Creation vs. Evolution

[Canadian Speed]

That was pretty good.

Thanks again

 

[Danoff]

Adam got pride after eating the apple... Along with shame, guilt and so on... He lost his innocence...

Ok.

So let me ask you two this... why did Adam eat the apple?

 

[Canadian Speed]

Because he was tempted by Eve, who in turn was tempted by the Devil...

 

[Danoff]

Because he was tempted by Eve, who in turn was tempted by the Devil...

Why was he tempted by Eve? I've heard the above three times at least. I'm looking for something a little more fundamental.

 

[Famine]

If he couldn't, he wouldn't be all powerful then would he?

God goes far beyond what we as humans can comprehend. He's not in a mortal shell with physical or mental limitations. So, he can create something so heavy that he can't lift it. Then he can lift it. Or I could say, there is nothing that God can't do.

And that's the nub of the paradox.

If God can create a rock he cannot lift then he isn't omnipotent as there's something he can't do.
If God cannot create a rock he cannot lift then he isn't omnipotent as there's something he can't do.

If God CAN create a rock he can't lift and then can lift it, he has failed to create a rock he cannot lift by the very fact that he can lift it - his creation is NOT a rock he cannot lift.


I read this earlier today. It made me laugh - at first. Then I came into this thread.

(probably a language warning - I can't remember)

 

[Small_Fryz]

Agree ^^^

Just read that article and wow. 👍

 

[Carl.]

I read this earlier today. It made me laugh - at first. Then I came into this thread.

👍

I think we should print that and put it in every night table drawers in every hotel room, too.

 

[Danoff]

Yup, it's a good rant.

Edit: Although it is a bit unfair to Christians and Jews, who haven't recently been killing people.

 

[Zrow]

Here's my question: Why did God make eating the apple punishable by death?

 

[Danoff]

Here's my question: Why did God make eating the apple punishable by death?

..because God really really really likes apples. It's not like apples just grow on trees. Do you think he's made of apples? Do you think he can just magically whisk up another one to replace the one you stuffed in your mouth? Of course not, it's not like he's God or something. Death to you, Apple eater!!

 

[Zrow]

It seems ridiculous to punish your human creation by death because he broke a rule.

Yes, yes, "God told him he'd die if he ate it!" ...So what? If you tell your kid you'll spank him if he eats a cookie before dinner, are you absolutely positive that he's not going to eat it? No way! Chances are the first time, there's a good chance they will eat it. They're little, they probably don't know any better.

I'm not saying Adam and Eve were little, but growing up in the Garden of Eden I would presume that they were pretty oblivious to things like temptation and death, were they not? Where's the, ahem, mercy?

 

[Danoff]

Where's the mercy?

He didn't kill them right away. He gave them a few years to live in newfound pain and suffering first.

 

[Canadian Speed]

Yup, it's a good rant.

Edit: Although it is a bit unfair to Christians and Jews, who haven't recently been killing people.

Yeah... unless you count the inquesitions, the crusades, the discovery of the "new world", the assimilation of the Native Americans, the killing of the Aztecs and Mians... Other then that... Yeah, not too much killing... At least not from the Jews...

 

[Canadian Speed]

It seems ridiculous to punish your human creation by death because he broke a rule.

Yes, yes, "God told him he'd die if he ate it!" ...So what? If you tell your kid you'll spank him if he eats a cookie before dinner, are you absolutely positive that he's not going to eat it? No way! Chances are the first time, there's a good chance they will eat it. They're little, they probably don't know any better.

I'm not saying Adam and Eve were little, but growing up in the Garden of Eden I would presume that they were pretty oblivious to things like temptation and death, were they not? Where's the, ahem, mercy?

It's like your parents warning you about smoking... In the end if you really want to light up... go ahead... You WILL die sooner or later. It's your choice... And it was the one thing they couldn't do... Were forbiden to do... And were told would lead to their demise... You're placing the blame in the wrong spot... Blame Satan...

 

[a6m5]

I read this earlier today. It made me laugh - at first. Then I came into this thread.

(probably a language warning - I can't remember)

Wow. Listen to this guy go!

Have I offended you? That's too bad. Stop killing each other in the name of false and ridiculous Gods and I will stop ridiculing you. Trust me, your offense is much worse than mine.

He doesn't believe in any god, that's great. I could care less, if someone like this wants to ridicule me. Is it just me, or most of these religious militants are just using religions as an excuse to fight? To go off on rest of the religious population, because of what something like 1% of them does is just silly.

 

[Canadian Speed]

And that's the nub of the paradox.

If God can create a rock he cannot lift then he isn't omnipotent as there's something he can't do.
If God cannot create a rock he cannot lift then he isn't omnipotent as there's something he can't do.

If God CAN create a rock he can't lift and then can lift it, he has failed to create a rock he cannot lift by the very fact that he can lift it - his creation is NOT a rock he cannot lift.


I read this earlier today. It made me laugh - at first. Then I came into this thread.

(probably a language warning - I can't remember)

Very true... I've never said one God good, another God bad... It could all be hogwash as far as I'm concerned. But that's not really what this is all about... It's a good article, though it would be more suited if the subject was "Gods, Good or Bad". Religion is basicaly a very bad thing, as is anything if taken to the extreams that some people take them... However, it can also be a great and life changing thing for people who have the ability to accept all of it with a grain of salt... You'd be surprised that I'm actuely not very religious, I was just taught a lot (LOT) about it... And have taken it apon myself to at least learn a bit about every religion out there.

 

[Zrow]

I'm not necessarily "blaming" anyone for it - I think that Adam eating the apple given the circumstances was a totally human thing to do. Humans make mistakes - they sometimes disobey. God knew this; he ENGINEERED them! Is death not extremely unreasonable for the one bad thing Adam and Eve did?

 

[Small_Fryz]

It's like your parents warning you about smoking... In the end if you really want to light up... go ahead... You WILL die sooner or later. It's your choice... And it was the one thing they couldn't do... Were forbiden to do... And were told would lead to their demise... You're placing the blame in the wrong spot... Blame Satan...

Im against smoking however!

if you dont smoke, does that mean you wont die?
You WILL die anyway, smoking just helps you get their faster.

 

[Canadian Speed]

Im against smoking however!

if you dont smoke, does that mean you wont die?
You WILL die anyway, smoking just helps you get their faster.

The point is, parents tell their kids all the time that things are bad for them... They don't listen and reap the fruits of their actions... Apples were the crack cocaine of the fruit world back in the day... Adam, was a junky... Though he was a perfect one...

 

[Canadian Speed]

I'm not necessarily "blaming" anyone for it - I think that Adam eating the apple given the circumstances was a totally human thing to do. Humans make mistakes - they sometimes disobey. God knew this; he ENGINEERED them! Is death not extremely unreasonable for the one bad thing Adam and Eve did?

He probably did know to some extent, but that's exactly what he wanted... As for suffering, I'm sure their life wasn't a life in hell... All the did was bang, eat fruit, and name animals... Sure there was no electricity and internet, but come on, who really needs those things...

 

[a6m5]

I'm not necessarily "blaming" anyone for it - I think that Adam eating the apple given the circumstances was a totally human thing to do. Humans make mistakes - they sometimes disobey. God knew this; he ENGINEERED them! Is death not extremely unreasonable for the one bad thing Adam and Eve did?

It wasn't like a death sentence though. How old was Adam, when he died? He had his eternal life taken away, but I believe he still lived to be hundreds of years old. Heck, I'd take that!

 

[Canadian Speed]

It wasn't like a death sentence though. How old was Adam, when he died? He had his eternal life taken away, but I believe he still lived to be hundreds of years old. Heck, I'd take that!

Yeah, it would have been pretty sweet... but what these guys are gonna say is that comapared to everlasting life in the garden would have been even sweeter...

 

[a6m5]

Yeah, it would have been pretty sweet... but what these guys are gonna say is that comapared to everlasting life in the garden would have been even sweeter...

I know, I know. 👍 In Zrow's view though, Adam was sentenced to death, and I don't see it that way. Having eternal life taken away and living to be hundreds of years old doesn't sound as bad as a death penalty.

 

[Small_Fryz]

It wasn't like a death sentence though. How old was Adam, when he died? He had his eternal life taken away, but I believe he still lived to be hundreds of years old. Heck, I'd take that!

900 years is ****house compared to eternity.

Even the oldest tree has outlived him, 6x over.

 

[a6m5]

900 years is ****house compared to eternity.

Even the oldest tree has outlived him, 6x over.

Well, yeah! I guess it would've sucked, if he was a tree. But is it a death sentence to live to be 900? My idea of death sentence is 1)Adam gets caught 2)Adam gets the chair. Eternal life is supposed to be for the followers of God, right? He goes against God, so he can no longer live forever. I'm looking at this as God taking away privilege.

 

[Small_Fryz]

The fact still remains that he knew Adam would sin BEFORE he even created Adam. Which means he created Adam to sin! Even knowing this he chose to make Adam anyway, then punish him for something he knew Adam would do.

 

[a6m5]

The fact still remains that he knew Adam would sin BEFORE he even created Adam. Which means he created Adam to sin! Even knowing this he chose to make Adam anyway, then punish him for something he knew Adam would do.

I'm not so sure about that. I'd say that chance Adam would screw up was good, but he did have a freedom to choose. I still remember my reaction to this story, first time I heard it. I couldn't believe how stupid Adam was to eat that fruit. God told him that you could eat anything in the garden, EXCEPT FOR ONE FRUIT. Of course, he eats it. Didn't God also warn him that he will die, if he had eaten it? I thought he was warned, but it's been a while since the last time I read the bible.

 

[Kylehnat]

If God was really all-knowing, He would have known that children will always do the opposite of what their parents say. If God loved that fruit so much, He should have said "Adam, you may only eat from THIS tree. All other trees are off limits to you, young man!"

 

[a6m5]

Clearly, kyle's gonna be one of those fathers who plays mind games with his kids. j/k

 

[Famine]

It wasn't like a death sentence though. How old was Adam, when he died? He had his eternal life taken away, but I believe he still lived to be hundreds of years old. Heck, I'd take that!

Assuming "years" to be literal years and not metaphorical, like the "days" of Creation...