Get an Unfair Advantage in GT4" Thread.

Let's look at the facts:

The best new low-powered FF I've found is a Clio 2.0... that's French.
The fastest FF car is a Ford Focus RS... that's European.
The fastest non-exotic sportscar is the Viper... that's American.
The fastest non-concept MR is probably the Zonda... that's Italian.
The best (apparently, from what people are saying) non-F1 racer is the Pescarolo... that's French.
The fastest cheap sportscars (under 60k) are all American.
The only advantage I see the Japanese manufacturers as having (besides numbers) is in road-based AWD and in rally-offerings.

As for the original question

Yes, there are cars that are much better than others in the game subjectively. The M3 is one of them. The M5 is one. The NSX another. It's due to the way the physics and handling models interact with the GT4 engine. Some cars which "felt" better in GT3 have not benefitted, such as the Tuscan Speed 6 and the Lotus Elise. This is merely a side-effect of the game-engine and nothing more.

Pre-programmed winners? Plausible, as Ford and BMW gave full support to PD in developing their game models. But a lot of people hate the GT40 because of its braking (I personally don't see a problem), and I can name a ton of MRs that'll outperform it. Some people don't like the M5 because of the understeer. I've never really warmed up to the Mustang, either. I don't see any pre-programmed winners here... just some good cars, and some superior cars.
 
THERES A GOD DAMNED REASON WHY THERE ARE BETTER CARS!! every company has it's pride and joy fast car, Exapmle. for Nissan well that can be alot of cars GT-R, Fairlady Z, etc..., for Ford it's the Ford GT, and Mustang, and Chevy it's the Vette. and Aston Martin it's the DB9, just throw a few out there. in every class theres a few cars that were build like they could handle the next class, M3, and S2000 are both very wel build racers and they both can handle some stuff in the next class up. and this is all so very realistic not all cars are EXACTLY THE SAME, every car EVERY CAR, has it's advatages and weeknesses, THESE CARS have LESS weekness and more stregnth and these are the cars THAT WIN RACES, theres a REASON why it says THE ULTIMATE DRIVING SIMULATOR, because it's REALISTIC.

NOTICE: things that are writen in CAPITOL LETTERS are KEY WORDS!!!!!
 
niky
Let's not turn this into another "Japanese Cars Get an Unfair Advantage in GT4" Thread.

Let's look at the facts:

The best new low-powered FF I've found is a Clio 2.0... that's French.
The fastest FF car is a Ford Focus RS... that's European.
The fastest non-exotic sportscar is the Viper... that's American.
The fastest non-concept MR is probably the Zonda... that's Italian.
The best (apparently, from what people are saying) non-F1 racer is the Pescarolo... that's French.
The fastest cheap sportscars (under 60k) are all American.
The only advantage I see the Japanese manufacturers as having (besides numbers) is in road-based AWD and in rally-offerings.

As for the original question

Yes, there are cars that are much better than others in the game subjectively. The M3 is one of them. The M5 is one. The NSX another. It's due to the way the physics and handling models interact with the GT4 engine. Some cars which "felt" better in GT3 have not benefitted, such as the Tuscan Speed 6 and the Lotus Elise. This is merely a side-effect of the game-engine and nothing more.

Pre-programmed winners? Plausible, as Ford and BMW gave full support to PD in developing their game models. But a lot of people hate the GT40 because of its braking (I personally don't see a problem), and I can name a ton of MRs that'll outperform it. Some people don't like the M5 because of the understeer. I've never really warmed up to the Mustang, either. I don't see any pre-programmed winners here... just some good cars, and some superior cars.


you dirty poop, stole my crowd, i thought i was gonna ancre these peeps a leson on NOT ALL CARS ARE THE SAME. ha you mised a part on chapter 3! now that were i come in :)
 
Oops... missed a point. What have I driven that's felt better than the competition?

FF
Clio 2.0 (beautiful handling, good speed for less than 200hp)
Alfa Romeo GT (strangely, not supposed to be good in real life)
Honda Integra Type R
Volvo S60 T5

FR
Mazda RX8 (unfairly quick)
Chevy Corvette
BMW M3 & M5

AWD
Volkswagen Golf Mark IV R32
Mine's Skyline
Subaru Impreza WRX STi Spec C
Mitsubishi Evo VIII MR

MR
NSX Concept
Pagani Zonda
 
Master_Yoda
you dirty poop, stole my crowd, i thought i was gonna ancre these peeps a leson on NOT ALL CARS ARE THE SAME. ha you mised a part on chapter 3! now that were i come in :)

:lol:
 
I reckon the M3 is praised alot, not just because it's a great car, don't get me wrong I love it, but because it was expected in the first three games, which in my guess, generated alot of hype for it. Then GT4 came out and BANG!
 
I guess that's part of it. We've just been waiting much too long for the M3... and thank goodness it matches up to our expectations.
 
i never use it unless it's requierd, or sometime i take pics of it.... i'm just a freak with Japanese cars, i just stick to my tuned Supra for now 👍 :sly:
 
Don't get me wrong... I think the GTi is a swell car, it "feels" great, but it's just a bit soft and slow compared to other FFs. Like the Cooper.
 
Well,

First off, interesting question. :cheers:

Now to get on with the subject.

I believe there are cars that have advantages in this game that represent a bias.

However, this has been dramatically reduced compared to GT3 in my opinion.

In GT3, anything over 1500 kg was basically Poo. 👎
Rarely did I find a ride worth its price once the weight got above a certain point. GT4 isn't as bad about this although it still shows some problems in this area.

The odd thing is that this "area" is the first place I see a bias.

The Skyline GT-R (R34).

The R34 is just plain crazy in GT4. Tune it to any level and you still have an overall winner compared to almost any other road car in the game.
At 1540-1560kg, the stock R34 has more throttle oversteer than many of the RWD competitors.
At 1278-1311kg, a stage 3 skyline has incredible handling and vast potential as a racer on any kind of tires.
Even with 800hp the R34 can provide characteristics that don't seem fitting, such as the handling on a fully tuned model.

In my opinion the Skyline R34 is the best example of a pre-determined winner in GT4.
For some reason it creates an exception for every horrible rule I can come up with and all the while it manages to steal my heart. :lol:

Not many other cars come to mind in this category for me.

This brings me to my final point of this post...

Niky,
Don't forget that all of this threads content is going to be opinion.
I find most of the picks you made to be out of place.
Only the RX8 seemed like a fitting pick.

The honda integra didn't seem "fitting" since I can usually match other people in my celica.
The Z06 didn't seem proper because of the fact that a real C5 Z06 is a monster on both paper and the track; the same goes for the M3 and M5.

Even the Zonda pick seemed wrong since the Zonda's brakes in GT4 (as well as gt3) are horrible!

But don't sweat (too much).

I think you were dead on with the RX8 as well as the NSX concept.
Both the NSX and the RX8 seem to be much more potent racers than I would think they should be (especially the RX8).
The NSX, not so much... But still to an extent.
After seeing how well the NSX handled the ring in the "NRS" last week I have been changed. :lol:

(338hp/ 1155kg NSX-R '02 on S1 tires 7'16.003 @ The Ring)
(I suppose that's a "stage 1" NSX since it had a stage 1 weight reduction)
 
Kent
I think you were dead on with the RX8 as well as the NSX concept.
Both the NSX and the RX8 seem to be much more potent racers than I would think they should be (especially the RX8).
The NSX, not so much... But still to an extent.
After seeing how well the NSX handled the ring in the "NRS" last week I have been changed.
The RX8 is faster than you may think. Check out its time when it was tested in Top Gear.

http://www.topgear.com/content/tgonbbc2/laptimes/thestig/
 
Kent
The Z06 didn't seem proper because of the fact that a real C5 Z06 is a monster on both paper and the track; the same goes for the M3 and M5.

Would I be out of line to disagree a little about that? Becuase well, okay I'll just say it. I haven't had that much time racing against other opponents using the Z06. However, in the few times I have gone against other opponents, maybe it's also the fact I've driven that car the most, but I've found it to be very usefull, to me anywho.

I don't know if time trails count as comparrison for telling if a car is useful or not, espically since driver wise, I'm the most familar with the Z06 C5 out of every other car (that in a sense creates a bias alone), but I've found in a lot of times when I run hot laps and comapire them, the Z06 is somewhere close to the top if not over it. Not to mention I've found it very controllable at the least with a DFP on N2's on nearly every single track, and on N3's it's a sheer dream ride (same for the 350Z when I gave that a go... I just thought to myself... where have you bene all my life :)... same for a few Australian cars as well :D... to me anyway.) around any track.

I can't bring up the exact times, but for example, Suzuka Full, where I pratice a lot on N2 spec tires, the M3 GTR, the TVR 350C and the Z06 that I tested back to back all got within 2 minutes, 26 seconds (I'll have to double check for the 350C... and by double check that means I'll have to wait untill next week becuase that's when I can come home for Thanksgiving), the NSX-R was within a second slower (2.27 range). The M5 I also tested on N2's was some 3 seconds faster, and the Ruf RGT I got on the first hot lap managed a second faster than that.

To put it simply for that, I've found the Z06, the M3 (the standard, CSL and GTR), and M5s to be monsters if put in the right hands, and one knows how to use them. But again, I haven't raced them all halfway to death in a number of battles, I can't help but feel like when I do give a go, I'll end up eating my own words (ignroing the fact it's been a while since I've grapsed a DFP controller, or even DS2...and I was only a second off my fastest time around Suzuka on a Corvette on N2 and same for the M5 during my breif time a while ago...although on LFS I'm only... only 3 seconds behind world record pace... in the past it was at least 10...).

Although a sense of bias is always apparent, I've always looked at it more so on the basis of quanity than quality. Plus... I can't help but think...

Lets just say PD was based in Ameirca, the GTR 34 is still somehow a very devestating car, what then? Oh, everyone there is an import fan?... that's not to say you're off becuase the GTR 34 is a devestating car in the right hands, Gabkicks had said something similar a few months back.

Plus well, in a small contest between me and Gabkicks, we both tuned a few cars under some rules, he had a GTR34, I had a Z06, we both had to go under similar power limits (410-420+bhp), and what have you.

From what I've found in a lot of experimenting, and same for him, is that even with a differnece in tuning and modding, both cars seam to be in a similar leauge if not the outright same.

But then again you would have reason to doubt wondering why I would compare two differnet cars on two differnet driver evaulations, even tuned, espically since on average I'm .1 to 8 seconds (be it GT4, LFS etc), either ahead or behind Gabkicks (a lot of the time behind) with few exceptions, and plus our styles are different anyway.

Well that's prob becuase at least I can say on my own account, I've tried both the GTR34 and Z06on sometimes the same day for direct comparrsion, and also the fact we sometimes try the same cars to see how it's like for more than one view.

Even stock, although I haven't tested all the GTR 34's on ever track (you know what? either this Thanksgiving or God willing Chirstmas break, I should do a thing to compare all the RX-7s, all the Skylines, all the NSX's to finally settle some crap... although some people still go on about how PD ruined the Ford GT despite users such as Scaff proving otherwise... plus I find the car controllable as well...) , at best, 3 versions on Laguna seca on N2's, stock, all of them in the 1 minute 46 second or slower range. However when I had a go with the NSX-R and the GTR, they were in the 1 minute 44 second range, the NSX just barely faster by a thousandth of a second (becuase I took more laps with the NSX-R than the Z06, I got that fast lap time with the Z06 the first time since again, I'm familar with that car the most.

To try and make sense of my non-sense, I feel although there might be a bias, regardless, I try to do my best driving the car, whatever that may be on said tires (although I'm NEVER going to use a Lancia Delta S4 on N2s....N3s or sports tires... dare I say racing tires... no way on the earth of God N2s... not after trying when I barely got into GT4 on the ring all those months ago...).

It's intresting none the less though for people's analysis wondering if there is a bias on however... but in the way I see it... I ask myself... 'is this car really that good/bad?... or am I really good?/or do I really suck?'. And if nothing else as Takumi put it...

'Winner or loser, you woun't know untill you race!'.

My two cents and I'm sure I'm off by something and forgottne something., and I can't help but feel like somehow I've offended someone... no, just saying what I think... sorry if in some way I somehow did. Maybe I should just stop and wait for a reply or something...

till later.
 
Kent
Even the Zonda pick seemed wrong since the Zonda's brakes in GT4 (as well as gt3) are horrible!

Not tried a Zonda in GT4 yet (don't ask why because I'm not quite sure why), but I do have full braking figures (real world) for a Zonda C12S.

The figures are from the annual Autocar 0-100-0 tests, so I will put the C12S through the same runs as I did with the Ford GT, see what we get.

Regards

Scaff
 
R Riders,
I don't see how you disagreed with me regarding the Z06 or the M cars. :confused:

I said they were out of place on this list because they were supposed to be good cars in real life, hence, being good cars in GT would only be fitting.

Also, regarding the Z06 in comparison to the competition...
Refference the .de databases and you will see that the Z06 is quite a way behind the M3 GTR and only a bit ahead of the regular M3.

So really, is it that fast compared to the competition?

My own testing on the ring with S3 tires has shown the regular M3 at 7'13.0 and the Z06 at 7'09.
That sounds pretty good to me but not all that great considering the M3 GTR is capable of dropping into the 6'50s without too much trouble.

In any case, my point is that I don't see how the Z06 is one of the "pre-programed" winners in GT4. :P
 
The funny part is, if the C6 Z06 was in GT4, it would own everything else in it's class. Including the viper. And this discussion would be a little less potent. :sly:
 
ctown_racer
Also, the gt40 seems to have something extra as well. I'm not talking numbers but pre- programmed winner


i was thinking just the opposite for the great le mans winner of past seems to handle like crap in my opinion
 
Swift
The funny part is, if the C6 Z06 was in GT4, it would own everything else in it's class. Including the viper. And this discussion would be a little less potent. :sly:

Indeed. 👍

Man, you are just on-point today Swift.
What did you eat for breakfast, I've gotta get me some of that. :lol:
 

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