Damage in GT7 Discussion

[Pseudopod]

Dunno if it's been mentioned, or if it even is a thing in GT6 already, but damage to aero parts and the deformation of the body itself should change the car's aerodynamic properties.

I also think the game should perhaps have several difficulty modes in the gt-life part of the game, where the hardest mode requires you to even pay for new tires, car repairs, and fuel consumption. If you don't repair your car, it will be as broken in your next race as it was when you finished your last. This however, also requires a much better AI. One that actually doesn't want to wreck their cars any more than the player wants to, but still manages to drive aggressively and fast enough to win over the player.

In online mode, everyone should of course be free to turn on and off any feature for any race they are hosting.

 

[oli440]

Dunno if it's been mentioned, or if it even is a thing in GT6 already, but damage to aero parts and the deformation of the body itself should change the car's aerodynamic properties.

I don't know if this has been executed fully already. However, I noticed something interesting in GT5. The officially licenced WRC rally cars have their doors open if the car is damaged enough. When a door opens, the top speed of the car is limited to around 80mph. It doesn't feel particularly realistic, but its a function that works without mechanical damage switched on.

 

[mister dog]

I wonder if once again there is no decent damage model for GT7, would GT be the only racing game left that still doesn't have one?

And this for a series that's 15 years in the making...

 

[MarchingSaint]

I wonder if once again there is no decent damage model for GT7, would GT be the only racing game left that still doesn't have one?

And this for a series that's 15 years in the making...

You're right, but sometimes i feel like other racing games still don't have much interation you-car.
Sometimes i think to what we've got instead of what is still missing.

 

[mister dog]

You're right, but sometimes i feel like other racing games still don't have much interation you-car.
Sometimes i think to what we've got instead of what is still missing.

What we've got are good physics and hotlapping fun (if you can ignore the awful engine sounds). Apart from that there's not too much left that's exciting in GT games that warrants looking over its trademark flaws.

 

[MasamuneDate]

You're right, but sometimes i feel like other racing games still don't have much interation you-car.
Sometimes i think to what we've got instead of what is still missing.

What kind of interaction 'you-car' does GT have? It features a lot of generic cars and there's not a mode in game which allows you to know them better, not even the most famous such as Ferraris. Forza with Forzavista, for example, allows you more of this interaction... and I won't even mention customizing, and that's something GT's been lacking for all of these 15 years in the market.

 

[MarchingSaint]

What kind of interaction 'you-car' does GT have? It features a lot of generic cars and there's not a mode in game which allows you to know them better, not even the most famous such as Ferraris. Forza with Forzavista, for example, allows you more of this interaction... and I won't even mention customizing, and that's something GT's been lacking for all of these 15 years in the market.

There's a detailed biography, can change oil, wash it, apply bodykits an stuff but maybe i was just over idealizing GT.

 

[FoxHound]

Well GT7 for me be the deciding factor in continueing with GT or giving the series up for good. I played GT1 to 5 and skipped 6 (due to how bad the game is, missing features, etc. etc.). I also got older now, don't have much time to play games anymore and basically, if i buy a game or console, it better be good, otherwise i don't think it is worth it to invest my time in it (money isn't such a problem). I only have this much amount of time to spend on videogames, so the game better has to be good!

If GT7 continues with the flaws the series has had, then it's game over for me and i'll invest in an other racing game (probably iracing, don't know how pCARS is going to be). The flaws of GT, in my eyes, are lame damage to the point where u think 'is PD trolling me or what?', missing features, standards (didn't have an issue with this in GT5, but i now just think it's lame. Adding the standards was basically all done for marketing purposes, so they could advertise with their game having 'over 1000' cars...just lame). The fact that they continued with it in GT6 is a disgrace to all GT-fans.

I don't care about PD anymore. I used to be a big PD fan, following all PD- and GT-related news, etc. etc.. Now, i see it just as another company looking for my money, a company that doesn't improve their product (GT) to keep up with the competition and because of that, they have lost over 90% of my interest in their ****ty product.

Again, money isn't an issue, but it's my time that is very constricted. I am not going to invest my time in a product that is subpar.

 

[Zuku]

Well GT7 for me be the deciding factor in continueing with GT or giving the series up for good. I played GT1 to 5 and skipped 6 (due to how bad the game is, missing features, etc. etc.). I also got older now, don't have much time to play games anymore and basically, if i buy a game or console, it better be good, otherwise i don't think it is worth it to invest my time in it (money isn't such a problem). I only have this much amount of time to spend on videogames, so the game better has to be good!

If GT7 continues with the flaws the series has had, then it's game over for me and i'll invest in an other racing game (probably iracing, don't know how pCARS is going to be). The flaws of GT, in my eyes, are lame damage to the point where u think 'is PD trolling me or what?', missing features, standards (didn't have an issue with this in GT5, but i now just think it's lame. Adding the standards was basically all done for marketing purposes, so they could advertise with their game having 'over 1000' cars...just lame). The fact that they continued with it in GT6 is a disgrace to all GT-fans.

I don't care about PD anymore. I used to be a big PD fan, following all PD- and GT-related news, etc. etc.. Now, i see it just as another company looking for my money, a company that doesn't improve their product (GT) to keep up with the competition and because of that, they have lost over 90% of my interest in their ****ty product.

Again, money isn't an issue, but it's my time that is very constricted. I am not going to invest my time in a product that is subpar.

For what it is playing DiRT 3 I can't go back to GT every time I play DiRT or some other racing game it just gets worse it's like going from SD to HD to 4K YOU NEVER GO BACK!

Seriously man if I were you just go play the other games don't wait around you'll be better off for it in the long run. I did it, and even GT comes out bad just be like meh! go back to playing something else if it's good then I'll drop what I'm doing and start playing.

 

[JKgo]

Hmm, here's my two cents... I want damage modelling to be....entirely optional. You can switch it on and off if that's what you want. Personally, I would switch it off - Can't even remember how many times I've been swiped, pitted and rear-ended by idiotic AI. Nothing more infuriating then spinning out hopelessly while the offending AI car drives away as if nothing has happened.
I like looking at my cars but I cringe whenever there's "damage" applied to them. I know there's many folks out there wanting more realistic damage modelling; Me, I just want the option to turn it off if I can. Mechanical damage, however, I wholly support.

 

[CarGamingBlog]

It's almost been a taboo in GT games has damage. It's always going to be a tricky thing to pull off within the limits of what the manufacturers will allow.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's almost been a taboo in GT games has damage. It's always going to be a tricky thing to pull off within the limits of what the manufacturers will allow.

5:40 Stefano from Assetto Corsa says he has no limitations from any manufacturer as to what can be damaged on the car except blood and guts are not allowed. He says it's an "urban myth" that damage is not allowed in some video games. IMO it's PD's choice not to implement soft body physics:

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

IMO it's PD's choice not to implement soft body physics:

I always figured that it was up to PD as well on how cars get damaged in their game.

The only guess I can think of on why there hasn't been any visual damage in a GT title until GT5 was simply because PD simply just doesn't like the idea. It's partially why I think PD seems to be holding themselves back in general.
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I have to say though that I was surprised about how PD decided to change the damage in GT6, I was kinda hoping they would continue to improve the damage model system they had in GT5 such as more cars being able to lose body panes like how the Rally Cars can.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I always figured that it was up to PD as well on how cars get damaged in their game.

The only guess I can think of on why there hasn't been any visual damage in a GT title until GT5 was simply because PD simply just doesn't like the idea. It's partially why I think PD seems to be holding themselves back in general.
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I have to say though that I was surprised about how PD decided to change the damage in GT6, I was kinda hoping they would continue to improve the damage model system they had in GT5 such as more cars being able to lose body panes like how the Rally Cars can.

As I understand it, to have true to life looking damage with parts flying off the car, you need to model the car in parts, panel by panel essentially and standards are not modeled that way, they are a single shell so they can get scuffs and scrapes and you can dent the body, but you can't have a rear quarter fly off or the bonnet catch some air. You also have to model something under the body as well, an engine bay for one thing, the car frame, suspension, the trunk etc. and those things are also not modeled in standard cars, nor in most premiums I suspect.

This is one of the reasons I would like to see the standards go, because so long as the unibody standards remain, you likely won't have a decent damage model in the game because there would be dramatic inconsistencies between standards and premiums and I can't see PD allowing that. If they marginalize the standards in GT7 and perhaps only offer them as DLC and not integrate them into the career modes it might happen but it remains to be seen.

 

[sk8er913]

The best mechanical damage model I know of is Dirt(2007). But the driving model was as bad as Need for Speed. Combine GT6 physics with this, and you've really got something.

 

[Pseudopod]

As I understand it, to have true to life looking damage with parts flying off the car, you need to model the car in parts, panel by panel essentially and standards are not modeled that way, they are a single shell so they can get scuffs and scrapes and you can dent the body, but you can't have a rear quarter fly off or the bonnet catch some air. You also have to model something under the body as well, an engine bay for one thing, the car frame, suspension, the trunk etc. and those things are also not modeled in standard cars, nor in most premiums I suspect.

This is one of the reasons I would like to see the standards go, because so long as the unibody standards remain, you likely won't have a decent damage model in the game because there would be dramatic inconsistencies between standards and premiums and I can't see PD allowing that. If they marginalize the standards in GT7 and perhaps only offer them as DLC and not integrate them into the career modes it might happen but it remains to be seen.

That's a good point, and another good reason to drop standards. It wouldn't surprise me if premiums had suspensions and engine bays modeled.

 

[eran0004]

That's a good point, and another good reason to drop standards. It wouldn't surprise me if premiums had suspensions and engine bays modeled.

The premiums aren't modeled that way either. In photo mode you can glitch through the mesh and there's not much beneath it at all. The GT40 engine is modeled on top only (the part that's visible through the rear window), beneath it it's all empty space.

It's possible that for the game they just deleted the stuff that's not visible, and that the raw model has all the details, but I wouldn't bet on it.

What we've got are good physics and hotlapping fun (if you can ignore the awful engine sounds). Apart from that there's not too much left that's exciting in GT games that warrants looking over its trademark flaws.

Or you can get a GT40 and have awesome engine sounds

 

[sk8er913]

We need terminal damage, as an option of course.

 

[oli440]

We need terminal damage, as an option of course.

Switch it on for the hardcore online endurance races, switch it off for some old school GT bumper car stupidity.... xD

 

[JKgo]

Please keep the realistic damage to online MPs, as an option. Can't have a full-on, real damage system that affects your car's performance in offline races as it will get so darn annoying with idiotic AI trying to take you out.
Lost count the times when I was rammed into, swiped and pitted off the track by the AI - if you add real damage that penalizes ME not the offender, then a hell no.

 

[Earth]

Please keep the realistic damage to online MPs, as an option. Can't have a full-on, real damage system that affects your car's performance in offline races as it will get so darn annoying with idiotic AI trying to take you out.
Lost count the times when I was rammed into, swiped and pitted off the track by the AI - if you add real damage that penalizes ME not the offender, then a hell no.

Thats how real racing is, sometimes you get wrecked because someone else made a mistake.

 

[sk8er913]

Switch it on for the hardcore online endurance races, switch it off for some old school GT bumper car stupidity.... xD

Yes and no magic 50mph fuel assist lol. It would be awesome if a tow truck came and pulled you to the pit lane lol.

 

[JKgo]

Thats how real racing is, sometimes you get wrecked because someone else made a mistake.

Except "real racing" isn't run by bunch of moronic AIs that's out to kill ya.

 

[Earth]

Yes and no magic 50mph fuel assist lol. It would be awesome if a tow truck came and pulled you to the pit lane lol.

I like the way NASCAR 2003 handled it. If you landed upside down, ran out of gas, or for any reason couldnt move anymore, your car would teleport to pitlane. Then a timer would appear to simulate the amount of time a tow truck would take to bring you back. If you broke down 200 yards from pitlane the timer would last around 30 seconds. If you broke down 2 miles from pitlane, the timer would last 4 or 5 minutes. Once the timer expired the crew could begin working on your car.

Except "real racing" isn't run by bunch of moronic AIs that's out to kill ya.

They have to be careful how they model the AI. If they make them perfect where they never touch you, then odds are they'll be too timid to attempt a worthwhile pass. Also if they never touch you then that would mean they would never make contact with eachother resulting in a pretty boring race.

 

[JKgo]

They have to be careful how they model the AI. If they make them perfect where they never touch you, then odds are they'll be too timid to attempt a worthwhile pass. Also if they never touch you then that would mean they would never make contact with eachother resulting in a pretty boring race.

I get ya point @Earth - Altho' I must stress that since I always use a car with much lower pp than the race limit, AI tend to have far superior straight-line machines and at every corner it IS a ram-fest for me. I'm really getting annoyed by it.

 

[sk8er913]

I like the way NASCAR 2003 handled it. If you landed upside down, ran out of gas, or for any reason couldnt move anymore, your car would teleport to pitlane. Then a timer would appear to simulate the amount of time a tow truck would take to bring you back. If you broke down 200 yards from pitlane the timer would last around 30 seconds. If you broke down 2 miles from pitlane, the timer would last 4 or 5 minutes. Once the timer expired the crew could begin working on your car.

But then you don't get to disrupt traffic?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes and no magic 50mph fuel assist lol. It would be awesome if a tow truck came and pulled you to the pit lane lol.

Pretty sure I read this is going to be a feature of PCars.

 

[Matej]

I would exclude damage from offline mode.

People who are serious in lap times and competition will never pay attention to damage on their car neither they will get a chance to see any damage as they will avoid collision anyway. Besides, construction of the events in GT is set mostly for quick competition where damage can't affect overall position. And it wouldn't make much sense unless AI competition can suffer in performance as well.

In online mode damage should be available but only on mechanical basis, much like it was in Gran Turismo 2. At that, acceleration and speed would suffer if a side where an engine is located engages in collision. That way people would get fair competition they want and PD wouldn't have to spend their precious time for damage modeling.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I would exclude damage from offline mode.

People who are serious in lap times and competition will never pay attention to damage on their car neither they will get a chance to see any damage as they will avoid collision anyway. Besides, construction of the events in GT is set mostly for quick competition where damage can't affect overall position. And it wouldn't make much sense unless AI competition can suffer in performance as well.

In online mode damage should be available but only on mechanical basis, much like it was in Gran Turismo 2. At that, acceleration and speed would suffer if a side where an engine is located engages in collision. That way people would get fair competition they want and PD wouldn't have to spend their precious time for damage modeling.

Why restrict it from any part of the game, including TT's, hot lapping etc? It's a matter of programming one single on/off toggle. Some people value the most realistic experience possible and for some that's real damage and having to spend time in the garage affecting repairs. If you don't want to use it, just turn it off, everyone wins.

 

[Matej]

Why restrict it from any part of the game, including TT's, hot lapping etc? It's a matter of programming one single on/off toggle. Some people value the most realistic experience possible and for some that's real damage and having to spend time in the garage affecting repairs. If you don't want to use it, just turn it off, everyone wins.

True, by adopting toggle mode everyone can adjust experience however they like.

However, it takes time to model damage physics and time is not something PD has. There are many other aspects people want and that would enhance experience better than realistic damage.

People who seek realistic driving experience do not look at Gran Turismo anyway because they know its policy aims for larger group of drivers so compromise by not including detailed damage is expected and widely accepted.